xvid suitable for short streaming video?

[tremendous]

i'm working on a website for a rock band, and they want short "video of the week" updates. i'm trying to decide on the best format to provide them in. the guy who films these things can provide a variety of formats - WMV, quicktime, ... and his computer's in for repair so he can't tell me what else just now...! i'm pretty sure he can do full-quality full-frame type stuff too though. he's got some pretty pro stuff.

i'm pretty keen on providing as few different formats/sizes as possible, as it's easier on the server and less effort for us. and it's got to be available for both mac and windows users (and linux is a plus of course) - and computerhopelesses should still be able to watch them.

so i've recently got into encoding xvids, and i wondered if they're suitable for short streaming video files? i've read that the codec is available on mac, win and linux. we're talking between 1 and 3 minutes (mostly in the 1-2 minute range) of things like band recording, band performing, etc.

i've provided WMV and quicktime alternatives before, in a choice of three sizes each and it was a complete pain in the anus. then i tried flash video, but the importer seems very badly written and it beefs the filesize a great deal. i'm hoping i've found the answer.

thanks a lot

[unskinnyboy]

Related?
-->http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93248
-->http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93181

[tremendous]

sorta, but they don't really mention xvid. i don't mind people having to download the codec. i guess i'm just asking if it's practical to stream xvid .avi and if 90% of people are able to view it. or, if there's a better way. i don't really know much about mpeg1s. i think the guy said he couldn't provide them, but i can look into it. i just figured the better compression of xvid had to be a good thing in this case.

[unskinnyboy]

Unreal media server (http://www.umediaserver.net/overview.html) is supposed to be able to stream avi. I haven't tried it myself, so I don't know for sure. Have a read and see if it works for you.

[tremendous]

maybe you all knew this already, but i didn't: i uploaded a 10mb .avi file to my server and pointed my browser to it. any media players i tried wouldn't open it until it had finished downloading. so i guess .avi files are a no go for streaming.

i'll be looking around for some way to make mpeg1 files then. what exactly makes them so much better than mpeg2 files? is there a way to make them for free?

thanks again

edit... oops, just noticed there's a whole forum of that right here... i'll go browse that.

[Selur]

here are my 2 cents:
It depends if you want a progressive download or if you use a real streaming server. Many people just use progressive download for playback since it doesn't require a streaming/media server and can be easily incoparated into a given page. Afaik avi isn't suited for progressive download and so an avi file will be played back after the whole download is finished.
Progressive download should work with e.g. .mp4 /.mov /.wmv / .nsv and might work (never tried) with .ogm and .mkv.

"I'll be looking around for some way to make mpeg1 files then. what exactly makes them so much better than mpeg2 files? is there a way to make them for free?"
Since mpeg1 is free and a mpeg1 decoder normally comes with the os users wouldn't have to install any codec&co, though the datarates required for a decend picture are far higher than for most other alternatives.

So first you should thing about what size (resolution, length, datasize, datarate/sec) should the video(s) have,...

If you now e.g. you want a e.g. 40kBit/s version for ISDN with a 160x? resolution, and 300/500 kBit/s version with a 320x? resolutin for DSL you could do a bunch of test encodes to see what quality the different codecs deliver. After that it's mainly a question of money,...
(depending of the number of expected downloads mpeg1 might be a good or bad decision)

Cu Selur

Ps.: personally I would try wmv(wmv&wma), mp4(mpeg4 simple profile&aac), on2, real, theora

[iradic]

i dont think mpeg1 is the choice for steaming or online videos but it sure provides great compatibility ... not only with computers - you can burn it on cd and play with (most) standalones!

[tremendous]

iradic, what would your choice for streaming be?

and yes, i'll need progressive download - i take it mpeg can do this?

cheers

[E-Male]

Originally posted by tremendous
maybe you all knew this already, but i didn't: i uploaded a 10mb .avi file to my server and pointed my browser to it. any media players i tried wouldn't open it until it had finished downloading. so i guess .avi files are a no go for streaming.
it's not a problem of avi, directshow players won't open files that are being accessed by an other program (like the browser downlaoding it)

try videolanclient (vlc)
it can play files during download (only tested with mpeg, try avi)

[tremendous]

thing is, i don't want people to have to download a certain player. i'm pretty keen on whatever i use being fine to stream through windows media player and whatever normal stuff is on a mac.
are you saying mpeg won't stream through WMP?

[iradic]

mpeg4 is the way to go...

but along which road you will have to choose for yourself... making compromises

i think 3ivx suite offers provides good mac<->win relationship (if you are willing to pay for it - although it's basically semi free - only audio encoder isnt free) - the closest to the "out of the box" solution both for you and viewer

other solutions are sets of two or more separate products (either free or not) - like xvid/ffdshow/ffmpeg - lame/faac - haali splitter - mp4box for example is one of them (this one is free) and you will have to do some search for "compatibility" options (or not if you make that compromise) - this one is a mix ( you - will have to strugle with encoding if you never done it before ... user - on win dload haali splitter only most of the people - on mac nothing if you get it right )

basically what i'm trying to say is if you are looking at freh install of win and mac (althoug i'm not mac user or experienced eith it) user will have to download or install something...
either win or mac user it doesnt matter (or does - you will have to decide)

this is really an endless story ...
correct me if i'm wrong... bye

[Selur]

Another option is the stuff from on2. VP6/7 delivers nice quality (see codec tests and read up in the forum) and by integrating their Java Applet(see: http://www.on2.com/applet/index.php) it should run on all systems with a java runtime on it. (though, the on2 stuff is not free)

Cu Selur