NTSC -> PAL Converter

[xons]

I got a problem, I want to play my DVD's on my DVD-player.
But my TV only plays PAL, not NTSC. The sound is good, the visual is just in Black and White.

So I'm looking for product's like this:
http://www.kanection.co.uk/product.php/40/1/
or better:
http://www.avdeals.com/videoconverters/evc1550.htm

So does anyone know a affordable NTSC->PAL-Converter?
Prefferably in Holland, cuz that's where I live.

I hope I'm suppose to be here with my questions.

[scharfis_brain]

get a DVD player with PAL60 support

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by scharfis_brain
get a DVD player with PAL60 support Agreed... A better option by far ;)


Cheers

[xons]

Originally posted by scharfis_brain
get a DVD player with PAL60 support

And these players convert NTSC to PAL automatically?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by xons
And these players convert NTSC to PAL automatically? Yes... they can convert NTSC which runs at 60Hz to pseudo PAL at 60Hz (instead of the usual 50Hz).

This implementation can also be found on many VHS VCR's too!


Cheers

[Doom9]

today, many players, especially the non major brand ones, can even output to PAL 50Hz for those TVs that can't handle PAL60 (it happens.. the older your TV is the more likely it doesn't support anything but PAL50).

[scharfis_brain]

@doom9: I will NOT even try to whatch such 'conversion' because motion will get jerky!

[xons]

Well, I searched with google for PAL50-DVD-players, but I couldn't find anything interresting.
Does anybody know a brand or something that I can find in Holland.

And how much does a DVD player with PAL50 cost?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by xons
Well, I searched with google for PAL50-DVD-players, but I couldn't find anything interresting.
Does anybody know a brand or something that I can find in Holland.

And how much does a DVD player with PAL50 cost? You should be looking for players that offer PAL60 output (as an option), not PAL50!

All European players are PAL50 (50Hz) already ;)

EDIT: By-the-way... what make and model is your TV?


Cheers

[scharfis_brain]

His TV will support PAL60 because it displays NTSC in B/W
as he said above.

[planet1]

just a thought:

if your VCR has NTSC playback support (only PAL60 conversion - not real NTSC), try to hook your dvd player onto the vcr's input. If your lucky the VCR will produce a PAL60 picture.


well if the EDTV standard PALplus would have been a success, i guess 100Hz TVs would be widespread by now and Europe ready to embrace its own HDTV (by DVB - not just "copy" the US stuff :D ).
But since that did not happen we still struggle with issues that better belonged to the past...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by planet1
just a thought:

if your VCR has NTSC playback support (only PAL60 conversion - not real NTSC), try to hook your dvd player onto the vcr's input. If your lucky the VCR will produce a PAL60 picture. I doubt it... And don't forget certain DVD's will contain MacroVision!


Cheers

[xons]

But just to be clear,
everybody thinks I should buy a DVD-player that supports PAL60?
And that I should stop searching for a NTSC->PAL converter?

Cuz, I really wanted a NTSC->PAL converter.
(I made a bet with an idiot, that the problem is the NTSC-PAL thing, and not something else)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Have you checked to see if the DVD player has options to "force" PAL or PAL60 output signals?

Some players do... but are set to "auto".


Cheers

[xons]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Have you checked to see if the DVD player has options to "force" PAL or PAL60 output signals?

Some players do... but are set to "auto".


Cheers

DVD-player:
I don't think so, I got a Sony DVP-NS305.
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=1114&Search=Search&

TV:
And I'm sure that my tv can only receive PAL.
It's a Philips 28PT4503
DUTCH: http://www.kieskeurig.nl/nl/product.nsf/search1/Philips%2028PT4503.htm

[Leak]

Originally posted by xons
But just to be clear,
everybody thinks I should buy a DVD-player that supports PAL60?
And that I should stop searching for a NTSC->PAL converter?

Yes. Converting 60 FPS to 50 is something that is often even only done half-assedly when companies produce DVDs, so how good do you think a plain old DVD player will be at it?

About all European TVs that were sold in the last 15-20 years or so will happily play PAL60, i.e. 60FPS video (the video on a DVD is neither PAL nor NTSC, it's an MPEG stream) being encoded as PAL instead of NTSC when played back; this only has to do with how the signal fed into the TV is modulated and not with the image data itself, so it's practically lossless.

You'll get playback at the original frame rate and speed with the original frame size on your TV - what more can you ask for? :D

(My Elta 8883 even has a button on it's remote to switch between PAL60 and NTSC; maybe look into the manual of your player if there's a similar function...)

np: Markus Guentner - Tegernheim (Aepfel & Birnen)

[MSlv]

How does this NTSC->PAL60 convertion work? I have a Philips DVP632/02 and it has such function (output PAL/NTSC/Multi), but there is a slight difference when converting from NTSC to PAL. I can't tell very good what, it's not the motion, but it has sth to do with the picture (like more flickering when you have white image on black bg).

[Leak]

Originally posted by MSlv
How does this NTSC->PAL60 convertion work? I have a Philips DVP632/02 and it has such function (output PAL/NTSC/Multi), but there is a slight difference when converting from NTSC to PAL. I can't tell very good what, it's not the motion, but it has sth to do with the picture (like more flickering when you have white image on black bg).

The video on a DVD is, as I said, neither NTSC nor PAL, it's just a compressed video stream. Depending on whether it's set to NTSC or PAL60, your DVD player produces an encoded signal that's either NTSC or PAL60.

The difference between NTSC and PAL is mostly how colors are encoded (they're both a way of tacking color information onto a black&white TV signal so b&w sets will still produce a picture), so it's not impossible that the TV handles them differently; on my TV the colors are slightly different when comparing NTSC and PAL...

[MSlv]

Originally posted by Leak
The video on a DVD is, as I said, neither NTSC nor PAL, it's just a compressed video stream. Depending on whether it's set to NTSC or PAL60, your DVD player produces an encoded signal that's either NTSC or PAL60.
I thought PAL DVDs were encoded at 720x576 25fps and NTSC DVDs at 720x480 30fps (29.97) so the video is PAL or NTSC. It's just that it makes no difference when you play DVDs on the PC.

So PAL at 60Hz means PAL signal outputted at 60fps or what?

[Leak]

Originally posted by MSlv
So PAL at 60Hz means PAL signal outputted at 60fps or what?

PAL60 means a 720x480 image at 59.94 fields per second encoded as PAL so every TV that supports PAL60 will be able to display it. Of course, there's also a lot of TVs that will happily display pure NTSC in Europe...

[video]

Originally posted by Leak
PAL60 means a 720x480 image at 59.94 fields per second encoded as PAL so every TV that supports PAL60 will be able to display it. Of course, there's also a lot of TVs that will happily display pure NTSC in Europe...

true. even 25 year constructions coming with TBA520 can decode PAL60. however PAL60 looks a little bit horizontally compressed on old TVs. Since 1990 muntinorm TVs are sold in europe, they can do: PAL B,G,D,K,I,N,L NTSC3.58, NTSC4.43 (50 fps, 576i NTSC - mainly used is south america). TV companies manufacturing 'world receiver' TVs for a while, expect USA - where i think there are FCC rules to support only NTSC3.58/ATSC today

[xons]

hhmm... this is weird.

On the videohelp.com there's this about my DVD-player:
http://www.geocities.com/s_aziez/NS305.jpg

"Multisystem PAL/NTSC Convert" what does this mean?
Can my DVD-player convert it itself?




http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=1114&Search=Search&

[planet1]

hey xons

according to your player's (Sony DVP-NS305) manual it can output NTSC and PAL. Whether that includes PAL60 you have to check by yourself - follow the key combination on page 16.


http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3073381112.pdf

http://www.sonydigital-link.com/manuals/manuals.asp


good luck ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

It does not look like it will output PAL60...

Anyway, here's an extract from the relevant sections of the manual: -

http://img72.exs.cx/img72/8741/coloursysinfo7lc.gif

Looks like an external NTSC to PAL converter is the only option!


Cheers

[jojo15]

Hi,
i've got a similar problem like xons, (see my thread here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91899))
but his tv will playback the video in b&w, while mine plays it in black and white and the also screen rolls,
now i read through this thread, and it seems to me that i should get another dvd player, but the question is, which one??
Thx in advance!

[xons]

Originally posted by planet1
hey xons

according to your player's (Sony DVP-NS305) manual it can output NTSC and PAL. Whether that includes PAL60 you have to check by yourself - follow the key combination on page 16.


http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3073381112.pdf

http://www.sonydigital-link.com/manuals/manuals.asp


good luck ;)


Nope doesn't work. Which is a big shame.
It would have been cool though.

When I hold the pause button and then press (and hold) the ON/OFF button the light turns green but it doesn't turn red.

I guess I should begin to search for a DVD-player that supports PAL60. :(
Unless someone know a other solution (hopefully), or knows where I can buy a NTSC-PAL converter.

THQ.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by xons
Unless someone know a other solution (hopefully), or knows where I can buy a NTSC-PAL converter. Where do you live?


Cheers

[jojo15]

Originally posted by xons
I guess I should begin to search for a DVD-player that supports PAL60. :(
Unless someone know a other solution (hopefully), or knows where I can buy a NTSC-PAL converter.


I'd like to know this aswell,
and if i'm correct we both live in the Netherlands...

thnx in advance!

[xons]

Originally posted by jojo15
I'd like to know this aswell,
and if i'm correct we both live in the Netherlands...

thnx in advance!

He's Right, I live in The Netherlands

[SeeMoreDigital]

There must be plenty of places where you can buy a NTSC to PAL converter in the Netherlands (or via a European web site)!

Over here in the UK you can often find such devices in large electrical retail stores... Needless to say, some will offer better build quality than others, which will be reflected in the price. But most (if not all) will include connection leads and power supply unit.


Cheers

[jojo15]

Ok, i'll have a look at my local electronics store...
Thnx for the advice!

[xons]

I've searched everywhere:
And couldn't find it ANYWHERE

Online stores:
Conrad.nl
Conrad.com

Physical Stores:
Stuut en Bruyn
Handyman
MediaMarkt
Contact
Dixons
Radio Modern
a lot more....

these are just a few I remember checking

(some of these stores may only be know by dutch people)

[jojo15]

You have a "HB Electronica" in your city?
'Cause if you've been there in yours there's no need for me to check on the one in my city....

[Nocturno]

i find it really strange your tv doesn't support NTSC, but then again i never was a Philips fan.

i own a panasonic 70cm tv , when i switch my dvdplayer to NTSC my picture turns black and white...... and then it switches to color because the tv recognises the Ntsc signal.
i looked up the manual for your tv and i couldn't find any mention of Ntsc support.. it really amazes me, as everybody i know who has a widescreen tv can watch Ntsc dvd's no problem (in the Netherlands that is). your player is hooked up with a scart cable? how many slots does your tv have? try the other one. and offcourse set your player to Ntsc.

my player attempts to play ntsc divx at 25fps and pal at 23 if i don't set Pal/Ntsc manually..

[jojo15]

Ok,
i checked on this store i mentioned ("HB Electronica"), but neither do they have it (a NTSC to PAL (hardware) converter),
they said they've heard of it, but never heard of any store selling it, so they adviced me a good search on the net and that was it....

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well... I'm truly amazed that this product is so difficult to obtain in the Netherlands!


Cheers

[xons]

Originally posted by jojo15
Ok,
i checked on this store i mentioned ("HB Electronica"), but neither do they have it (a NTSC to PAL (hardware) converter),
they said they've heard of it, but never heard of any store selling it, so they adviced me a good search on the net and that was it....

Just about everyone (with any knowledge about it) said the same to me.

But SeeMoreDigital where do you live? Is it easy to obtain something like this in Country?

[jojo15]

Yeah could you send both of us one of those thingy's :p

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by xons
But SeeMoreDigital where do you live? Is it easy to obtain something like this in Country? I'll give you a clue.....

http://img18.exs.cx/img18/5558/smd3tg.png

Nottinghamshire, England... to be a little more precise ;)


Seriously though, in the UK we have companies such as...

Maplin, who sell this: -

http://img192.exs.cx/img192/787/maplin0fr.gif


Keene Electronics, who sell this: -

http://www.keene-electronics.co.uk/cgi-bin/bigcodesearch.pl?CN100P


Lekropacks, who sell this: -

http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/product/technical.asp?dept%5Fid=106&sku=73


Cheers

[scharfis_brain]

Are there papers, how these standards converters are working?

- field discharding/duplicating
- field blending
- MoComp (I doubt that)

EDIT: Nonsense, I wrote.
SMDs Convertors seem to only convert the chroma but not resolution & frequency.

[jojo15]

Damn, quite pricy stuff....
Isn't there an other option :D ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi scharfis_brain,

As you know, most of these "cheapo" devices will only convert the colour, so in this instance it sounds like xons would be okay but not jojo15 :eek:

It seems like jojo15 will require a far more sophisticated NTSC to PAL converter, which would be a whole lot more expensive... It might even be more cost effective for him to buy a new TV.


Cheers

[jojo15]

Hm...
that actually sucks :p ...

[SeeMoreDigital]

If you have a bit of spare cash lying around or are thinking of doing some serious NTSC to PAL (or vice versa) conversions... you could buy yourself an ACE Standards Converter :)

For more information look here: -

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58275


Cheers

[jojo15]

Ehm,
they cost 300 pounds, which is in euro's 440....
For that money i can buy a new tv.. :p, which seems, in my opinion a better option...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jojo15
For that money i can buy a new tv.. :p, which seems, in my opinion a better option... Indeed ;)

[jojo15]

I got one (last) idea lately..
isn't there an option which has a "wireless-sender" that i connect to the video-out of my pc and a "wireless-receiver" that i can connect to my tv??
Would be cool (if not too expensive) :p

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jojo15
I got one (last) idea lately..
isn't there an option which has a "wireless-sender" that i connect to the video-out of my pc and a "wireless-receiver" that i can connect to my tv??
Would be cool (if not too expensive) :p I must admit I don't know whether any of these kinds of devices can change the colour system of the source!

Might be an interesting approach ;)


Cheers

[xons]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I must admit I don't know whether any of these kinds of devices can change the colour system of the source!

Might be an interesting approach ;)


Cheers

I tried this, (wired). but a Wireless transmitter is too expensive.

It does work though, my PC can handle any kind of DVD, and the output is PAL so it's perfect.

[jojo15]

So all i have to do is get a mighty-long s-video-cable, to connect my comp (upstairs) to our tv (downstairs) and sit back and relax :D

[xons]

Originally posted by jojo15
So all i have to do is get a mighty-long s-video-cable, to connect my comp (upstairs) to our tv (downstairs) and sit back and relax :D

It could work, all you have to do is make a (how you say) double screen.

1 screen where you can work on, and surf on the internet with.
and
1 screen to watch dvd on.

[xons]

DVP-NS730P

Does this DVD-player qualify?