New tool: Blanking for the masses!

[CoNS]

Just a crazy thought...

Blanking unwanted stuff on a DVD is a must for everyone backing up DVDs in order to save space or just because that trailer, warning, studio logo etc. is frikin' annoying! And easy to do, too, with those very, very nice tools, VobBlanker and PgcEdit, IF you only know how to do it!! However, in my experience blanking is a jungle to the many users, who are not familiar with the complex world of DVD structure!

Also, none of the above tools provide a full playback function. They both have nice preview functions (w/o audio, though), but only of a single cell, PGC, title etc. No function to playback the whole DVD from the start like a standalone or software player. Thus it's neccessary even for experienced users to involve a software player when blanking in order to identify the stuff to blank.

I think this keeps many nOObs from using the very nice blanking features of VobBlanker and PgcEdit. They'll stick to DVDShrink and other programs which can be used without more than very basic knowledge of DVDs and just a little tiny bit of computer skills.

So I was thinking... How about a tool where the user can play the DVD like in normal player and then hit a button or key each time some unwanted material is played. When done, the user can hit "Remove selected material" and the proggy does the rest! The users wouldn't have to care where and how the blanking is done.

Unfortunately I don't have any programming skills at all, but I'm thinking something like a program which uses an opensource DVD player and then keeps track of which cells, PGCs, titles etc. are played and then finally builds a VobBlanker project file out of the selections the user has made and executes the project file with the VobBlanker CLI... Whaddayathink? Anyone of you coderguys in for the challenge?! :D

About the opensource DVD player, I know that Paddington (the author of SubtitleCreator) has just recently and very easily implemented a ready-to-go full DVD playback functionality in his program, which was made by someone else for the .NET framework. This could perhaps be used for this little proggy, too?

And maybe even the blanking (and bypassing) of menus could be included, using some advanced macro to automatically do thing 2COOL describes in his guide about bypassing aspect ratio/language selection menus, or the method jeanl / 2COOL describe in their guides about using GRPMs to jump straight to the main menu or movie...

[jeanl]

I completely agree with you on how difficult it is for a newbie to do that simple task. The scenario you describe (you play the DVD, click on anything you want to blank) is something r0lZ and I talked about a while back, when he came up with the trace function. I was hoping we could turn the trace into just that: play the DVD, click click click and in the end, everything you've clicked is gone. I'm not sure how high it is on r0lZ todo list... But even with the trace, you don't get exacltly what a DVD player does, so maybe another app would be more appropriate. In the same vein, I asked the author of titlesetblanker (which is very very easy to use, but has no preview :() if I could get his code and add a preview, to try to get closer to the goal of an easy blanking tool. But he isn't sure he wants to let go of his code yet...
Then, there are technical issues. A DVD playback program that actually tells you exactly what's being played (down to the cell level) isn't easy to come by. Any direct-show based solution does not fit the bill because the stupid COM interface only tells you very little about where/what's currently playing. Perhaps the code you mention, if it's build from scratch, can provide the info. That would be great. But then combining that and a full blanking program isn't easy! Blanking isn't that easy as you sure know by now. We have great tools to do that, but they're quite smart!
Perhaps an in-between solution would be a small app that would just identify what to blank (by letting the user play the DVD and "mark" things for deletion), then create a command-line that a tool like vobblanker or pgcedit could use to blank appropriately. This way, you don't have to rewrite a complete blanking program. Note that vobblanker and pgcedit don't support this kind of command line as far as I know, so that would be another thing for jsoto or r0lZ to implement....

Not that easy, right? :(
jeanl

[CoNS]

Originally posted by jeanl
Any direct-show based solution does not fit the bill because the stupid COM interface only tells you very little about where/what's currently playing. Perhaps the code you mention, if it's build from scratch, can provide the info. That would be great.Hmm, it's a DirectShow based code alright... NETmaster's open source DVD project (http://www.codeproject.com/cs/media/directshownet.asp). Paddington has experience using it/implementing it. Check out his latest version of SC (v1.6.1) to see how it works/looks like. It's surprisingly good, actually.

Originally posted by jeanl
But then combining that and a full blanking program isn't easy! Blanking isn't that easy as you sure know by now. We have great tools to do that, but they're quite smart! Perhaps an in-between solution would be a small app that would just identify what to blank (by letting the user play the DVD and "mark" things for deletion), then create a command-line that a tool like vobblanker or pgcedit could use to blank appropriately. This way, you don't have to rewrite a complete blanking program. Note that vobblanker and pgcedit don't support this kind of command line as far as I know, so that would be another thing for jsoto or r0lZ to implement....But...but... VobBlanker already has a command line interface/support AFAIK.

If the little helper/playback app could trace which cell etc. is being played and marked by the user, and then turn this info into a VobBlanker project_file.ini and use it with the VobBlanker CLI, then we're there, right?

Originally posted by jeanl
Not that easy, right? :(No, not that easy. However, life wouldn't be as fun if everything was easy!! (sorry, dumbass comment! :D)

[jeanl]

Originally posted by CoNS


But...but... VobBlanker already has a command line interface/support AFAIK.

If the little helper/playback app could trace which cell etc. is being played and marked by the user, and then turn this info into a VobBlanker project_file.ini and use it with the VobBlanker CLI, then we're there, right?

Yes, you're right! I forgot about the .ini solution! That would work. Of course we would have to reverse-engineer the .ini file :D (or maybe ask jsoto!!! :D)...

I'll take a look at the DVD player project, but if it's based on direct-show, I really believed we're dooooomed!
jeanl
EDIT: I took a look, and it really looks like he's using the regular direct-show COM interface to play/navigate the DVD. This is bad news. At this point, I don't know of a single DVD player that can report to the cell level what's being played at any given moment. The closest to that is PgcEdit's trace, as far as I know...

[CoNS]

Originally posted by jeanl
Yes, you're right! I forgot about the .ini solution! That would work. Of course we would have to reverse-engineer the .ini file :D (or maybe ask jsoto!!! :D)...Nah, that would be way too easy!! :D

Originally posted by jeanl
I'll take a look at the DVD player project, but if it's based on direct-show, I really believed we're dooooomed!

EDIT: I took a look, and it really looks like he's using the regular direct-show COM interface to play/navigate the DVD. This is bad news. At this point, I don't know of a single DVD player that can report to the cell level what's being played at any given moment. The closest to that is PgcEdit's trace, as far as I know...Dough!

And there's no way to combine the beauty of PgcEdit's trace and the DirectShow code, so that the video is envoked by the trace function as it proceeds through the DVD structure?

Could you take a closer look at the DirectShow.NET code? Unfortunately I'm not able to read and understand it nor compile it myself. :(

Hmmm, I think Paddington found this code with a Google search, or something like that. Perhaps you could find another open source project that does the job?

[jeanl]

I should take a closer look. It might be that paddington does not use the Direct Show filter to nagigate the DVD, but just to play the vob file (I seriously doubt it!). Another candidate would be mediaplayerclassic. I'm not sure whether that uses direct-show or not...
jeanl
EDIT: I need to register to take a look at the code. I'm reluctant... :(

[CoNS]

Go, jeanl, go...! You can do it, I know you can :D

[richarddd]

I'm likely missing something, but it seems all you need is the ability to play a single cell, the ability to figure out which cell comes after the current cell and the ability to deal with menus and branching. PgcEdit has all of these features, it just requires a lot of clicking when in trace mode. So all :D Rolz needs to do is modify trace mode to go to the next cell automatically (or change the next cell button to "keep / delete").

Does it matter that "you don't get exacltly what a DVD player does"? It's pretty close.

Does vlc play DVDs without directshow?

[jeanl]

well, the main limitation in my view is the absence of sound. Sometimes, this makes it hard to identify what you're looking at.
Also, the trace mode has the ability to play the DVD as a player would! Just press Run (and have your settings to only play a couple seconds then close the preview)...
What is vlc?
Jeanl

[blutach]

My 2c worth.

To do this sort of editing, one needs to have a modicum of intelligence. If you want to blank things in one click, there's Nero Recode or DVD Shrink, both of which are fine programs (and other one click solutions also cater to this functionality). The price you pay is, of course, you don't get "full" blanking.

PgcEdit and VobBlanker show how to blank and have guides on their sites for people. PgcEdit's trace function also is very easy to use.

So, do we need anything new in these progs? My view would be no, we don't. Folks just need to learn how to use what is already there - and many thousands already have. They can, and have, learned to use these progs as they are.

Regards

[jeanl]

I too think that the trace function in PgcEdit should be enough. All we need is 1 more button in the preview dialog to say "Kill this guy". r0lZ and I have discussed that but we haven't implemented it yet. This would be a great step toward a semi-automatic way: run the trace, and kill whatever you want to kill, as it displays in front of you.

One drawback with this method is that it's not good if you want to blank more than just what comes before the menu, because playback does not help you much there (for example, to remove extras and stuff)...

Anyway. Things are much much better than they were a while back (remember the many many guides put out by 2COOL to do things that we can do with a click of a button these days!)...
jeanl

[CoNS]

Originally posted by blutach
So, do we need anything new in these progs? My view would be no, we don't. Folks just need to learn how to use what is already there - and many thousands already have. They can, and have, learned to use these progs as they are.Hehe, yeah well, I might be too service minded here, but think about it blutach: Innovation is what drives the human race! The challenge of finding an easier way to do things... If not, we'd all still be living in the trees trying to blank them DVDs with a wooden stick :D Originally posted by jeanl
I too think that the trace function in PgcEdit should be enough. All we need is 1 more button in the preview dialog to say "Kill this guy". r0lZ and I have discussed that but we haven't implemented it yet. This would be a great step toward a semi-automatic way: run the trace, and kill whatever you want to kill, as it displays in front of you.I've been thinking about this, too. However, as the trace function works now, you only see the playback of the DVD written as a status log, right? There's no connection between the trace function and the preview window (other than it pops up for menu selection when a menu with buttons is encountered)? (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few versions back since I've done some tracing). If only we could see the video in the preview window as the trace function moves along, it wouldn't matter that the video playback between the cells is not as smooth as on a standalone player or "normal" software player.

Then, as you said jeanl, we'd need a "Mark for blanking" button in connection with the traced preview, and a finalizing "Blank marked material" button to do the job. But PgcEdit cannot blank (remove material) on PGC and cell level?

I think the fact that no audio is played doesn't matter too much. A suggestion could be to show the content of the system registers for audio and subtitle language in the trace window. (But is audio playback impossible to implement next to the preview of video, jeanl?)

Originally posted by jeanl
One drawback with this method is that it's not good if you want to blank more than just what comes before the menu, because playback does not help you much there (for example, to remove extras and stuff)...Hmm, what if you in the trace mode select the extra material from the main menu etc.?

So it all COULD be done with some additions to PgcEdit, right? Problem might be, however, that r0lZ is looking for some time off the project during the spring and summer...

[richarddd]

Originally posted by jeanl
What is vlc?
Jeanl A media player. http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ It does not seem to use directshow and is open source.

[CoNS]

BTW, r0lZ: What are your thoughts on the PgcEdit suggestions?

[blutach]

Originally posted by CoNS
Hehe, yeah well, I might be too service minded here, but think about it blutach: Innovation is what drives the human race! The challenge of finding an easier way to do things... If not, we'd all still be living in the trees trying to blank them DVDs with a wooden stick :D If you want things from scratch there is of course DVDRMP and TMPGEnc DVD Author. No blanking required.I've been thinking about this, too. However, as the trace function works now, you only see the playback of the DVD written as a status log, right? There's no connection between the trace function and the preview window (other than it pops up for menu selection when a menu with buttons is encountered)? (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few versions back since I've done some tracing). If only we could see the video in the preview window as the trace function moves along, it wouldn't matter that the video playback between the cells is not as smooth as on a standalone player or "normal" software player.Tick the little box to the right of setup and to the left of the X in the trace screen and it will display a preview of every cell that is played.

Regards

[r0lZ]

On the open source players: Jeanl is right. If they use DirectX, they are not suitable to do the job, as it is impossible to know what is currently played, at least when playing a menu or something in the VMG domain.
Other players, like VLC or MPC, are probably more suitable. Unfortunately, both are verry complex, and it is difficult to see what is played exactly (for example, a menu may be composed of several cells: if the user click on one cell, does it means he wants to blank the cell, or the whole menu?)
Also, VLC's DVD playback is full of bugs, and MPC is still not totally standard compliant.

PgcEdit: It is possible to add a button to mark the current cell for blanking. But remember: PgeEdit is not able to blank at the PGC or cell level. It can blank only at the domain level. Obviously, that is not sufficient.
However, the solution may be to combine the PgcEdit's trace method with VobBlanker. It is probably possible to write an INI file for VobBlanker, from within PgcEdit, and launch VobBlanker to do the job.

Maybe I'll do that later...

[CoNS]

Originally posted by blutach
If you want things from scratch there is of course DVDRMP and TMPGEnc DVD Author. No blanking required.I don't want things from scratch! And they're not freeware, and I'd need to reauthor from...scratch, right?Originally posted by blutach
Tick the little box to the right of setup and to the left of the X in the trace screen and it will display a preview of every cell that is played.Ahh, will test when I get home from work. Sounds good. :o But, heck, we're halfway there, then!!

Originally posted by r0lZ
However, the solution may be to combine the PgcEdit's trace method with VobBlanker. It is probably possible to write an INI file for VobBlanker, from within PgcEdit, and launch VobBlanker to do the job.

Maybe I'll do that later...YES!! That would be so frikin' cool, r0lZ! Please, I'm sure it would open the eyes of many new users to the wonderful world of DVD blanking, and make them climb down from the trees...! :)

[Oldeman]

Freeware rocks and keeps the pay for play guys on their toes.
It's not freeware, but its very GOOD at doing much of what you describe here.

I'm talking about DvdReMake from Dimadsoft. The Pro version makes it very easy to hide/remove cells or even parts of cells without destroying playback. Of course you can also hide menu options that are no longer desired.

Hope I don't get in trouble here, but a new version 3 will be out soon with lots of additional capability. I don't have any monetary interest in it, but am only a happy user/tester.

Do yourself a favor and check it out.

:cool: blatent pandering....

[jeanl]

Oldeman
I think most of us here would agree that DVDRemake Pro is very high quality stuff, and of course, it can be used to blank stuff out, that's the very least a good DVD editing tool can do these days ;).

But I don't think it has any kind of "trace" to check the navigation, or does it?
Also, do you know what these new features you're talking about are? Can you share that?
jeanl

[CoNS]

Oldeman, are you OT'ing on us now?! :) Does DVDRemake Pro v2 or v3 provide the one-click blanking solution while previewing the DVD as described in my first first?

[Surf]

I have mixed feelings about your proposal CoNS. On one side, sharing/automating is noble and on the other one's missing an opportunity of how-things-work....

I echo Jean's statement regarding PgcEdit's & VobBlanker's ability to replace many many of 2COOL's amazing guides!

[jeanl]

Blanking is still confusing to many. I answered a post the other day, for a guy who was wondering whether PgcEdit could or could not reclaim the space after blanking. To a newbie, the answer is confusing! Yes if it's a full titleset, no if it isn't. Also it's not easy to know exactly what you can blank, and what you shouldn't, or even to find where the stuff is you don't need. I remember as a complete newbie (not too long ago) I was completely confused, even by a very very simple program such as titlesetblanker.
And quite frankly, I can't see much value to learning the intricacies of the DVD specs, because I don't have too much respect for the people who designed them. Learning about the DVD structure feels like you're learning the contorted idiosyncracies of an overworked engineer, logic at first seems to have very little say in all that! You must remember how confused you first were by the ever-so-deep hiearchy, the obscure (and confusing) terminology, etc. I know I wrote a couple guides that tried to educate people about all this, but frankly, I wish people didn't have to go through that to achieve what they have in mind.
That's why 1-click solutions are not that bad, in my view. Now r0lZ would strongly disagree on that, I'm sure!
jeanl

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by jeanl
That's why 1-click solutions are not that bad, in my view. Now r0lZ would strongly disagree on that, I'm sure! No, I agree. 1-click solutions are needed by many people, including me. For example, I like the ease of use of a program called 'MenuShrink' ;). But these programs are generally able to do only one or two things. If you want to go further, you're in an deadlock. Therefore some more powerful programs are also essential.
Also, with low level programs such as PgcEdit or IfoEdit, you may really learn how a DVD works, and then, use creative solutions for problems that 1-click programs cannot handle. Your guides, jeanl, are good examples of this creativity.

[Dimad]

Originally posted by CoNS
Oldeman, are you OT'ing on us now?! :) Does DVDRemake Pro v2 or v3 provide the one-click blanking solution while previewing the DVD as described in my first first?
Sorry, it is not that Oldeman is teasing you :) I've asked beta testers not to distribute info about v3 functionality until it is released. But he is right DRM v3 is very close to what you describe. Or I would rather say all the needed functionality needed for playback and blanking is there - just interface should be adjusted/created to alow what you describe.

I guess it answers:
But I don't think it has any kind of "trace" to check the navigation, or does it?
v3 has "some kind". It is not a step-by-step DVD playback at the moment, but this will be easy to do (once I have time :) ).

[CoNS]

Sounds very interesting, Dimad. I'll keep an eye open for v3 of DVDRemake Pro. When do you suppose you'll have a public release ready?

[Dimad]

Most probably in May.

[blutach]

Thanks for the info Dimad. KUTGW.

Regards

[CoNS]

r0lZ: I've tested the trace function in PgcEdit with preview enabled as blutach described in a previous post in this thread.

The playback is a bit abrupt with the preview window closing and popping up again and again.

But heck, it works! We just need that extra button in the preview window saying "Mark for blanking", and then a confirmation window to pop up after the trace is broken, saying "Hello handsome, PgcEdit has noticed that you've marked material for blanking. Would you like PgcEdit to perform the blanking via VobBlanker? Yes, no or maybe?". Do you need more info on how the VobBlanker project ini file is structured?

Also, other than the constant closing down and popping up of the preview window (is there a setting to change this?) I've noticed three things with the current trace/preview feature:

1) In the disc I tested (one of them nasty Disney DVDs), there was many a PGC with playback time 0:00 and no buttons. They could aswell have been dummy PGCs but they weren't. And thus they kept popping up in the preview window during the trace, just showing a blank, black picture with no playback possible. Could you implement an option in the trace/preview settings to aviod/ommit these PGCs?

2) I would expect the playback of the video to start automatically in the trace mode. Instead the preview window pops up (often showing a first, black frame) and you'll manually have to hit the play button. I think it's okay, though, that the trace doesn't proceed before you choose so in the preview window, in case you want to see the stuff again and didn't catch it the first time, but why not let it start playing by itself?

3) The first time I tried the trace function combined with the preview, the button text in the preview window seemed a bit misleading: "Close preview". Perhaps "Close preview and continue trace" is more accurate (but longer, too)!?

Anyway, r0lZ: The one-and-a-half click blanking tool for the masses really could be done with an addition to the PgcEdit trace/preview function creating a VobBlanker project file and calling VobBlanker... I hope you'll find the time to do it, could be a blast :D

[jeanl]

Originally posted by CoNS
r0lZ: I've tested the trace function in PgcEdit with preview enabled as blutach described in a previous post in this thread.

The playback is a bit abrupt with the preview window closing and popping up again and again.

Yes, that's because pgceditpreview is another separate program that PgcEdit starts and stops to show you the video. There was no other easy way to do it at the time, because once the program is launched, PgcEdit can't control it. It is a bit distracting, I'll grant you that!


But heck, it works! We just need that extra button in the preview window saying "Mark for blanking", and then a confirmation window to pop up after the trace is broken, saying "Hello handsome, PgcEdit has noticed that you've marked material for blanking. Would you like PgcEdit to perform the blanking via VobBlanker? Yes, no or maybe?". Do you need more info on how the VobBlanker project ini file is structured?

Also, other than the constant closing down and popping up of the preview window (is there a setting to change this?) I've noticed three things with the current trace/preview feature:

1) In the disc I tested (one of them nasty Disney DVDs), there was many a PGC with playback time 0:00 and no buttons. They could aswell have been dummy PGCs but they weren't. And thus they kept popping up in the preview window during the trace, just showing a blank, black picture with no playback possible. Could you implement an option in the trace/preview settings to aviod/ommit these PGCs?

2) I would expect the playback of the video to start automatically in the trace mode. Instead the preview window pops up (often showing a first, black frame) and you'll manually have to hit the play button. I think it's okay, though, that the trace doesn't proceed before you choose so in the preview window, in case you want to see the stuff again and didn't catch it the first time, but why not let it start playing by itself?

There's an option in the preview menu to "automatically start Preview Playback", and even more options in the "setup" menu of the trace panel.. r0lZ thought of everything man! ;)

jeanl

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by CoNS
1) In the disc I tested (one of them nasty Disney DVDs), there was many a PGC with playback time 0:00 and no buttons. They could aswell have been dummy PGCs but they weren't. And thus they kept popping up in the preview window during the trace, just showing a blank, black picture with no playback possible. Could you implement an option in the trace/preview settings to aviod/ommit these PGCs? Certainly not! The preview option is there to show exactly when a PGC is played, and what is his video contents. If it is a black frame, you may want to kill the playback.

2) I would expect the playback of the video to start automatically in the trace mode. Instead the preview window pops up (often showing a first, black frame) and you'll manually have to hit the play button. I think it's okay, though, that the trace doesn't proceed before you choose so in the preview window, in case you want to see the stuff again and didn't catch it the first time, but why not let it start playing by itself?See jeanl's answer, above.

3) The first time I tried the trace function combined with the preview, the button text in the preview window seemed a bit misleading: "Close preview". Perhaps "Close preview and continue trace" is more accurate (but longer, too)!?You have Close And Break Trace next to this button. IMHO, it is obvious that the 'normal' button should not break the trace.

Anyway, r0lZ: The one-and-a-half click blanking tool for the masses really could be done with an addition to the PgcEdit trace/preview function creating a VobBlanker project file and calling VobBlanker... I hope you'll find the time to do it, could be a blast :D It's not as easy as you think. This function needs a modification in Preview.exe, and some tests must be done so that the navigation will not be broken. I will see that later...
Also, please note that with this method, you will probably omit to blank some unwanted material. For example, FBI warnings are often in several languages, but only one warning is shown. The selection is based on your preferred language setup, or on the option you choosed in the language selection menu of the DVD.

[voo_doo99]

Originally posted by jeanl
And quite frankly, I can't see much value to learning the intricacies of the DVD specs, because I don't have too much respect for the people who designed them. Learning about the DVD structure feels like you're learning the contorted idiosyncracies of an overworked engineer, logic at first seems to have very little say in all that! You must remember how confused you first were by the ever-so-deep hiearchy, the obscure (and confusing) terminology, etc. I know I wrote a couple guides that tried to educate people about all this, but frankly, I wish people didn't have to go through that to achieve what they have in mind.

Overstating things a little, aren't we? :D. After all, the specification worked, the technology worked, and everyone enjoyed the product. :cool:

And with the super tools available now, the technical-minded people could backup the DVD, watch it the way they wanted to and that is great. For me, no sweat, I have fun learning and doing it and I did not have to know a lot beyond fundamental DVD structure and terminology. And the included logo, warning, trailers only bugged me; for the rest of the family, no one really cared. :p

Now if we are looking for something friendly and free for the mass :rolleyes: , there are exising tools that can be married together, if and when :D, to provide the answer. I am thinking of the DVDShrink tool with its lovely graphic interface, preview, compression engine and VobBlanker tool with the awesome blanking capability. Integrated in one super tool, it might just do it :cool:.
And not in the least, there is PgcEdit and MenuShrink in the wing for sophisticated reauthoring.

Thank you, you great tool builders, I feel so lucky :D

[Surf]

Overworked contorted idio-what? lmao. By the way, it's not over-stating; the spec works because the whole world has no choice but to follow it!

There I go thinking again. The next best thing for the masses since sliced bread(DVDshrink) is VobBlanker. It resulted from Shrink's inablity to blank properly and PgcEdit came about from the "sterile" environment of IfoEdit. I think it is not that difficult for Jsoto do a new layout, called it Simple Mode. Have the dvd folder loaded, line them up similarly like DVDshrink displaying only titles. Skip having to click the preview-cut button, instead when one clicks on a title one can bring up the preview. If one chooses to blank or cut, right click to access that action. Of course the Simple Mode would hide all the "advanced" info of a title, such as vts this pre that post this reuse this and so on....Think of clicking on title as activating LINKPGCN 8. :p

Just a thought.

(Hope Jsoto's not too engrossed with his new toy, plasma tv)

[CoNS]

@surf: That could be a nice solution. As you describe, it would imply a simplified interface and a different way of showing the titles (the "DVDShrink" way should work, I agree. Users are familiar with this way of viewing the DVD, too), as a part of the problem for nOObs is the complexity of the DVD structure.

However, you would still have to use another tool (software player) to see the flow of the specific DVD in order to identify what to blank. That's why my initial approach was to suggest a new, "small" tool which uses opensource playback functionality and some code to create a VobBlanker project ini file from the users selections...Originally posted by r0lZ
Certainly not! The preview option is there to show exactly when a PGC is played, and what is his video contents. If it is a black frame, you may want to kill the playback.Hmmm, of course I understand what you mean, but think of it this way: If the DVD is played in a software/standalone player the user will not notice this black frame as the disc will proceed to the next step instantly. In the trace/preview in PgcEdit, however, it stalls/hangs on each of these 0:00 (0 buttons) PGCs. As I mentioned I was working on a Disney DVD (you know, with a zillion titles not to mention PGCs), which had a very large number of these 0:00 (0 button) menu PGCs in the original disc.

Also, I noticed on the same disc that when I blanked a title in PgcEdit, it was also set to 0:00 (0 buttons) in the PGC overview panel to the left. But this blanked PGC, however, didn't show up in the trace?Originally posted by r0lZ
Also, please note that with this method, you will probably omit to blank some unwanted material. For example, FBI warnings are often in several languages, but only one warning is shown. The selection is based on your preferred language setup, or on the option you choosed in the language selection menu of the DVD.Yeah, well, the way surf suggested would eliminate this problem. However, I don't know about your setup, but my language settings are the same for my software and my standalone setup. So what I see when I play the disc in a software player, is also what I want to work on blanking wise. If not, I can select a different language in a language selection menu in the DVD. Is it possible to set the preferred language for the trace function in PgcEdit? This would solve the small problem you describe, too, if you could easily change back and forth between the different languages on the disc this way.

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by CoNS
Hmmm, of course I understand what you mean, but think of it this way: If the DVD is played in a software/standalone player the user will not notice this black frame as the disc will proceed to the next step instantly.That's not always true. I've seen some DVDs authored in 16:9, but with these small menus in 4:3. This forces my 16:9 TV to switch back to 4:3 for 2 seconds between two 16:9 titles, which is really unpleasant.
Also, on some DVDs, these dummies-not-really-dummies are not single frames, but may be upto 10 or 12 frames long. If the STC discontinuity bit is set, these cells may be displayed for 2.5 seconds, which is noticable.
And if you use VobBlanker to split a movie, you will end up with many black frames to play in sequence. That can take a while.

In the trace/preview in PgcEdit, however, it stalls/hangs on each of these 0:00 (0 buttons) PGCs. As I mentioned I was working on a Disney DVD (you know, with a zillion titles not to mention PGCs), which had a very large number of these 0:00 (0 button) menu PGCs in the original disc.Anyway, I can't know in advance if the content of the cell is pure black, or an interesting still frame (although it is perhaps possible to assume that a single frame with no still time is probably a black frame.)
I'll see if it is possible to add an option to avoid the preview for these black frames, but anyway, I don't recommend using it.

Also, I noticed on the same disc that when I blanked a title in PgcEdit, it was also set to 0:00 (0 buttons) in the PGC overview panel to the left. But this blanked PGC, however, didn't show up in the trace?That's because the function that blanks the PGCs do also a Kill Playback (by default). Therefore, the playback is not reached anymore. BTW, IMHO, killing playback on there small black PGCs is the best solution. I do it always (except on Disney's games). ;)

Yeah, well, the way surf suggested would eliminate this problem. However, I don't know about your setup, but my language settings are the same for my software and my standalone setup. So what I see when I play the disc in a software player, is also what I want to work on blanking wise. If not, I can select a different language in a language selection menu in the DVD. Is it possible to set the preferred language for the trace function in PgcEdit? This would solve the small problem you describe, too, if you could easily change back and forth between the different languages on the disc this way. Yes. The Trace -> Virtual Player Setup menu allow the user to select the default language for the menus (LUs), the audio track, and the subtitles.

[Surf]

@CoNS: I have become a quasi Disney expert with this forum help. :p

Why not choose break at every preview and use kill playback function at unwanted pgc INCLUDING those 0:00 ones?

@r0lZ: I noticed the kill playback function is exactly the same as copying the post commands over to the tail end of the precommand area except the NOP. So what's this NOP(no operation) is for?

[CoNS]

Originally posted by Surf
Why not choose break at every preview and use kill playback function at unwanted pgc INCLUDING those 0:00 ones?Yeah, well, I just thought that the simplified blanking process wouldn't seem as simple if the trace stops a dozen times on those 0:00 black frames (Disney DVD) without the user being able to see what's going on, that's all...

[Surf]

lol, spoilt rotten, aren't we?

How about this pro-active approach? Kill playback on every one of these 0 second pgc? You know it's nothing or it's a fbi still with 15 seconds display time...

[CoNS]

Actually, my secret agenda is to run r0lZ tired and then eventually lure him into implementing a macro so that I'd just have to press esc once, and it'll all be fixed, blanked, shrinked and zipped up ready to burn! I'm thinking an appropriate name for such a tool would be "Painkiller" or "Duke Nukem" as I've heard that "Neutron Bomb" has already been taken... :p

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by Surf
@r0lZ: I noticed the kill playback function is exactly the same as copying the post commands over to the tail end of the precommand area except the NOP. So what's this NOP(no operation) is for? If there are break in the original pre-commands of the PGC, they are converted to GOTOs. The NOP line is the target for the GOTOs.
Also, the NOP makes it easy to see which commands are the original ones, and which were added.
And, if you want to revert to the original behaviour, all you have to do is to delete all lines that follow the NOP. Note that there is no guarantee that things will still work, because the kill playback is now a sophisticated macro that will change some original commands in some cases. (Break is a frequent and simple case, but there are sometime other commands that needs to be modified.)

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by CoNS
Actually, my secret agenda is to run r0lZ tired and then eventually lure him into implementing a macro so that I'd just have to press esc once, and it'll all be fixed, blanked, shrinked and zipped up ready to burn! I'm thinking an appropriate name for such a tool would be "Painkiller" or "Duke Nukem" as I've heard that "Neutron Bomb" has already been taken... :p Funny. But PgcEdit will never be a one-click solution to have your DVD behave as you want. Simply because what you want may be verry different than what another user wants. And I like to keep PgcEdit powerful. IMHO, one-click programs are never powerful enough.

[mrslacker]

I personally don't think a unified magic black-box program is necessary... However, I find myself using both PgcEdit and VobBlanker to get the job done. I use trace mode to identify the locations of material I can do without, typing those locations into notepad as I go. Then I use VobBlanker to squash the cells or titles that I wrote down. Using VobBlanker alone involves a blind search.

To name a just few of the unique features of each program that I might use in blanking a disc:

VobBlanker
Cell level blanking.
Reuse menu LUs.
Motion2Still.
...

PgcEdit
More detailed representation of the DVD structure.
Traces through it! (brilliant)
Countless flow control capabilities (command & table editing).
...

Combining these features doesn't seem trivial to me. Just making room for all that visually would be a serious challenge.

The only feature I desire is a button in PgcEditPrevew to record the cell's location in some scratch notepad. I'm too lazy to manually record everything! :D Then I could take that to VobBlanker. The previous suggestion of writting a project for VB would be quite amazing. If only VB would make the tough choices all over each time it loads a project, the load would be off your shoulders, r0lZ.

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by mrslacker
The only feature I desire is a button in PgcEditPrevew to record the cell's location in some scratch notepad. I'm too lazy to manually record everything! :D Then I could take that to VobBlanker. The previous suggestion of writting a project for VB would be quite amazing. If only VB would make the tough choices all over each time it loads a project, the load would be off your shoulders, r0lZ. If I add the feature to record the cells to be blanked, it's not verry difficult to create an INI for VobBlanker. I need only some help from jsoto to understand his INI format.
But before, I have some important things to complete in PgcEdit...

[zacoz]

Originally posted by r0lZ
If I add the feature to record the cells to be blanked, it's not verry difficult to create an INI for VobBlanker. I need only some help from jsoto to understand his INI format.Just catching up with this thread, and must say that I don't think I would want to go back to a 1 click solution. They invariably cannot be all things to all people (or dvds). I believe there would be a significant enough number of the dvds I've processed that would have bits left unprocessed simply because the authoring is unusual enough to make it extrememly difficult to be completely catered for.

I owe what little knowledge I have of basic dvd layout / commands to PgcEdit & VobBlanker. I have been (and still are) enjoying the learning process and thankful for the additional control I have over processing.

That said, I would love the proposed PgcEdit functionality of cells that have had "Kill PGC playback" applied being passed via the ini file to VobBlanker and automatically marked for blanking. I wouldn't want it to commence processing automatically though, as I frequently want to also blank some other language menu's or motion2still large menu's.

Will await your completion of "important things" with eagerness r0lZ.

[CoNS]

mrslacker and zacoz: I agree with you guys 99.9 %... An option to carry the blanking selections from PgcEdit to VobBlanker would be very useful. And judging from r0lZ' comments this feature on it's way, too. Cool. :)

However, my initial idea about a new tool with a very simple GUI, like DVDShrink, combined with a full DVD playback function to see what to blank was not meant for myself. I, too, have now learned the details about the DVD structures etc. needed to be able to blank any kind of material with VobBlanker and PgcEdit... I've slowly obtained this knowledge step by step during the last six months or so by testing/fumbling around with both tools and carefully studying the posts here at this forum.

A simple tool, however, would have made it possible for the many new users, who don't have the knowledge of the complex and irrational DVD structure and would rather not spend the time to dig into this stuff, to be able to do one of the most essential sides of DVD editing: Blanking!

Believe me, there are quite a few users out there who're pulling their hair, just wondering how in the world to do the trick with removing unwanted material in order to save space and get rid of annoying trailers, studio logos, warnings etc. Originally posted by r0lZ
If I add the feature to record the cells to be blanked, it's not very difficult to create an INI for VobBlanker. I need only some help from jsoto to understand his INI format.If the feature to record the cells to be blanked is implemented, perhaps you could give the user the choice to 1) Kill Playback of all of the selected material, using the built in PgcEdit macros, or 2) Create a project ini file for VobBlanker and launch VobBlanker?

As I'm not sure jsoto follows the discussion in this thread, I've sent him a pm about your request of information about the structure of the VobBlanker project file.

[jeanl]

I agree with you CoNS, finding how to/ where to/ blank does take a lot of time for a newbie. You have to learn many terms such as VTS, PGC, cells, menu domain, title domain etc. We all take this for granted, but I painfully remember how long that took me, and how frustrating it was to feel your way in the night!
Ideally, the blanking feature would belong in Shrink. It's really frustrating that we can't add that! But that's the way it is :(.

I believe that rewriting the UI for vobblanker to look more like DVD Shrink's (i.e., instead of presenting material in a DVD-architecture centric manner, present it in an intuitive user-centric manner) would be a tremendous endeavor because there isn't a clear cut between the UI and the "engine" in jsoto's code. It would be very hard to drive his "engine" (the part of the code that actually manipulates the VOBs/IFOs) from another UI.

jeanl

[mrslacker]

Originally posted by CoNS
If the feature to record the cells to be blanked is implemented, perhaps you could give the user the choice to 1) Kill Playback of all of the selected material, using the built in PgcEdit macros, or 2) Create a project ini file for VobBlanker and launch VobBlanker?
Yeah, but when would you want to kill playback, but not blank? :p

Originally posted by jeanl
I agree with you CoNS, finding how to/ where to/ blank does take a lot of time for a newbie. You have to learn many terms such as VTS, PGC, cells, menu domain, title domain etc.
That's the beauty of PgcEdit. It's the best learning tool I could have asked for... although IfoEdit was a help at the dawn of time.

[CoNS]

Originally posted by jeanl
I believe that rewriting the UI for vobblanker to look more like DVD Shrink's (i.e., instead of presenting material in a DVD-architecture centric manner, present it in an intuitive user-centric manner) would be a tremendous endeavor because there isn't a clear cut between the UI and the "engine" in jsoto's code. It would be very hard to drive his "engine" (the part of the code that actually manipulates the VOBs/IFOs) from another UI.I've also pm'ed jsoto asking if he'd consider adding a simplified version of the VobBlanker GUI, as surf suggested in this thread. Unfortunately he declined, answering "Too much work, and nothing more added that a better GUI"... :(

But there's still the solution with combining VobBlanker with another standalone program via VobBlanker's project .ini file... It could be PgcEdit in the trace/preview mode, or it could be a new program with a more simplified UI for newbies - if someone has the time and energy to find out what exactly is going on inside one of the available opensource software players.Originally posted by mrslacker
Yeah, but when would you want to kill playback, but not blank? :p...whenever you're not in need of freeing space/reducing size. In these situations it would be easier simply to stay in PgcEdit and let this program do all the work instead of creating a project .ini file and sending it to VobBlanker.

[jeanl]

Originally posted by CoNS
whenever you're not in need of freeing space/reducing size. In these situations it would be easier simply to stay in PgcEdit and let this program do all the work instead of creating a project .ini file and sending it to VobBlanker.
I absolutely agree with that!
jeanl

[mrslacker]

Why is this such a priority? Is VobBlanker really that daunting? I think it's perfecto. OK, besides the playback/preview issues. Are your friends complaining about the learning curve, or is it frustrating that so many people use DVD Shrink when it is not totally necessary? I guess I somewhat understand these points.

It just seems like a lot to ask of these authors, who are already doing it for fun.

Anyway, from my FreeBSD (UNIX) use, I would start with MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/dload.html) as a source for a player that doesn't rely on DirectShow filters. It uses the ubiquitous libavcodec (among other OSS libraries) for playback. Xine (http://xinehq.de/) media player might be helpful, although it doesn't seem to ever have been ported to Windows. So that could make it difficult. I know nothing of the licensing restrictions of either set of code, but I'd guess GPL or BSD licensing. If I had the time and skill, I would be enthusiastic to help. Unfortunately... :( But, I'll be glad to help any way I can. ;)

EDIT: So true about the kill playback scenario, CoNS.

[Dimad]

Originally posted by CoNS
Sounds very interesting, Dimad. I'll keep an eye open for v3 of DVDRemake Pro. When do you suppose you'll have a public release ready?

Here it is: public release of DRM v3 has happend :)