identify used encoders in .mp4 files

[Hyper Shinchan]

[QUOTE16) Is it possible to find out which codecs where used to create a MP4 file?
Yes, this is already possible for MPEG-4 ASP video streams and MP3 Audio streams (currently no real solution for AAC exists)
read more about it here
[/QUOTE]
It's strange, with dBpowerAMP I can see wich codec I've used, in the tag editor. But it works only with Nero Digital Audio and Apple's M4A.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Hyper Shinchan
16) Is it possible to find out which codecs where used to create a MP4 file?
Yes, this is already possible for MPEG-4 ASP video streams and MP3 Audio streams (currently no real solution for AAC exists)
read more about it here

It's strange, with dBpowerAMP I can see which codec I've used, in the tag editor. But it works only with Nero Digital Audio and Apple's M4A. Actually it been possible to find out whether your MP4 file contains AAC or MP3 audio with mp4UI for ages.

And depending on how your file has been muxed, mp4UI can even provide information about the video codec: -

http://img65.echo.cx/img65/3338/mp4uiinfo5sy.gif

And yes dbPowerAMP can tell you about the audio codec too!
Cheers

[Hyper Shinchan]

And how should I mux the mp4 to see the encoder?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Hyper Shinchan
And how should I mux the mp4 to see the encoder? We should not be clogging this thread with these sorts of questions... but... the only .MP4 muxer I know that retains "encoder" information is mp4UI.


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
[B]We should not be clogging this thread with these sorts of questions... but... the only .MP4 muxer I know that retains "encoder" information is mp4UI.wrong,
for asp mp4box leaves the userdata in the vol, which, for xvid, divx, 3ivx and ffmpeg/ffdshow, nero streams, tells the used encoder
for avc mp4box and mp4creator leave the userdata sei in the stream, which, for nero and x264 streams, tells the used encoder

just because mp4ui sometimes strangely displays the used encoder and sometimes not, doesnt mean much

also you guys shouldnt forget that it simply doesnt matter what encoder was used on a stream placed in .mp4 :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
wrong,
for asp mp4box leaves the userdata in the vol, which, for xvid, divx, 3ivx and ffmpeg/ffdshow, nero streams, tells the used encoder
for avc mp4box and mp4creator leave the userdata sei in the stream, which, for nero and x264 streams, tells the used encoder Agreed...

What I should have said was....

"but... the only .MP4 muxer I know that displays "encoder" information is mp4UI."

Originally posted by bond
just because mp4ui sometimes strangely displays the used encoder and sometimes not, doesnt mean muchSome of us like to know which encoder was used to create the encode... Especially when comparing the performance of different codecs.

Thankfully when you use either MP4Box and mp4UI to de-mux SP/ASP streams to .AVI, the UserData is preserved and can still be read in GSpot.

But as you can see, mp4UI does a nice job at displaying the encoder used: -

http://img211.echo.cx/img211/1048/mp4uimuxes6ek.gif


Cheers

[bond]

yep mp4ui does that nicely, but of course only on streams it muxed itself, so i dont think this can be seen as a real "works always" method, like analysing the userdata is for example
the last things i want to happen is that people start muxing their .avi files with mp4ui because of this, mp4ui is simply too buggy

also it has to be said that with the mpeg4vol tool from mpeg4ip you can readout the userdata without having to demux to avi

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes, you'll recieve no argument from me there on all your points ;)

A few months ago Markus talked about updating mp4UI with new versions of Mpeg4IP... Shame he has not got round to doing this yet.


Cheers

[Hyper Shinchan]

I'm sorry about the posts in the FAQ. Anyway I'ven't tried MP4ui yet, but how do you use it? Trough graphedit? I'm not very able with this tool.
also you guys shouldnt forget that it simply doesnt matter what encoder was used on a stream placed in .mp4
I think that I should know the encoder, there are difference in quality between the various encoder, also if there aren't problems like with the .AVI (.mp4 don't have a 4cc like them, right?).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Hyper Shinchan
...Anyway I'ven't tried MP4ui yet, but how do you use it? Trough graphedit? I'm not very able with this tool. mp4UI is a self contained application based around MPEG4IP v1.1

But as bond mentioned earlier, it's not recommended to use it at the moment because it's a little buggy!


Cheers

[Hyper Shinchan]

Especially I've tried it to make an .mp4 from an .avi and the file was corrupt, it doesn't play the video. It didn't happened with Yamb.

[Elias]

Originally posted by bond
also you guys shouldnt forget that it simply doesnt matter what encoder was used on a stream placed in .mp4 :) Why does that not matter for mp4? Sure, it's more important to know if it's in avi, because of the need to use the right decoder (XviD/DivX/etc), i.e. if you don't use ffdshow, but still I think it matters. For instance, if I got a Nero Digital certified DVD player, I need to know if it's Nero Digital mp4v/mp4a in the mp4 container, because if I'm not wrong, XviD in the mp4 container, wouldn't work as good as Nero Digital MPEG-4 video in that player, right?

And, as SeeMoreDigital so eloquently put it:Some of us like to know which encoder was used to create the encode... Especially when comparing the performance of different codecs.

[Elias]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
mp4UI is a self contained application based around MPEG4IP v1.1

But as bond mentioned earlier, it's not recommended to use it at the moment because it's a little buggy!I remember pissing Doom9 off about that, but still though, I think that Markus has a certain responsibility for his software. If it's really buggy, he should update it since there is a risk that people unaware of this, who just want to convert their DivX/XviD files to mp4, might convert loads of archives and without knowing it, get a lot of buggy files. It definitely increases the ratio of buggy/incompatible mp4 files floating around the internet.

[bond]

Originally posted by Elias
I need to know if it's Nero Digital mp4v/mp4a in the mp4 container, because if I'm not wrong, XviD in the mp4 container, wouldn't work as good as Nero Digital MPEG-4 video in that player, right?no, thats of course not right
moo, i am too lazy to explain the concept of open standards over and over again...

Originally posted by Elias
If it's really buggy, he should update it since there is a risk well mp4ui is heavily based on mp4creator -> mp4creator doesnt mux packed bitstream .avi files into .mp4 correctly -> mp4ui will not mux it correctly too until mp4creator gets fixed

so the mp4ui dev has three possibilities:
1) remove the possibility to remux .avi to .mp4 totally in mp4ui
2) fix mp4creator and therefore be able to have it correctly working in mp4ui too
3) simply do nothing and dont give a damn

seems he chose 3) ;)

[celtic_druid]

4) Detect packed bitstream and refuse to mux file, giving an appropriate error.

Would make the most sense to me.

[SeeMoreDigital]

4) Detect packed bitstream and refuse to mux file, giving an appropriate error.

Would make the most sense to me.Actually, mp4UI (or whatever it's built around) appears to produce buggy .MP4 files when fed with "simple profile" Mpeg4 sources too!


Cheers

[bond]

Actually, mp4UI (or whatever it's built around) appears to produce buggy .MP4 files when fed with "simple profile" Mpeg4 sources too!
in what way?

[Elias]

in what way?Have you forgotten? We've been through this more than once. Anyway, just grab the latest mp4UI, create an *.mp4 file with it, and have a look at it with dumpster: it's a mess. In fact, it's not *.mp4 files, it's something else.

[bond]

Have you forgotten? We've been through this more than once. Anyway, just grab the latest mp4UI, create an *.mp4 file with it, and have a look at it with dumpster: it's a mess. In fact, it's not *.mp4 files, it's something else.
am i really that dumb? :D

actually i just muxed a sp .avi into .mp4 and it seems to play fine, also looks normal when checking it with dumpster!?

can you point me to this discussion?

[SeeMoreDigital]

If you remember Bond, Mpeg4 SP muxes generated with mp4UI can't be played properly in QuickTime player (unless you have 3ivx filters installed)...

Unlike muxes generated with MP4Box.exe and the latest versions of mpeg4ip ;)


Cheers

[bond]

ah ok, that :)

[Elias]

am i really that dumb? :D

actually i just muxed a sp .avi into .mp4 and it seems to play fine, also looks normal when checking it with dumpster!?

can you point me to this discussion?It appears so :) And no, not even Simple Profile works with mp4UI. Here's a couple of screenshots I took with three different *.mp4 creating software:

mp4UIhttp://img194.echo.cx/img194/4472/mp4ui8hy.th.png (http://img194.echo.cx/my.php?image=mp4ui8hy.png) MP4Boxhttp://img173.echo.cx/img173/2610/mp4box1nc.th.png (http://img173.echo.cx/my.php?image=mp4box1nc.png) QTProhttp://img173.echo.cx/img173/7927/qtpro2cx.th.png (http://img173.echo.cx/my.php?image=qtpro2cx.png)

Here's one of the threads that I've been part of, and I know for sure that you and SeeMoreDigital have been through this like, 6 months prior.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=88977&highlight=mp4UI
Until Markus updates mp4UI (which is a really nice software otherwise, but outdated), I recommend everyone to stay away from it. At least when it comes to creating *.mp4 files. I mean, it hasn't been updated for a year or so. A good alternative is MP4Box in conjunction with YAMB.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Actually I first came across the mp4UI muxing problem over a year ago now, when I was trying to work out how to generate Mpeg4 SP/AAC in .MOV muxes suitable for streaming in QuickTime's web page enabled player.


Cheers

[bond]

It appears so :) And no, not even Simple Profile works with mp4UI. Here's a couple of screenshots I took with three different *.mp4 creating software:

mp4UIhttp://img194.echo.cx/img194/4472/mp4ui8hy.th.png (http://img194.echo.cx/my.php?image=mp4ui8hy.png)
hm that looks like those 64bit mp4 files, nero produces

normally when you optimize such a file in mp4ui it gets rewritten to normal 32bit, which dumpster can fully display (dumpster doesnt handle 64bit)

i think you probably have such a 64bit file, cause in my test mp4ui didnt produce such a file. dumpster showed everything perfectly

for producing a 64bit mp4 file, you can use the nero dshow muxer in graphedit. make sure you tick the 64bit option in it! it will be shown the same way in dumpster as on your screenshot

[Elias]

I know that Dumpster is 32 bit tool, but I'm on 32 bit Windows XP. It can't be 64 bit mp4 then?

[bond]

I know that Dumpster is 32 bit tool, but I'm on 32 bit Windows XP. It can't be 64 bit mp4 then?
sure :)