Trying to save 13 years of home movies

[bonald]

I am getting ready for an overseas move this summer, and I would really like to get all the tapes we shot of our kids as babies put onto DVD before everything gets shipped. I have figured out how to capture the footage on my computer. I am not interested in creating anything at this point beyond an archive of raw footage on DVDs, and I have a few questions.

(1) What is the best file type to save as? AVI? MPEG?

(2) If I burn AVI files or whatever onto DVDs, will the quality of those files be as good as the ones on my computer? The reason I ask is because I burnt a backup copy of a slide show I made for my husband last summer and then played it back on my computer, and it seemed jumpy. Am I doing something wrong?

(3) Additional information: I am using Pinnacle's Studio 8 for capturing my video and then burning my discs. I also have MyDVD, but I am not interested right now in making DVDs that are playable on a stand-alone player, so I'm not using that. Am I on the right track as far as my tools go?

Thanks!
Bonnie

[Video Dude]

Your best bet is to compress your video using DVD compliant MPEG-2. That way in the future if you want to make a DVD you do not have to re-encode. Re-encoding would really degrade the quality. For now just burn the MPEG-2 files without creating a full DVD.

A very good low cost MPEG-2 encoder is CCE Basic. If you want a free solution, there is a new MPEG-2 encoder called HC. Many people here at the forums say it is very comparable to CCE in quality.
HC: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=93211
CCE Basic: http://www.cinemacraft.com

You would use CCE or HC after you capture the video. Since your future goal is DVD, I would preserve the interlace and not deinterlace. There are very good capture guides here at Doom9 to walk you through the process. Just look in the guide section.


Also, Germany is PAL and your moving to the Blue Grass State which is NTSC. This may present some problems if your home videos are in PAL. The good news is that you could purchase PAL/NTSC dvd player in the US that can play both formats. In the old days you had to pay a pro to convert them or do the conversion process yourself.

[bonald]

Video Dude, thanks for your suggestions! I will look into the MPEG-2 encoders and also look for a guide for the overall process. Fortunately, one thing I won't have to worry about is the PAL/NTSC issue--I stayed NTSC the whole time we've been here.

[feedback]

I am not interested in creating anything at this point beyond an archive of raw footage on DVDs

What was your original type of video source? 8mm, Hi-8mm, DV etc.,...

Not that familiar with Pinnacle, however, if you want top quality and are not concerned about the number of DVD's you have to transport, I would suggest capturing at the highest bitrate allowed. I have a system that suggests that if you are capturing from a VHS source use 3 to 5 Mbs, DV use 5 to 7 Mbs etc... (I don't use it because the highest I can go is 7Mbs, others go higher).
However, your resulting DVD's that you finally decide to put together next year or the next, will never be better than your original capture rate.

You can always downsize the bitrate and quality of your DVD later, to suit your taste. But if you capture at a low rate and heaven forbid the originals were lost then you would be stuck with low quality copies.
Regards,:)

[tigerman8u]

"Trying to save 13 years of home movies "

With that much to capture and convert I would look at a capture card that captures mpeg 1/2 on the fly. This would save alot of time encoding all of your captures.

[jggimi]

And if you go that route, look for a card that does hardware MPEG-2 compression, rather than using drivers/software. You can search for discussions of a few of them (ADS, Canopus, etc) in the Capture Forum.

[Video Dude]

Since you are planning on putting the videos on DVD in the future, by far the easiest and less time consuming way would be to use a standalone dvd recorder. They seem to be getting cheaper in price each week. Just hook up your vcr or camcorder to it and you have a completed DVD after the tape plays back. Just be sure to get a NTSC unit since your tapes are NTSC.

This method might actually give you better quality depending on your capture card and how powerful your computer is. Many units have a built in TBC which would help out old tapes.

[MuttLover]

I just converted my VHS family tapes to DVD. I used the Haupauge WinTV PVR which has hardware compression. As an extra bonus it has a TV interface and DVR software. Capturing with this was just plain simple; the quality was fine. It captures to a MPEG stream that is DVD compatible. It came with a DVD authoring tool too. Easy and not too expensive.

[bonald]

I've been away for a few days working on getting my house ready to pack out. Here are some answers and questions.

Feedback asked what format my original source material is in. I have 8 mm tapes, digital 8 mm tapes, and a few old VHS tapes.

Tigerman8u and Jggimi recommended a capture card. I need to do some googling as I'm not really even sure what that is. I use a laptop computer, so anything would need to be able to connect through either firewire, USB, or my card slot.

Videodude suggested a stand-alone recorder. I'm kicking myself right now, because I had actually bought one a couple weeks ago and took it back because I was intimidated by the idea of having to later on figure out how to get to my editable files. In fact, it was googling to find the answer to THAT question that brought me to this website in the first place. I thought that just connecting my camera to my computer with the firewire and using my Pinnacle software would be easier, but I'm starting to think that none of this is easy.

Muttlover, I'll have to google and find out more about the PVR you used. I'm pretty much limited to whatever our local PX carries though. I think the DVD recorder I bought last month (and took back) was a JVC.

So should I just go back and re-buy the DVD recorder? Is there an easy way to go back in the future, open up the DVDs, and extract the MPEGs? I hate feeling stupid, and this whole thing is making me feel reallllllly stoopid. There's just so much to learn!

Thanks for all your help though. I do appreciate that a lot.

[neuron2]

I had a similar situation: 50 swimming videos on VHS. I just used my Panasonic DVD Recorder. It is easy to get the MPEG2 files off the DVDs using just DGMPGDec, because there is no CSS encryption.

[Video Dude]

Editing using DV (Capturing with computer, no dvd standalone):
Tapes (Camcorder) --> Fireward Card --> Pinnacle (Edit and save as DV file) --> MPEG-2 Encoder (CCE Basic, HC, or TMPGEnc) --> Burn files onto DVD
If you want your files to be playable on a dvd player wou will have to author a DVD and then burn.


Editing with DVD standalone:
If the dvd standalone records on dvd+r or dvd-r or rw (not dvd-ram) then you could copy the dvd files onto your computer. Then use a program called TMPGEnc DVD Author. This program can import DVD video, you specify the start and end points so you could edit stuff out. You can add chapters and nice menus. It's good because it does not re-encode your video.


DVD standalone would require less work and should be a lot easier.

[tigerman8u]

I had a similar situation: 50 swimming videos on VHS. I just used my Panasonic DVD Recorder. It is easy to get the MPEG2 files off the DVDs using just DGMPGDec, because there is no CSS encryption.

Does this dvd recorder have any built in filters? I've heard that some dvd recorders have built in filters you can use to help clean up the video.
Thanks
I saw this today. Does anybody know anything about it/who makes it?
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3610576&cat=105664&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A133276%3A62055%3A105664

[Video Dude]

I never heard of the brand "ilo".

But the remote control and back of the unit looks exactly like CyberHome. I wonder if the same manufacturer in China makes both brands.

Here are some reviews of the ilo DVDR05 from the VideoHelp.com site:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders.php?DVDnameid=1137&Search=Search&list=1#comments

[bonald]

Sigh . . . I should have kept the standalone recorder. I'm sure it's not on sale anymore, but when I go to the PX next, I'll check on what they have. Thanks!

[tigerman8u]

I never heard of the brand "ilo".

But the remote control and back of the unit looks exactly like CyberHome. I wonder if the same manufacturer in China makes both brands.

Here are some reviews of the ilo DVDR05 from the VideoHelp.com site:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders.php?DVDnameid=1137&Search=Search&list=1#comments

Thanks. Looks like the reviews aren't to good. Seems like the DVDR04 made by lite-on is much more liked.

[MuttLover]

Here's the link to the capture card I used (http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvr150.html) to convert my home video VHS to DVD. The software that comes with it is dandy and does all of the stuff I mentioned in my previous post.

Good luck!

[bonald]

I just stopped at the PX this afternoon to check out the DVR offerings. They have the JVC DRM10SUJ, which is what I bought and returned. When I bought it, it was $289 and now it's back to its $349 price. They also have a Pioneer DVR 310-S for $177. That one also has the firewire connection, which is important to me, and the price looks great. The reviews on Amazon looked good. Any advice?

Am I understanding correctly that I would just go ahead and burn my 8 mm tapes to DVD with this machine and then in the future use that TMPGenc software to open up those DVDs and do any editing I wanted to do before burning my finished DVDs?

[ammck55]

I've recently been assigned the task of archiving the family VHS library and setting it up so others can operate it. After looking at several MPEG2 hardware solutions, I came to the conclusion that it would be far easier to leave a setup in place after I take off (I'm on vacation, now) that would be as close to a one-click solution as I could get, and also require the least amount of phone tech support. :) Hey, I've got my hands full with performing tech support for ammck55...even with all the excellent help here at D9.

After much research, I settled on the Samsung DVD-VR300 Combo (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=DVD-VR300/XAA). Selling points were the VHS bay (no need to have a separate input deck for non-Macrovisioned material), the front DV input for my cam footage, the interactive instructions manual that you'll find on the page above, and the price. $229 USD's before tax. Plus the fact that I could drive up to Circuit City (only 65 miles one way) and lay my hands on it quickly.

The comments in the linked review on the "ilo" unit pretty much tell the tale. While looking at that exact same unit last Friday, a guy walked straight up to me and said under no circumstances would he suggest it. Aside from the media compatibility problems, he had had two of them break down on him in less than two months. Inferior workmanship, I'd assume.

Pioneer DVR-310S Review @ C/NET (http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/video_recorders/0,39037599,39074898p,00.htm?) This unit reviewed solidly, it would be a good choice, especially if you're restricted to what you have access to. You can always spend more, of course, but I don't see any need at the current time to spend much over $200-if that.
Am I understanding correctly that I would just go ahead and burn my 8 mm tapes to DVD with this machine and then in the future use that TMPGenc software to open up those DVDs and do any editing I wanted to do before burning my finished DVDs?Not exactly. That workflow gives an example of executing an MPEG2 hardware capture from a cam to your hard drive via a Firewire connection. Remember the part in Video Dude's suggested workflow where it says, "Edit and save as DV file? If you save to native DV at this point before sending your file to your authoring app and then shooting it to the burner, you'll always have a copy to easily pull up and re-work when your editing skills increase. The biggest concern here will be storage space; native DV-AVI is an uncompressed file and will require a huge amount of hddrive space. Video Dude can give you better input on this, he's got a much better handle on editing and authoring than do I.

If you're weak on editing and authoring right now, the DVD recorder is an excellent option. Jump in, establish a workflow with which you can get some product (and joy), then, once you get some moves down, you'll "own" them and can build as you study and understand the real estate of the conversion world a little better. Good luck!

ammck55

[Video Dude]

Am I understanding correctly that I would just go ahead and burn my 8 mm tapes to DVD with this machine and then in the future use that TMPGenc software to open up those DVDs and do any editing I wanted to do before burning my finished DVDs?Yes, if your definition of editing is cutting stuff out or joining clips. With this method you can't add transitions or overlay text on your video. The software is called TMPGEnc DVD Author. When you open the program, select Create New Project, and then you will see a button that says "Add DVD Video". This will let you import and edit (cut or join) an already made dvd(s) and make a brand new dvd.

Step 1:
Camcorder --> DVD Standalone --> Finished DVD

Step 2:
Finished DVD --> Copy to Hard Drive on Computer --> TMPGEnc --> Finished Edited DVD


TMPGEnc DVD Author is a commercial program, but they offer a free 30 day, 100% working, no limitation, trial version.
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/download/tda16.html
This program will not re-encode your video, so you preserve full quality.


ammck55 posted a good link to a review. It looks like a good recorder for that price.

Some dvd standalones even have some limited editing features built in.

[video_magic]

Hi Bonald, I am going though very similar circumstances to your self right now, I have various tapes that I am looking to back-up for the long term, and I am not decided on whether DVD (Mpeg-2) or the newer Mpeg-4 - which there is also standalone-player support for, is the way to go!
Of course visual Quality and preservation of detail is the priority.
If you do go for authoring DVDs at some point, several people have recomended the authoring program DVD Styler - http://dvdstyler.sourceforge.net/

For encoding to mpeg-2 check out this forum http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=62

I will be following this thread and appreciate the advice of these other more experienced posters

[bongoman31]

I've got this same issue; saving a bunch of 8mm, Hi8, and Dig.8 to DVD. The easy way, using a DVD recorder sounds great to me, so I bought one (Magnavox, 660?) last night. First one I tried was regular 8mm, played through a Sony Dig.8 camcorder, sent to recorder by 1394 firewire. It seemd to record fine, but on playback, started good, but soon was choppy, like a bad DSS satelite picture when it's storming. So, I switched media type, (both were DVD+R) but made sure to use a high quality one on 2nd try- same thing. Well, I said, maybe regular 8mm doesn't translate through a firewire real well, so I was going to give it another try through analog connections. Then I got an error from the DVD recorder that my blank disc was full. I'm going to look at the owner's manual tonight, and see what that's about. Does anyone know of any issues with analog video going through firewire?
Thanks

[Mug Funky]

firewire (at least out of a D8 camera) will be a DV stream. whether the source is analog or digital, or shot live through the camera, it makes no difference to anything recieving a DV stream (you recorder is receiving this). so that's probably not the problem.

you could try capturing the DV directly on your computer, but the files for this are quite large (half an hour is about 6 gigs) and it'll require encoding to mpeg-2 anyway.

if both +R and -R give the same results on the recorder, perhaps the recorder is bad. the errors you're seeing are like moving blocks of the picture? kinda chunky, jerky and with weird coloured squares? if this is the case then it's definitely a media problem (unless the mpeg-2 encoder choked, but i doubt that), so perhaps your player is b0rk. usually if -R doesn't work +R solves it, at least with decent media (verbatim, TDK are pretty good).

[bongoman31]

Thanks for the reply... I messed around more with it last night; and got it to record good using regular RCA connection. But, you're right, I've had no problem using firewire w/ laptop-camcorder, and 8mm/Hi8. The recorder is real quirky, I have to fiddle with it, and jog commands to get it to work. I think I've got a lemon and will return it for exchange.
Thanks

[bonald]

I started this thread 2 years ago when I had 13 years worth of video to put on disc. I now have 15 years worth and am ashamed to say I haven't gotten started. Sigh . . .

I'm just wondering if the advice in this thread is still good, or if there is anything I should keep in mind with 2 years of technological advances?

Many thanks--
Bonnie