Which mpeg encoder is usefull

[sbp]

Hi

I'm capturing from a TV-card. (medion phillips saa7134 chip) using myHTPC and Top100's TV-plugin. In this TV-software it is possible to choose the differnt codecs that I have installed. Currently I'm using PicVideo MJPEG codec - and everything is fine - but I feel that the files are too big. Often a TV-show (90-120 min) is about 10 GB.

I have tried to capture directly into XVID (and DIVX) but here I experinece dropped frames. (Barton 2500, 512 MB DDR, 120 GB harddisk)

Therefore, I was thinking of capturing into MPEG2 - but I can't find a codec that shows up in the drop down list in my TV-capturing program - why (has it something to do with vfm or WDM format?).

Which mpeg2 encoder would you suggest?

Thanks
Steen

[jggimi]

The two most popular commercial MPEG-2 encoders used by the community here are CCE and TMPGEnc. The most popular free encoder is QuENC.

Doom9's CCE forum (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=37)
Doom9's TMPGEnc forum (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=36)
Doom9's Other MPEG-1/2 Encoders forum (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=62)

[reboot]

They will allow you to encode AFTER you've captured.
To cap directly to mpeg-2, try Intervideo WinDVR, or "WinVDR" (which is free). I know there are a couple of others...Sonic something will cap mpeg-2 also.

[emazur]

Like reboot said you need special programs for on-the-fly mpeg capture (another example is powervcr, well known but not great quality at low bitrates and has audio sync problems if you author the mpeg to dvd).

If you want to capture on the fly to xvid/divx, try to lower the capture resolution such as 352x240.

About the only reason to capture to picvideo mjpeg (or other lossless codec) is if you intend to edit and convert to mpeg or compressed avi (like divx) and still maintain high quality. But if hard disc space is an issue look at this page:
http://www.doom9.org/capture/capturing_vdub.html
and go down to where is says:
FFVFW MPEG4 compression
and follow the advice.
My system is a bit weaker than yours so I would sometimes drop frames when capturing at 720x480 resolution. But if I capture at 352x480 I don't drop frames and get a very high level of compression, so it doesn't take up alot of hard disc space.
Hope this helps

[sbp]

Thanks for all your input. As reboot and emazur indicates, I want to capture on the fly to mpeg. So I need the codec to show up in my TV-capturing program (where also XVID and DIVX and PicVideos MJPEG shows up).
I rarely process the capture later on, because mostly I will erase it after viewing it.

will FFVFW show up inside my TV-program (where I can choose the encoders) and will it allow me to capture in mpeg real-time?

Thanks
Steen

[emazur]

For on the fly mpeg 1 & 2 capture you MUST use special programs for them such as the ones already mentioned. You can't (as far as I know) use an avi capture soft such as virtual vcr, iuvcr, or virtualdub for this purpose. Why, I don't know, but I had searched like you in the past for such a codec but never found one. I thought I did once with a codec called ympeg but it doesn't work.
FFVFW is not MPEG 1 or 2, it will result in an avi file. Bottom line is that if you insist in MPEG, you gotta use something like WinDVD Recorder (I know a 30 day trial is available) or PowerVCR.
I think the main purpose for capturing on the fly to mpeg is if someone wants to make a quick and easy DVD or VCD. But you said you're going to delete your files afterwards, so why not capture to avi instead? That way you don't gotta buy some new software (or optionally, hardware) for mpeg capture. FFVFW, if you capture at 352x480 will give something close to a lossloss (=pretty!) capture but with reasoable filesize, certainly alot better than 720x480 picvideo q18+ or huffyuv. It's a free codec, and if you don't like it there's no skin off your back since you can just uninstall it and try something else.

[sbp]

Thanks for your reply.

I don't insist on capturing in mpeg.
I just want a smaller file than MJPEG and I thought that mpeg encoding would be less CPU intensive compared to avi capturing (as I have tried XVID and DVIX - and always had problems with dropped frames).

So do you think using FFVFM wil be less CPU intensive than DVIX or XVID?

And the last question: In order to install FFVFM I install FFDSHOW (as FFVFM is included in FFDSHOW) - is that correct?

Thanks
Steen

[emazur]

Glad to be off help. Well, if you don't need mpeg, then I'll discuss the avi capturing options.
Before talking ffvfw, maybe you should try what I said before- capture divx in a lower resolution. This gives you the double bonus of greatly reduced cpu and hard disk space requirements. Try 352x240 with a video bitrate of between 1000 and 2000 kbps and see if you're happy with the results. Personally I wouldn't try compressing the audio on the fly as it may cause sync problems (not an expert on this though, and you can compress it later in virtualdub if you like).

If you're not satisfied with those results, then maybe try ffvfw at 352x480 following the settings from the previous link i gave. The disadvantage here is that you'll get a larger (but not too bad) file size. The advantage is higher quality, plus it's better if you decide to later compress the file to mpeg using tmpegenc because you're using a semi-lossless file. Note that the capture at 352x480 will look squashed in a window, but fine at fullscreen if using ffvfw (not so sure about divx or xvid at this resolution, I think they maybe look squashed or have big borders on playback).

So bottom line is, I recommend you first try divx capture at 352x240. If cpu strain is too much, configure the codec in your capture program, it will bring up the divx window with 2 tabs- general and video (I'm using divx 5.11 here, it's probably still the same). Under video, uncheck the "psychovisual enhancements" box to lower cpu burden

edit: for ffvfw, download the file from the doom9 link I provided earlier. I also thought ffdshow would work, but it doesn't show up the the codec drop down box, so use ffvfw instead.

[sbp]

Again thank your for all your input.

A short follow up. I installed FDSHOW and it included FFVFW - so I don't know why it doesn't show up in your drop-down list, I installed it with all the avisynth and virtualdub plug-ins, I don't know if that makes a difference.
This is a realy good software, I didn't know that it allows you to encode in so many different formats - even a MJPEG - which seems just as good and as fast as the PicVideo MJPEG encoder I'm using right now (and it is not for free).

Using the MPEG4 format in FFVFW I can capture from my TV-card, just as you suggested - so thank you.

But I have found an even better solution; the new HDX4 format is so fast that I can even encode the audio into MP3, without any dropped frames. If you choose a quality setting of 85-90% inside the HDX4 encoder, you end up with very nice looking video, and I have no audio - video sync problems.

So I think that this will be my future way of capturing.
Steen

[emazur]

That's interesting that you were able to get those codecs to show up with ffdshow and I wasn't. Perhaps we were using different versions. Could you tell me the link where you downloaded yours (did you download it recently)? That free mjpeg codec sounds pretty nice too.
I've never heard of this hdx4 but it sounds interesting. At what resolution are you capturing with this codec? If you can get 720x480 w/o dropped frames I think I'll have to give it a try as well.

[sbp]

Hi Emazur.

I just downloaded the most recent version I could find. FFDSHOW 20050328
from http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Codec-Packs-Video-Codecs/FFDShow-MPEG-Video-Decoder.shtml

The HDX4 codec was actually also described by DOOM9 as the fastest codec in his most recent codec shoot-out: http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/codecs-104-1.htm

Yes I capture at 720x480 without problems.
You can also do a seach after hdx4 at this forum.

Regards
Steen