PgcEdit's many usage explained

[Surf]

Hi resident experts:

I'm starting this new thread to learn many many functions in PgcEdit I have no clue on....the queries will grow as I gather them from the program...

1.) How do I know what those 16 rubic cube colors control? I have been guessing blindly in changing the color of the sub-title color, with great care I might add for I am experimenting blind!

2.) Basic explanation of stc, seamless, those 2, 8, 10, 16 numbers...

These are the two I can think of at the moment, TIA.

[jeanl]

Originally posted by Surf
Hi resident experts:

I'm starting this new thread to learn many many functions in PgcEdit I have no clue on....the queries will grow as I gather them from the program...

1.) How do I know what those 16 rubic cube colors control? I have been guessing blindly in changing the color of the sub-title color, with great care I might add for I am experimenting blind!

You are correct, they control the color of the subtitles (and highlights in menus). Subtitles are defined in the subpic packs, and there's only 16 colors that can be used (a 16 color palette so to speak). This palette is defined in the PGC, which is what you see in PgcEdit. The problem is you don't really know which color is used in the subpic packs (unless you start disassembling them!) so it's not always easy to change then.
For menu highlights it's a bit easier, because which color is used when highlighing or selecting is accessible via PgcEdit's menu editor. So it's easier to change highlights colors (either by going in the menu editor and chosing another one of the 16 colors defined in the PGC, or by defining an entirely new one in the PGC palette and chosing that one in the menu editor).



2.) Basic explanation of stc, seamless, those 2, 8, 10, 16 numbers...

These are the two I can think of at the moment, TIA.
I think there are some flags there that none of us fully understand (I'm thinking of the seamless angle). Here's what I undestand of a couple of the flags... if I'm not mistaken:
-STC discontinuity indicates that the STC (system reference clock) resets at the start of the cell.
- Angle block indicates that you have interleaved VCIDs that represent angles. The cells all have the same VOBID but from VOBU to VOBU you can see 1/1 1/2 1/3 1/1 1/2 1/3 (for a 3-angle cell).
- Seamless joint indicates that playback should be seamless between the preceding cell and the current one.
- Interleaved: I forget! EDIT: I remember now: it indicates that you have interleaved CELLIDs in the cell, like above with the angles.

- Angle types: This is used for angle cells, to determine which one corresponds to the first angle, which one to the last, and which ones to the other angles. This is tricky to understand...

jeanl

[2COOL]

Originally posted by Surf
2.) Basic explanation of stc, seamless, those 2, 8, 10, 16 numbers... Maybe someone could break this down into newbie terms. See [0127] to [0133] of this document (http://www.freshpatents.com/Digital-video-system-dt20041118ptan20040228617.php). I wish I could see the document source for the figure drawings it's referring to. :(

[Surf]

Thanks a lot 2COOL! :D For confusing the issue further!(lmao)

@Jean: So you're saying that each cube has NO particular reference? I have to "grope" in the dark? Changing the sub title color's relatively easy, involving one or two blend of colors. Just wondering the rest of them.

[jeanl]

Interesting document! How did you find it?
Here's an explanation of the seamless angle flag:

That is, if the interleaved allocation flag=1b and seamless angle
change flag=0b, the angle can be changed non-seamlessly; if the interleaved allocation flag=1b and seamless angle change flag=1b,
the angle can be changed seamlessly.

Apparently, the seamless angle flag indicates you can change angle in a seamless manner...
jeanl

[jeanl]

Originally posted by Surf
Thanks a lot 2COOL! :D For confusing the issue further!(lmao)

@Jean: So you're saying that each cube has NO particular reference? I have to "grope" in the dark? Changing the sub title color's relatively easy, involving one or two blend of colors. Just wondering the rest of them.
Each square is a color which you can adjust. Each has an index (for example from 1 to 16). In the subpic packs, there are subpic commands that can select the color and the transparency of the subpics (subtitles or highlights). Typically, you would find "SetColor N" where N represents the index of the color in the PGC table. Unfortunately, it's not easy to gain access to this "SetColor" command in the subpic packs, so you don't know which N is used in the subpics, and therefore, you don't know which square to modify in the PGC palette... But you can still do it by trial and error...
jeanl
EDIT: Subtitles usually use only 1 or 2 colors, but they could use as many as 16, and even more if the subpics use more advanced commands which only mpucoder is entirely familiar with :D

[2COOL]

Originally posted by Surf
Thanks a lot 2COOL! :D For confusing the issue further!(lmao)I am 2C:cool::cool:L of Borg. You will be assimilated!

:p

[EDIT]Neeed more confusion? Anyways, I'm a newbie when it comes to subtitle stuff. Is PgcEdit's arrangement the same as here (http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/s3conv.htm)?

[2COOL]

More info on how multiple angles are set within angle type section. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90612

See jsoto's reply in 2nd post. ;)

[foobaz]

Originally posted by 2COOL
I wish I could see the document source for the figure drawings it's referring to. :(
You got it, courtesy of the USPTO:

Publication Number: 20040228617 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040228617%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040228617&RS=DN/20040228617)

Click the Images button.

You will need AlternaTIFF (http://www.alternatiff.com/) to view it.

[blutach]

Thanks foobaz - how come we need that alternatiff viewer? Won't a regular tiff viewer read it?

It's a gold mine though! WOW.

Regards

[foobaz]

Originally posted by blutach
Thanks foobaz
You're welcome. I'm glad you appreciate it.
- how come we need that alternatiff viewer? Won't a regular tiff viewer read it?
I don't know why you can't use other tif viewers but browsers typically don't support tif images because of copyright issues I think. Also, this viewer allows you to jump to multiple images randomly via the pulldown menu or sequentially with the arrows. You can magnify the image by clicking within it. It's got that nice toolbar with all kinds of goodies. And you can configure the viewer settings. A nice piece of freeware in any case, don't you think? They used to have pdfs for each page but it took forever to download. This is much faster.
It's a gold mine though! WOW.
Isn't it though?! And it's completely free, paid for by our tax dollars. At least we're getting something back for our money. ;-)

BTW I just noticed that the link has a time limit. The main search page is:

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

Be sure to search under Published Aplications for this (20040228617). Then click on the Images button.

Another fabulous patent search site that has world patents is:

http://ep.espacenet.com/espacenet/ep/en/e_net.htm

These are pdfs for each page. They download quickly. I wasn't able to find this application by number though.

[jsoto]

Originally posted by jeanl
- Angle block indicates that you have interleaved VCIDs that represent angles. The cells all have the same VOBID but from VOBU to VOBU you can see 1/1 1/2 1/3 1/1 1/2 1/3 (for a 3-angle cell).


Angles are, by definition, different Video OBjects, so the cells have different VID.
An example: In Star-Wars, you can see one angle using VID=2 and the other using VID=3.


PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [02:10:43.21 / 25 fps] (Programs: 51) (Cells: 76) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2,3,2,3,4,5,6,7,6,7,6,7)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] : time: 00:00:19.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:00:19.13] [Frames: 488] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 2/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:01:28.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:47.15] [Frames: 2690] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/yes/ no]
[Cell 03] [V/C Id: 3/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:01:28.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:47.15] [Frames: 2690] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/yes/ no]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 04] [V/C Id: 2/ 2] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:06.23 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:54.13] [Frames: 2863] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/ no/ no]
[Cell 05] [V/C Id: 3/ 2] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:06.23 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:54.13] [Frames: 2863] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/ no/ no]
[Cell 06] [V/C Id: 4/ 1] : time: 00:05:40.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:07:35.02] [Frames: 11377] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 07] [V/C Id: 4/ 2] : time: 00:01:55.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:09:30.19] [Frames: 14269] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]

[jeanl]

sorry, my mistake!
jeanl

[Surf]

Under Utilites Menu dropdown:

Question #

3) Swap Menu LUs _when-to-use?

4) Copy LU cmds to other LUs _again-when-to-use?

5) New "Play All" titles _will create a series of commands to play one after another? (WOW if it is!)

6) Delete last PGC in domain _literally/physically?

5&6 I can experiment, 3&4 I need a lil spark...

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by Surf
3) Swap Menu LUs _when-to-use?Some low-cost players do not have a menu to configure the default menu language. They play usually the first LU in the domain. You may use this function to force these players to play a specific LU.

4) Copy LU cmds to other LUs _again-when-to-use?If you edit the commands in one LU, you need normally copy the same commands in all LUs, so that if the default menu language is changed in the player preferences, the navigation will still be the one you want. It is easier to edit only the LU that is played with your current configuration, and, when everything is done, copy all the commands from that LU to the other ones.
Note that you still need to copy manually the changes done in the PGC editor and in the menu buttons (including the button commands).

5) New "Play All" titles _will create a series of commands to play one after another? (WOW if it is!)No. It takes all PGCs of the current title domain only, and create a new PGC which will play all cells in sequence.
Note that the new PGC will be unreferenced. You have to modify the navigation of your DVD and/or create a new menu button to call it.

6) Delete last PGC in domain _literally/physically?It deletes the last PGC. Literally, and physically. It's gone. Lost. Adios. Unavailable. Vanished. Nada. ;)
If the PGC has video, the cells will be unreferenced (unless referenced by another PGC).
Note that you cannot delete everything. For example, you cannot delete the last PGC of the domain. You cannot delete a title PGC if the Title number is not the last one...
Combined with the new Swap or Copy menu PGC, this functiuon may be used to cleanup a menu domain with unreferenced PGCs.
Also, it's a cheap undo for functions like New Dummy PGC, Clone PGC and New 'Play All' Title.

[Surf]

Thanks r0lZ, now I'm a lil :o , discovered that the helpfile has all the explanation on #3,4 & 5.

The main reason I start this thread is not wanting to crowd your thread which I feel should be limited to only for the bug reports or feature requests.