Subtitles can't be turned off!

[jeanl]

Guys,
I have this extremely simple DVD (reauthored in DVDShrink), no pre-commands whatsoever. It has 1 subpic stream 0x20. The problem is it's impossible to turn the subtitles off! No precommand will do it, and when playing in PowerDVD, you can't turn them off (the option is available, but even when they're off, they're still on!).

Question:
- What is the logic that controls which subpics are displayed and whether they are displayed?
- Is there a command in the subpic stream that can force it to be displayed even if the player was asked not to?
- If there's only one subpic stream defined in the IFO, is it always going to be displayed? I can define a second one, and point it to a non existent stream, and in that case, I can turn the subtitles off simply by selecting this non-existent stream, but I don't understand the logic.

jeanl

[blutach]

Which version of PowerDVD are you using?

I have problems with PowerDVD v6 in that it remembers the state of the subbies from previous DVDs and no amount of commands in the IFOs will make it behave.

PowerDVD v5 works OK though. Also, MPC, Showtime, IfoEdit's player etc.

Check it out - burn a disk (one cell of the title will do obviously) and play it. Your problems (and subbies) will disappear.

As to forcing a stream on, AFAIK, if a stream is designated as forced, then loading SPRM 2 with 63 will automatically turn it on.

Regards

[jeanl]

I'm using PowerDVD 5.0, and IFOEdit playback behaves exactly the same (except that declaring another stream that does not exist in the VOB, then selecting it, does not turn the subtitles off).

And, of course, I checked, they're not burned in! ;)
jeanl

[blutach]

I'm sure it's not the "single stream". I have many DVDs which have just the one stream.

Is it declared as stream 0? Oftentimes, SW players have problems turning this off and the option to do so is greyed out. So try moving the stream definition to 0, if it's not there already.

And are you saying that a standalone player also shows them? SPRM 2 must be being set somewhere then, you'd think.

Regards

[jeanl]

I'll do more tests tonight, but yes, that's the idea. They show no matter what, there's no way to turn them off, and there's no command anywhere!!!!
Hence my question: Is there a command in the subpics that can make the subpic stream display no matter what...
jean

[2COOL]

Having read the thread at VCDhelp.com (http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269383) and here, I haven't seen this command being tried.

http://home.tiscali.be/debie.roland/pgcedit/third_party/2cool/subtitles/subtitles_off_default_pgcedit.htm

Did I miss something?

[jeanl]

You missed his post:
"I have placed a (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 62:not set "

this is the same you have in your guide... And in this case, it does not work.
Jeanl

[2COOL]

My guide has this

[51 00 00 00 BE 00 00 00] 1 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 62: none

[jeanl]

I'm wondering if there's a FSTA_DSP subpic command in the subpic packs, but according to mpucoder, this only displays if subpictures are enabled...
EDIT:
Indeed, there seems to be a FSTA_DSP command 00...

http://img272.echo.cx/img272/6281/foo6wl.png (http://www.imageshack.us)

The first 00 is the delay, 0D 22 is the link to the next set of commands, and then you have the first command, 00 which is FSTA_DSP, no argument, followed by a set color (03) etc...

But according to mpucoder,

This command starts a forced display. This will display the subpicture if subpictures are enabled, it will not display them under all conditions. This is used for menues, button-over-video features, and even subtitles when the speakers are using no earthly language.


So perhaps this is the reason why these subpics display no matter what. A normal way to start the display would be with a STA_DSP (01) command, which does not force it...

EDIT: I checked in another DVD with subtitles, and indeed, the start command on that one seems to be a STA_DSP (01), not a FSTA_DSP (00)...

jeanl

[mpucoder]

try a SetSTN subpicture=63:off (51 00 00 00 BF 00 00 00)

[jeanl]

I just tried that with no result...
mpucoder, do you think that because the subpic uses the FSTA_DSP command, that's what's causing it to be displayed no matter what (unless you select another stream)?
jeanl

[mpucoder]

That's how forced subs work, but stream 62 or 63, depending on the player, should disable it. What language is the stream? There are some issues with shutting off subs if the stream language matches the preferred sub language. This is a title, not a menu, right? Are there any highlights (buttons)?

[jeanl]

OK. To know for sure, I replaced the 00 command in a few of the first subpic packs, by a 01 command (FSTA_DSP replaced by STA_DSP), and sure enough, things work as expected for these subpics!
In other words, they're only displayed in the subtitles are on. But the rest of them are displayed no matter what.

So, it seems that a FSTA_DSP command displays the subpics if the current stream is selected, whether or not it's on or off. STA_DSP only displays them if they're on...

The original DVD had 2 more subpic streams, plus 1 that was of size 0 (nothing in the VOBs), which I think was used precisely to turn the subtitles off (by selecting a stream that was not in the VOB)...

jeanl

[blutach]

Having read the thread at Videohelp, I think I know what might have happened.

As you know, in reauthor mode, DVD Shrink does a logical remapping of enabled streams. Language A with 0Mb is probably the forced stream (maybe a very little amount of alien speak to quote mpucoder). But this was not taken by the user. Perhaps what happened is that the stream he took was remapped to the forced stream and that ends up with a mess.

There's no getting round LRES in re-author mode. It just happens - see my analysis here (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45228).

Probably the stream was defined as forced in the streams attributes.

Just another thought.

Regards