dual layer dvd9 rite

[ancient23]

:confused:

Hi
Which software writes to dual layer discs
i have recordnowmax v4.5 doesnt appear to
work
regards

ps
is there a highly rrecccommended software that does this
:rolleyes:

[MasterSource]

hi there,

the latest version of nero 6 will happily write to dual layer discs, as will the king of DVD programs - DVD decrypter

no doubt there are many others, but ive found these two work flawlessly

[Zyphon]

Also ImgToolBurn will burn to a DVD9 and this works flawless for me and is very easy to use.

[ancient23]

Many thanx guys

appreciate the help

:D

[Encoder Master]

But you shouldn't Author with NERO because it's very incompatible. Use for this DVDLab or TMPGEnc DVD Author and create an image and this you can burn with Nero but I use for this DVD Decrypter with verifiing option.

[belunt]

I was also wondering what program to use to burn double layer DVDs, I'm doing alot of editing and transfering from VHS and pictures to DVD. I'm currently using Pinnacle Studio V9 does anyone know if there is a way to burn double layers with this program or create the video and then burn (double layer) with a seperate program or is there any like program that will do double layer and still has the same capabilities ie: transitions, adding music, menus, titles? And what is a good Double Layer burning burner, what should I look for; budget is not a major concern.

[ancient23]

HiGuyz STILL getting coastrs

decrypter how do you crete this dvd mds file
i have a 6gb dvds (vobs) file covering my children growing up - used pinnacle studio and tmpegenc dvd auhor
i dont want to split it over 2 dvds - in itslf at this size it is a canny little movie.
reading th forums - or am i wrong - it is best for dual layr to get this in dvd iso form - i assume to get over the 2 layer swtch point

i tried nero but glitched at layer change over using the basic 6gb files = coastr
is there someway in nero you can make dvd friendly iso
read the manual = useless

or do i invest in proggy like magiciso to form user friendly dvd iso

where am i going rong - any ideas

rgards
:devil:

[CWR03]

Others have said Nero 7 supports DL burning and creates the necessary layer break automatically. I have neither Nero 7 nor have tried DL, so I can't confirm this. DVD Decrypter (or ImgBurn) doesn't create the layer break without the .MDS file, which can only be created when decrypting a DVD.

You might consider DVD Shrink - create an ISO file with Nero which you can load into Shrink and fit to a single-layer with minimal quality loss.

P. S. I don't know if it was a mistake or not, but it's not necessary (and it's against the forum rules) to create a new thread to continue a problem - you can still delete the other one.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ImgBurn does create the layer break IF it's possible - and doesn't already exist. (You're right to say DVD Decrypter doesn't though)

It won't edit the filesystem, that's why I said 'IF' above ;)
The filesystem / layout of the files must already be such that a cell starts on an ECC boundary.

[setarip_old]

i tried nero but glitched at layer change over using the basic 6gb files = coastr
I have had 100% success using NERO v.6.6.xx to burn double layered (Verbatim DL +R) discs from hard drive DVD file "packages" (>IFOs, .BUPs, .VOBs - NOT .ISOs).

Make certain that the lower right corner of the NERO window is displaying something like 8500Mb and not something like 4500Mb - If necessary, click the down arrow next to this amount and select the proper number (THere are only two to choose from)

[ancient23]

thanx for the help

have managed to burn it and it works

have to go thro all th above methods to ee hich is easiest

i'm just wondering if maybe i need a diffeennt burner
cant seem to find recommended media for this model

rgars

[setarip_old]

have managed to burn it and it works
cant seem to find recommended media for this model

It's more important that, as you indicate, you've found media that actually burns properly ;>}

BTW I'm fairly certain that virtually every burner that's capable of burning DL DVD+R can successfully burn Verbatim DL DVD+Rs...

[frank]

First some terms that often mismatched:
Double Layer stands for DVD+R DL media. (DVD+RW Alliance, Philips, HP, Sony, Ricoh)
Dual Layer stands for DVD-R DL media. (DVD Forum, Pioneer, Panasonic)Only the latest drives can handle DVD-R DL.

We speak about DVD-Video content.
With PgcEdit and ImgBurn/DVDDecrypter you can properly burn Double Layer DVD = DVD+R DL. Nero 6 and Gear also do it, if you know what you do.

But on Dual Layer DVD-R media I have got until now only coasters!
ImgBurn/DVDDecrypter cannot handle the Layer Break position on DVD-R DL, size of L0 is unchanged. Nero 6.6.0.18 and CloneDVD 3.6.1.0 (DVD X Studios) have the same issues.
In every case the max. L0 size was unchanged, the content was written until the end of L0 and the rest on L1, regardless of what the LB setting says.
The dvd plays on PC, but that means not that it is compliant to the standard. On a standalone it plays with a break when the laser goes through the layers (in this case at the end of L0, outer radius).

Tested Media: Verbatim DVD-R DL (MKM01RD30),
DVD Identifier reports the Book Type as DVD-R part version 6 (= DVD-R DL)
Drive: Lite-On SHW-16H5S (brandnew)

Why that difference from handling +R DL media??

Don't use DVD-R DL for DVD-Video!

[LIGHTNING UK!]

AFAIK, there is no way to move the layer break position on DVD-R DL media. (Unless you use the 'layer jump' recording method - which I dont)

The only time you're ever supposed to 'shift' the middle area is when burning less than a single layers worth of data - which is of course totally pointless on a double layer disc!

[frank]

Ok, layer jump is useful on PTP media, good for incremental data backups. The 2 layers are written simultaneously and so we get an equal reflexion environment for the reading laser.
But timing is useless for video content!

Why does Nero not give us a warning before burning dvd-video to DVD-R DL?
They never learn...

ImgBurn
Maybe it's better to disable the Layer Break option for DVD-R (DL).
Same to Book Type, (on DVD-R DL = DVD-R part version 6) because unchangeable.

[r0lZ]

Well, it should be possible to burn DVD-R DLs with PgcEdit. Some successful tests have been made in Japan. But you MUST force the number of sectors per layer in the burn setup dialog (last field). The hardcoded value for DVD-R (2092896) should work fine. It forces the gap between VIDEO_TS.IFO or VIDEO_TS.VOB and VIDEO_TS.BUP to be large enough to fill completely L0 with data.

For +Rs, this field must be at 0, which means that the optimal layer break sector must be computed by PgcEdit.

Of course, as I've always said, it's better to use the good technology, +Rs: you have less data to burn, and the layer break is at the right place. The burned +R is therefore similar to a pressed DVD, and with a CD-ROM booktype, you have a good inssurance that it will be recognized by most standalone players. It is obviously not possible to have the same degree of compatibility with DVD-Rs, because of the limitaiton on the LB position, and the lack of booktypes.

Frank, have you tested with this "force layer break" value set? (Remember, this has been heavily discussed in the PgcEdit 0.6 beta thread, with, among others, jinjin_jp.)

[frank]

Yes, I remember the long discussion and know the workaround in PgcEdit.

What I've not seen at this time was a heavy difference between DVD+R and DVD-R.
During DVD-R production process the lead-in is pre-written (pre-embossed). That includes parts of the DVD that contain information about the disk: CSS, booktype, sizes... It can't be modified afterwards, because the laser of your DVD burner simply can't write to this part of the disk.
Therefore on DVD-R, DVD-R DL... you
- never can change the Book Type
- never can change the layer size info
- never can write CSS

During DVD+R production this space is untouched. Only the firmware prevents writing this space. However, there is no limit for writing book type field or layer sizes.

On DVD-R (DL) both the last sector LBA on L0 and the first sector LBA on L1 are fixed. Until last week I didn't realize that fact and thought there was something wrong in ImgBurn... :rolleyes: (and my profession is electronic engineering)

What PgcEdit does is a workaround by shifting the video content until the Layer Break matches the first sector on L1. But in every case the burner has to write the fully size of the two layers = 8.5 GB. :scared:
It seems that PgcEdit is the only program that solved thist crappy -R problem. The result is a fully recorded but compliant DVD!

I have tested Nero 6 and CloneDVD (DVD X Studios) that promise Dual Layer burning for DVD-video. But what they produce is a non-standard, linear recorded DVD. Without any information, or warning! :devil:

Here you can see results from a test on cdfreaks.com
LG GSA-4167B Super Multi DVD-Writer Review - DVD+R DL/-R DL Writing performanceStandalone DVD-Player compatibility: (http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/242/7)
We only have 3 standalone DVD-Players and 1 standalone DVD+R/W recorder available to test the DVD+R DL media (BookType: DVD-ROM) and the DVD-R DL media (BookType: DVD-R) with:

* Aiwa DVD Player XD-DV370
* Medion DVD/Div-X Player MD7457
* Red Star DVD-Player 230G
* Mustek R100A DVD+R/W Recorder

Compatibility results:
All DVD Standalone devices played the LG GSA-4167B burned DVD+R DL medias. But only one DVD Standalone devices would play the DVD-R DL media.I think the problem is not much realized because
- the most user play on PC - that works
- the media is very new

But on standalone this Dual Layer DVD won't work properly!!

[r0lZ]

It seems that PgcEdit is the only program that solved thist crappy -R problem. The result is a fully recorded but compliant DVD!:)

What software was used at cdfreaks.com to do the test?
[EDIT:] Stupid question. I've found the answer on the test page: Nero Burning ROM 6. Should have used PgcEdit! ;)

BTW, since you proved that the workaround used by PgcEdit is sufficient to successfully burn a DL-R, I think I will remove the "Force Layer Break" option, difficult to understand and to access, and replace it by a DL DVD+R/DVD-R selector in the main GUI.

[frank]

Yeah, but the user must set the right size of L0 for DVD-R DL.
I have found on my 4 Verbatims 2 different values!!

[r0lZ]

Right? That's incredible. I thought the layer size of the DL-Rs was constant! They are even more stupid that I thought.

So, I will leave the original option, but change it so that the value is ignored when burning a +R, and used when burning a -R, and add the +R/-R selector on the main page.

Could you give me the values you got? I may add them in the defaults dropdown list.

[frank]

8.5 GB minimum size is the constant on dual -R.
Only the +R specs have a standardized number of sectors.

The first L0 value was equal to that in PgcEdit, the other differed by some hundred sectors. Sorry I made it to garbage.

Better way is to read out the sector numbers as ImgBurn does.
Maybe LUK can write it to the registry.

As I said, the -R DL is NOT suitable.
-R what a pain!

Good night! :tired:

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Ok well after reading this and replying yesterday I went about adding support for Layer Jump Recording - rather than just DAO.

This would have solved the layer break issues on DVD-R DL media.

Trouble is, very few drives seem to support it and on top of that, as documentation isn't that wonderful, I'm having trouble with writing anything on the second layer. All I get is an 'Invalid Address For Write' message from my Pioneer 110. This is burning Verbatim MKM media, and at £4 a go, I'm not prepared to do too much messing around!

So if anyone knows anything about Layer Jump Recording, please tell me what on earth I'm supposed to do in order to get it to work!

I'd assumed one just needed to set the write parameters (Write Type 0x04 - Layer Jump Recording), then either shift the middle area (Send DVD Structure - 0x21), or specify a manual layer break (Send DVD Structure - 0x23). Then you'd just write consecutive LBA addresses (in 16 or 32 sector chunks) until the entire disc had been written. Sync Cache, Close track / disc / session and it would be finished!

Well that doesn't work, so now I'm open to suggestions!

[r0lZ]

Thanks for considering it, LUK!
I know nothing about Layer Jump Recording. Sorry.
The method I use is simply to increase the gaps between files so that L0 is completely filled with data. I suppose that with the Layer Jump method, there is less data to write to the DVD. Anyway, since my method works, and I don't want to support DL-Rs too much, I think I will not change it.
If you implement the Layer Jump method in ImgBurn, could you assure me that the current method will still work?

[frank]

:D I will do some investigation.

But I think the Layer Jump Record (LJR) method was developed for data backup on DVD-R DL (OTP) [edit]media, or for special dual DVD recorders. A method for "multisession" on dual layer dvd. Nero press info May 2005 (http://www.nero.com/enu/PR_2005_05_24.html)
Not recommended for DVD-Video standard. Every jump between the layers needs time, isn't it?

Maybe PCs will play it but I don't believe that standalones will do it.
Hardware players only can use udf 1.02 and the ifo pointers.[deleted]

[ron spencer]

i hope you don't change anything rolz!!! you're method works. if you do change anything please make it a separate menu option and leave what you have alone

[r0lZ]

Don't worry. If I change anything, it will stay compatible with the way it works now.

[ron spencer]

hey I am all for progress, but -r DL is a mess that is likely never going to pan out. I am all for adding it to PGCEdit, but only as a separate module so that +R DL, which works, is left by itself so no monkey business can happen.

this is, of course, just a suggestion

[r0lZ]

-R DL can be burned as well right now. All you have to do is to fill the last field in the burn setup dialog with the right value.
What I want to do is to add a DL +R/-R selector in the main dialog, so that this value is ignored when burning a +R, and used for a -R. This way, it will be easier to switch between medias, and the Number of Sectors in L0 value will not interfere anymore when burning a +R. (Currently, you have to be sure this value is 0.)
It's only a cosmetic change. Nothing will be changed in the engine.

[ron spencer]

ok i get it!!!

[LIGHTNING UK!]

The first zone in LJR media is supposed to be 100% compatible with normal DVD standards. As I'd only be using one zone/border, that's fine for me ;)
The fuji specs kinda tell you how you can use LJR to burn a disc that's basically the same as burning in DAO, only with the bonus of being able to change the layer break (or rather, 'shift' the middle area). LJR with only a single layer jump is pretty much identical (in functionality) to normal DVD+R DL burning. That's why I thought it would be worth my time to implement it :)

I actually found my BenQ 1640 also supports layer jump mode and my engine had no trouble burning the image I gave it. This leads to me believe that there is perhaps some issue with the Pioneer 110 1.37 firmware. I did have a long old play around with the 110 and nothing I did seemed to work - I'm sure it shouldn't be THAT difficult to get it working, which leads me to believe the problem lies with Pioneer even more.

r0lZ,

If you pad the first layer out so it always reaches L0 fixed middle area LBA, the program still uses that.

Basically I've done it so that if the layer break isn't equal to that LBA, the program knows Layer Jump Recording mode is required to accurately position the layer break.

If LJR mode is needed, it then checks to see if the drive supports LJR.
If LJR mode is supported, it enables LJR mode and shifts the middle area to the desired location so that the LB is in the correct place.

If LJR mode is not supported, is displays a message saying so, and that it's not possible to position the LB in DAO mode.

If LJR mode is not needed, it simply keeps using DAO mode.

[r0lZ]

OK, I understand. This means that, with a drive supporting LJR, the -R user will have the choice to create an ISO exactly like for a +R, or continue with the current method. Right?

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Erm... not a 'choice' exactly, well not in terms of 'Use LJR or DAO?' anyway. Seems pretty pointless to offer a choice of something that'll honor LB position against something that wont.
You can force disable LJR in the settings though.

So far as PgcEdit is concerned with passing LB to ImgBurn, it'll work exactly the same - so long as the LBA you pass for padded L0 is the same figure shown as 'L0 Data Zone Capacity:' in ImgBurns little info panel on the right. In such cases, the users wont be prompted for LJR support or lack of.

[r0lZ]

OK. It's exactly what I want! Thanks.

[ron spencer]

anyone know if ANY standalones play -r dl?

[frank]

Ok, the drive must support LJR. And the media?

AFAIK LJR needs PTP pre-formatted DVD-R DL media (addresses of L1 continue from the inner radius). OTP makes no sense for LJR.[deleted]
It wasn't easy to get the specs... 1000 pages, huhhh!
Right, DVD-R Dual Layer specs define only OTP disks.
An address remapping mechanism was developed for Layer Jump recording to adapt UDF file system and ISO 9660 file system.
The player drive MUST support the reading of remapping information.
At the time there are no PTP media available, isn't it?
The Verbatim Dual Layer DVD-R (MKM01RD30) I tested is OTP formatted!

Maybe that's the reason why your tests are failed, LIGHTNING UK![deleted]

[LIGHTNING UK!]

No, just the drive + software need to support it.

LJR is for OTP media, there is no spec for a double layer PTP discs.

In what way does OTP make no sense for LJR? It's meant for allowing data to be equally spaced out over both layers - giving best read compatibility.

Read the FUJI specs if you're not 100% on where/how LJR is used. All their diagrams clearly show it to work in OTP style.

[eriksen76]

I've had same problems with DVD+R DL burning as mentioned before in this thread. When I have a folder with VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders I've tried using imgtool to create an image and then I burned it with Dvddecrypter.

In all but one dvd players I tried it simply freezed at the layer break. The original layer break in the files in the VIDEO_TS had been removed with ifoedit. But I though a new one was created.

Then I started burning with a program called COPY2DVD and that creates a layerbreak (acording to log) and plays flawlessly everytime. I'm not able to see the layerbreak on the burned disc with ifoedit though. (There isn't any according to that program)

Is there a difference between Dvddecrypter and IMGBURN when it comes to creating a "working layer break"??

And will I be able to burn my VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders using the latest build of IMGTOOLCLASSIC 0.91.6 which supports IMGBURN??

What is it with the new feature with IMGBURN that I can select a layer break??

And finally, what is "Layer Jump Recording". Should I make a special setting? I can see a option under "Display warnings"

Many question, hopefully you guys are able to answer them

Thanx

/Eriksen76

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ImgTool Classic makes no attempt to position a cell on an ECC boundary. That's why double layer discs made with that won't work.

You need to use PgcEdit.

Yes, ImgBurn is much better with layerbreaks. So long as the image has been made properly (as noted above), it will find the correct LBA for the LB by parsing the IFO files.

Layer Jump isn't 100% yet, just ignore it for now.

[eriksen76]

ImgTool Classic makes no attempt to position a cell on an ECC boundary. That's why double layer discs made with that won't work.

You need to use PgcEdit.

Yes, ImgBurn is much better with layerbreaks. So long as the image has been made properly (as noted above), it will find the correct LBA for the LB by parsing the IFO files.

Layer Jump isn't 100% yet, just ignore it for now.

That makes sense, but how do I then make a working image with PgcEdit then which I can burn with IMGBUN?

And what is it with the new feature with IMGBURN that I can select a layer break??

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

As far as I know, ImgTool Classic do not set the layer break for you. And the layer break must be correctly positionned in the middle of the ISO for ImgBurn (or DVD Decrypter.) Though you may have per chance a cell exactly at the right place for the layer break, you cannot rely on this chance! So, you have to use PgcEdit to pre-process the IFOs, and create the right ISO for ImgBurn. (When the IFOs are saved by the burn function, you may use ImgTool classic to create the ISO, but PgcEdit can do it more easily.)
If you have used only ImgTool/ImgBurn in your first try, it is normal that it doesn't work.

Don' t worry about Layer Jump Recording. This technique is not yet implemented in ImgBurn, and concerns DL DVD-Rs, not +Rs.

[EDIT:] Sorry, LUK! I haven't seen your reply.

[r0lZ]

how do I then make a working image with PgcEdit then which I can burn with IMGBUN?
Just open the DVD in PgcEdit, and click on the Burn icon. Then, follow the instructions. You will be prompted to select the layer break cell.
See the guide here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm).

[eriksen76]

Just open the DVD in PgcEdit, and click on the Burn icon. Then, follow the instructions. You will be prompted to select the layer break cell.
See the guide here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm).

Thanx for the tip, the guide just tells me to use "ImgTool Classic version 0.91.5". Why is this needed. According to Lightning UK Dual Layer burning should not be possible using that program.

I thought I should just create an image with Pgcedit and burn with IMGBURN for a working DL backup??

Other thing, the guide tells me to enable the "When saving leave atleast 32K.......". Is that nessesary?

Sorry for being such a newbie, but I'm learning.

/Eriksen76

[LIGHTNING UK!]

It uses mkisofs from the ImgTool Classic package, that's all.

[r0lZ]

Yes, it's right. ImgTool Classic is not really needed, but you must install it on your computer, because PgcEdit uses MkISOFS.exe, distribued with ImgTool Classic, to generate the ISO.

(BTW, this is why you can also create and burn the ISO with ImgTool: it uses exactly the same method. But you still have to modify the IFO files so that the ISO will be correctly created, and for that step, you need PgcEdit. And, as I said, it's easier to use PgcEdit alone, because it will take care of everything for you: exclude the backup files, if any, from the compilation, create VIDEO_TS if it doesn't exists, launch MkISOFS and ImgBurn when needed, and even add 32KB gaps between IFO and BUP files, if you want so.)

[eriksen76]

Thanx for explaining. "Will the 32KB gaps between IFO and BUP files" be needed?

And one last thing. The guide told me something about that when I've set the layer break value I have to remember the value and insert it to IMGBURN before burning the DL. Is this also nessesary making the hole thing work?

And I guess its the path to IMGBURN and not Dvddecr. that I have to set, right?

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

No, it's not really needed, but it's highly recommended: your DVD will be more or less protected against scratches and defects.
It's an option because some bad burning programs (notably Nero) are not able to deal with the 32K gaps. But with the excellent MkISOFS/ImgBurn combo, you may safely use this option.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Just to make things clear to eriksen76, PgcEdit does special stuff to pad the image to ensure a cell starts on an ECC boundary on the disc. That's a requirement for nice DL burns.

ImgTool Classic doesn't do that - so in that sense, you CANT use it to create and burn the ISO. (It's perfectly fine for single layer discs though!)

32kb gaps means nothing if there is no cell on an ecc boundary!

The LB is passed to ImgBurn via CLI now so there is no need to remember anything. This is a left over from DVD Dec. days.

ImgBurn can also find the LB PgcEdit intended to be used by parsing the IFO files, should you decided to not let PgcEdit initiate the burn

[r0lZ]

And I guess its the path to IMGBURN and not Dvddecr. that I have to set, right?
Yes, in the burn setup, you have to set the path to ImgBurn and MkISOFS (and optionally Daemon Tools.)
You can still use DVD Decrypter instead of ImgBurn to burn the ISO, but it is highly recommended to use ImgBurn.

[r0lZ]

The LB is passed to ImgBurn via CLI now so there is no need to remember anything. This is a left over from DVD Dec. days.That's right, too. I have just removed this old stuff when PgcEdit detects that ImgBurn is used. The new version 0.6.2 is ready, and will be available very soon, probably tomorrow.

[eriksen76]

Thanx for all you help. One tiny thing left.

If I want to use Pgcedit to create the iso, but I just want the .iso on Hd waiting to burn another day maby.

In that case, can just follow the guide and making the .iso with Pgcedit and burn the .iso with IMGBURN like I normally do with Dvddec.. "Iso write options".

Doing it that way, will IMGBURN do the layer break thing correctly or is there a special setting I need to be aware of??

Thanx again for your help

/Eriksen76

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Read the last line of post 47 ;)

[eriksen76]

Read the last line of post 47 ;)

Ups! my bad :o

So that is one of the improvements with IMGBURN compared with Dvddec. when it comes to burning DVD+R DL??

/Eriksen76

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Yes, that's one of the improvements :)

[Ajbolit]

Had tried multiple programs and so far end up with 6 DL coasters ((( Nero or ImgBurn would write them succesfully, but non of the discs would play in neither my PC or DVD player (philips 642). While trying to use the guide for PcgEdit got a following msg:
"Warning: There are 4 discrepancies in some VMGM/VTSI_MAT tables. Do you want to run the "Fix number of streams" macro to fix them?"

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Did you get ImgBurn to 'Verify' after it had burnt this disc?

If you did and it completed successfully, there must be an issue with your original image - at least when playing in the PC.

As for the standalone, it could just be that it doesn't support DL media - or you may need to configure bitsetting to make it look like a DVDROM disc.

[eriksen76]

Had tried multiple programs and so far end up with 6 DL coasters ((( Nero or ImgBurn would write them succesfully, but non of the discs would play in neither my PC or DVD player (philips 642). While trying to use the guide for PcgEdit got a following msg:
"Warning: There are 4 discrepancies in some VMGM/VTSI_MAT tables. Do you want to run the "Fix number of streams" macro to fix them?"

PGCEDIT also ask me this when "importing" the dvd files:

"Warning: There are 4 discrepancies in some VMGM/VTSI_MAT tables. Do you want to run the "Fix number of streams" macro to fix them?"

I always say no, and so far it works with no problems. Don't really think that its something to draw much attention to, as it asks me the question even on "untouched files" all the time.

Lightning UK, would be the one with the correct answer to this

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

This warning is issued when there are streams defined in some tables, but not used by any PGC, or (more serious) vice-versa. It has nothing to do with the burning or the format of the ISO.
BTW, you can turn this warning off with the menu Options -> Input/Output -> Automatically launch "Fix Number of Strings in VMGM/VTSI_MAT"?

[eriksen76]

Thanx for the answer, just a small one left

Do I use the same guide when burning DVD-R DL medias as when burning DVD+R DL medias.

Or do I have to make other settings?

So far I have only burned + medias, all successful

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

This guide (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/Burning%20With%20PgcEdit.htm) is a general guide, with explanation on how and why to use the 32K gaps method.
This one (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm) is specific to DL madia.
Both are made by blutach. Thanks again, blu!

For DL-Rs (not DL+Rs!), be sure to put the right value in the "DL DVD-R Layer 0 data zone capacity" field in the burn setup, and to specify the right DL media type in the main window, or you will burn a coaster!

[eriksen76]

This guide (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/Burning%20With%20PgcEdit.htm) is a general guide, with explanation on how and why to use the 32K gaps method.
This one (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm) is specific to DL madia.
Both are made by blutach. Thanks again, blu!

For DL-Rs (not DL+Rs!), be sure to put the right value in the "DL DVD-R Layer 0 data zone capacity" field in the burn setup, and to specify the right DL media type in the main window, or you will burn a coaster!

Thx, where is it that I find option to specify which media type I want to use?
(main window, you wrote?)

Maby you could provide me with a screenshot.

Thanx

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

I mean in the main burn dialog. I've added this button in v0.6.2, near the burn speed. In 0.6.3 beta, it is below the volume label field.

[eriksen76]

I mean in the main burn dialog. I've added this button in v0.6.2, near the burn speed. In 0.6.3 beta, it is below the volume label field.

Found it, thanx

By the way the new: Classic_0.91.7 is out. Do you encourage me to upgrade from Classic_0.91.6 to that version??

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

I've just downloaded it. Not tried it yet. But since mkisofs kept the same syntax, it should be OK to use the new version.

[eriksen76]

I guess I'll upgrade then :)

Old version was: 2.01.01a03X (i686-pc-cygwin)
New version is : mkisofs 2.01 X (i686-pc-cygwin

Just burned another DVD+R DL with success. No coasters so far.

Just want to thank you for all your help

Have a nice weekend

/Eriksen76

[mazafaka]

My problem step by step:
1. DVD DL rip with DVDdecrypter 3.5.5.0
2. Some changes in IFO with PgcEdit 0.6.0
3. Compiling ISO with PgcEdit & mkisofs 2.01
4. Burning with DVDdecrypter
Result: whole DVD plays fine on standalone but on PC 2nd layer unreadable (physically readable but files contain wrong data).
Next duplication from this disk impossible.
Have I discovered unknown copy protection mechanism???

When I burn DVD compilation with extra files/folders with Copy2DVD 3.1.1.135 result is the same

[setarip_old]

Have I discovered unknown copy protection mechanism???I doubt that very much, since you also say:Result: whole DVD plays fine on standalone

[blutach]

@mazafaka

What media are you using? Get real Verbatims and I think you'll be OK. Also, you can update PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) to 0.6.2

Regards

[mazafaka]

I doubt that very much, since you also say:

I can send you this disk and you'll never make a copy from it.
i've tryed all programs and operating systems.
@mazafaka

What media are you using? Get real Verbatims and I think you'll be OK. Also, you can update PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) to 0.6.2

Disc Regions are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Media code/Manufacturer ID MKM 001
Media Product Revision 00h
Format Capacity 7.89GB(8.47GB)
Book DVD-ROM
Media Type DVD+R DL
Data area starting sector 30000h
Data area end sector 3F177Fh
Layer 0 end sector 22D7FFh
Linear Density 0.293um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 2
Layer Track Path direction (OTP) Opposite track path

I think it's UDF & ISO mismatches.

May be r0lZ or LIGHTNING UK! hame some ideas what could it be?

[r0lZ]

Could you post the DVD Decrypter log here?

Which version of mkisofs are you using when you burn? (You can check it in the burn setup dialog.)

Also, you can verify if there are UDF/ISO mismatches with IsoBuster (http://www.isobuster.com/).

[mazafaka]

unfortunately, log wasn't saved. But burprocess was ok. layerbreak setting too.
mkisofs 2.01x (i686-pc-cygwin)
ISO & UDF are identical

common rule in my case: adding extra files/folder leads to unreadable 2nd layer. if only ifo/bup/vob all ok.

recorder - plextor 740

[r0lZ]

common rule in my case: adding extra files/folder leads to unreadable 2nd layer. if only ifo/bup/vob all ok.
Humm! Good to know. I haven't tested a DL burn with DVD-ROM files. However, with single layer DVDs, it works.

Can you post a screenshot of IsoBuster with the start and end sectors of the files?

[mazafaka]

just burnt music video with PC content. and...successful. so strange :) but these files are from original dvd. I mean no files were added from my pc by me.

see personal message for files

another strange thing - one of my DL disks was successfully read under windows millenium (without udf reader installed)

now I understand nothin in DL recording :-)))

[[Tobi]]

After a long time, I want to begin a test with DL DVD-R again.
The functional way with PgcEdit and ImgBurn is clear for me.
What confuses me, is the message of ImgBurn.


Layer Jump Recording Disabled!
Cannot set the layer break position when burning DVD-R DL media in DAO mode.


I have read the whole thread, concerning Jump Layer Recording and do not understand it yet completely.
Can I ignore the warning really and continue?
I have a player, the DVD-R DL should can and now I want to know it.

Help would be nice.

Thanks

[r0lZ]

IMO, if the number of sectors in L0 is correctly configured in PgcEdit, and you have selected the DL DVD-R media type, it should work.
PgcEdit doesn't use the Layer Jump technique to set the layer break. So, currently, a big gap will be added at the beginning of L0 (between VIDEO_TS.IFO or VOB and VIDEO_TS.BUP) so that the first layer is completely filled with data.
The Layer Jump method may (perhaps?) be used to jump from L0 to L1 before the end of L0, but it's not needed when you burn an image made by PgcEdit. I'm not sure the Layer Jump method works well, and I have no intention to implement it, at least for now.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Layer Jump is disabled within ImgBurn. The user cannot change that.

It's part implemented but tests have shown the drives don't do what I tell them! Totally my fault, I am sure, but I don't have the means to find out how Layer Jump Recording is actually supposed to be used. So rather than waste peoples discs, I disabled it until I can fix it. You can ignore the error so long as you let PgcEdit do the padding (as mentioned in the post above).

Unlike Nero and alike, I don't have a direct channel to talk to people who make the drives / firmware!

[[Tobi]]

Many thanks for the detailed information. I will ignore the error and try it now.
If interest exists, I can inform later as the result is.

[ron spencer]

informative posts all

[[Tobi]]

Here the result for the DVD-R DL.

If is a little bit wrong, please corrects me and says what is wrong. :)

Media Information

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R-DL:MKM 01RD30 ]
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R DL] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Mitsubishi Kagaku Media]
Manufacturer ID : [MKM 01RD30 ]
Blank Disc Capacity : [4,282,361,794 Sectors = 8,770.28 GB (8,167.96 GiB)]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

PgcEdit

Layer break is at absolute sector 2039600. (Offset in L0 is 7.)
Layer break cell:
2039593: VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (1:44:15) Title 1 Cell 17 (00:00:38.12), V/CID: 2/1

The pad was 53303 for file VIDEO_TS.VOB
Total translation table size: 0
Total rockridge attributes bytes: 0
Total directory bytes: 4248
Path table size(bytes): 42
Max brk space used 9000
4044583 extents written (7899 MB)

ISO created OK.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ImgBurn.log

I 17:35:59 ImgBurn Version 1.1.0.0 started!
I 17:35:59 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2)
I 17:35:59 Initialising SPTI...
I 17:35:59 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 17:35:59 Found 2 DVD-ROMs and 1 DVD±RW!
I 17:38:14 Operation Started!
I 17:38:14 Source File: G:\FERTIGE IMAGES\DUAL_LAYER_TEST.ISO
I 17:38:14 Source File Sectors: 4.044.583 (MODE1/2048)
I 17:38:14 Source File Size: 8.283.305.984 bytes
I 17:38:14 Source File Application Identifier: MKISOFS ISO 9660/HFS FILESYSTEM BUILDER & CDRECORD CD-R/DVD CREATOR (C) 1993 E.YOUNGDALE (C) 1997 J.PEARSON/J.SCHILLING
I 17:38:14 Source File Implementation Identifier: mkisofs
I 17:38:14 Destination Device: [1:1:0] BENQ DVD DD DW1640 BSOB (I:) (ATA)
I 17:38:14 Destination Media Type: DVD-R DL (Disc ID: MKM 01RD30) (Speeds: 4x)
I 17:38:14 Destination Media Sectors: 4.171.712
I 17:38:14 Write Mode: DVD
I 17:38:14 Write Type: DAO
I 17:38:14 Write Speed: 4x
I 17:38:14 Link Size: Auto
I 17:38:14 Test Mode: No
I 17:38:14 BURN-Proof: Enabled
I 17:38:15 User Specified L0 Data Zone Capacity: 2.039.600
W 17:40:14 Layer Jump Recording Disabled!
W 17:40:14 Cannot set the layer break position when burning DVD-R DL media in DAO mode.
I 17:40:14 Filling Buffer...
I 17:40:16 Writing LeadIn...
I 17:40:31 Writing Image...
I 17:40:31 Writing Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 2092895)
I 17:54:28 Writing Layer 1... (LBA: 2092896 - 4044582)
I 18:07:36 Synchronising Cache...
I 18:10:15 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:32:00
I 18:10:15 Average Write Rate: 4.977 KB/s (3.6x) - Maximum Write Rate: 5.579 KB/s (4.0x)



First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196.608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16.566.527
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2.289.503

Layer 0 Sectors: 2.092.896 ( 51,75% )
Layer 1 Sectors: 1.951.696 ( 48,25% )



If I calculate, the result is:

LBA of the VOB (VTS_01_1.VOB): 249985
Start sector of the Cell: 1842911

249985 + 1842911 = 2.092.896



The test in Panasonic is still pending.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Seeing as how 2.039.600 and 2.092.896 don't match, I'd say there is a problem somewhere?!

Over to r0lZ now for this one as he can explain his app a lot better than I can ;)

[r0lZ]

Tobi, are you sure you have correctly set 2092896 in the L0 value field in the burn setup?

[[Tobi]]

I have made screenshots (step by step).

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4760/imgburninformationsfensterdvdr.png (http://imageshack.us)


http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3720/burnsetupfrdvdrdl4dc.png (http://imageshack.us)


If the problem gets away...

cell sector in PgcEdit + pad for VIDEO_TS.VOB ?
2039593 + 53303 = 2092896

Say to me sometimes please what is wrong.

[r0lZ]

I don't know! What are the symptoms? There is no error message in the ImgBurn log, so I guess it should work.

Could you post also a screenshot of the layer-break cell selection dialog (with the right cell selected?) I am interested to see the values at the top of this screen.

[[Tobi]]

Here it is...

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2564/setzendeslayerbreaksdvdrdl6fg.png (http://imageshack.us)

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Well it all looks ok to me!

Must just be that PgcEdit is passing the 'Sectors in L0' value rather than the 'Real position of layer break on DL DVD-R' value.

[r0lZ]

That's right. I just found the bug. It is fixed now.

BTW, there is also another bug in the GUI only. The 'Real position of layer break on DL DVD-R' is too high by 1. It should be 2092896. It is that number that is now passed to ImgBurn when a -R is burned.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Oh right, I wasn't sure if that was displaying the value in terms of LBA or number of sectors. I know it can get confusing sometimes as I think I have both dotted around my program ;)

The value you're passing is the number of sectors in L0, but as LBA starts from 0, it's also what would then be the first LBA on the L1.

I'm sure the program would have moaned at that value anyway because it's not a multiple of 16 - so no harm would come to the poor (expensive) DVD-R DL disc! lol

[[Tobi]]

I'm sure the program would have moaned at that value anyway because it's not a multiple of 16 - so no harm would come to the poor (expensive) DVD-R DL disc! lol

Which program would have moaned?
Could you explain it?

By the way, the two euros were worth a test. I give to whole later one more chance.


Thanks

[r0lZ]

Tobi, if you want to test again with the same version of PgcEdit, I suggest you create the ISO, but don't launch ImgBurn from PgcEdit. Load the ISO in ImgBurn and either let the program decide where to put the LB, or set it manually to 2092896.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ImgBurn would have moaned if the user specified LB wasn't a multiple of 16.

[[Tobi]]

Tobi, if you want to test again with the same version of PgcEdit, I suggest you create the ISO, but don't launch ImgBurn from PgcEdit. Load the ISO in ImgBurn and either let the program decide where to put the LB, or set it manually to 2092896.

Thanks, I try it.

ImgBurn would have moaned if the user specified LB wasn't a multiple of 16.

A check for the LB (from PgcEdit) and the risk would be clearly minimized.

Is not probably possible? (friendly asking)

[r0lZ]

The LB sector passed to ImgBurn is always a multiple of 16.
It's only in the interface for DL DVD-R, that a wrong LB, incremented by 1, was displayed.
The main bug was that the LB computed for DVD+Rs was always passed, regardless of the state of the Media Type button. But, of course, it's also a multiple of 16.

[uroscar]

Is there any way to change the booktype on a DVD+R DL that you have already burned?

Thanks

[ron spencer]

no it is not possible to change it

[mazafaka]

A new question for r0lZ )
Why it is not possible to set layer break as on pressed DVD?

[lrosado]

I have a question if all I do is Rip with DVDDecrypter, remove the FBI warnings only, and then use IMGTool Classic to create the ISO, then burn with IMGBurn, will I run into the layer break problem? Do I have to go through PGCEdit and create a new layer break before burning? I have done this this way already and the layer break in the original IFO and the Backup IFO is in the same place. Or is this wrong? Havent tried this on my standalone yet.

[r0lZ]

Yes, you have to use PgcEdit.
It is not sufficient to clear the seamless flag on the layer break cell. The ISO must also be properly formatted, so that the layer break cell starts at the right place. ImgTool classic cannot do that.

[lrosado]

I always thought if you leave the disk alone you didnt need to worry about the layer break. Thats why I didnt think removing small FBI warnings would mess up the layer break. What about if I just do an ISO image without changing anything, would I still need to use PGCEdit?

[r0lZ]

No, in this case, you should be able to burn the ISO image directly. This is a true 1:1 image, and, if you use DVD Decrypter to create the image, a MDS file is also created with the layer break position.

[lrosado]

So something as small as the FBI warnings would affect the layer break? I just played the burnt image in two different standalone DVD players with no problem. Cant DVDDecrpter create an .mds file off the new image you create to make sure the layer break isnt moved?

[r0lZ]

Even if there are no changes in the sizes of the files, when you save the DVD, the VTS pointers are computed again, from scratch. Often, those pointers will be different than in the original. Since they are used to inform the burning app on how the files must be layered out in the ISO, a minimal change in those pointers will move the layer break position.
The layer break must be at a precise position. If it is moved, the burning application will not be able to use that cell any more, and will probably use another one (if it finds another suitable cell), or will burn a coaster.
The job of PgcEdit is to recompute those VTS pointers so that the cell you have selected is positioned correctly. MKISOFS is a good program: it looks in the IFOs to use the right cell, and position it correctly in the ISO. ImgBurn, also an excellent program, can then switch to layer 1 when needed.

Nero is not suitable to burn DL-DVDs, unless you burn a 1:1 image, because it recomputes the VTS pointers. The layer break is placed at the position it selects, instead of the position requested by the user!

Of course, when you rip a 1:1 image of the original DVD, the files are not moved, and the VTS pointers not modified. You can therefore burn it directly on a DL DVD+R, including with Nero.

But note that you MUST rip your DVD in file mode and use PgcEdit to burn a DL DVD-R, because the -R (crappy) technology is not compatible with the standard position of the layer break. It must always be placed at the very end of layer 0. It's not compatible with a pressed DL-DVD, where the layer break is usually near the middle of the compilation. The +R technology has not this limitation.

[mazafaka]

2 ISOs (project size about 6.2 Gb) created one after another with pgcEdit (& mkisofs) have different content and size!

Please, explain.

What does mkisofs try to find in subdirs? Was ISO created correctly? See attachment.

PS Dear r0lZ, what about my previous post?

[r0lZ]

Still waiting for the attachments to be approved. If you want a quick reply, upload your files at yousendit.com (http://www.yousendit.com/) and paste the links here.

[mazafaka]

For post #94
http://sergepp.chat.ru/new-2.gif
http://sergepp.chat.ru/new-3.gif

For post #101
http://sergepp.chat.ru/NEUKROTIMAJA_log.txt

[lrosado]

Now that is an answer. Thanks for clearing it up for me r0lz, I fully understand the process that happens when a file is edited in anyway. I appreciate your help and patience, I just got into DL-DVD's. Thanks again, will stick with 1:1 copies using DVDDecrypter to rip to ISO then burn with DVDDecrypter/IMGBurn.

[r0lZ]

For post #94
http://sergepp.chat.ru/new-2.gif
http://sergepp.chat.ru/new-3.gif

For post #101
http://sergepp.chat.ru/NEUKROTIMAJA_log.txt
About post 94 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=772799&postcount=94):
That's right. The original position of the layer break is not available in the PgcEdit GUI.

There could be several reason for this problem:
- Mkisofs creates the file system at the beginning of the DVD, as it should, but it uses more space than the standard filesystems found on most pressed DVDs, and even on some burned DVDs. Therefore, all files are shifted a bit.
- Your recordable DVD has less space available than the original pressed DVD. This is often the case.
- You may have entered a wrong value in the "number of sectors in a DL dvd" field of the burn setup dialog.
- You may have modified the DVD, inserting a menu or something else at the beginning.

Anyway, the calculation of PgcEdit is right: The relative start sector of cell 22 is 1899136. The relative start of cell 23 is 1974851. Therefore, the length of cell 22 is 1974851 - 1899136 = 75715 sectors.
The absolute starting sector of cell 22 is 2044822. Therefore, the absolute starting sector of cell 23 is 2044822 + 75715 = 2120537.
The total number of sectors availables on the DL DVD+R (as configured in the burn setup dialog) is 4173824. Therefore, there is 4173824 / 2 = 2086912 sectors available on layer 0.
Since 2120537 is greather than 2086912, cell 23 cannot be used for the layer break.

Try this:
- Examine your DL DVD+R with ImgBurn, and if there are more free sectors than the standard value 4173824, you may change that value in the burn setup dialog, and retry. But since the +R technology is supposed to have always the same number of free sectors, I doubt it will help.
- Try to remove some unnecessary material before VTST 1 (ie, in the VMGM menu, or in the VTSM 1 menu.) Often, the VMGM is not useful, and contains only FBI warnings and studio logos. You can blank it completely using the "Blank out all menu PGCs" function. Tick the option to completely remove the VOB file.
- If it's still not enough, you can try to convert the main menu in VTSM 1 to still with MenuShrink.
- If it's still not enough, you will have to live with it. Just select another layer break position.

[r0lZ]

About post 101 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=776773&postcount=101):

Well, seems you have a folder named NEUKROTIMAJA inside your VIDEO_TS folder! You cannot do that. If you want to burn DVD-ROM files with your compilation, you must put them in the root folder of the DVD, not in VIDEO_TS or AUDIO_TS. Also, do not put IFO, BUP or VOB files in a DVD-ROM folder.
Note also that the file names are too long for mkisofs. Unfortunately, mkisofs (or cygwin1.dll?) has several bugs when it deals with Windows filenames.

PgcEdit removes automatically the backup folders (PgcEdit_backup, VobBlanker_Backup, etc...) from the compilation, but it cannot remove the other folders, like NEUKROTIMAJA. But when it detects such files or folders in VIDEO_TS, it should warn you, and open the DVD folder automatrically, to let you remove them.

This problem is strange, though. Maybe you have a problem with your filesystem? You should try to do an Error-checking of your D: drive. BTW, what OS are you using? Win XP? With NTFS partitions?

Please try the latest release of PgcEdit. I have changed the way mkisofs is called. It might work fine now. (BTW, I have to fix a little bug in the burn DL GUI. Maybe it's better to wait for 0.6.3.1.)

Was ISO created correctly?Hum, no, I don't think so. If mkisofs has included some alien files in your VIDEO_TS folder, it's really a bad thing, since it's illegal. Try to redo the ISO with PgcEdit 0.6.3(.1).

[mazafaka]

Thank you for detailed answer!

The problem (no, problems) with mkisofs & cygwin1.dll. It dislike long filenames. But after filenames shortening it warn
mkisofs: No such file or directory. Can't stat D:\VIDEO_TS\NEUKROTIM
mkisofs: Can't open device 'D:\VIDEO_TS\NEUKROTIM'
mkisofs: Unable to parse DVD-Video structures.
Hmm, up level dir name is truncated by few chars.

And as I said before:
1. Open project (just VIDEO_TS, no DVD-ROM files)
2. Push "Burn DVD/create ISO", OK, OK, etc. - 1.iso created successfully.
3. Push "Burn DVD/create ISO", OK, OK, etc. - 2.iso created successfully.
Finally, binary comparing.
Result: 1.iso != 2.iso and sometimes sizeof 1.iso != sizeof 2.iso
Is it OK??

PS Of course WinXP SP2 NTFS

PPS Could you recommend for testing something esle from software for DL recording (I mean ISO creation too)? (I used CopyToDVD for burn-on-the-fly, till I found a serious bug in it)

[hardkid]

I have read this thread and tried methods to burn DVD-R Dual Layer, described herein. As a result I have a DVD that plays on a standalone DVD player (Pioneer 920), but the layer break seems to be 20 minutes from the beginning of the film - at least there is some bug - the movie is paused and goes in steps for about 2-3 secs and then continues normally. So, please tell me, is there some up-to-date method to burn DVD-R DL just as good and error free, as DVD+R DL? Where can I find that solution? I was stupid enough to buy 20 DVD-R DL...

Thanx

[[Tobi]]

@ hardkid

With my last test (PgcEdit 0.6.3beta8), the DVD-R DL was created correctly.
If is a little bit wrong with the layer break, the DVD should hang at the end of the Layer 0.

A little more precise description what you have done, could help to analyze the problem.

[r0lZ]

@hardkid

Well, there is something that PgcEdit don't do. It leaves the original seamless playback joint cell flag as it is in the original DVD. This could be why you experience a pause after 20' of the movie. You can manually set the flag in the LB selection dialog, or in the PGC Editor window. Anyway, this flag is set by most ripping apps, unless you turn this option off.

The problem can be caused also by wrong parameters in the burn setup or the main burn GUI. Are you sure you have specified that yopu burn a DL-DVD-R? And set the right number of sectors in L0?

A pause can also be caused by bad media.

Anyway, Tobi is right. Currently, ImgBurn is unable to set the LB of a DL DVD-R at the wrong place. The -R technology imposes it at the end of L0.

If you wish, send me your IFOs. I'll have a look.

[r0lZ]

@mazafaka

D:\VIDEO_TS\NEUKROTIM... is an illegal filename! As I have said elsewhere, you CANNOT have DVD-ROM files in VIDEO_TS! Only IFO, BUP and VOB files. "NEUKROTIM" is obviously not a legal name for a DVD-Video file. Also, if VIDEO_TS is in D:\, all files on D: will be burned, as DVD-ROM files!

Try with a structure like:
D:\rip\my_dvd\VIDEO_TS\ <with the DVD-Video files>
I use this kind of pathname, without problem.

Do not use VIDEO_TS elsewhere in the pathname. It must be the LAST folder in the hierarchy.

[mazafaka]

r0lZ, I'm so sorry. I didn't say that my D:\VIDEO_TS contains folders film1, film2, etc. And each film* contains AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS. Should I rename d:\video_ts?

[r0lZ]

Yes! It might confuse mkisofs.

[hardkid]

Please tell me why my burning could fail - I was using a Verbatim DVD+R DL disk.

I 22:09:10 Operation Started!
I 22:09:10 Source File: C:\Images\BRAM_STOKERS_DRACULA.MDS
I 22:09:10 Source File Sectors: 3*893*536 (MODE1/2048)
I 22:09:10 Source File Size: 7*973*961*728 bytes
I 22:09:10 Source File Implementation Identifier: SONY DVD Video
I 22:09:10 Destination Device: [0:0:0] HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4167B DL11 (G:) (ATA)
I 22:09:10 Destination Media Type: DVD+R DL (Disc ID: MKM-001-00) (Speeds: 2,4x; 4x; 6x)
I 22:09:10 Destination Media Sectors: 4*173*824
I 22:09:10 Write Mode: DVD
I 22:09:10 Write Type: SAO
I 22:09:10 Write Speed: 4x
I 22:09:10 Link Size: Auto
I 22:09:10 Test Mode: No
I 22:09:10 BURN-Proof: Enabled
I 22:09:10 Optimal L0 Data Zone Capacity: 1*960*736
I 22:09:10 Optimal L0 Data Zone Method: Copied From Original Disc
I 22:10:27 Filling Buffer...
I 22:10:28 Writing LeadIn...
I 22:10:35 Writing Image...
W 22:22:49 Failed to Write Sectors 1961280 - 1961311 - No Seek Complete
W 22:22:49 Retrying (1 of 20)...
W 22:22:49 Retry Failed - Invalid Address For Write
W 22:24:12 Failed to Write Sectors 1961280 - 1961311 - Invalid Address For Write

Omitting retries here

W 22:24:26 Retry Failed - Invalid Address For Write
W 22:24:26 Retrying (20 of 20)...
W 22:24:26 Retry Failed! - Invalid Address For Write
E 22:24:50 Failed to Write Sectors 1961280 - 1961311 - Invalid Address For Write
I 22:24:50 Synchronising Cache...
I 22:24:51 Closing Track...
I 22:25:12 Finalising Disc...
E 22:25:29 Failed to Write Image!
E 22:25:29 Operation Failed! - Duration: 00:16:18
I 22:25:29 Average Write Rate: 4*587 KB/s (3.3x) - Maximum Write Rate: 5*565 KB/s (4.0x)

[hardkid]

@Tobi

Thanx, I downloaded the latest version, but is there a step by step instruction FOR IT? I want to experiment again. My previous experiment was in strict accordance with blutach's guide (How to burn Dual Layer Disks with PgcEdit).

Thanx

[[Tobi]]

I am not sure how it has come to these error.

If the layer break passes from PgcEdit to ImgBurn with CLI, following entry must stand in the log.

***User Specified L0 Data Zone Capacity***

In your ImgBurn.log stands, the L0 Data Zone Capacity was copied from the original disc.
There are several possibilities how it has come to this errror.
I suggest, you wait to r0lZ or Lightning UK have read.

[[Tobi]]

I do not know whether there are actual guide.
I cannot help, Sorry.

[r0lZ]

I see in the log:
I 22:09:10 Optimal L0 Data Zone Method: Copied From Original Disc

I suppose this means that you did not use PgcEdit to create the ISO. I don't know how ImgBurn works when doing a 1:1 direct copy. Therefore, I can't help. Sorry.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Looks like a drive/media/firmware issue to me. Could just be a bad disc, or it could be that LG need to release a firmware update to make the drive write to those discs properly.

The actual position of the layerbreak would have no effect on the burning part.

[hardkid]

@ Tobi

Did you edit your reply and wiped off some valuable information from it? It seems to me, there was some instruction with steps and pictures. I mean the guide "How to burn DVD-R DL disks"? I'm sure I saw this and now that I'm back to read it thouroughly and experiment at last - it's gone. So, the question remains - is there a 100% definite answer to this problem?

[r0lZ]

There is a guide by Blutach on how to burn DL-DVDs with PgcEdit on my homepage. Should be the one you are looking for.

[hardkid]

@ r0lZ

Yes, I know about this guide. I followed it and had an error dvd-r dl. Then somebody posted some corrections and remarks to that guide in this thread. With steps and pictures. I think it was Tobi. But now it is gone. So, I'm still looking for a final cut of the guide, which gives 100% compatible and error-free DVD-R Dual Layer.

[r0lZ]

The only important thing to burn a DL DVD-R is that you must use ImgBurn to retrieve the number of sectors in L0, and copy this number in the PgcEdit Burn Setup dialog.
Set also the DL Media type to -R in the main burn dialog, of course.
The rest of the guide should be identical.

[blutach]

This is the second issue I have seen with this drive,media and firmware combination. Take LUK!'s advice.

Regards

[hardkid]

@ r0lZ

Ok, I'll try to spoil another DVD-R DL :-)

@ blutach

This is a misunderstanding. The problem with drive/media/firmware is a separate problem. In this case I was just burning a standard DVD+R Double Layer disk and had a burning error. Probably this was a bad media, since other 30 disks burned OK.

But another problem was the DVD-R Dual Layer disk. I did everything as per your guide, and the whole process was OK, including burning. But when I started watching the resulting DVD - I had a 2-3 sec pause somewhere 20 minutes from the beginning of the feature. Maybe you wrote some updated guide? Is it possible to make the same correct DVD's with DVD-R DL blank disks, as correct as DVD+R DL? At all?

Thanks.

[r0lZ]

IMO, no! The -R technology is inferior to the +R, and you have to write data near the outer edge of the disc, even if the DVD is not full. This means that there are sensible data on a zone of the DVD which is often defective, and can also easily be soiled or scratched.
But that doesn't explain why you got a pause in your main title. Have you checked the seamless falgs?

[hardkid]

How to check for seamless flags? Also, what I am doing now is the following:

1. Copy all files from a DVD to HDD with DVD Decrypter in file mode. Correct?
2. Open them with PGCEdit 0.6.3.1 and choose Burn DVD/Create ISO. Correct?
3. In Setup I check free/L0 sectors with ImgBurn in ISO mode. OK?
4. In Setup I insert the data from step 3 (above) into two lower fields. OK?
5. Press OK and an image is created with mkisofs. Right?
6. Burn this image with ImgBurn. Right?

This is all, as far as I understand? Thus, we make an ISO with an old layer break removed and a new one inserted, right? What removes the old layer break and at what stage?

One more thing. When I get the Layer Break Menu, I have no colored lines at all, no yellow, green or blue (see the picture attached) Should I choose the one which is already highlighted or choose another one (guided by what?)

Thanks.

P.S. Now watching the disk made like this, so far no problems.

[r0lZ]

The procedure is correct, though it is better to burn the ISO directly from within PgcEdit (by selecting the Burn with ImgBurn option.) This way, PgcEdit passes the LB position to ImgBurn automatically. If you launch ImgBurn manually, it will have to guess the position of the layer break. Anyway, since the LB position is fixed for a -R, this is not really a problem.

PgcEdit doesn't remove the original "layer break" automatically. Mainly because there are no "layer break" in the DVD files. The real layer break is only a way to burn some sectors in a particular way. What we call incorrectly "layer break flag" is indeed only the inverse of the seamless playback (or seamless joint) flag. This is because the seamless joint flag must be clear at the position of the layer break. But this flag can also be clear for many other reasons. For example, it must be clear on the first cell of a PGC, and on any cell that, for any reason, cannot be played seamlessly.

You can check if the seamless joint flag is still clear at the original position of the layer break this way: open the PGC Editor on your main title PGC (by double-clicking on the main title PGC label in the left pane of the main PgcEdit window.) In the cells list, see the column labelled "Layer Break ?" with checkboxes. (Note the ? in the label, which means that the information here is only a guess!)
As I said above, the first cell must have the seamless flag clear, and will therefore have the LB checkbox ticked, but it should be grayed out. Don't change it!
Often, if the last cell is a tiny black cell of less than 1 sec, it has also the seamless flag clear, and you should not change it, too.
But if you notice another cell with the LB checkbox ticked, somewhere in the middle of the main title, then it is probably that cell that was used as the original LB. You should clear the LB flag. (Note that the 1st value in the Cell Types flags button will be incremented by 8, because the seamless joint flag is now ON.)
Save and burn.
Note that it is possible to set the seamless joint flag also from the layer break selection dialog of the burn function, with the "Seamless Cell" button. But since this dialog shows only the cells that are suitable for the layer break position, you cannot use it to verify all cells of the main movie.

In the LB selection dialog, PgcEdit tries to guess the best position for the layer break. If it finds an original LB (seamless flag clear), it will probably select that cell by default.
Anyway, you can select any cell you want. It's really up to you. Use the preview to select a cell where the pause will be less noticeable. The colour codes are there to help you, but you don't need to use a coloured cell.
If you select another cell and there is a cell with the seamless flag clear, don't forget to use the "Seamless Cell" button on the original cell to clear the original "layer break" flag (ie, set the seamless joint flag.)

Maybe I will add a function to verify the seamless flags of all cells of the main movie, and warn the user if there is a non-seamless cell somewhere. But it's dangerous to remove it automatically, because, as I said, there are many reasons for this situation.

[eriksen76]

The procedure is correct, though it is better to burn the ISO directly from within PgcEdit (by selecting the Burn with ImgBurn option.) This way, PgcEdit passes the LB position to ImgBurn automatically. If you launch ImgBurn manually, it will have to guess the position of the layer break. Anyway, since the LB position is fixed for a -R, this is not really a problem.

PgcEdit doesn't remove the original "layer break" automatically. Mainly because there are no "layer break" in the DVD files. The real layer break is only a way to burn some sectors in a particular way. What we call incorrectly "layer break flag" is indeed only the inverse of the seamless playback (or seamless joint) flag. This is because the seamless joint flag must be clear at the position of the layer break. But this flag can also be clear for many other reasons. For example, it must be clear on the first cell of a PGC, and on any cell that, for any reason, cannot be played seamlessly.

You can check if the seamless joint flag is still clear at the original position of the layer break this way: open the PGC Editor on your main title PGC (by double-clicking on the main title PGC label in the left pane of the main PgcEdit window.) In the cells list, see the column labelled "Layer Break ?" with checkboxes. (Note the ? in the label, which means that the information here is only a guess!)
As I said above, the first cell must have the seamless flag clear, and will therefore have the LB checkbox ticked, but it should be grayed out. Don't change it!
Often, if the last cell is a tiny black cell of less than 1 sec, it has also the seamless flag clear, and you should not change it, too.
But if you notice another cell with the LB checkbox ticked, somewhere in the middle of the main title, then it is probably that cell that was used as the original LB. You should clear the LB flag. (Note that the 1st value in the Cell Types flags button will be incremented by 8, because the seamless joint flag is now ON.)
Save and burn.
Note that it is possible to set the seamless joint flag also from the layer break selection dialog of the burn function, with the "Seamless Cell" button. But since this dialog shows only the cells that are suitable for the layer break position, you cannot use it to verify all cells of the main movie.

In the LB selection dialog, PgcEdit tries to guess the best position for the layer break. If it finds an original LB (seamless flag clear), it will probably select that cell by default.
Anyway, you can select any cell you want. It's really up to you. Use the preview to select a cell where the pause will be less noticeable. The colour codes are there to help you, but you don't need to use a coloured cell.
If you select another cell and there is a cell with the seamless flag clear, don't forget to use the "Seamless Cell" button on the original cell to clear the original "layer break" flag (ie, set the seamless joint flag.)

Maybe I will add a function to verify the seamless flags of all cells of the main movie, and warn the user if there is a non-seamless cell somewhere. But it's dangerous to remove it automatically, because, as I said, there are many reasons for this situation.

Jeez, I'm a bit confused about all this, all though seems as a very good explanation.

Until now, before I burn the DL I always open the movie .ifo file with ifoedit to see where the orginal layer break is. Then in the PGC selection just before processing, I select the exact same spot.

I guess that is ok, even though I might have removed some trailers, warnings or other stuff? Haven't had any issues yet using the same spot.

If I have somehow made a mock strip or run the DVD9 through Dvdshrink etc. etc. which removes the orginal layer break. (when looking it up with ifoedit) Then I guess I can simply select whatever layer break I want and make it work anyhow.

The before mentioned way of removing layer breaks has never caused me any probs on my DVD5 rips

Comments on this DL methods are more than welcome

Rolz? ;-)

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

You can locate and/or remove the LB with IfoEdit, too, but it's more complicated than with PgcEdit. And since you have to load the IFOs in PgcEdit anyway, why use another tool?

Note: If you want to benefit from the 32K gap method of PgcEdit when burning single layer DVDs, don't forget to load and save the DVD with PgcEdit before burning it, or the 32K gaps will be lost (because IfoEdit do a very basic GetVTS Sectors.)
When burning a DL DVD, the IFOs are saved anyway by PgcEdit before the burn, so it doesn't matter.
To learn why you should use the 32K gap method (and avoid Nero!), have a look at the guide by blutach on my homepage.

[ron spencer]

-R DL is dead in the water...I don't know why anyone bothers with it...just check the review sites like cdrlabs, cdfeaks, etc....they hardly play anywhere

[eriksen76]

You can locate and/or remove the LB with IfoEdit, too, but it's more complicated than with PgcEdit. And since you have to load the IFOs in PgcEdit anyway, why use another tool?

Note: If you want to benefit from the 32K gap method of PgcEdit when burning single layer DVDs, don't forget to load and save the DVD with PgcEdit before burning it, or the 32K gaps will be lost (because IfoEdit do a very basic GetVTS Sectors.)
When burning a DL DVD, the IFOs are saved anyway by PgcEdit before the burn, so it doesn't matter.
To learn why you should use the 32K gap method (and avoid Nero!), have a look at the guide by blutach on my homepage.

How can I easily remove a layer break with PgcEdit. I believe I tried it once, but after saving the dvd with PGCEDIT, and I re-opended with Ifoedit the layerbreak was still there. At the same exact spot. (According to Ifoedit)

So far I haven't burned a DVD5 using PGCEDIT, and therefore not the 32K gaps option on these either. So a import/save in PGCEDIT will create those gaps, and make sure they are there even when using IMGBURN and Classic_0.91.7? Or do I have to use the burning engine in PGCEDIT for this?

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

See my prev post on how to remove the LB. Just untick the "Layer Break ?" checkbox, and save. BTW, in an old version, there was a bug in the PgcEdit GUI, and toggling the LB flag has no effect. It is fixed now.

You can use ImgTool Classic to burn the files saved by PgcEdit with the 32K gap option ON. ImgTool is only a GUI over mkisofs. PgcEdit uses mkisofs directly.
Of course, you need to create the ISO with PgcEdit to burn a double layer DVD9. ImgTool cannot pad the files to place the LB at the right position in the ISO.

[eriksen76]

See my prev post on how to remove the LB. Just untick the "Layer Break ?" checkbox, and save. BTW, in an old version, there was a bug in the PgcEdit GUI, and toggling the LB flag has no effect. It is fixed now.

You can use ImgTool Classic to burn the files saved by PgcEdit with the 32K gap option ON. ImgTool is only a GUI over mkisofs. PgcEdit uses mkisofs directly.
Of course, you need to create the ISO with PgcEdit to burn a double layer DVD9. ImgTool cannot pad the files to place the LB at the right position in the ISO.

Ok! Thanx again for your fine explanations. I guess you're refferring to the guide where I open the Video_Ts folder with the files in, and double click on the movie pgc. Then I un-tick the small "flag" (whatever its called) where the layer break is, and save the whole thing.

You right, it works - Much faster than "muck strip method" using Ifoedit.

/Eriksen76

[hardkid]

I have several DVDs to backup, but they bear a new sign "DVD protected from copying". What does it mean? Or it means nothing for us? :-)

[ron spencer]

means nothing

[hardkid]

I'm doing this:

1. Making an ISO with DVD Decrypter
2. Burning this ISO with DVD Decrypter - using MDS file for layers info

As a result - I got 4 faulty DVD+R Double Layer disks (total I burned 5). The picture just hangs at some spot, the disk hangs.

What am I doing wrong? I thought with DVD Decrypter it's the easiest and safest way to burn DVD+R DL (Verbatim) disks? Or should I use PGCEdit + ImgBurn, as with DVD-R DL disks?

Thanks

One more thing:

Just checked the previous 10 disks burned exactly as described above - they are OK! And these 5 (all five, not 4!) - they all hang!
What could be the reason for it? HDD fragmentation, any conflicts?

Sometimes the Decrypter gives me this:

W 16:32:00 [0:0:0] HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4167B DL13 (G:) (ATA)
W 16:32:00 Media region code is mismatched to logical unit region!
W 16:32:00 Logical unit region code: 1
W 16:32:00 Media region code: 5
W 16:32:00 The slower 'Brute Force' cracking methods will be used instead of I/O Key Exchange.
W 16:32:00 Visit http://www.rpc1.org for Region Free (RPC Phase I) Firmware.

or this:

W 17:15:03 Possible Structure Protection Found!
W 17:15:03 1 area has been marked as 'suspect'.
W 17:15:03 Dummy sectors will be inserted where necessary.

Can the above be the cause of errors? In my case and in general - are they any harmful?

[hardkid]

I burned one more disk with PGCEdit + ImgBurn this time, it gave no errors during burning. But this time I turned "Verification" on, and at verification stage it failed!!! What does it mean? That the problem is not in the software, not in the disk itself, but in the LG drive, it's hardware or firmware?

Now, please recommend me the best burner available now, the best for DL disks, since single layer disks seem to have been burned OK.