x264 deinterlacer

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Hi everybody.To creators of H.264 codec: When will be available the deinterlace option in WFW codec,meny of my DVD films are interlaced.

Another question: Have you ever planed to include a denoise option in WFW codec,maybe in versions beyond rev. 255.

[berrinam]

Both interlacing and denoising should be done through external filters, because this means more choice, quality and speed. Using an Avisynth filter is probably the best way to go about doing this. See the Avisynth website (http://www.avisynth.org/) or the Avisynth forum (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=33)

Interlaced encoding is something which is a property of the codec, but the x264 devs say that it hasn't been done yet because it is a lot of work to handle all the different possibilities of adaptive interlacing.

Cheers,

Berrinam

[Mug Funky]

i know that several of the x264 devs are philosophically opposed to interlacing (can't blame them really... it's a PITA in most cases). however, interlace is present on the majority of DVDs out there - unless you're only interested in PAL hollywood movies, pretty much everything you get is going to be either 3:2 pulldowned (progressive masquerading as interlaced), shot on video (natively interlaced) or standards-converted (this is done on a per-field basis, hence the output is interlaced).

the best option is to use an encoder that supports interlaced pictures, then use a playback filter to deinterlace when you play the file. this is th most efficient method, and this way you lose neither vertical resolution nor motion detail like you would with a deinterlace.

however, x264 is a bloody good codec, so depending on the stuff you're encoding, you may still want to deinterlace. in this case, use avisynth to do it as nicely as possible.

[edit]

btw, i think i should put this on my sig because i say it all the time: Interlacing is NOT an "artefact". it shouldn't be removed unless you have a specific, all-overriding reason to (like you're transferring a video sequence to 35mm film for playback in cinemas). otherwise it's just going to leave you lacking detail and with annoying jerky motion.

[berrinam]

the best option is to use an encoder that supports interlaced pictures, then use a playback filter to deinterlace when you play the file.
This is assuming you are using a processor fast enough to decode a complex codec like AVC and still handle deinterlacing. Anyway, as you said, in PAL land, we don't have these problems.

[akupenguin]

Native interlacing ("video") is an obsolete, but unfortunately still common, form of analogue compression. And like all lossy compression formats, converting it to another format loses even more quality.
Combing (3:2 pulldown or other standards conversion) is an artifact. It's usually mostly reversible, and undoing it maximizes both quality and compression.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Ok,thank you boys.But,nobody answered me about implementing a denoise filter into future revisions of freeware H.264 codec.From some reason my rev. 245E won't work in VirtualDubMod 1.5.4.1,I assume that I must do some resize of the output video.

Why the H.264 codec must work with a multiplies of 16,and not at the multiplies of 4 or 8.So,when I compressing DVD movie in H.264 format in XMPEG 5.03 program,codec always insist to be a multiplies of 16(etc. 720x576,704x400...) My opinion is that this is a serious bug of H.264 codec,because I never can't cut all the black edges from DVD movie(except in the very rare cases) :confused:

[Sharktooth]

x264...that's x264...
h.264 is the standard behind x264 and other codecs (nerodigital avc, mpegable avc etc.).
regarding denoising i think it will never implemented coz filtering should not depend on the codec.
if you want filters you can use avisynth or the embedded filters in mencoder.

[akupenguin]

nobody answered me about implementing a denoise filter into future revisions of freeware H.264 codec.
Denoise is just like deinterlace: it's not related to an individual codec, so it's best done in Avisynth.
Now, H.264 is slightly special in this regard, because one might argue that parametric film grain does deserve a builtin filter. But I certainly won't include a denoiser before I include parametric grain, and that's not planned any time soon. Even then, I might implement it as a call to Avisynth.

Why the H.264 codec must work with a multiplies of 16:search:

when will finaly arive a final official version of the h.264 codec, 1.0 No open source program is ever final. Are you asking me to stop improving it or something?

[Manao]

Kostarum Rex Persia : why implement a denoiser / a deinterlacer inside x264 when you can already use the denoisers provided by virtual dub ( if you use the vfw encoder ), avisynth (if you use x264.exe on windows ) or mencoder ( if you're a linux guy ). A codec doesn't have to be a complete encoding solution, it's only a part of the processing chain.

Next, the resolution. The h264 norm ( as Sharktooth said, x264 merely implements a norm, you've got to make the distinction between both ) allows resolution to be multiple of 2 ( perhaps even 1, though since the chroma is subsampled, that would be kind of weird ). However, x264 imposes resolution to be multiple of 16 ( because the base unit of the codec is the macroblock, which is a square of 16x16 pixels, so it makes the work easier for the developpers ). That restriction might disappear, but for the moment, you've got to do with it. Anyway, you can always resize to meet the resolution requirement, or crop into the movie ( loosing one or two rows of pixels isn't that big a deal imho ).

Mug Funky :

Interlacing is NOT an "artefact". it shouldn't be removed unless you have a specific, all-overriding reason toWell, it should be removed as soon as you plan to view the movie mainly on a computer screen. That isn't that much specific, and it is imho 'all-overriding'.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

akupenguin,I simply asked you when the 1.0 version will arive,because I am a little curios about that,nothing more.And,no,nobody wants to x264 stop improving,not at all.

About denoise,well,I tried several other h.264 codec,like a moonlight,videosoft h.264 codec main 2.1 and nero digital.All three,except Nero Digital,have a denoise/deinterlace option included in the encoder.For me,it's a lot more easy to work with denoise/deinterlace when it's included in encoder,because it's a simplier to do,nothing more or less.I say that developers of x264 codec in the official 1.0 version must include al least some good denoiser,for people who capturing from bad audio TV signal.And,ofcourse,in that way x264 codec will much gain in popularity,especially for ordinary people.

I afraid that x264,at the moment,has less perfomanse on bitrates from 300-400 kbit/s than Nero Digital codec in Nero Recode 2.2.6 version.Yet,x264 is a lot more quicker than Nero,thanks God for that.

[berrinam]

All three,except Nero Digital,have a denoise/deinterlace option included in the encoder.
What you are talking about is an integrated solution. Denoising is still not part of the codec, but part of one application which handles all ripping chain, very much like (Auto) Gordian Knot. Obviously frontends are popular to some inexperienced people, but mostly they give you less control and quality.

Anyway, Gordian Knot already supports x264 encoding, and you can handle all the deinterlacing and denoising through there if you want a frontend. Other, newer frontends are constantly being written, like AutoAC (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90732.) and MeGUI (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=87567).

Yet,x264 is a lot more quicker than Nero,thanks God for that.
As you should have read in the Nero HP Beta Test thread, Nero can be sped up by decreasing settings, and its speed is comparable to x264s

[Leak]

This is assuming you are using a processor fast enough to decode a complex codec like AVC and still handle deinterlacing. Anyway, as you said, in PAL land, we don't have these problems.

Oh yes, we still have these "problems" in PAL land - we don't have 3:2 pulldown, but there are still enough TV shows and sports broadcasts that are interlaced...

np: Transient - Warm Night Lullaby (Crossways Part 3)

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

There is more about it.If the H.264 codec wants to become a highly desirable H.264 codec,than develepers must in the future first official version include a options like a denoise,deinterlace,chroma motion and,finaly,a much better quality on 350-450 kbit/s.

I am afraid that Nero Digital is a betetr h.264 codec right now,and develepers of x264 codec know that.

[celtic_druid]

Doesn't matter if it becomes popular... as it isn't a commercial project, its success or failure does not depend on popularity.

XviD has no de-interlacer, denoising or anything like that, because its devs also delieve that such things have no place in a codec and it has still managed to be one of (if not the most) popular MPEG4 codecs.

[Sharktooth]

***MUST*** is a "big" word. However x264 sources are available, so if you want a deinterlacer or a denoiser you can always code it by yourself.
Pretending something from a free project made by ppl in their free time is not polite and it's not the right thing to do.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

***MUST*** is a "big" word. However x264 sources are available, so if you want a deinterlacer or a denoiser you can always code it by yourself.
Pretending something from a free project made by ppl in their free time is not polite and it's not the right thing to do.


Ok,here is my optinon.Most people don't have enough money to buy comercial versions of h.264 codecs,like a Moonlight,Mainconcept 1.0,or Videosoft h.264 2.3 consumer codec.So,meny people wants to have a free version of h.264 codec.

To x264 develepers: try to improve x264 codec as you can,I want to be better than Videosoft and Mainconcept in final 1.0 version(in the future).

Does anybody know when a 1.0 version will appear,I assume in the 2006.

[Sharktooth]

again...."WANT", "MUST" and "WHEN"...
At this point the most polite answer is: Do it by yourself.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

I don't understand you.

[celtic_druid]

I would have to say that the progress of x264 has been stellar. Yet you want them to do more? and you ask so nicely to.

If you don't want to fork out money on a commercial solution then you can hardly complain if you have to use AVISynth as a preprocessor for de-interlacing, de-noisng, etc.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Yeah,you probably right,celtic_druid.But,what about your builds of ffdshow.I heard that latest ffdshow build have some problems in decoding x264 video.Am I right?

[celtic_druid]

Too soon to tell I would say. The problem is that ffdshow is sometimes a step or two behind x264, however generally libavcodec should at least be able to decode everything that x264 can spit out.

[pogo stick]

I don't understand you.
The point is that you should see x264 not as commercial product, but as development project. Under this light "1.0" - is just a number. Download any version rename it to 1.0 and it will become final for you, if that's what you want. And, as I see it, most of open source developers have different goal than to bring final product to consumer. We are lucky to be able to use its outcome. Akupenguin have done so much and deserves much more then to hear feature requests is such demanding tone. From his posting history you can see how much time he spends in helping and patiently answering questions.

[Blue_MiSfit]

@Kostarum Rex Persia:

I think you are misunderstanding how things work with open source development. See, it's not like anyone has to do anything! Making suggestions is allright, but asking "when will we see ..." etc is sort of pointless because open source isn't really on any sort of schedule. It's sort of impolite to ask those questions.

Don't take this post the wrong way, I dont mean to attack you or anything, you just seemed confused regarding why people are responding the way they are.

Hope that helps :)

-MiSfit

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

@Kostarum Rex Persia:

I think you are misunderstanding how things work with open source development. See, it's not like anyone has to do anything! Making suggestions is allright, but asking "when will we see ..." etc is sort of pointless because open source isn't really on any sort of schedule. It's sort of impolite to ask those questions.

Don't take this post the wrong way, I dont mean to attack you or anything, you just seemed confused regarding why people are responding the way they are.

Hope that helps :)

-MiSfit

Ok,I understand that.I appologize if I offend someone.