CCE Encoding Failed

[kenkong]

Using rebuilder 0.84 and CCE SP 2.66, I keep getting this message on a dvd I'm trying to backup, "cce encoding failed: cbr vbv overflow Frame #153 (00:00:06:11) I 18296 (2.3) max 15118.51 (1.9) rel 3177.49 1.21 qsv 112.00 -> 112.00" I'll click ok and it will go ahead and finish encoding then it will abort during the rebuild phase saying that there are missing frames or something to that effect (I failed to write down the exact error). Can anyone tell me what this means and what I can do do get past it?

[pg55555]

I would suggesty try encoding with CCE in OPV mode.

Or try the free HC encoder instead of CCE

[jdobbs]

This is related to the "MISSING M2V FILES" problem. Could you try the test listed in this link (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93540) and see if it has an affect? Thanks.

[kenkong]

Tried that fix and it had no effect on the problem.

[pg55555]

Did you try the OPV?

[jdobbs]

Just so I'm clear, it wasn't a fix. That was one of the only CCE parameters that has changed recently... I just wanted to see if it made any difference.

[kenkong]

understood. Could you explain why it's only doing it to this dvd and not the others i've backed up since? Is this a hit or miss problem?

[onesoul]

@ kenkong

Could you try CCE again with VBR_Bias at 40 and see if same error occurs?

edit: bias has only effect on multipass mode so try again with multipass.

Thanks

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by kenkong
understood. Could you explain why it's only doing it to this dvd and not the others i've backed up since? Is this a hit or miss problem? I what I have observerd of the CCE problem is correct, the new engine is much more sensitive to high bitrate demands. It gets VBV errors in areas that never happens in previous versions (with the exact same settings). The DVD you are trying probably has one of those high-demand areas. The workaround I added a couple of versions ago was to raise the maximum bitrate.

[kenkong]

not sure if it matters or not, but fyi, the part that errors on the dvd has a static background, much like the HBO logo that has given me problems in the past.

[pg55555]

It matters. Is one of those "high demanding" parts

Have you tried the suggestions:
- VBR_Bias at 40
- OPV mode

Another encoder such as HC?

[kenkong]

I went with DVD Shrink on Max. Smoothness and it acutally came out better than anything CCE has done with this title.

[onesoul]

Originally posted by kenkong
I went with DVD Shrink on Max. Smoothness and it acutally came out better than anything CCE has done with this title. Don't take that for granted but if it's good for you then it's ok.
Too bad you didn't try the suggestions before jumping in dvdshrink. We wanted to know if it would work :)

[kenkong]

i did, the OPV worked but didn't come out all that well. I'll try the 40 bias now and report back later.

[kenkong]

VBR_bias at 40 failed.

[Fishman0919]

Try VBR_bias at 0 ... if it is a hard to to encode spot and you are turn VBR_bias higher...it's only making it harder for the encoder to encode that problem spot. OPV might have worked because it uses VBR_bias 0

[onesoul]

bias at 0 might work but the encode will not come out well as it happened in opv.

I had a strong feeling it would help stabilize bitrate and prevent cce from aborting, oh well, maybe a even higher bias would do the trick.

Cheers

[Fishman0919]

@onesoul,

Why is it so hard for you to understand how VBR bias effects encoding quality?

@everyone,

This is a guide posted here on Doom9..."Getting the best out of CCE"
It shows you how to get the better encoding from cce at the lowest possible bitrate. http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/cce-advanced.htm

Anyone running CCE Sp (the guide shows cce sp 2.50 but any ver will work)with DVD-RB can do a easy test with this to show you how VBR bias is effected by raising and lowering it.

I'm writing this using cce sp 2.70.02...Run DVD-RB as normal.. any time during the main movie encoding where there is a fast action scene(or any part, just not a still) abort DVD-RB and close dvd-rb... then open up CCE SP, go to "File" option at the top, then "open', then "project"... find in your dvd-rb D2VAVS folder the ITEM.ECL file and open it.
Now double click on the file in the main cce window, then change the encoding mode to "1 pass VBR" and change "Q" to 60, change min bitrate to 0 (or 500, or what you want) then change Max bitrate to 9000.... Now click "Encode Now" and let CCE do it's thing.

When CCE is done, change encoding mode back to Multipass VBR and change min bitrate to what you set it at before(if it changed) and do the same for Max bitrate... change avg bitrate to 2000 ( or any low rate)..uncheck in the video information file section "Create New" then click on the "VBR bit alloction.." button... next to the graph you will see a a "Bitrate" and "Q.scale" button, click on "Q.scale"... now you can uses the "-10s" and "+10s" to move through the scene... now find part of the q graph line that is not so straight... now move the V/C bar or click on the V/C up and down arrows to change the V/C (you may have to give your computer a sec to recal the line)... doing this you can see the effect changing the V/C (VBR bias) has on an Encoding with CCE SP... Ideally you want the the background of the Q.scale graph to be all green (as you change v/c you will see the background color change...green is good, gray or no color is OK and red is subpar)... finding a spot with the v/c where as much of the graph is green and the line is fairly straight(or as straight as it can be)...now that is the Ideal v/c for that file.

If you like slow scene to look better you can see by raising the V/C that the easy to encode areas get lower and the hard to encode scenes go up (the higher the Q.scale the less quality from CCE you will get) by finding a spot with V/C that has as much of the graph green and as much of the graph as low as possible... that is where you will get your best encoding with cce.

[onesoul]

@ Fishman0919

I think you are reading only my posts, if you had paid attention you'd see that kenkong said that OPV worked but didn't come out well. And that's the reason I said bias at 0 wouldn't come out well too because it's similar to OPV.

About the rest, you can't judge picture quality just by looking to a graph.

[Fishman0919]

@onesoul,

you can't judge picture quality just by looking to a graph.

True, but you can see how it will effect the quality of the encoding according to how cce has read the file from the first pass (the .VAF pass) and having a lower Q.scale Will give you a better encoding.

I think you are reading only my posts, if you had paid attention you'd see that kenkong said that OPV worked but didn't come out well. And that's the reason I said bias at 0 wouldn't come out well too because it's similar to OPV.


No I did read all of the post but is seems like your solution to every problem with CCE is to tell the person to try VBR bias of 40... but in fact the problems that CCE SP 2.70 is having with hard to encode scenes is because the encoder is running out of bitrate on the hard to encode parts on the hi end and turning up the VBR bias will make it worse.

If you like, email Cinema Craft like I did and they will explain to you that it is a known issue and a solution is being worked on... and a temporary fix with CCE SP is to lower the V/C (in some cases to 0)on the trouble areas and in most cases will yield a better encoding.