Problems with my first DV => DVD conversion. Looks like crap

[ou8thisSN]

OKay, i started 2 threads here and a couple elsewhere asking all of you for help with my first DV=> DVD transfer. Well I just finished burning the DVD...

and the picture looks like crap. I followed the Doom9 guide to a T, and not only does the video look like shit when the camera pans, its all jagged and wavy on every straight line. What is this a symptom of?

Also, it refuses to playback on a DVD player. I have a Pioneer DV-434 player and a Cyberhome POS player. It works just fine on the Cyberhome but not at all on the Pioneer. On the Pioneer it gets to the menu screen, and i click the play button, and it freezes after it plays about a second of video, and audio. You hear a buzz right before it freezes. Why?

I used DVD-Lab to create it. NOTHING fancy, just a menu screen with a background image and a button that pushes PLAY. thats all. No chapter menu or anything. I didnt get any errors in the write process and i used a 4x DVD-R to record on.


Anyway, getting back to the original issue of the piss poor picture quality here is an example:

http://img7.echo.cx/img7/119/test19vo.th.png (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=test19vo.png)

http://img7.echo.cx/img7/1610/test24gg.th.png (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=test24gg.png)

http://img7.echo.cx/img7/5818/test35ku.th.png (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=test35ku.png)

I captured the video using WinDV and edited it in Adobe Primiere 6.0, and encoded in 4 pass CCE with min at 2000 average at 7500 and max bitrate at 9500.

I can post the Avisynth script if you like. The only thing I did, not listed in the guide was convert the 4:3 frames into 16:9 before it encoded in CCE. Any help you guys can suggest would be wonderful.

Thanks

[communist]

Originally posted by ou8thisSN
The only thing I did, not listed in the guide was convert the 4:3 frames into 16:9 before it encoded in CCE.
And that seems to me the only problem. You cant resize interlaced material just like you can do with progressive. Also make sure you've set up CCE to encode it interlaced - otherwise it'll regard interlacing as details and you'll get unexpected results.

[ou8thisSN]

ok this time, i tried a short clip without 16:9 conversion in Adobe Primiere. This time the jaggedness was gone... a lot but there was still some color banding, etc.

if i wanted to do some resizing, should i do it in avisynth while running CCE?

if so, would this script work?

AviSource("E:\SWD_tape1\CCE Product\ActualTest.avi")
Crop(0,60,0,-60)
SeparateFields()
bicubicresize(720,240)
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()

is that command right? the bicubicresize (720, 240)? shouldnt it be 720, 360)? since i'm subtracting 60 and 60 from the top and bottom?

also, in CCE, there is an option in the bottom right for the aspect ratio: 4:3 or 16:9. Which should i pick there?


also why is this DVD just refusing to play on my DVD player?? it supports DVD-Rs just fine? does it just hate DVD lab or something? please, any ideas on that? I can upload my .DAL file from DVD lab...

[neuron2]

Please observe forum rule 4's instructions not to use profanity. It's not necessary and makes the forum look low-class. We're high-class people here. :) Thank you.

[bb]

ou8thisSN,

the AC3 you created using BeSweet might be the problem regarding your Pioneer player. Unfortunately some compatibility problems have been reported in conjunction with the AC3 encoder which you can use with BeSweet and certain standalones, especially Pioneer.

Your AviSynth script doesn't look bad (although I did not take the time to test it). Keep in mind that you have to resize after separating the fields, else you'd destroy the interlace structure.

The crop and resize values are correct for NTSC (for PAL you'd have to crop 72 pixels from top and bottom and resize to 720x288). The values are calculated as follows:

NTSC frame size = 720x480 => AR (aspect ratio) = 720/480 = 1.5
DAR (display aspect ratio) = 4:3 = 1.33
=> PAR (pixel aspect ratio) = 0.88
DAR = 16:9 = 1.77
=> frame height = 720 / (DAR / PAR) = 720 / (1.77 / 0.88) = 360
=> crop = 480 - 360 = 120, i.e. 60 pixels from top and bottom

You have to resize back to the field size, which is 720x(480/2) = 720x240

As this is an anamorphic frame, you have to set the 16:9 flag while encoding, thus you should pick the 16:9 option in CCE.

By the way: By upsizing the low resolution 16:9 image to an anamorphic frame you don't gain quality, but you need more bitrate to encode the video. I'd rather recommend to just crop the 60 pixels from top and bottom, add back black borders using the AddBorders command, and encode 4:3. Then use the TV set's 16:9 zoom to watch the video. Instead of the Crop/AddBorders combo you could use Letterbox, too.

bb

[ou8thisSN]

Wow, thanks for the information regarding the AC3 encoder/Pioneer problems.

Is there a workaround for this? may I use a different AC3 encoder or anything else on this site to encode which will still allow it to be DVD compliant and still work in my Pioneer (essentially any player I throw at it)?

in relation to your other post about my avisynth script, it seems to now work fine and give me an acceptable picture. but you're suggesting that i do the CROPing after the separatefields command, not before as i have it now?


the problem with the video is that its just home movies that I want to transfer and both our TVs are 16:9 format HDTVs. Displaying it has 4:3 would be okay, but my parents think it "looks wierd". Also if you stretch 4:3 with a non-lineaer stretch mode built into the TVs themselves, then you see a lot of distortion on pans. And home movies are full of pans as we arent good cinematographers :)

so my option is to either crop and resize it to fit or do what you suggested although I have one question:

what is the difference between cropping and adding the Addborders command and what I am doing now? arent they both causing the loss in resolution, except the latter making it into a 2.35:1 aspect ratio or something?

thanks a lot of answering, although my primary concern now is how to encode the audio that way my Pioneer doesnt reject it.

[bb]

Originally posted by ou8thisSN
Wow, thanks for the information regarding the AC3 encoder/Pioneer problems.
You're welcome :)

Originally posted by ou8thisSN
Is there a workaround for this? may I use a different AC3 encoder or anything else on this site to encode which will still allow it to be DVD compliant and still work in my Pioneer (essentially any player I throw at it)?
Of course you can use a commercial AC3 encoder, but unfortunately there aren't any free alternatives as far as I know. Another option is to encode MP2. Should work even with NTSC, although NTSC DVDs should contain an AC3 stream. PAL DVDs are specified to work with MP2 alone, by the way. But I guess you won't find any NTSC standalones either that don't play your MP2-only DVD nowadays.

Originally posted by ou8thisSN
in relation to your other post about my avisynth script, it seems to now work fine and give me an acceptable picture. but you're suggesting that i do the CROPing after the separatefields command, not before as i have it now?
No, cropping before is fine, but resizing has to be done after. That's what I wrote by the way.

Originally posted by ou8thisSN
the problem with the video is that its just home movies that I want to transfer and both our TVs are 16:9 format HDTVs. Displaying it has 4:3 would be okay, but my parents think it "looks wierd". Also if you stretch 4:3 with a non-lineaer stretch mode built into the TVs themselves, then you see a lot of distortion on pans. And home movies are full of pans as we arent good cinematographers :)
There should be a non-distorting 16:9 zoom, which simply makes the black bars of your 4:3 encoded (letterboxed) 16:9 video disappear.

Originally posted by ou8thisSN
so my option is to either crop and resize it to fit or do what you suggested although I have one question:

what is the difference between cropping and adding the Addborders command and what I am doing now? arent they both causing the loss in resolution, except the latter making it into a 2.35:1 aspect ratio or something?
The difference is that now you're trying to encode an anamorpic video without black bars by upscaling the video. This way there are more pixels to encode compared with the letterboxed version (= 4:3 with black bars). The black bars themselves don't need much bitrate, it's not worth to mention. As your anamorphic video does not contain any additional information, but there are more pixels to encode, you need more bitrate for the same quality.

Originally posted by ou8thisSN
thanks a lot of answering, although my primary concern now is how to encode the audio that way my Pioneer doesnt reject it.
Well, I hope I could help.

bb

[ou8thisSN]

Ok, BB I wanted to follow your advice and try the AddBorders() function but I got stuck and crashed CCE/Avisynth/Vdub...


here is my script:

AviSource("E:\SWD_tape1\CCE Product\ActualTest.avi")
Crop(0,60,0,-60)
SeparateFields()
AddBorders(0,60,0-60)
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()

I took out the line about BicubicResize, I am assuming I need to?

anyway, I guess I thought logically that if i Crop 60 pixels, then I need to have 60 pixels as black borders. Obviously that isnt correct or I woudlnt be writing this, can you offer any help?

and i guess its redundant, but if i do this then I'll be encoding in 4:3 right?