Announcement: New open source DV codec (VfW)

[cedocida]

Cedocida DV Codec
===================

*** Current version is 0.2.2 (2010-May-19) ***
Official Homepage is here:
Cedocida DV Codec (http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~dittrich/cedocida/index.html)

The latest source code and binary is available in this thread here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1400918#post1400918),
or can be downloaded from Donald Graft's webpage (http://neuron2.net) (folow the "Hosted" link):

http://neuron2.net/cedocida/cedocida_0.2.2_bin.zip (binaries)
http://neuron2.net/cedocida/cedocida_0.2.2_sources.zip (sources)

Features:
- supported formats for in- and output: RGB, YUY2, YV12 (PAL-DV / MPEG2-I / MPEG2-P)
- direct YUV-4:2:0 output when using "YV12 PAL-DV" option
- optional forcing of selected input and output format
- settings for picture quality and compression methods

New in Version 0.2.2:
- fully support of 64bit operating systems
- fixed generation loss in color due to yuv422-to-yuv411 subsampling
- fixed rgb-to-yuv colorshift
- added means for setting the "16:9" flag in encoder and GUI
- fixed other bugs

[neuron2]

Thank you for your generous contribution! Open source codecs are always very gratefully and enthusiastically received.

Can you please advise about the schedule for NTSC support?

[communist]

Great stuff :)

Any possibility for a binary?

[guada 2]

The good ideas are always the welcome. :)

Thank you.

[WorBry]

Cant get it to install. Right click > Install on the cedocida_DVSD in the Release folder throws up an error:

"Setup cannot copy the file Cedocida.dll"

and

"Ensure that the location specified below is correct, or change it and insert 'Cedocida DV Video Codec' in the drive you specify"

I dont understand this statement.

The auto-selected path was "C:\Program Files\cedocida_0.1.5\Release" and I cant see a Cedocida.dll file elswhere in the directory.

Also, if I do manage to install it, can I assume that it will be possible to disable the codedc and swap it for other DV codecs using VCSwap?

Thanks.

[cedocida]

@neuron2
Can you please advise about the schedule for NTSC support?
hmm, it is on the top of my todo list but i can't promise that it will be available in the next weeks. The core encoder is the same, but the 4:1:1 color format and the position of blocks/superblocks is different and has to be written.

@communist
Any possibility for a binary? because of patent/license issues i will not publish a binary on my Homepage. Hope you find someone who can compile it for you.

@WorBry
Do you have compiled the source? The file cedocida.dll is not part of the zip-file and will be created if you compile the sourcecode. The installation is the same as by the panasonic-codec. If you can swap this one, it should also work with cedocida-codec.

[WorBry]

I've never compiled anything before, so I think I'll pass on this one. Thanks anyway.

[neuron2]

neuron2 to the rescue! Here's the compiled DLL and an INF file:

http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida015.zip

I tested it just a little but it appears to be working.

[guada 2]

" neuron2 to the rescue! " ( NEURON2 )

Good work "brother" Neuron2

[WorBry]

Thanks Neuron2. First impressions with a few Pal Type II DV test clips - good quality decoding and appears to be free from the slight "color bleed" that I have observed with every other DV software codec bar Matrox and Sony. My main interest is in compressibility on (filtered) conversion to MPEG4 (DivX Fusion, mostly)and VP6. Until now the Sony DV codec has been my preferred decoder but it upsamples to RGB and requires luma shift adjustment after conversion to YUV color space. I'll run some bitrate vs quality metric comparisons with Cedocida as decompressor when I have a moment. Thanks again A.Dittrich and Neuron2. Where would us users be without your inventiveness.

PS - confirmed that Cedocida can swapped with other DV codecs without any problems using VCSwap.

[communist]

First of all thanks for the great codec :)

Works fine here - except YV12-Output via AviSynth. Wether keeping the default or forcing the codec to output YV12 (PAL-DV and both MPEG variants) gives me weird colors. Can anyone confirm this? Adding SwapUV() corrects the problem.

Forcing other colorspaces works fine with AviSynth and Info() reports them as such correctly.

/Edit here (http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s304280/D9/dv_sample.avi) is sample of the file I'm trying to frame-serve

[WorBry]

Communist,
Yes, I can confirm the weird colors (blue hue) you describe when frame serving Pal Type II DV clips loaded in AVISynth as AVISource, but only with the default codec settings. Selecting "force output format" corrects this, irrespective of the selected color space (RGB, YUY2 or YV12).

[cedocida]

Your right, i also can confirm this bug.
As you allready said, it's a color swap of U and V component. It should only affect the YV12 output modes. I will release a fix at the weekend.
Thanks for your reports and to Neuron2 for providing the binary.

[cweb]

How does it compare to the ffdshow DV decoder?

I reencoded something to mpeg2 (avisource was type II dv) for a DVD and the filesize was slightly smaller with this new codec. 1768679 instead of 1770134 KB. The quality looks great on my PC's monitor. I still have to see how it looks on my tv.

[cedocida]

*** released new version 0.1.6 with NTSC support ***
now it's a fully working DV Codec.

Sourcecode available here: Cedocida DV Codec (sourcecode) (http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~dittrich/cedocida/index.html)

changes:
- add: encoding and decoding of NTSC video
- fixed: bug concerning U-V-color-swap of YV12 encoding/decoding

some remarks on "YV12 (DV)" input/output option in combination with NTSC video: this format is direct data to or from the compression algorithm and will not be converted, shifted or interpolated. Because NTSC DV uses a 4:1:1 sampling grid, you will see weird color when viewed with a normal YV12 program which assumes 4:2:0 - this is no bug. If you need YV12 format, use the option "YV12 (MPEG2 *)".

- Andreas -

[neuron2]

Binary is here:

http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida016.zip

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by neuron2
Binary is here:

http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida016.zip What a nice man!

What do you think of this new codec?


Cheers

[neuron2]

Andreas is the guy to praise! I'm making the binaries for myself so why not stick them in my misc dir for everybody?

This NTSC version just came out so I will hold off commenting until I test it. So far, so good, however!

[Longinus]

Hello!
Your codec is really nice, we really needed a good open-source DV Codec..
The only thing I noticied is that it creates more artifacts than the Canopus codec, for instance (even in the high quality mode).

It's just me, or did you noticied it too?

[cweb]

I found the quality to be very good. Thanks to Andreas and to Neuron2 for the compile!
My experience is with PAL, I created a high quality DVD (KDVD actually) from my DV footage. The final filesize was slightly smaller than when I used the ffdshow dv codec, I noticed. I didn't see any more artifacts than with ffdshow - I didn't see any actually.

[Longinus]

It seems my first impressions were a little off. The codec does in fact get more artifacts, BUT it keeps a LOT more detail then the Canopus codec. Just check out this pictures (attached, need to be validated). And cedocida perhaps uses a little more sharpen on the decoder?! The original frame is from a computer generated & huffyuv compressed video.

[Archimedes]

I’ve tested the images with Fritz Framalyzer.

Canopus
ED in RGB: 11,4207
Q in YCbCr: 0,8299

Cedocida
ED in RGB: 12,0344
Q in YCbCr: 0,8291

ED in RGB means Euclidean distance in RGB. Q in YCbCr is based on the SSIM metric.

In all cases, the Canopus Codec has better values.

[bobcat56458]

I have not seen any new posts about Andreas Dittrich’s Cedocida
DV codec for about a month. I am really pleased with the
results I’m getting using this codec. I recently filmed my
Aunts indoor birthday party that had the normal amount of DV
grain in the DV AVI I get when filming indoors with my NTSC
Cannon Optura 10, and Panasonic PV-DV901D DV camcorders
(no matter which DV codec I’m working with). I edited the
material in VideoStudio and Frameserved with Debugmode to an
AVIsynth script I use to remove the grain of indoor video,
and loaded the AVS script into Virtualdub to resave the filtered
video using Fast recompress with the Cedocida DV codec as the
video compression, Direct stream copy for the audio. This
edited\filtered DV AVI I then exported back to the camcorder
as a master of the project. I also encoded that DV AVI as a
2 pass VBR 8000kbps/sec Average bitrate MPEG2 in TMPGEnc
and encoded the audio into a stereo Dolby Digital AC3 soundtrack
using Soft Encode. I then authored a DVD using DVDLab PRO.
The result was the best looking home movie DVD I’ve made so far.
I had no problems with the artifacts mentioned in previous posts,
and the color was right on, & the picture sharp, and clean, when
viewing the DVD on the computer, & TV. I really like the fact
that the Cedocida DV codec has all the parameters you can set
depending on the final video format of your material. I would
like to thank Andreas for his fine work, in making this free open
source DV codec, and encourage him to continue in it’s
development. By the way, I found I could use it as a type 1, or
type 2 DV codec in VideoStudio. I’m including the simple
AVIsynth script I use for frameserving DV indoor filming under
medium lighting, if anyone is interested in using it, (or critiquing it)
it may not be the best denoiser script around, but it sure works
well for me. I can frameserve this ***.avs script using Debugmode
to both VirtualDub, & TMPGEnc from VideoStudio. Does anyone
else have any comments about their results with this codec now
that it’s been around for a while?

LoadPlugin("E:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\UnDot.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Convolution3D.dll")
DirectShowSource("H:\Video Tests 2\Julie project\debugmode.avi")
SeparateFields()
odd=SelectOdd.UnDot()
evn=SelectEven.UnDot()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(0, 12, 20, 12, 16, 6, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(0, 12, 20, 12, 16, 6, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
converttorgb24()

[Longinus]

Hello bobcat56458.

I agree with you... It's a very good codec (I'm using it all the time now)..
I only have some questions about you avisynth script...

Why using directshowsource()? Avisource() should open Debugmod frameserver's avi... and it's faster. And why are you using undot in each field like that... you could just do..

separatefields()
undot()

I don't think undot is a temporal filter (os maybe it is, I'm not sure.. :confused: ). Of course the way you did also works..

[bobcat56458]

Longinus, your right there is no need to use selectodd\selecteven when using undot, as it is a median filter, but doing so does not effect the result of the script. As for the using of Avisource or Directshowsource I did a test with my P4 1800GHz computer with 512MB of RAM, and did not see any speed increase using Avisource. Frameserving from VideoStudio, using Debugmode frameserver, and opening the Avisynth script in VirtualDub. Then doing a Fast recompress with the Cedocida DV codec as the video compression. Both times I averaged about 6~7fps. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one that thinks the Cedocida DV codec has merit, thanks for the undot tip.

[Longinus]

As for the using of Avisource or Directshowsource I did a test with my P4 1800GHz computer with 512MB of RAM, and did not see any speed increase using Avisource.

See, this is why I need to do some benchmarking now and them... I always assume stuff out of nowhere! :D

[joshbm]

What is the FOURCC of this DV codec? It appears it will replace your current DV codec... Can I somehow change the FOURCC so that I can still use it, but not make it the default?

[bobcat56458]

Joshbm, it is a regular "dvsd" fourcc DV codec. I use the program VCSwap which allows me to swap in, and out of different codecs so I can have one active DV codec, and as many inactive DV codecs as I want. Just make sure you make your active DV codec inactive before installing a new DV codec. It also works with other types of codecs as well.

[mat]

Your codec is really nice, we really needed a good open-source DV Codec..
ffmpeg has an opensource DV codec for months...
For windows people, ffdshow should have it.

[vlada]

For windows people, ffdshow should have it.
The DV codec in FFDShow never worked for me. It always created an unusable DV AVI file. The decoder works fine, but the encoder is corrupted.

[Cyberace]

@Andreas Dittrich, thanks for the codec (and for making it open source), any chance you will/can code and submit a patch for it to FFmpeg (link) (http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net)? :rolleyes: either to replace their existing DV codec or improve on it?, ...that way all open source projects that use FFmpeg will automaticly benifit from it, (including; FFdshow, MPlayer, XINE, VLC/VideoLAN, XBMC, etc. ) :D

[o2xygen]

there are problems with Celocida and After Effects
When I import DV footage, there is always a solid blue mask all over.. And the footage is inverted horizontally/vertically (not sure)

[bobcat56458]

I really like the Celocida DV codec but I have one program that I'm having a problem using it with. In VirtualDub (I’ve tried various versions) if I save a file using Full processing mode, and the Celocida DV codec as the compression type, when I play back the saved DV file in a media player the resulting video is corrupt with large color blocks. This problem does not occur using other DV codecs as the compression type. I’m just wondering is anyone having this problem in VirtualDub?

[kingmob]

I'm a bit in the dark about the yv12 chroma sampling option. As i usually create dvd's out of my dv's, i should capture to YV12 right?
So i have interlaced dv content on my cam and want interlaced dvd content in the end. Should i then use "mpeg-2 interlaced"? And is it ok to use "dv" for the encoding part anyway, in case i change my mind and make an xvid for instance?

[Wilbert]

So i have interlaced dv content on my cam and want interlaced dvd content in the end. Should i then use "mpeg-2 interlaced"?
Yup.
And is it ok to use "dv" for the encoding part anyway, in case i change my mind and make an xvid for instance?
Do you mean DV sampling? Also when encoding to XviD it's better to choose "MPEG-2 interlaced" if your source is interlaced.

[q1ra]

When you choose "MPEG-2 Interlaced", do you need to also use ReInterpolate411() before encoding to MPEG-2?

[kingmob]

Thx, for the answers

[henryho_hk]

When you choose "MPEG-2 Interlaced", do you need to also use ReInterpolate411() before encoding to MPEG-2?

No, there appears no need to 411() for NTSC clips or 420() for PAL clips.

[ariga]

When decoding PAL DV with AVISource() in AviSynth, what YV12 sampling should be used if
1) Frameserving to Virtual dub for DivX encoding ?
2) ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=false) and frameserving to CCE ?
3) ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) and frameserving to CCE ?

[neuron2]

It depends on the content.

You can use my AutoYUY2() filter. It will make that decision automatically for you.

http://neuron2.net/autoyuy2/autoyuy2.html

[ariga]

You can use my AutoYUY2() filter. It will make that decision automatically for you.
Thanks. :cool: That's fine in case of 2) and 3) above.
But when I pass YV12 to DivX via VDub ?

[neuron2]

The question makes no sense for number 1. If you pass the YV12 to DivX via VirtualDub and Fast Recompress, there is no conversion and thus nothing to choose.

Perhaps you can clarify your question?

[ariga]

If you pass the YV12 to DivX via VirtualDub and Fast Recompress, there is no conversion and thus nothing to choose.

Perhaps you can clarify your question?
So, DV/MPEG2 chroma sampling option in the decoder settings is applicable when upsampling to YUY2/RGB only ?

[neuron2]

I haven't studied the code, but that's how it should work. I'd be surprised if it wasn't that way.

[ariga]

Yeah, that makes sense. But this seems to suggest otherwise.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=747779#post747779

[bira]

Is it possible to uninstall the cedocida codec? If so, how ?

Thanks!

[henryho_hk]

Is it possible to uninstall the cedocida codec?


rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultUninstall 132 c:\windows\inf\cedocida.inf

[WorBry]

You can also disable Cedocida with VCSwap if you simply wish to avoid conflict with other installed DV codecs. Heres the link:

http://members.chello.nl/~p.bekke/

[bira]

Thanks!

[lq]

Complete newbie here. For some reason I cannot get this DV codec to appear in the list of available video compressors in VirtualDub. I have all the standard ones in there, plus X264.

I need to get source material into DV format for importing into a Roland Edirol device for playback. I feel like I'm so close!! I take the source through an Avisynth script for the necessary manipulations -- I really only need VirtualDub to output the file. Or do I? Any advice would be great. Thanks.

[vlada]

lq> How did you "install" the Cedocida DV codec?

[Fizick]

I try tyhis codec.
It is good, thanks.

But I have some comments:
I like to have YUY2 (not YV12) for decode toAvisynth. But when I use "force" option, and YUY2 switch,
I can not open any DV avi in VirtualdubMod (it accept RGB only).
So, in my opinion, we must have not radio buttons to decode option, but check boxes for enabled video formats (RGB, YUY2, YV12). In this case "force" option box can be omitted.
The same for encode options.
What anybody (and author) think about it?
I can try implement it myself, but I have some other programs to code :)

[Fizick]

More comments (I look to its source a little).

Cedocida DV decoder v0.1.6 always firstly produce raw YV12-DV frame.
If output format is YV12 DV, it directly output this frame.
If output format is not YV12-DV, Cedocida always convert this DV-frame to YUY2. (YUY2 is formed correctly, by averaging, and Reinterpolate420 is not needed).
If output format is YUY2, Cedocida output this YUY2.
If format is RGB, Cedocida converts this YUY2 frame
to RGB and output it. The last conversion is the same as Avisynth function ConverttoRGB().
If format is YV12, Cedocida convert this YUY2 frame to YV12 (interlaced or progressive)and output. The last conversion is the same as Avisynth function ConverttoYV12(interlaced=true or false).
So, output to YV12 produce exactly the same results as output to YUY2 with followed function ConverttoYV12(...).

It is possible to implement direct (one-step) conversion YV12-DV to YV12 normal (MPEG2), with appropriate pixel chroma interpolation . But I am not sure, that the difference will be visible.

[henryho_hk]

Does anyone know how to bring the configuration screen in one command line?

[Fizick]

configuration is stored in cedocida.ini file (windows folder). But in hex format.
You may try save and copy various versions of this file.

[WorBry]

Hi Fizick,

As you've probably noted, there's been some dialogue on this same issue in the 'DV Decoder Differences - Update' thread

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=863039#post863039

Out of interest, if I configure Cedocida with forced output to YV12 (DV) and then apply ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) what will be the YV12 subsample format of the output AVS stream i.e. is the YV12 (DV) subsample format retained or will ConverttoYV12 convert it to YV12 'normal' (MPEG2, interlaced) format? If the latter, then one assumes that conversion via a YUY2 intermediate is avoided, unless of course ConvertToYV12 does the same.

On that note, I wonder if anyone is aware of an AVS filter or ''analyzer'' that can reveal the YV12 sub-sample format of an AVS stream? 'Info' doesnt (afaik) provide this level of analysis.

[henryho_hk]

If Cedocida adopts simple linear interpolation, "DV 4:1:1/4:2:0 Interlaced" -> YUY2 -> "MPEG2 4:2:0 Interlaced" would be equivalent to direct "DV 4:1:1/4:2:0 Interlaced" -> "MPEG2 4:2:0 Interlaced", except for more rounding errors.

[WorBry]

Henry,

Thanks for your input but it does really answer the fundamental question:

If fed with YV12 (DV), what is the output from ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true). Is it:

a) YV12(DV) i.e. unchanged?
or
b) YV12 (MPEG2, interlaced) ?

If b), does ConvertYV12 make the conversion:

c) Directly, with no intermediate involved?
or
d) Via YUY2 or another intermediate that incurs an additional color space conversion step

Since I am not aware of a means of analyzing the YV12 sub-sample format of an AVS output stream, I cannot answer the question myself, hence my inquiry whether such an AVS filter or analyzer exists.

Cheers :)

[henryho_hk]

@WorBry, I was indeed not answering your questions. I was actually responding to Fizick. Let's move to other threads for discussions not directly related to Cedocida.

[WorBry]

Well you can do so if you like, but since my query quite clearly does relate directly to Cedocida and was specifically put to Fizick in response to his post above, which itself refers to ConvertToYV12, I think it is appropriately placed in this thread. If he or someone else with credible insight chooses to respond, then I will have learned something of value. If not, then it is only I who have wasted my time. I must apologize if my post has interrupted your own highly charged exchange of original ideas,:rolleyes:, but I dont see Moderator under your avitar. Thank-you.

[Wilbert]

If fed with YV12 (DV), what is the output from ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
If you open YV12 (DV) in AviSynth and use ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) nothing will happens because the color format is the same (although the chroma positions are different). It becomes a problem if you convert to YUY2 *in* AviSynth, because in that case the wrong placement (that is the wrong coefficients) is used.

As for Fizick's comment:

I see Fizick has looked at the Cedocida source code and concluded that the conversion from YV12 (DV) to YV12 (MPEG2) actually proceeds via a YUY2 intermediate
That might be true (if Fizick checked the source i'm sure it's true). I know for sure that the chroma is correctly reinterpolated.

[WorBry]

Thank-you Wilbert. Now I've learned something.

[Boulder]

If output format is not YV12-DV, Cedocida always convert this DV-frame to YUY2. (YUY2 is formed correctly, by averaging, and Reinterpolate420 is not needed).
If output format is YUY2, Cedocida output this YUY2.
If we talk about PAL DV, should we use scharfis_brain's ReYV12 function to get the YV12 output or is the internal ConverttoYV12(interlaced=true) enough?

That is,
should we a) enable YV12 and MPEG2 interlaced output or b) enable YUY2 output and use ReYV12 in the script?

[WorBry]

I was wondering the same myself, but on checking the ReadMe for ReYV12 it states:

''reverts YUY2 decoded PAL-DV to its native DV-YV12''

I seem to recall some side note that the function was primarily created for re-conversion of processed YUY2 output from the Canopus decoder. Correct Scharfis?

Edit: there it is in the MVBob script notes:

#revert PAL-DV to YV12 for quality reasons; needs yuy2 input (ie. canopus-dv-decoder)

Presumably Cedocida carries out a similar routine to encode DV(YV12) from YUY2 input?

[henryho_hk]

Both ReYV12() and ConvertYV12(interlaced=true) are intended for field-based materials. ReYV12() uses point sampling and picks up the chroma information of even rows (row 0, 1, 2, 3....) of every _field_. For some DV codecs such as Canopus, the discarded chroma info. are simply duplicates. On the other hand, ConvertYV12(interlaced=true) generates the chroma pixels by interpolation according to the defined chroma sample positions in MPEG2/4 4:2:0 Interlaced.

I would say Cedocida's Interlaced MPEG2 YV12 output is appropriate for most purposes. Use ReYV12() when you need original chroma for some specific purposes.

[Jumbie]

Hi guys. Was previously using the Panasonic DV codec but thought I'd give this a try since I end up converting to YV12 in order for some of my filters to work in avisynth.

The thing is that I just tried a short 5-second test capture and when I tried convolution3d on it, an error spit out about how it "supports YV12 only".

How do I change the settings to make my clips get recorded in YV12? Is this possible to do even? My camera is a Sony DCR-PC330.

I've used vcswap.exe to access the configuration settings of Cedocida and checked "force input format" and selected YV12. That didn't seem to help so I did the same for "force output format".

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[WorBry]

Jumbie,

Changing the Cedocida 'input' settings will not affect the outcome because they only influence the DV encoder component of the codec. Certainly, for final rendering to (non-DV) YV12 format (MPEG-4, MPEG-2 etc), "forced" YV12 output with "MPEG2 interlaced" sampling is recommended.

Can’t see why you're getting an error with Convolution3D-YV12 though. Are you sure you have uninstalled or inactivated the Panasonic codec or any other DV codec that could be over-riding Cedocida? Easy enough to do with VCSwap - just drag the codec entry from the active to the inactive window. By the same token, make sure Cedocida is ‘active’.

That’s the only thing I can think of.

[Jumbie]

Hi WorBry. Yeah, I'm pretty positive that I have uninstalled the Panasonic DV codec. I actually did that before finding VCSwap and, upon loading VCSwap, it does not show up.

Here is a screenshot of my currently installed codecs:

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1091/codecbu9.th.gif (http://img121.imageshack.us/my.php?image=codecbu9.gif)

And here is one with my current settings for Cedocida:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4976/settingsqx4.th.gif (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=settingsqx4.gif)

I changed the YV12 chroma sampling to DV cause I figured that's what I'm recording in. I am actually recording straight to a hard drive with WinDV and not using any tapes. So should I change that to MPEG2 interlaced instead as my output will actually be MPEG-4 (using x264)?

What if I record in progressive mode (30p) as my camera has this ability? Does it matter then and should I perhaps change it to MPEG2 noninterlaced (if leaving it in DV is not correct)?

Dunno what's up with Convolution3D. I checked to make sure it was using the YV12 version and I am. Using converttoyv12() lets the script work.

Anyway, thanks for the reply and for clearing up what the "input" settings do. Sorry about all the questions but there's no documentation that I'm aware of and I'm not sure of the proper settings to use. Obviously...

[WorBry]

Well, there's your problem right there. If those are the decoder setiings you're using, then you are outputting (default) YUY2.

Tick the 'Force Output Format' box, select YV12* and, under *YV12 Chroma Sampling, select MPEG-2 Interlaced.

I think the 30fps progessive option you are referring to must be the 'Movie Ex' mode for recording short (jittery) MPEG-1 clips to Memory Stick. Would you really want to use that when you've got DV?

[Jumbie]

Well, there's your problem right there. If those are the decoder setiings you're using, then you are outputting (default) YUY2.

Ooops, I had changed the settings back to default. I believe I had YV12 selected before. I'll try again later when I get the chance. Not home at the moment.

Tick the 'Force Output Format' box, select YV12* and, under *YV12 Chroma Sampling, select MPEG-2 Interlaced.
Will do.

I think the 30fps progessive option you are referring to must be the MPEG-1 ('Movie Ex') mode for recording short (jittery) clips to Memory Stick. Would you really want to use that when you've got DV?

I don't think that's the case. While my camera can indeed record to the memory stick and produce low-quality clips, the manual says this about the progressive mode:

This feature is useful for movies you intend to import to your computer to produce still images.
You can record pictures with less blurring than recording in normal mode, producing pictures suitable for analyzing high-speed action such as sports. To enjoy a movie, it is better to record the picture in normal mode, since the image is recorded only evern 1/30 of a second in the progressive recording mode.

Note on the progressive recording mode
In a normal TV broadcast, the screen is divided into 2 finer fields and these are displayed in turn, every 1/60 of a second. This, the actual picture displayed in an instant covers only half of the apparent picture area. In progressive recording, the picture is fully displayed with all the pixels. A picture recorded in this mode appears clearer, but a moving subject may appear awkward.

Anyway, like I said, I'll try again later and see if changing the settings to force YV12 in output will sort my problems out.

Thanks again.

[Jumbie]

I think I figured it out. I was using DirectShowSource to load my clip instead of AviSource.

When I do an info() command after DirectShow it lists the colourspace as YUY2 but it shows it as YV12 after AviSource. So that's why Convolution3D wasn't working. If I use AviSource, it does. :)

[WorBry]

Well there you go. Still dont understand this 'progressive' mode though. Cant be DV (which is interlaced) and you say it's not MPEG-1. So what is the format?

Also, I'm a bit perplexed that the Cedocida 1.6 dll appears with 3 FourCC entries on your VCSwap screen shot (YV12, dvsd and YUY2), whereas I only see dvsd in mine. Can anyone explain that?

[Jumbie]

Cant be DV (which is interlaced) and you say it's not MPEG-1. So what is the format?

Does DV have to be interlaced by definition? Haven't had the camera long but thought it was just a "progressive DV" format just going 30p instead of 60i.

Also, I'm a bit perplexed that the Cedocida 1.6 dll appears with 3 FourCC entries on your VCSwap screen shot (YV12, dvsd and YUY2), whereas I only see dvsd in mine. Can anyone explain that?

Right click on it and select "Scan Codec for FOURCCs" that's what I did and then activated them.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Does DV have to be interlaced by definition? Haven't had the camera long but thought it was just a "progressive DV" format just going 30p instead of 60i.

No, it doesn't.

The DV specification supports both progressive and interlaced (IEC 61834-4, page 122). The way in which the video frame is compressed is identical, though. e.g., for NTSC, it doesn't matter whether the 720x480 frame is progressive or interlaced - the information is encoded the same way. The DV data stream contains a variety of flags, including progressive vs interlaced. This is really to tell the video hardware how to regenerate the video signal correctly.

[WorBry]

By Jolly-Wingo, you're right. Just encoded a pure 576p25 avi source to DV (Cedocida) and it's lo and behold, its progressive. And there was me thinking all this time that DV has to be interlaced

[bb]

Many people say DV is interlaced, but this is plain wrong. This prejudice probably comes from the fact that most DV camcorders don't have a progressive scan option. Jumbie's camcorder is obviously one of the rare models that support progressive video (mine does, too).

Regarding compression, DV can support interlaced video by using different sizes of macroblocks; besides the standard 8x8 there's the combination of two 4x8 blocks as well ("2-4-8-DCT mode"). And there's the adaptive interfield compression, which treats interlaced frames as progressive frames, if the encoder detects little difference between the two interlaced fields.

The DV specs require the video stream to be compressed in frames, not in fields. This is contrary to MJPEG, where most codecs compress interlaced video on a field basis. Thus I am tempted to say that DV is more a progressive format with an interlaced support addon rather than an interlaced format.

bb

[JohnnyMalaria]

Regarding compression, DV can support interlaced video by using different sizes of macroblocks; besides the standard 8x8 there's the combination of two 4x8 blocks as well ("2-4-8-DCT mode"). And there's the adaptive interfield compression, which treats interlaced frames as progressive frames, if the encoder detects little difference between the two interlaced fields.

The 2-4-8 DCT mode *is* the adaptive interfield compression....(but it isn't compulsory).

[zambelli]

Just curious: have there been any tests done of the Cedocida ENcoder in terms of generational quality loss? How does it compare to MainConcept, Canopus or Panasonic? Is it safe to use it for DV editing projects?

[zambelli]

Just curious: have there been any tests done of the Cedocida ENcoder in terms of generational quality loss? How does it compare to MainConcept, Canopus or Panasonic? Is it safe to use it for DV editing projects?
OK, I can't seem to get PAL 4:2:0 DV encoding to work. Whenever I try to recompress a YV12 Avisynth output to PAL DV with MPEG-2 interlaced input option enabled - the resulting stream has strange flashes, macroblocks and errors. Has anybody been successful in encoding PAL DV with Cedocida?

[Ngr]

I, too had the same problem last week that i tried using it as an alternative to huff. Decoding had no problem.

[zambelli]

I, too had the same problem last week that i tried using it as an alternative to huff. Decoding had no problem.
I tried YUY2 input too to see if it made a difference. It didn't. Is PAL DV encoding entirely broken?

[WorBry]

I had a similar problem encoding a YUY2 (HuffYuv) source to DV with Cedocida, but only in 'High' quality mode. The main aberration was a (seemingly) random lag in block sets from frame to frame. In 'normal' mode it came out OK.

[zambelli]

I had a similar problem encoding a YUY2 (HuffYuv) source to DV with Cedocida, but only in 'High' quality mode. The main aberration was a (seemingly) random lag in block sets from frame to frame. In 'normal' mode it came out OK.
Sounds like there's still some work to be done on Cedocida, at least on the encoder side. Is anyone actively working on its development? I get the feeling there are a ton of people working on, say, x264, but nobody on the only free DV codec - which would certainly be just as useful, if not more.

Anyway, this bug poses an interesting problem: How do I take a DV video, decode it in Avisynth with Cedocida (to take advantage of its 4:2:0 YV12 output), do some necessary filtering, and then re-encode it to DV again with a tested DV codec such as MainConcept? Is there any way to make the two codecs co-exist at the same time?

Obviously, one solution is to output to an intermediate lossless codec such as HuffYUV, and then switch DV codecs and encode to MainConcept - but I'd much rather do it without that middle step if possible.

[bb]

You'd have to register one of the two codecs to use a different four cc - but don't as me how to do that :) (maybe your friends at Microsoft can help you out?).
You may try Cedocida together with the Canopus codec, because Canopus has always used a different four cc that the rest of the world.

bb

[zambelli]

You'd have to register one of the two codecs to use a different four cc - but don't as me how to do that :) (maybe your friends at Microsoft can help you out?).

Yep, I ended up doing exactly that. I modified the Cedocida.inf installer to install MainConcept under a different FourCC. It seems to have worked. I use the AVI FourCC changer utility to switch the FourCC back to 'DVSD' afterwards. I'll post the .inf as soon as I verify it's definitely working correctly.

[zambelli]

Yep, I ended up doing exactly that. I modified the Cedocida.inf installer to install MainConcept under a different FourCC. It seems to have worked. I use the AVI FourCC changer utility to switch the FourCC back to 'DVSD' afterwards. I'll post the .inf as soon as I verify it's definitely working correctly.
OK, rather than posting a full .inf file, I'll just post the registry keys that need to be set in order to install another DV codec under a different FourCC. If you prefer to have an .inf installer, just take Cedocida.inf and modify it.


Windows Registry Editor Version 5.0

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\vidc.dvmc]
"Description"="MainConcept DV Codec"
"Driver"="mcdvd_32.dll"
"FriendlyName"="MainConcept DV Codec"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\drivers.desc]
"mcdvd_32.dll"="MainConcept DV Codec"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Drivers32]
"vidc.dvmc"="mcdvd_32.dll"


In this example MainConcept DV (mcdvd_32.dll) is installed to handle FourCC 'DVMC'.

After encoding, you can use the AVI FourCC Changer (http://www.inmatrix.com/files/avic_download.shtml)utility to change the 4cc back to 'DVSD'.

[zambelli]

@Moderator:

Would it be possible to split this thread into a new Cedocida discussion thread? I think the existing thread is getting low visibility as a sticky.

[cedocida]

I've read your reports about an encoding bug and can reproduce it using the quality mode "high".
I will investigate and try to fix it.
If there are other bugs not mentioned yet, please tell me.

Regards, Andreas

[zambelli]

I've read your reports about an encoding bug and can reproduce it using the quality mode "high".
I will investigate and try to fix it.
If there are other bugs not mentioned yet, please tell me.

Thanks, Andreas. This is the only one I have found so far.

[Fizick]

A. Dittrich,
Other suggestion: may be it will be beter to use checkboxes for enabled video formats instead of radiobuttons with single out format.
(really, I created this code modfication for myself and can provide a sources :) )
I prefer to use YUY2 and RGB switched ON.

[IanB]

Minor point! The configure dialog box is in English but the Cancel button is labeled in German i.e. "Abbrechen"

[zambelli]

Just curious: has anyone done any tests of DV encoder quality here? There's been a lot of talk (as shown in the stickies) about decoder quality, but seems like encoder quality has been largely ignored.

I'm thinking it should be fairly simple to do a DV encoder test. We take a short sample, say 150 frames in length, of both PAL and NTSC type, of both interlaced and progressive type, and we host it somewhere in its native DV form. Then everybody takes their favorite DV codec and re-compresses the source clip, then runs PSNR and SSIM comparison against the source using Avisynth. Because DV is intraframe compression only and the bitrate is constant (25 Mbps), it should be easy to find the best DV encoder by simply comparing PSNR/SSIM scores. Does that sound like a good idea?

[Fizick]

zambelli,
not in this thread

[zambelli]

zambelli,
not in this thread
Agreed. I'll compile some sources for the test and I'll start a new thread.

[zambelli]

I've read your reports about an encoding bug and can reproduce it using the quality mode "high".
I will investigate and try to fix it.
If there are other bugs not mentioned yet, please tell me.

Hi Andreas,
There is a problem in the normal quality encoder too. I noticed it when doing a 90-minute PAL encode. The first hour encoded great, and then suddenly the strange violet-gray blocks started popping up randomly. It's probably the same bug as in the High Quality mode, but just less obvious.

[Serbianboss]

I found very interesting problem about cedocida dv codec.

If in decoder option select: force output format and chose yuy2 we cannot load dv avi file in virtual dub or cce.

But if we make simple avisynth script:

AVISource("C:\Documents and Settings\Desktop\some movie.avi")


We can load dv avi in virtual dub and cce.

So, we cannont load dv avi file,but we can load if we make simple avisynth script.

What can be this?

[Fizick]

Serbianboss,
Currently you must select rgb to work with virualdub.
that is why I suggest to change radiobutton to checkboxes with many enabled options (yuy2 and rgb).

[Serbianboss]

One question for YV12 in cedocida codec.

IF we want YV12 from cedocida does is better to stay all at default(no select force output format,be default its select yuy2 but its yv12 for pal) or we must select output format and chose yv12.

I mean what is differences in both case i got yv12.

[IanB]

It is not the codec that chooses the output format. It is the application you are using. This is why there is an option to limit the acceptable formats to 1 only. This is so you can know that it is exactly using the format you want and expect. Everything else fails, so you can then itterate and correct the issue.

AviSynth's AviSource always tries YV12, then YUY2, then RGB32, then finally RGB24, unless of course, you force the Pixel_Type.

Other application have other priorities and needs, so do things in different ways. E.g. VirtualDub prefers RGB32 normally but in fast recompress mode prefers YUY2.

So unless you have a reason to force a format leave it in the default mode and let your application do what it knows best.

[Serbianboss]

I force because CCE like YUY2. And i can got only if i forced yuy2. Be default(when not selected force option) i get YV12 which is good for virtual dub but not for cce. I mostly use avisynth filters which want YUY2 not yv12.

So, me goal is to get yuy2.That's i asked what is difference if i select force output and chose yuy2 or if i chose yv12. In both case i got yuy2.

[Fizick]

try-out version 0.17 with color format checkboxes:


LINK REMOVED

[IanB]

It is not the codec that chooses the output format. It is the application you are using.The rule YV12 -> YUY2 -> RGB32 -> RGB24 applies only to AviSynth's AviSource()! Other applications have other rules that suit their needs.

AviSynth's DirectShowSource() accepts the very first format of {RGB24, RGB32, ARGB, YUY2 and YV12} offered by DirectShow. It does not try before it buys ;)

When using AviSynth's AviSource() or DirectShowSource(), the easiest way to get a codec to decode into the format of your choice is to set Pixel_Type="..." appropriatly. Doing this will cause ...Source() to negotiate for the chosen format only and throw an error if the codec cannot provide this format. i.e. 1. Asking the Panasonic codec for anything other than RGB24 will always fail. 2. Asking Cedocida when it is in forced output mode for any other format will likewise fail.

For other applications that do not have a "Pixel_Type" functionality then you must use the option in Cedocida to only connect with the forced format. Of course the application has to be willing to work with the forced format. i.e. Old TMPGEnc versions will only work with RGB24.if i select force output and chose yuy2 or if i chose yv12. In both case i got yuy2.For NTSC there is no YV12 output, so YUY2 appears to be subtituted, this is probably a bug.

[Serbianboss]

@Fizick

Any other server for download, this is so slow,so i cant download file.

thanks

[Fizick]

Unfortunately all drives of RapidShare.de are full right now.

[Wilbert]

<link removed on request by Fizick (because of version numbering problems)>

should be a bit faster i think :)

[Serbianboss]

This server is lot better.Thanks

@Fizick

Did you change the code of cedocida? I see that you make boxes instead radio buttons.

I found interesting things.

1. When in decoder option i select RGB,YUY2 and YV12(all option is selected when press default button) my dv avi files are in YV12 colorspace. And dv avi can load in virtual dub

2. But, when in decoder option i just select YUY2, my dv avi files are in YUY2 color space. But problem stay the same. Virtual dub cannot load dv avi files, but it can load if we make simple avisynth script.

[Fizick]

Serbianboss,
select yuy2 and rgb :)

[Serbianboss]

That's work

Just to ask. When is selected RGB and YUY2 now i can load Dv avi in virtual dub.
I am now interesting how in virtual dub sais that my source is yuy2 when i checked yuy2 and rgb colorspace.

Here is picture:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8682/untitledab1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I mean everything for now working ok, but i am interesting about this.

2. One more question: When load simple avisynth script


AVISource("C:\\Desktop\dv avi movie.avi")
info()


in virtual dub said that my Decompressor is YUV 4:2:2 and my FourCC is also YUV 4:2:2. Is that Ok or no? I am in pal country shuldnt be 4:2:0 ?

thanks

[Serbianboss]

any comment about this

[Wilbert]

If you don't select YV12 in 'Enabled output formats' it won't output its native color format YV12 (for PAL).



AVISource("C:\\Desktop\dv avi movie.avi")
info()

in virtual dub said that my Decompressor is YUV 4:2:2 and my FourCC is also YUV 4:2:2. Is that Ok or no? I am in pal country shuldnt be 4:2:0 ?
Yes, that's ok. As you can see in IanB's post, from the enabled formats, AviSynth tries to get YUY2 first from the decoder (and if that's not possible it receives RGB).

Just to ask. When is selected RGB and YUY2 now i can load Dv avi in virtual dub.
I am now interesting how in virtual dub sais that my source is yuy2 when i checked yuy2 and rgb colorspace.
Because (1) YV12 is not enabled in the decoder and (2) you selected 'fast recompress' (that's a hunch, so correct me if i'm wrong) in VDub. If you select 'full processing mode' in VDub, the DV decoder should give you RGB stuff.

[Serbianboss]

Thanks for answer.

You are right. When in virtual dub is selected full compression it output RGB,when is fast recompress it output YUY2.

This is for virtual dub, but what you think for CCE. When in cedocida decoder is selected YUY2 and RGB what colorspace then output CCE ?

[cedocida]

Hi Andreas,
There is a problem in the normal quality encoder too. I noticed it when doing a 90-minute PAL encode. The first hour encoded great, and then suddenly the strange violet-gray blocks started popping up randomly. It's probably the same bug as in the High Quality mode, but just less obvious.

Currently I am working on bug-fixing and concerning the issue with the corrupt blocks using high quality mode, I can reproduce it and I do understand the reason for it.
The problem with normal quality mode, reported above, needs further investigation. For that, @zambelli:
can you upload the frames where the encoder produces this strange blocks?

@Fizick - your suggestion about the GUI:
Thank you for your suggestions. At the moment I want to concentrate only on bug fixing and most probable I will not touch the GUI in the future. Anyhow your modifications are welcome - the project therefore is open source.

Regards,
Andreas

[stegre]

A. Dittrich -

If I'm not mistaken, I think there is a significant bug in the DV file structure produced by cedocida. I was working on bugs in GSpot's handling of DV, some of which led me with questions which remain frustratingly unresolved (I may post a separate thread to see if I can get some help here on those issues). Meanwhile, in trying to resolve those, I compiled your encoder figuring it would be useful to be able to create various test files, especially by having the encoder source to modify for experiments.

In so doing, however, I was surprised to see that GSpot was rejecting the stock cedocida files altogether (though they do seem to play fine, somewhat surprisingly to me).

Anyway, to get to the point, see screenshot below, with table from SMPTE-314M, which I'm sure is the same as its counterpart in IEC 61834. The VS and VSC pack data is supposed to go in frames 0 and 1 on odd DIF sequences, and 39 and 40 on even ones. I believe your code is putting them in completely the wrong place on the odd sequences (like sequences 29 and 30, or 30 and 31, or something), probably overwriting something that should be there - and leaving it missing from where it should be. I tracked it down to the line below in your source (encode.cpp, line 335 in the 0.1.6 source I have). I think a correct fix is just to change the single multiplier as shown below. Please let me know if you concur, or perhaps I'm off-track somehow.

http://ftyps.com/unrelated/cedocida.png

[cedocida]

@stegre:
yes, you are right in both: finding and solving the bug.
It is now fixed in the

*** released new version 0.1.7 ***

available here (source code only):
www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~dittrich/cedocida (http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~dittrich/cedocida/index.html)

changes:
- Fixed: bug in encoding/decoding right border of interlaced ntsc video
- Fixed: bug in encoding if frame activity is too high
- Fixed: bug in DIF-Header, wrong position of video-packets
- Fixed: minor bugs in GUI

[neuron2]

I will update my hosting with the new binary tonight at neuron2.net.

[neuron2]

Version 0.1.7 binary now available here:

http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida017.zip

[DSP8000]

Tnx. for the new binary neuron2 ;) .

The read me file included it is a bit confusing for me :o ,
For multiple edit of PAL DV video which options in in/output should we choose?

Example:
1.Transfer DV from cam,
2.Edit in any NLE,
3.Export the timeline to Cedocida codec.

Now, what options should we choose in the enc/decoder in order to avoid colorspace conversion & get proper sampling of the video?

Most of the NLE apps do internal upconversion to 4:4:4 when we apply transitions, color corrections, video filters, etc...
Most of them require RGB input.

My questions are these:
1.For encoding to MPEG2 interlaced what do we choose in the codec options enc/dec?
2.For encoding to Cedocida codec for multiple edit or transfer what do we choose in the codec options enc/dec?
3.For proper decoding of PAL DV video what do we choose in the codec options enc/dec?

DSP8000

[neuron2]

Give all credit to Andreas! It's not hard for me to make a binary. :)

I'll defer to Andreas for the technical questions on his work.

[stegre]

Well, thx to all. File structure looks perfect now.

[Chainmax]

I've been doing some DV-to-DVD conversions lately. Most of the source footage I get is deinterlaced PAL, but I'd like to know what are the Cedocida recommended settings use on all cases as I've seen some stairstepping on reds and I might have to deal with interlaced/progressive PAL/NTSC footage soon anyway. The reason I ask is because sifting through this thread hasn't revealed e settings a majority agrees upon.

[Fizick]

now we have two v0.1.7 versions. Sorry

[Chainmax]

I have the one neuron2 released.

[neuron2]

now we have two v0.1.7 versions. Sorry My policy here is to use Andreas' version numbering because I am just building his source (except for correcting one misspelling on the GUI, which I'm sure he won't object to). If you make a derived version with new functionality, you should rename it, e.g., like TDecimate(). Maybe yours could be Fcedocida, or something like that.

[Fizick]

I hoped that my suggestions be accepted.
I will built some modded version for private using.

Wilbert,
please remove link to my v0.1.7 in your post above to prevent mess.

[Serbianboss]

I think that is better way that we could in decoder option to check more colorspace option(for example yuy2 and rgb) instead just one

[Serbianboss]

I found some bug.

If we set SetMTmode(2) at begining of script and using cedocida dv codec and if we want to preview in virtual dub or in avsp i had this:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5307/untitledrr9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

But if using other dv codec(panasonic) everything is ok.

[kxproject]

I really like the Celocida DV codec but I have one program that I'm having a problem using it with. In VirtualDub (I’ve tried various versions) if I save a file using Full processing mode, and the Celocida DV codec as the compression type, when I play back the saved DV file in a media player the resulting video is corrupt with large color blocks. This problem does not occur using other DV codecs as the compression type. I’m just wondering is anyone having this problem in VirtualDub?

i have the same problem, i have a green bar at the bottom

[cedocida]

@kxproject
Does this happen with the current version 0.1.7?

[kxproject]

@kxproject
Does this happen with the current version 0.1.7?

Yes, both with 0.1.7 and 0.1.6. I had to convert the colorspace to yv12 in avithynth in order to get rid of that green line at the bottom, so it was not the problem specific to cedocida. The same line appeared also with main concept dv codec until i made this conversion. So i really don't know what the cause of the problem. The video file was the usual dv file created by panasonic gs-400 camera. It was rendered as uncompressed in sony vegas after some changing of brightness and contrast and the uncompressed file was opened in Vdubmod via avisynth, converted to yuy2 for applying greedyhma which requires yuy2 and then saved from vdmod in the direct stream copy mode. The options in the cedocida were input = yuy2, output = yuy2.
By the way has anyone compared cedocida with matrox soft dv codec and canopus soft dv codecs? I don't have them but some people swear they are the best.

[Fizick]

It seems, Cedocida encoder not properly processes thin color horizontal lines in PAL mode (NTSC normal).
http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=29:22850-6#169
May be wrong YUY2 to yuv420 internal conversion ?

[cedocida]

@Fizick:
Can you give a short summary of this issue in english (or german), so if this is really a bug, we can fix it.
Thx in advance!

[Fizick]

KruFFT is still waiting 5 days to post to doom9 forum.
Here is my analisys:
Cedocida does not filter PAL chroma YUY2 source vertically before conversion to YUV420.
So, colors of some thin lines are simple discarded, see pictures at russian forum.

It may be fixed with avisynth pre-filter script:


function PreFilter420(clip clipYUY2) {
# YUY2 chroma preliminary lowpass filter for PAL Cedocida DV encoder (v0.16, 0.17)
# Fizick, 2007
SeparateFields(clipYUY2)
u=UtoY().Blur(0,1)
v=VtoY().Blur(0,1)
MergeChroma(last,YtoUV(u,v))
weave
}

ImageSource ("post0000.png",fps=25)
addborders(0,0,440,396)
converttoyuy2()
prefilter420()


Blur(0,1) is vertical filter 1/4, 1/2, 1/4 for same fields chroma lines.

[krieger2005]

A short extension:
1. The first picture is the original source
2. The second picture demonstrate Cedocida
3. The third one MainConcept DV

A next test: http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=29:22850-6#175
left Picture: original
center: MainConcept
right Cedocida
Picture is zoomed 4-times

[morsa]

Wouldn't sound like a next logical step to add DV50 and DV100 to Cedocida?

I read SMPTE 370M, and it doesn't seem a lot different.

http://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/standards/pdf/s370m.pdf

[piscator]

I recently upgraded to Windows x64 and the installation of the codec does not work.

Steps:
1) I used the 017 version from neuron2's site.
2) Unpacked and clicked the inf.
3) Got the usual message that it was not a verified driver or some such thing. Pressed continue to proceed.
4) Looked with VCSwap and the codec does not show up (and obviously no dvds content can be played back).

Remarks:
* Got no error messages whatssoever.
* the dll and the inf file are installed in C:\Windows\System32 and C:\Windows\Inf
* I'm not sure but I think i used to have 2 dialogs during driver installs. Now, it just was the message with verified/signed drivers.
* I had it working before on a 32-bit Windows.

So, any ideas how I might get it to work?

thx,
Piscator

[cedocida]

Most probable this is because of the inf file which is not ready for x64 systems.
As long as no update for the inf file is available, you can try this workarround (see http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/driver/install/64INF_reqs.mspx):

Turn off the undecorated models check for AMD64. To turn off the undecorated models check for AMD64-based systems only, create the following non-zero numeric registry value:

HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup:
REG_DWORD: DisableDecoratedModelsRequirement

Set the key to a non-zero value (such as 1) and restart the system, then install the driver.

[piscator]

Always charming those hidden registry options. It would have even be more charming if it would have worked...

Anyway, I dug a bit deeper.
When I go to Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices/Hardware/Video Codecs and properties. It shows the cedocida codec. However, status = "Driver is enabled but not functioning properly". It also shows two radio buttons but with no text.

Against knowing better, I tried to change the INF file and decorated it (as in the article). But I get the feeling that the following part of the article cannot be ignored...
Ensure that drivers and installation routines developed for x64- and Itanium-based systems include 64-bit kernel-mode drivers and 64-bit class installers and coinstallers, as described in this article and in the Windows DDK.

So I guess I'm at a loss for the moment...

greetz,
Piscator

[piscator]

Found a solution! :-) The following inf file I got from http://forum.videohelp.com/topic316263.html#1622413 did the trick.


; Cedocida DV Codec install file - 15dec06
; Usage: right-click on this file and choose "Install"
; For 32-bit codec on WindowsXP 64-bit Edition

[version]
signature="$Windows NT$"
Class = MEDIA

[DefaultInstall]
CopyFiles=DVR.Files.Inf,DVR.Files.Dll
AddReg=DVR.Add.Reg

[DefaultUnInstall]
DelFiles=DVR.Files.Dll,DVR.Files.Inf,DVR.Files.Ini
DelReg=DVR.Del.Reg

[SourceDisksNames]
1="Cedocida DV Codec","",1

[SourceDisksFiles]
cedocida_x6432.inf=1
cedocida.dll=1

[DestinationDirs]
DVR.Files.Inf=17
DVR.Files.Dll=16425
DVR.Files.Ini=25

[DVR.Files.Inf]
cedocida_x6432.inf

[DVR.Files.Dll]
cedocida.dll

[DVR.Files.Ini]
cedocida.ini

[DVR.Add.Reg]
HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\vidc.dvsd,Description,,"Cedocida DV Codec"
HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\vidc.dvsd,Driver,,"cedocida.dll"
HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\vidc.dvsd,FriendlyName,,"Cedocida DV Codec"
HKLM,"Software\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\drivers.desc",cedocida.dll,,"Cedocida DV Codec"
HKLM,"Software\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Drivers32",vidc.dvsd,,"cedocida.dll"

HKLM,Software\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Cedocida,DisplayName,,"Cedocida DV Codec 32-bit (Remove Only)"
HKLM,Software\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Cedocida,UninstallString,,"%16425%\rundll32.exe setupapi,InstallHinfSection DefaultUninstall 132 %17%\cedocida_x6432.inf"

[DVR.Del.Reg]
HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\vidc.dvsd
HKLM,"Software\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\drivers.desc","cedocida.dll",,""
HKLM,"Software\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\drivers32","vidc.dvsd",,""

HKLM,Software\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Cedocida

[zambelli]

Hi Andreas,
There is a problem in the normal quality encoder too. I noticed it when doing a 90-minute PAL encode. The first hour encoded great, and then suddenly the strange violet-gray blocks started popping up randomly. It's probably the same bug as in the High Quality mode, but just less obvious.
I've run into another encoding bug, this time in "Normal quality" NTSC mode. Build v0.1.7 from neuron2.

Is anybody else seeing issues in the encoder? Or is nobody using Cedocida for encoding?

[cedocida]

I've run into another encoding bug, this time in "Normal quality" NTSC mode. Build v0.1.7 from neuron2.

Is anybody else seeing issues in the encoder? Or is nobody using Cedocida for encoding?

I am interested in fixing this bug. As there is now a new version out (see update of the first post here) with some bigger changes can you check again and/or post a scenario for reproducing this issue?

Regards, Andreas

[cedocida]

Other suggestion: may be it will be beter to use checkboxes for enabled video formats instead of radiobuttons with single out format.
(really, I created this code modfication for myself and can provide a sources :) )
I prefer to use YUY2 and RGB switched ON.
Fizick, thanks again for your suggestion (from last year). The latest version 0.2.0 now uses checkboxes for enabling the color formats.

[neuron2]

The build is here (temporarily):

http://neuron2.net/guest/cedocida020.zip

I'll update my web site link tonight.

[zambelli]

I am interested in fixing this bug. As there is now a new version out (see update of the first post here) with some bigger changes can you check again and/or post a scenario for reproducing this issue?

Thanks, Andreas. I'll try this out sometime this week. If I find encoding errors again, I'll upload some samples.

[plane]

I want to know why the older build of 0.17 got a Encoder High quality option while the recent 0.17 and 2.0 the highest option available is just Normal quality.

[cedocida]

I want to know why the older build of 0.17 got a Encoder High quality option while the recent 0.17 and 2.0 the highest option available is just Normal quality.
The old options were mainly used (by me) to test different strategies and comparing encoding speed vs. quality. As it turned out that the old option for the best quality was faster than the old normal option, I decided to rename the old best quality option to "normal" and drop the other options, but not the fast option which is faster but worse in quality.
So, with the "just Normal quality" in 0.1.7/0.2.0 you get the same high quality as in build 0.1.6.

[Fizick]

cedocida (you change a nick?),

What about my other suggestion: internal low pass prefilter (as an option) ?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=942582#post942582

[zambelli]

Thanks, Andreas. I'll try this out sometime this week. If I find encoding errors again, I'll upload some samples.
Andreas: great work! I did a full 90-minute NTSC DV encode and found no obvious errors like when I tried it in 0.1.7.

Also, I re-ran some of the DV quality tests I set up in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=908769) with the 0.2.0 build. Here are the scores:

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| | Ovrl PSNR | Min PSNR | Max PSNR | Notes |
| NTSC Interlaced: |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Cedocida v0.1.6 (VfW) | 49.3498 | 43.7395 | 55.0623 | YUY2, normal quality |
| Cedocida v0.2.0 (VfW) | 48.5104 | 42.1597 | 54.9393 | YUY2, normal quality |
| | | | | |
| NTSC Progressive: |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Cedocida v0.1.6 (VfW) | 49.8454 | 45.3902 | 53.4945 | YUY2, normal quality |
| Cedocida v0.2.0 (VfW) | 50.2529 | 46.5008 | 53.4981 | YUY2, normal quality |
| | | | | |
| PAL Interlaced: |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Cedocida v0.1.6 (VfW) | 46.1306 | 40.3453 | 54.7958 | YUY2, normal quality |
| Cedocida v0.2.0 (VfW) | 44.9788 | 39.3087 | 54.7926 | YUY2, normal quality |
| | | | | |
| PAL Progressive: |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Cedocida v0.1.6 (VfW) | 46.8568 | 41.5192 | 54.0270 | YUY2, normal quality |
| Cedocida v0.2.0 (VfW) | 47.8274 | 42.9472 | 54.0785 | YUY2, normal quality |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the interlaced scores went down a bit, but the progressive scores improved. Overall, if you consider the MainConcept and Microsoft DV scores in the thread I linked, Cedocida is still the best DV codec with the least generational quality loss. Awesome work! :thanks:

[cedocida]

What about my other suggestion: internal low pass prefilter (as an option) ?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=942582#post942582

I guess you mean this:
Cedocida does not filter PAL chroma YUY2 source vertically before conversion to YUV420.
So, colors of some thin lines are simple discarded, see pictures at russian forum.
What is currently done in the cedocida encoder in case of YUY2 is exactly that, what is described in the specification (for color components: take the even (or odd) lines and drop the other ones). Of course this is not optimal as you get aliasing in case of sources which are not proper bandlimited. But if your source is originated from a DV cam, it allows you to not degrade the video in case of recompression (neglecting quantization).
Another point is interlacing. In this case, vertical linear filtering on fields is not appropriate, because there is allready aliasing, which is OK here. Low pass filtering can have some negative effects then.

[rcubed]

Hi,
I've been trying versions 0.1.7 and 0.2.0. With the defaults set, 0.1.7 will supply AVI captured with the Panasonic codec to Avisynth filters just fine as YV12. With the defaults set in 0.2.0 the process abends with no error indications. It appears to have something to do with the MPEG options being selected. Any ideas where to start? I'm interested in replacing the Panasonic codec. 0.2.0 seemed to capture ok if the default input/output options.

If YV12 is selected in the Decoder part of the Configure, and anything other than DV is selected for YV12 Chroma Sampling it will abend. If you try to use Gspot on the AVS script, Gspot will terminate if you attempt to render the stream. For the same options selected in 0.1.7 Gspot will open and render the AVS input. The same if the AVS is used as an input to VirtualDUb Mod.

The AVS script is as follows:

AVISource("H:\Test.avi")
KillAudio()
Info()

Thanks,

rcubed

[juhok]

I think I have same problem as rcubed (altho I don't know what 'abend' means).

After updating from 0.1.7 to 0.2.0 (WinXP 32bit) and opening DV-AVIs (PAL) thru AVISource(""), VirtualDub and MPC just exit without any message when trying to open the avs script.

When opening the same AVIs directly with said programs, there's no problem. Only when using Avisynth (version 2.57 build Dec 31 2006[13:16:28).

I tried re-installing the codec with default settings but the problem still remains.

[cedocida]

I can confirm that there is a bug in version 0.2.0.
Please use the older version 0.1.7 as long as this is not fixed.
I'm working at it with highest priority and will try to release an update as soon as possible!

EDIT: As it turned out that the crash was due to issues building the binary, version 0.2.0 seems to be OK and no fix is needed at the moment!

[neuron2]

I put up a new build at http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida020.zip. I had built it before on my work laptop and I think there may be a problem in the build environment there. Please try this one and if it is still not OK, please advise here.

EDIT: Never mind. I just duplicated the issue. I can open the AVI directly but not through an AVS script. I am working with cedocida to resolve it.

[neuron2]

Please get the newest build from the link above. It's working for me through an AVS script now.

[juhok]

Yup, now it works. :thanks:

[rcubed]

Neuron2,
Thanks very much for your efforts. The latest file fixed the problem.:thanks:

I think I have same problem as rcubed (altho I don't know what 'abend' means).

Sorry, old main frame jargon from the 60s and 70s. Abend was short for abnormal end, anytime a program quit running unexpectedly. When launched, the VitrualDub Mod Window would open very briefly, then close. On my machine it was happening so fast one couldn't read anything VirtualDub Mod might have shown.

It now renders in Gspot, and the proper YV12 format is shown as the source, and the avs script works with VirtualDub Mod.

Again thanks very much Neuron2!!!!!! I'll leave it to you to do the compiles of the source. I tried downloading VC++ 2005 Express and NASM, but got tangled around the axle trying to compile and it was a real disaster on my part. I really appreciate the time you take to make it easier on us compiler handicapped :) I'm switching over from the Panasonic codec.

rcubed

[neuron2]

The problem was that I needed SP1 installed for Visual Studio 2005 Express. I don't know why Auto Updates never informed me about that. :mad:

I suppose this will fix the problems I've had with compiling libavcodec as well for DGAVCDec. Off to experiment...

[zambelli]

What is currently done in the cedocida encoder in case of YUY2 is exactly that, what is described in the specification (for color components: take the even (or odd) lines and drop the other ones). Of course this is not optimal as you get aliasing in case of sources which are not proper bandlimited. But if your source is originated from a DV cam, it allows you to not degrade the video in case of recompression (neglecting quantization).
Another point is interlacing. In this case, vertical linear filtering on fields is not appropriate, because there is allready aliasing, which is OK here. Low pass filtering can have some negative effects then.
Since both projects are open source, could Avisynth's ConvertToYV12() code be borrowed to improve on this?

What about the YUV 4:2:2 conversion to YUV 4:1:1 (NTSC)? How is that handled?

[cedocida]

Since both projects are open source, could Avisynth's ConvertToYV12() code be borrowed to improve on this?
Sure you can "borrow" code - there are already parts of Avisynth and Xvid used.
Concerning ConvertToYV12(), this can not be used without modification because the DV specific YUV420 (PAL only) needs the chroma sampled at different positions.

The question was - as I understand this correct - if we should apply a vertical lowpass before sampling (or maybe as an option).
My arguments for not doing so are (although lowpass filtering before sampling is mandatory to avoid aliasing if the signal is not bandlimited)
1.) avoid generation loss (bluring of color in the vertical direction)
2.) assume, that most videos from the cam (natural images) are already filtered, i.e. chroma is bandlimited.
3.) vertical filtering of fields is problematic
4.) in case of artificial video, preprocessing with e.g. Avisynth can be done and is more powerfull

What about the YUV 4:2:2 conversion to YUV 4:1:1 (NTSC)? How is that handled?
Here, there is no vertical subsampling neither for luma nor for chroma. Chroma is subsampled by 4 in the horizontal direction only.

[bitwerks]

Thanks Andreas for a great tool.

Thanks to everyone for a great thread. I am not new to digital video but I am a noob when it comes to converting from MiniDV cameras. I learned much reading this thread!

Bitwerks

[yup]

Hi cedocida!
I planing use Your encoder for transfer from one programm to other. I capturing use VirtualDub and Huffyuv codec, denoising use Avisynth and my friend use Pinnacle Studio for authoring DVD which need DV AVI. My capturing source TFF and DV ordinary BFF. I need change field polarity or Your codec make this?

With kind regards yup.

[cedocida]

I need change field polarity or Your codec make this?

The codec will not change any field polarity - it will encode the frame as it is. Therefore it is highly recommended to only encode frames which are BFF as this is what most software expect from DV encoded video. Additional the codec sets the flags indicating the field order allways to BFF.

[bb]

The codec will not change any field polarity - it will encode the frame as it is.[...]

[...]I need change field polarity or Your codec make this?[...]

You are talking about field parity here, aren't you?

bb

[cedocida]

You are talking about field parity here, aren't you?
bb

Yes you are right, my comments are about the time order of the fields in an encoded frame, i.e. top-field-first or bottom-field-first.
Thus "field parity" is the correct term. I guess "field dominance" or "field order" is correct too.

[bb]

Yes, that's correct. Don't confuse these terms with "field swapping", though, because that's something different...

;)

bb

[Fizick]

Some suggestion (not my) for more options:
http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=attach:29:22850:217:1

[scharfis_brain]

I have some major problems with the CedoCida-DV-encoder.

It encodes false blocks into the video. These blocks are looking like a dropout of a DV-Tape.

I found out that it has to be CedoCida to produce the false blocks, cause all other DV-Coders will display the same fals blocks with cedocida-encoded video, while DV-Videos from other encoders like ffdshow, mainconcept or sony will have no false blocks.

Is this issue known?

I am encoding PAL-Video in pure YV12 using AVISynth and Virtualdub.

[cedocida]

I found out that it has to be CedoCida to produce the false blocks, cause all other DV-Coders will display the same fals blocks with cedocida-encoded video, while DV-Videos from other encoders like ffdshow, mainconcept or sony will have no false blocks.

Is this issue known?

I know about an encoding Bug in older versions, in cases where picture activity is very high. But this should be fixed since version 0.1.7.
Please provide the source frame which results in the false blocks, so I can have a look at it.

[Mtz]

What version is recommended to be used? 0.1.7 or 0.2.0?

enjoy,
Mtz

[cedocida]

What version is recommended to be used? 0.1.7 or 0.2.0?
In the latest version 0.2.0 there are some serious Bugs fixed and the decoding core was upgraded. Also further development will based on 0.2.0, i.e. if someone reports about a problem, I will have a look!

@scharfis_brain
Can you please clarify about the false blocks issue in the encoder!

[mikeytown2]

I have a problem with this Codec and my DV camera (cedocida codec crashes). Here is a 10 second clip from my cam (36mb)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/9tqgdg Type 2 AVI

Works without cedocida 0.2.0 installed. Right now i am using DirectShowSource without the codec installed in my AVISynth Scripts; but being able to use AviSource would be very helpful!

I get the same problem when i use WinDV or DVApp as the firewire control. I've tried multiple Type 1 to Type 2 converters as well. The camera is about 10 years old.

Thanks for the help!

[cedocida]

I have no problems in decoding this clip with cedocida 0.2.0 (latest binary from neuron2) within Virtualdub or Avisynth.

Which application do you use? Can you describe in detail your steps in order to reproduce the crash.
Does it also crashes if you use the older version 0.1.7?

>I get the same problem when i use WinDV or DVApp as the firewire control.
What do you mean with "same problem"? A crash of the application if cedocida is installed?

[mikeytown2]

I have no problems in decoding this clip with cedocida 0.2.0 (latest binary from neuron2) within Virtualdub or Avisynth.

Which application do you use? Can you describe in detail your steps in order to reproduce the crash.
Does it also crashes if you use the older version 0.1.7?

>I get the same problem when i use WinDV or DVApp as the firewire control.
What do you mean with "same problem"? A crash of the application if cedocida is installed?

Whenever i put the AVI File in an AviSynth Script. The Script crashes in Vdub, MPC, AvsPAVISource("dv-PanasonicPV-DV910-MSDV(AVI2).avi")The app closes without any error msg.

Steps:

Get Avi file from DV cam via firewire
right click install cedocida codec
make avs script
Try to open script in any video app.


I have tried Avisynth 2.5.7 and 2.5.8 alpha 2. The problem is your codec in conjection with Avisynth on my computer.

Version 0.1.7 does work. I got the binary from here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=925625#post925625
Currently using 2.5.8 A2

Version 0.2.0 binary i got from here
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Cedocida_DV_Codec


For now i will use 0.1.7. Thanks for your suggestion, old version works great!

[cedocida]

@mikeytown2: Thanks for your explanations.
Now I can reproduce the crash.
It happens only with the binary from videohelp.com, but not with that from neuron2 (see the link(s) at the first message of this thread for a stable build).
I guess the binary from videohelp.com was build with Visualstudio 2005 but not with latest Service Pack. We discovered the same behaviour a short time after the release of version 0.2.0. After rebuilding the sourcecode with VS2005+Service Pack 1, all was fine.

[mikeytown2]

Thanks for the info! I'll get 0.2.0 from here
http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida020.zip

[sander815]

when i install this codec, i get the following error:avisource: could not decompress frame 0
i am using YUY2 DV as inout
whats wrong

[sander815]

i am running win2003 on 2 pcs here, and get the same error on both of them:
gspot: VFW DVSD Cedocida DV codec (SD format) v0.2.0 vidc.dvsd 0x00200000 ** File Missing: cedocida.dll

but cedocida.dll is present in system32

[Dopopopolis]

error:avisource: could not decompress frame 0

Ive seen that before when i tried to load an unsupported colorspace into virtualdub. Actually i loaded an .avs into it, and apparently it was avisynth that didnt support it.

also, 0x00200000 = DO_NOT_USE

Im not telling you to not use it, im pointing out that the merit is set at DO_NOT_USE. I noticed that this was the default, which is odd, and needs to be changed, but you should manually change it. If your colorspace is supported, this is probably why nothings working.

[tartak]

I posted (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1399511#post1399511)a cedocida mod - the only new feature is selection of the aspect ratio flag for encode, 4:3 vs 16:9.

[WorBry]

Actually I've been using a (pre-release 0.211) build, kindly provided by Cedocida, that includes a 4:3/16:9 flag option for decoding and encoding. Works perfectly. I can make it available, if Cedocida is OK with that, unless of course he still intends to release an official update.

[cedocida]

Dear WorBry, tartak,
many thanks for your contribution.

In order to avoid version confusion of the Cedocida DV codec, I guess it is the best to just upload here my latest sources and binaries, i.e. version 0.2.2.
It is the same I sent to WorBry some time ago, but with a different folder layout.

The biggest changes (compared to version 0.2.0) are as follows:
- fully support of 64bit operating systems
- fixed generation loss in color due to yuv422-to-yuv411 subsampling
- fixed rgb-to-yuv colorshift
- added means for setting the "16:9" flag in encoder and GUI
- fixed other bugs

I quickly verified installation and tested encoding/decoding on WinXP64 and Win7x64 in 32bit and 64bit applications. Please report if you run into problems on your machine.

[neuron2]

I have updated my web site to host these new versions.

Thank you for your great codec, Andreas!

[WorBry]

Here's something I didnt realize before. Just tried encoding a bob-deinterlaced (50p) PAL DV (576 anamorphic) clip back to DV with Cedocida 0.22. Was surprised that, being 50p, it was accepted. What surprised me more is that it encoded to 50p DV (fourCC: dvsd) with a bit rate of 57600 kbps. I thought DV is strictly limited to 25 Mbps? The 50p encode plays back smoothly at normal speed (not slow-mo) in VDub (with Cedocida) and MPC (with FFDShow DV decoder).

Now what would you call that? Cant technically qualify as DV50, as it's YV12 4:2:0, not 4:2:2 . Maybe akin to "DVCPro Progressive" ?

[klode]

Hi,
I have Virtualdub 1.9.11, on Windows 7 x64. Now, I have installed the last version of Cedocida DV Codec. But, randomly, I get an error, "possible livelock". I'm trying to cleaning a DV movie and maintaining the same format. I'm using an AviSynth script. If I use any other codec (for example M-JPEG, or RGB, or XviD...) I not get this error.

The problem is on another thread, in another forum: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/341954-Virtualdub-gone-to-possible-livelock-!

Thanks for your supply!

[klode]

Is there some solution to my problem reported below???

[cedocida]

I doubt that Cedocida DV Codec is the cause for the hang. Maybe it triggers a problem in another component in your processing chain.
Anyway, in order to reproduce the hang can you specify the most simple avisynth script where the problem happens and give information about the used programs, the plugins and the corresponding version numbers?