Chapter 1 Plays Blank

[KSPSlice]

I updated from version .83 of rb to .84 (via the installer versions). Since the change I have tried to back up 2 discs (both R1). They are House of Flying Daggers and Spanglish. I am using the trial version of CCE 2.67, decrypting first with the latest version of DVD Decrypter, taking out only non-english audio (except with the first one where I also kept Chinese audio), and no pre-processing done.

Both have successfully backed up however when I try to play the movie the copyprotection warnings appear but when the movie starts to play there is no picture or sound. I can skip ahead to chapter 2 and the movies play fine from that point on. I can also reverse search back into the first chapter and can then play it fine, but any time I try and start from chapter 1 no video or sound is present.

I also went back to an earlier version of rb, which I had no problems with before but the same problem is occuring. Any ideas as to why this is happening? Thanks.

[jdobbs]

Have you preprocessed with another package? The reason I ask is that these movies use a clever little mechanism in which there are chapter pointers that point to parts of a cell (I call it a pseudo-cell). For example in "DAGGERS" there are seven pseudo cell pointers at the very beginning. DVD-RB handles it correctly and reproduces it as it should (I know because I just did it)... but I can't guarantee that other packages might... if it is done wrong you can have up to two minutes of blankness before the movie begins.

[NtegrA]

Originally posted by jdobbs
For example in "DAGGERS" there are seven pseudo cell pointers at the very beginning. DVD-RB handles it correctly and reproduces it as it should (I know because I just did it)...

What did you use as the source? from the other thread you said you were going to try daemontools mounted ISO, which is what I also did, but got the 5 minutes at the beginning (I was using movie only mode versions .86 - .88). Also see my post HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93769)

Any relation?

[jdobbs]

I mounted the ISO from DVD Decrypter to do the encode. I then wrote the output to an ISO image and burned it to DVD-5 with DVD Decrypter. It works flawlessly.

[jdobbs]

In the thread you've referenced you are doing a "Movie Only" encode. I haven't tried that, but don't believe it should be an issue. I'll do a movie-only later tonight and see how it works.

[KSPSlice]

No pre-processing done on the movie. All of the extras are kept. Only some language audio tracks i have excluded (done via rb). I have used dvd decrypter using its default settings. The only programs I have used are rebuilder and decrypter. Anydvd runs in the background. Not sure if it would cause a problem but in the many, many times I have used rebuilder this problem has never occured before.

I also tried the hc encoder (with Spanglish) and the same problem occurred as well. On another note this was the first time I have used the hc encoder and it worked quite nicely.

Another thing to add, the decrypted and uncompressed files work fine. The chapter plays as it normally does. It's only the result from rb that has a problem. I will try and complete one of the movies with recode or shrink to see if the problem occurs with those.

[NtegrA]

Originally posted by jdobbs
In the thread you've referenced you are doing a "Movie Only" encode. I haven't tried that, but don't believe it should be an issue. I'll do a movie-only later tonight and see how it works.

OK, this time I did the "movie only" from my original ISO, only this time I used HC on normal quality. As on previous attempts I stripped all audio and subtitles except english.

This left me with a 3.68GB directory and it plays correctly in WinDVD. No blank 1st chapter. Maybe the solution is to re-encode? I'm pretty sure that was the only difference (I was doing no compression previously).

UPDATE: heh. sorry I lied. I just went back to DVD-RB and checked what I did. I actually went into the segment viewer and blanked the 1st 7 segments.

[Jon1166]

I ran into the same problem with DVD-RB 86PRO last weekend doing a copy of The Forgotten. The first chapter is blank and the only way I can get it to play is to reverse search back to the start of chapter 1. I copied the movie and all the extras with a 10% slight quality drop. I use CCE SP 2.70.2.0 to encode, Img Classic 0.91.5 to create the image and DVD Decrypter to burn. I haven't had time to try it again and since then I've updated to DVD-RB 88Pro. Was this a one off issue with that movie or DVD-RB 86pro?

[jdobbs]

Yeah. I just looked at it, and if you do movie-only it reauthors the disc from scratch -- and creates the 5 minutes of blank space (which, by the way, is there but not played on the original). Until I come up with a way of recognizing this an removing it, I'd suggest you use the segment editor to remove the blank space. Of course you could also it "Next" on your remote, as the movie actually starts at Chapter 2 (on the original also).

[lamster]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Have you preprocessed with another package? The reason I ask is that these movies use a clever little mechanism in which there are chapter pointers that point to parts of a cell (I call it a pseudo-cell). For example in "DAGGERS" there are seven pseudo cell pointers at the very beginning. DVD-RB handles it correctly and reproduces it as it should (I know because I just did it)... but I can't guarantee that other packages might... if it is done wrong you can have up to two minutes of blankness before the movie begins.
Was that a recent change to handle this? Because I backed up Daggers with 0.85 and saw the black screen on software players. (I didn't bother trying to burn that, so I don't know if the set-top players would handle it.)

I just modified PGC program map for PGC 11 so that the entry cell number for program 1 is cell 8 rather than cell 1, and that avoided the problem completely.

[jdobbs]

No that wasn't a recent change -- but it doesn't surprise me that software player couldn't recognize it... they are not a good test. I put the change in back when "The Forgotten" came out -- it was the first one I'd seen.

[NtegrA]

Originally posted by jdobbs
No that wasn't a recent change -- but it doesn't surprise me that software player couldn't recognize it... they are not a good test. I put the change in back when "The Forgotten" came out -- it was the first one I'd seen.

So, if I HAD burnt the disc without blanking the segments, it probably would have played on a hardware player?

[jdobbs]

I don't know your entire process... but I can only tell you that if you do the entire disc, and you don't preprocess, and you let DVD Rebuilder just do it... it will play exactly like the original in a standalone player.

[KSPSlice]

Well, I have now tried three different versions of rebuilder including not taking out any audio as well so I would be doing the entire movie for sure. Just going straight from the DVD to DVD decrypter and then to rebuilder. Still the same problem.

I also tried Nero recode and I was able to start the movie by using the scene selections but when I tried to play the movie via the menu nothing would happen, so that program also has had problems.

Is there something else that may be going on to cause a problem in two different programs? Is there anyway to remove those pseudo cell pointers? It seems so strange that I would have no problems backing up DVD's until now with the same problem on two discs in a row.

[jdobbs]

I don't know what to tell you. I just did "House of Flying Daggers" using v0.88 Pro and it copied with no problems whatsoever. I watched it last night and it worked great.

Something is being done differently at your end... did you rip with the "Remove Structure Protection" checked or not-checked in DVD Decrypter?

[KSPSlice]

Originally posted by jdobbs

Something is being done differently at your end... did you rip with the "Remove Structure Protection" checked or not-checked in DVD Decrypter?

Under the File Mode options "Remove IFO Structure Protection" is checked as on and under IFO Mode options there is no check under "Remove Structure Protection". I have always used File Mode when I decrypt and use the default settings.

[jdobbs]

See what happens if you don't check "Remove IFO Structure Protection".

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ISO mode doesn't remove the protection by default, that's why its working for you jdobbs and not KSPSlice.

If you've added the ability to detect / remove the jumped cells from an ISO rip, I'm sure it wont be hard to detect / remove the (already blanked) cells from a File mode rip.

I just manually tweak the IFO a bit when structure protection is removed from the IFO so that 1 click tools dont get 5 mins of blank movie at the start.

[KSPSlice]

For rebuilder is it better to use DVD Decrypter in ISO or file mode? And if I try ISO mode then I would just need to mount the image with daemon-tools, right?

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by LIGHTNING UK!
ISO mode doesn't remove the protection by default, that's why its working for you jdobbs and not KSPSlice.

If you've added the ability to detect / remove the jumped cells from an ISO rip, I'm sure it wont be hard to detect / remove the (already blanked) cells from a File mode rip.

I just manually tweak the IFO a bit when structure protection is removed from the IFO so that 1 click tools dont get 5 mins of blank movie at the start. I'll rip one with the "Remove Structure Protection" option checked and see what it looks like so I know what has to be done.

[lamster]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Until I come up with a way of recognizing this an removing it,
Well, Daggers had a cell command something like "if r3 == r3 then jump to cell 8". I haven't seen the other DVDs mentioned in this thread, so I don't know if that's a common theme.

[dave268]

I had this same problem initially. When I later ripped Spanglish using Smartripper 2.41, I only selected Cell # 8 in Chapter 1 along with all the other Chapters - Then everything was fine. (Ch 1 has 7 useless - actually troublemaking - cells that serve no useful purpose whatsoever).

By the way, Chopper XP is an excellent tool to select any particular portion of a .vob file and save the desired selection. Its free and incredibly easy to use.