Iron Giant SE R1 BOV / ILVU problems?

[Edsel]

Howdy. I've got some weirdness going with this disk. My symptoms are the disk plays fine on the computer (as do the non-burned files), but on my standalone I get the audio disappearing, and the video stutters and hangs for 10 seconds, sometimes permanently.. I'm sure it's not a media issue, burned it twice with different media and software, problem is identical on both, and it plays fine on the computer, and the troubles always happen at the ILVU spots, where the disk decides to play the BOV segments or not.

I did a search, no one else seems to have mentioned this disk. Recent discussion shows some similar troubles, but it sounds like the troubles are mostly cleared up:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86798

I'm fairly new at this, but haven't had any troubles with the "normal" disks I own. Is this pretty much standard still for ILVU disks? Should I just forget this disk and leave it on the shelve until later, or is there something I can do?

Actual procedures were:
Ripped with Decrypter 3.5.4.0 in File mode
Bypassed FBI / removed some audio menu choices with DVD Remake Pro 2.6.6
Ran Rebuilder 0.87a, CCE SP 2.70.2.0, removed French audio

[Rockas]

Bypassed FBI / removed some audio menu choices with DVD Remake Pro 2.6.6

You violated one of the most sacred rules :devil:

You posted before trying without a pre-processed source :devil:

A curse will fall upon you and your descendants :devil:

just kidding :D

now seriously... have you tried on a clean source?

[Edsel]

No, just as described above. The whole point was to have a disk without the crap. :)

I didn't know Remake was considered "unclean". I've not had a problem with it before.

I guess I can do another test run overnight tonight, if it's important.

[Rockas]

I didn't know Remake was considered "unclean".

well... I didn't say that... most of the times (with the latest releases) it works fine with Rebuilder.

But you must alway try (when getting problems) with a clean source. The errors you're getting may be (I'm almost certain about it) attributed to the pre-processing action... not to DVD Rebuilder.

[Edsel]

Nope, got the exact same symptoms on an untouched disk last night. Audio drops out after an ILVU section. Stuttering seemed to be better (I presume it has to do with how far the segments are apart, seems to be pretty tricky from some refs I found online)

Ripped in file mode with Decrypter (settings on File tab: all options selected except for multi angle processing, file splitting: by file). Ran Rebuilder in One pass vbr mode for speed, since it was a test only.

I wouldn't mind just ripping out the ILVU sections completely. Is there any tool that can do that?

[pg55555]

Suggestions:
- Try with RB latest version 0.88 PRO
- TRy with HC encoder (or CCE 2.50 or 2.67) Just to eliminate CCE 2.70 as the source of our problems.
Really it should not be an encoder problem as ILVUs are not encoded, but just in case.

- Try in another stand alone, better in one of the new cheap ones as they seems to be less picky about source (what brand it is your stand alone)

[Edsel]

I did use 0.88 Pro for this latest test, forgot to mention that. So it doesn't appear to be related to the version.

My standalone is a Toshiba 1750, Canadian version of the 1700. I don't have any other standalone to try it out on, not conveniently available anyways. The Toshiba handles the original disk fine, so it wouldn't appear to be a player issue, unless the burned disks are radically different in makeup.

Haven't tried HC, could give it a go.

[lamster]

Originally posted by Edsel
I wouldn't mind just ripping out the ILVU sections completely. Is there any tool that can do that?
IfoEdit can do it. I posted a while back how I used it to remove the angles from Shrek.

[jptheripper]

dvd remake pro can rip angles well, as well.

[Edsel]

Iron Giant SE isn't angles, it's only ILVU with Buttons over video. Nothing recognises it as having angles (Remake Pro doesn't activate the Remove Angle button, etc).

I don't own The Matrix (gasp!) but I believe it's like the White Rabbit feature. You can watch the disk normally, or watch it with these popup buttons, that you can click and watch a side video, then it goes back to where you left off in the film.

[pg55555]

wouldn't appear to be a player issue, unless the burned disks are radically different in makeup
Burned disks are different from DVD-ROM originals. Some Stand alone players do not like to play DVD+R/RW discs, and you must change the bitsetting to DVD-ROM for them to read them. So no all players are equal
As your back up is playing in the PC, I suggested to try in another standlalone

Can I suggest to post-process the movie trough VOBBLanker, no to blank anything, but to try to change the authoring (pointers / flags) that could be generating the problems in your stand alone.

You can also use DVD Shrink to generate an ISO and then burn the ISO with Decrypter.

[lamster]

Originally posted by Edsel
Iron Giant SE isn't angles, it's only ILVU
Stripping angles and stripping ILVU with IfoEdit is essentially the same thing.

[Edsel]

Just tried Iron Giant SE with 1.0RC1, and it's still got problems. It looks like the new code eats the BOV's. I loaded it up in DVDRemake after it was re-encoded, and they're definitely gone.

A segment of the original shows 1.51 MB, 00:00:01:00 length, {0){1} Buttons, and ILVU, while the copy says .51 MB, 00:00:01:00 length, ILVU and MA. So it ate the buttons, and added MA.

I know you've got a lot on your plate now, just trying to add some info, hopefully it'll help you track this stuff down.

[jptheripper]

and MA is?

[aaron10]

Multi-Angle

[jptheripper]

doh!

(hides in cave where he came from)

[Edsel]

FYI (which means "for your information", I ran into someone once who thought I was swearing at them :) ), the same problem exists in rc2.

There are no BOV's left in the stream that I can tell. Neither PGCEdit or DvdRemake Pro can find them in the DVDFILES output.

I'm pretty sure this is the same problem as someone is reporting with Rush in Rio.

[Edsel]

Bumping an old thread now that the big push for ver 1.0 is over, because there's still some subtle weirdness with Rebuilder and this disk. I'm thinking there's still a slight bug deep in the ILVU processing. Here's the latest situation:

Did an encode last night, Rebuilder 1.01 final + CCE. Untouched original, to alleviate that concern. Result is much closer than any other attempt above, the stuttering isn't there anymore, the bov is back.

Things aren't quite perfect though. If I load the new disk and the original into DVD Remake Pro, I see a segment of the original shows 00:00:01:00 length, {0){1} Buttons, and ILVU only, while the copy says the same length, buttons, but both ILVU *and* MA. So it appears it's still adding a Multi Angle flag where none should be. Experimenting, I see that RemakePro has a Split Interleaved Cells option on the original, but not on the copy, so it definitely has some structural differences.

Now, I don't know if this purely cosmetic, but with the complexity of dvd structure, I'd guess not.

[jdobbs]

Hmmm.. I'll check it out... but from memory I don't think DVD-RB ever changes the MA flag... so I'm not sure how it could be to blame...

[dvdbackup]

Hmmm.. I'll check it out... but from memory I don't think DVD-RB ever changes the MA flag... so I'm not sure how it could be to blame...


I already posted a tread about ILVU/MULTI ANGLE bugs..... (without any preproc.)......

They are still there.... and the post isn't even red.... :eek:

[jdobbs]

More accurately: they are there for you. The vast percentage of DVD-RB users are not experiencing any problems with ILVU... there are a very small few who are. Something in what you are doing is out of the ordinary -- either the process, the choice of settings, or maybe a common player -- I wish I could find out what it is.

Just as an aside -- you really need to work on your social skills, dude. I don't know if it is purposeful, or if English is a second language to you and that is the cause... but you have a way of saying things that really doesn't elicit a friendly response.

[Edsel]

Hmmm.. I'll check it out... but from memory I don't think DVD-RB ever changes the MA flag... so I'm not sure how it could be to blame...

Let me know if there's anything you need to check this out. I'm just using the tools I have at hand, is there something else I should use to look at the streams to compare them?

The Strip Angles command in Remake is disabled, so it's not like it thinks the whole disk is multi angle, just these dozens of short interleaved segments.

I did find one little glitch in playback that's different from the original. If I press the Menu button while in one of the sidebar videos, the main feature starts where it left off, but it plays both interleaved segments back to back. If I let it finish the sidebar video and return normally, it seems to be fine.