How to replace an audio stream with another

[jeanl]

People,
I have a VOB that includes video, audio (LPCM), subs and button information. What's an easy procedure to replace the audio stream with another (an ac3 stream)? I can't demux/remux because I'll lose the button info, so what's another solution?
Thanks!
Jeanl

[blutach]

Convert the audio to AC3 within the VOB itself. BeSweet should be able to do this IIRC, Jean.

Regards

[jeanl]

not that I can see. besweet offers to extract from the vob and convert to ac3, but not to put it back into the vob... I don't really know how to remux an audio stream into an existing VOB!
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Maybe you could try to remux everything with muxman, and restore the menu buttons infos in the nav packs with PgcEdit's import and export functions? Not easy if you have a lot of buttons, though.
Also, you may experience some problems if the menus are animated, and if the starting or ending points of the visibility of the buttons are not respectively at the first and last VOBU of the cell, with an highlight time of -1.

[jeanl]

Yes, I thought of that, but that's a lot of work because there's 6 cells, and I have to treat them independently... I now realize that what I'm asking for is very "specific" (remuxing another audio stream in a still menu)...
jeanl

[absinthe]

I just did a quick search and found this thread. I'm trying to back up a DVD that has just one title which is 3 hours in length. It's an almost full DVD9, and to my suprise the audio for the whole thing is LPCM. Whoa, it takes up over 2 whole gig! If I just extract the audio and convert it to, say, AC3 or MP2, I'd love to find a way to replace the LPCM. I was thinking of doing this before using, say, DVD Rebuilder.

I'm guessing this is not as easy as it sounds. :confused:

Sorry I dropped in to add to the question and not the solution ...

-abs

[jeanl]

Originally posted by absinthe
I just did a quick search and found this thread. I'm trying to back up a DVD that has just one title which is 3 hours in length. It's an almost full DVD9, and to my suprise the audio for the whole thing is LPCM. Whoa, it takes up over 2 whole gig! If I just extract the audio and convert it to, say, AC3 or MP2, I'd love to find a way to replace the LPCM. I was thinking of doing this before using, say, DVD Rebuilder.

I'm guessing this is not as easy as it sounds. :confused:

Sorry I dropped in to add to the question and not the solution ...

-abs
In your case, it's much easier:
- Demux (e.g. with vobedit)
- Convert LPCM to AC3 (besweet, use the UI)
- Remux with muxman
- Then replace the old with the new, using vobblanker I think.
jeanl

[absinthe]

Originally posted by jeanl
In your case, it's much easier:
- Demux (e.g. with vobedit)
- Convert LPCM to AC3 (besweet, use the UI)
- Remux with muxman
- Then replace the old with the new, using vobblanker I think.
jeanl Thanks, I will give it a try.

Interestingly, I was just checking to see if I had the latest version of VobEdit and came across a guide to do exactly this:

How to replace LPCM by AC3 before shrinking a DVD (http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=234240)

-abs

[jeanl]

Thanks for the guide absynthe, indeed, you can remux with IFOEdit using the cell times (that's crucial so you keep your chapters and so on)...
In my case, I have the added annoyance that I want to preserve the button infos, but there's no equivalent of the "cell times" for button info, so I'm up !@#% creek...
jeanl

[absinthe]

Mmm ... don't know if you'll have any advice on this, but I followed the guide I posted, which was fairly simple (I used SoftEncode for the AC3). After I updated the IFOs with IFOUpdate and then moved my newly remuxed VOBs to the original folder, PgcEdit gives me the error Fatal error!
PgcEdit is trying to read data after the end of a table.
This means that a Length of Table value is probably wrong.

Please try to fix the problem with IfoEdit.

The missing value may be fixed to 0, but
this could lead to strange results.

Do you want to fix the value and continue anyway?
(NOT RECOMMENDED)I'm not real sure what to do at this point. I do notice that, due to the huge amount of space saved with AC3 vs LPCM, I have one less VOB file than before.

Also, DVD Shrink won't touch the files.

-abs

[jeanl]

I don't use IFOUpdate, but you can surely fix the problem with IFOEdit.
Load up the DVD in ifoedit and do a mock strip on the VTS of the movie: load the IFO, select VOB Extra, untick Remux, untick strip streams, click OK, (make sure you have a back up of both the IFO and the VOB), then do "save" which will overwrite the IFO.
THen PgcEdit should read the file OK (and DVDSHrink too).
jeanl

[absinthe]

Originally posted by jeanl
Load up the DVD in ifoedit and do a mock strip on the VTS of the movie: load the IFO, select VOB Extra, untick Remux, untick strip streams, click OK, (make sure you have a back up of both the IFO and the VOB), then do "save" which will overwrite the IFO.
THen PgcEdit should read the file OK (and DVDSHrink too).
jeanl Jeanl, I think this did the trick. Won't know for sure until Rebuilder finishes and I can burn and test the disc, but I got no hiccups from PgcEdit.

Thanks yet again!

-abs

[blutach]

@jeanl

Is there not a way you can with PgcEdit, export the button info for each of your 6 cells, demux, convert to AC3 and remux and then import the button info with PgcEdit again?

Regards

[jeanl]

Originally posted by blutach
@jeanl

Is there not a way you can with PgcEdit, export the button info for each of your 6 cells, demux, convert to AC3 and remux and then import the button info with PgcEdit again?

Regards
Yes, absolutely. This is my last resort, it's not that bad really, I only have 6 menus to do, but you're right. I need to remux everything together with muxman, then put the button info back with pgcedit...
I just wish there was a demuxing-remuxing program that would also export/re-import button info... I wonder if muxman could do that?
jeanl

[absinthe]

Quick follow-up question: How can I change the internal "labeling" of a stream? Though PgcEdit, under stream info, does show my newly replaced track to be AC3, when I play the DVD in a standalone player and press the audio key the TV still displays LPCM (even though it's actually an AC3 track).

Nitpicking I guess, but I'd just like it to be accurate.

-abs

[jeanl]

I must say I don't know! I would have thought that DVD players identify streams from their stream ID (which is coded into the audio pack headers in the VOB file), and the stream ID tells you the format (there are specific ID ranges for LPCM, AC3, MPEG-1 etc).
Now, there might be other tables in the IFO that I'm not aware of, r0lZ should be able to answer that...
jeanl

[jsoto]

- Demuxing with VobEdit will not work fine with subs if there are more than one VID in subs. Timestamps will be reset to zero. I prefer to use pgcDemux ;)
- I also prefer to replace with VobBlanker instead of IFOUpdate. Not sure if IFOUpdate is able to do the job in all cases (multi-pgc VOB).
- Finally, audio attributes are stored twice in IFOs, one in the VTS_XX_0.IFO and a copy in VIDEO_TS.IFO. PgcEdit and VobBlanker modify both copies when modify the attributes, but, IIRC, an IFOEdit's mock strip not.

jsoto

[jeanl]

Originally posted by jsoto
- Demuxing with VobEdit will not work fine with subs if there are more than one VID in subs. Timestamps will be reset to zero. I prefer to use pgcDemux ;)

You're right, much better...

- I also prefer to replace with VobBlanker instead of IFOUpdate. Not sure if IFOUpdate is able to do the job in all cases (multi-pgc VOB).

I use IFOEdit, but you're right again, vobblanker is much more user friendly.

- Finally, audio attributes are stored twice in IFOs, one in the VTS_XX_0.IFO and a copy in VIDEO_TS.IFO. PgcEdit and VobBlanker modify both copies when modify the attributes, but, IIRC, an IFOEdit's mock strip not.
jsoto
eh eh eh, jsoto to the rescue!
jeanl

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by absinthe
Quick follow-up question: How can I change the internal "labeling" of a stream? Though PgcEdit, under stream info, does show my newly replaced track to be AC3, when I play the DVD in a standalone player and press the audio key the TV still displays LPCM (even though it's actually an AC3 track).

Nitpicking I guess, but I'd just like it to be accurate. With PgcEdit, right-click on any PGC in the domain, and select "Domain Streams Attributes". In the basic streams setup window, click on the LPCM button. Another window is opened, where you can change the stream's coding mode, and some other advanced parameters (quantization, number of channels, sample rate...)

[absinthe]

Originally posted by r0lZ
With PgcEdit, right-click on any PGC in the domain, and select "Domain Streams Attributes". In the basic streams setup window, click on the LPCM button. Another window is opened, where you can change the stream's coding mode, and some other advanced parameters (quantization, number of channels, sample rate...) Hey r0lZ,

I do that, but it already says "AC3 (2 channels)" (I'm assuming this is the button where you're saying there should be "LPCM," but that isn't there).

Nonetheless, my DVD player still displays "LPCM" when I press the audio button.

-abs

[r0lZ]

Humm. If PgcEdit displays AC3, then it's AC3 that is stored in the IFOs. So, it should be a problem in the VOB. Maybe the old stream ID is still used?

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ
Humm. If PgcEdit displays AC3, then it's AC3 that is stored in the IFOs. So, it should be a problem in the VOB. Maybe the old stream ID is still used?
If that were the case, I'm guessing the player would totally screw up, but that's easy to check: absynthe, can you check the stream ID in VOBEdit? Open the VOB, go to an audio pack, and check the stream ID at offset 0x17 (or around there)... AC3 is 0x80 to 0x87, LPCM 0xa0 to 0xa7.

jeanl

[absinthe]

Well, all the audio packs in all the VOBs I checked in VobEdit are labeled 0x80.

And the disc plays fine in standalones.

One weird thing: When I mount the image with Daemon and try to look at it with DVD Decrypter, DVD Decrypter crashes and shuts down every time.

-abs

[jeanl]

Now that's a puzzle! You're saying everywhere in the IFO, it says AC3 (did you check all of the PGCs?) but the standalone still says LPCM! How can that be! There must be a place where this info is saved...
jeanl

[absinthe]

I think I found it. The DVD is rather simple. Only two VTS's, and the main movie, which only has 7 chapters, is VTS_02. VTS_01 is just the FBI warning, and when I looked at that IFO in IFOEdit I did see that the audio was marked LPCM. So I edited that and made a new image.

I won't know if the player displays properly until tomorrow. I'm too tired right now to wait for this 2x speed DVD-RW to burn.

But, strangely enough, DVD Decrypter still crashes when I try to open a mounted image of the DVD after fixing it. Something's still weird about it, but sheesh I guess it could be anything ...

thx,

-abs

[absinthe]

Well, after correcting the IFO noted above and burning, now the TV does display "Dolby Digital 2-ch" correctly, but there is no audio in the menu :).

I need to wrap this up so I'm just going to burn a final copy of the original image (the one before I made the change noted above). It'll say "LPCM" when I press audio, but as far as I can tell it works perfectly fine in several DVD players.

So ... to sum up.

- VIDEO_TS.IFO is labeled with AC3

- VTS_01.IFO was labeled LPCM but I've changed it to AC3. In fact there is no audio in this titleset; it contains only an FBI warning and no audio stream. Before making this change, the main title in VTS_02 would play and display "LPCM" when pressing the audio button. After making this change, VTS_02 playback correctly displays "Dolby Digital" but the menu has no sound!

- VTS_02.IFO is labeled with AC3 and plays back just fine.

By the way, DVD Shrink won't open these files for processing. It specifically says "Invalid data in file VTS_02_0.VOB." I don't know what to do with that ...

-abs

[jeanl]

Originally posted by absinthe


By the way, DVD Shrink won't open these files for processing. It specifically says "Invalid data in file VTS_02_0.VOB." I don't know what to do with that ...

-abs
Well, then you need a "full" mock strip! You know you did a mock strip to correct the IFO (so you could open in PgcEdit), in that mock strip, you probably didn't process the VOB file. Apparently it looks like some of the pointers in the vob file are screwed up. So do a full mock strip:
untick "strip streams" but keep "Correct Vob-Unit (Navigation pack) pointers in vob-file" checked. Click OK, save the IFO, and try loading in Shrink. This should do it...
jeanl

[absinthe]

Originally posted by jeanl
So do a full mock strip:
untick "strip streams" but keep "Correct Vob-Unit (Navigation pack) pointers in vob-file" checked. Click OK, save the IFO, and try loading in Shrink. This should do it...
jeanl No go. In fact, I think this is exactly the same thing I did last time (same settings). I still get the same message.

sorry to be a bother :rolleyes:

-abs

[jeanl]

Originally posted by absinthe
No go. In fact, I think this is exactly the same thing I did last time (same settings). I still get the same message.

sorry to be a bother :rolleyes:

-abs
Wait! Your problem is with VTS_02_0.VOB right? To do your mock strip, did you use "VOB extra" or "Menu Extra". You need "Menu Extra" (VOB extra will mock strip the title domain VTS_02_x.VOB x>0) to do the mock strip on VTS_02_0.VOB. Try again man!
Jeanl

[absinthe]

Originally posted by jeanl
Try again man!
Jeanl Jeanl, you are too cool :cool:

That finally did the trick. I had to change the audio stream label in VTS_01 back to LPCM in order to have audio in the menu of VTS_02 (go figure), but everything works as it should.

I'm gonna burn this now and put this behind me. Hope I remember this trick if I need it again.

BTW, I realize that I did make a mistake. The menu is in VTS_01 (it's not just an FBI warning). I don't know how I overlooked that. I guess to have really done things properly I should have stripped that audio out and replaced it with AC3 as well. As it stands I have a menu with LPCM and a feature with AC3. I guess it's not too late to go back and fix that as well, just to see if I can actually get it right.

Thanks,

-abs

[jeanl]

Originally posted by absinthe
Jeanl, you are too cool :cool:

That finally did the trick. I had to change the audio stream label in VTS_01 back to LPCM in order to have audio in the menu of VTS_02 (go figure), but everything works as it should.

I'm gonna burn this now and put this behind me. Hope I remember this trick if I need it again.

BTW, I realize that I did make a mistake. The menu is in VTS_01 (it's not just an FBI warning). I don't know how I overlooked that. I guess to have really done things properly I should have stripped that audio out and replaced it with AC3 as well. As it stands I have a menu with LPCM and a feature with AC3. I guess it's not too late to go back and fix that as well, just to see if I can actually get it right.

Thanks,

-abs
Don't do it! Swapping the audio in a menu is more difficult, because of the button information that will be lost during the demux/remux. So, not only do you need to remux subpics as well as audio and video (for the buttons) you also need to re-create the button information. You can do that "easily" with PgcEdit (it's a copy/past type of thing, or export/import), but you have to do it menu by menu, and if you have a bunch, it might end up being a pain in the neck...
That's exactly what I was trying to do at the start of this thread, and I have more or less abandonned the idea!

jeanl

[absinthe]

Originally posted by jeanl
Don't do it! Ok, then. Good tip :). I'll leave it as is ... but I think I'll keep the files on my hard drive and experiment with trying to change out the menu audio anyway sometime later, just for educational purposes.

thx,

-abs

[Surf]

"I have a VOB that includes video, audio (LPCM), subs and button information. What's an easy procedure to replace the audio stream with another (an ac3 stream)? I can't demux/remux because I'll lose the button info, so what's another solution?"

Is it something like VTS-01-0.vob the VTSM(the menu)part you're trying to manipulate?

[jeanl]

Originally posted by Surf
"I have a VOB that includes video, audio (LPCM), subs and button information. What's an easy procedure to replace the audio stream with another (an ac3 stream)? I can't demux/remux because I'll lose the button info, so what's another solution?"

Is it something like VTS-01-0.vob the VTSM(the menu)part you're trying to manipulate?
Yes...
J.

[Surf]

Give DVDauthorgui a shot then. Lol, it can re-create the menu while you're at it! The program can put a motion WITH audio menu! I know you don't want motion BUT with audio. I think it's the solution...

[jeanl]

Originally posted by Surf
Give DVDauthorgui a shot then. Lol, it can re-create the menu while you're at it! The program can put a motion WITH audio menu! I know you don't want motion BUT with audio. I think it's the solution...
Yes, I"ve been using TMPGenc DVD Author, but I'm not very satisfied with it. Checking DVDauthorgui is on my todo list. One question though: Does it create the menu background for you (i.e., create little buttons with the video the buttons will get you to) or do you have to do that by hand? Doing it by hand would be very time consuming, that's one thing the TMPGenc DVD Author does reasonably well...
jean

[Surf]

uh-oh, this won't create "little buttons with video". So far I have used captured bmp for menu background. If I'm not mistaken, your goal is to replace the lcpm with ac3, right? I believe it can then import your "menu" say created by TMPgenc Author and the program will prompt if you want to add audio.