Black 16:9 Bar jagged after encoding?

[casperse]

Hi All

After encoding "Dawn of the dead" with version 0.69
and CCESP v2.67.00.27

The Movie is a Region 2 Org no premastering!!!

I get a jagged line between the picture and the black bars in the picture. I have attached a picture below.

It looks worse when the movie is running...:(

Please help
Cheers

[casperse]

Here is the attachment again...hope it works :D

[jptheripper]

can you post one of the movie .avs?

[dannyv]

Originally posted by casperse
Hi All

After encoding "Dawn of the dead" with version 0.69
and CCESP v2.67.00.27

The Movie is a Region 2 Org no premastering!!!

I get a jagged line between the picture and the black bars in the picture. I have attached a picture below.

It looks worse when the movie is running...:(

Please help
Cheers

This look like the upper field first flag got set in CCE. Not sure how you would correct this in RB but there's a setting for it in CCE.

Check the rebuilder.ecl file in any of the [item] sections for top_field=. I beleave that film is progressive and it should be set to 0 and most likly yours is set to 1. Usually its set to 1 only for interlaced meteral.

[casperse]

I deleted the files but I did a new one and here are the result
Hope it will give a clue about what is wrong :D

V01001000002001.AVS
#------------------
# AVS File Created by DVD Rebuilder
# VOBID:02, CELLID:01
#------------------
LoadPlugin("C:\DVD-Tools\DVD Rebuilder\DVD Rebuilder v0-69\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll")
mpeg2source("F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD AC3\D2VAVS\V01.D2V",idct=7)
trim(120390,133861)
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)
ConvertToYUY2()

Thanks for any help or input you can give me ;)

[casperse]

This is from the REBUILDER.ECL any input on how I can fix this?
Using Rebuilder ? cant find the top_field in the file thow.
Thanks! :D

[item]
title=V01001000002001
aud_out=0
vaf_file=F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD AC3\D2VAVS\V01001000002001.vaf
aud_file=F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD AC3\D2VAVS\V01001000002001.mpa
file_focused=0
packet_size=2048
width=720
height=576
frame_rate_idx=3
cbr_brate=6000
vbr_brate_avg=5264
vbr_brate_min=0
vbr_brate_max=8552
seq_endcode=0
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
lum_level=0
aspect_ratio=3
gop_m=3
gop_nm=4
gop_hdr=12
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=0
fix_gop_length=0
samples_per_sec=44100
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1
progressive=1
alternate_scan=0
intra_dc_prec=2
aud_mode=0
tc_ref_frm=0
drop_frame=0
fix_vbv_delay=0
letter_box=0
pulldown_detect=0
offset_line=0
create_new_vaf=1
credits_tweak=0
credits_start=0x00000
credits_brate=1000
h_filter=0
h_filter_idx=8
dither=0
dither_max=8
qmat_idx=0
quality_prec=24
timecode=0x0000000
q_char_f=24
tc_offset=0
v_filter=0
v_filter_val=6
pict_name=
pict_type=3
pict_level=255
video_type=4
vid_file0=F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD AC3\D2VAVS\V01001000002001.m2v
vid_file1=F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD AC3\D2VAVS\V01001000002001.m2v
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
opv_q_factor=17
opv_brate_min=0
opv_brate_max=8552
vbr_bias=25
vbr_pass=3
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
non_linear=1
top_first=0 <----- is it this one? anyway of fixing this? I would hate to shrink it :scared:
mpeg1=0
mpeg1_cps=1

[file]
name=F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD AC3\D2VAVS\V01001000002001.avs
frame_first=0
frame_last=13472
encode_first=0
encode_last=13472

[dannyv]

Originally posted by casperse


top_first=0 <----- is it this one? anyway of fixing this? I would



Seems to already be set to 0 humm

Look in avs options and if you have it set to use decomb try it without decomb.

Also if you have disable interlaced check uncheck it and try the encode again.

[casperse]

Okay great I will try that tonight!
I havent used disable interlaced check so thats the same
But I have set it to use decomb I will disable that right away!

Thanks

[casperse]

DAAM! after 6 hours of encoding during the night it is still jagged.
H-E-L-P :confused:

*jdobbs anyway of settings this manually in the ini file?

[Boulder]

Is this line

FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)

still present in the avs files? It's the one that causes the thing.

[casperse]

Dont know have to check it when I get home!

But if it is the same then how do I correct it?
This "FieldDeinterlace(blend=false" option is not one I can set in the DVD Rebuilder program is it?

Thanks for your input! :D

[Boulder]

Check Options->AVS Options->Advanced (Expert) options. If "Deinterlace with DECOMB" is checked, uncheck it. This options puts the line in the AVS script when enabled.

[a small note]
In fact, I wonder why blend=false is used. Blend=true doesn't produce the marching ants on the edges and also keeps the motion smoother. If interpolation (blend=false) is desired, there are better options available, like TDeint or KernelDeint. Many people don't understand the basics of AVS scripting well enough to use the filter editor so it might be better to use one of those two instead of interpolating with FieldDeinterlace.
[/a small note]

[casperse]

That was the option I removed last night!
I have removed DECOMB option.
And the result is the same...

I will post the AVS when I get home.

EDITED:
#------------------
# AVS File Created by DVD Rebuilder
# VOBID:02, CELLID:01
#------------------
LoadPlugin("C:\DVD-Tools\DVD Rebuilder\DVD Rebuilder v0-69\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD DTS\D2VAVS\V01.D2V",idct=7)
trim(120390,133861)
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

And before:

#------------------
# AVS File Created by DVD Rebuilder
# VOBID:02, CELLID:01
#------------------
LoadPlugin("C:\DVD-Tools\DVD Rebuilder\DVD Rebuilder v0-69\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll")
mpeg2source("F:\1-DAWN OF THE DEAD AC3\D2VAVS\V01.D2V",idct=7)
trim(120390,133861)
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)
ConvertToYUY2()

Still same result :(

[The eDealer]

Why dont you crop and add boarders to clean the bar and focus the bitrate on the movie??

[casperse]

And how would you do that with dvdrebuilder? :confused:

I didnt think that a totally black bar would use up much disc space?
But I guess I have to do this....

Is it important to remove the blackbar when doing a backup of your favorite DVD movies? Eg Star Wars etc....?

I have done alot of movie backups with DVDrebuilder and never done any modification to the boarders and they all look great.

Thanks for your info!

[The eDealer]

- You can make it automatic with the AVS-Filter-Editor in RB.
Just copy it in the editor:

t = GripCrop(720,576,overscan=1)
a = width(t)%16
b = height(t)%16
Crop(t,(a/2)*2,(b/2)*2,0-a+((a/2)*2),0-b+((b/2)*2))
AddBorders((720-width)/2,(576-height)/2,(720-width)/2,(576-height)/2)
Use the AviSynth GripFit-Plugin for that.

- Another way is to use FitCD to analyse the movie specific crop size and to modify the scripts after the prapare phase with RB-Opt.

[Boulder]

And with 720x576, overscan=2 would be even better.

[casperse]

Sounds great, where can I find this plugin and some documentation about how to use it?

Thanks!:D

PS Just read that gripfit (the resizer) only suport 480 x 480?

[The eDealer]

The readme is included.
Overscan 2 is not a must, try it.
the plugin works great also with the original 720(704)x576.

EDIT: where is my zip attachment??
Otherwise you can find the gripfit_yv12 here: http://www.incredible.de.tf/index-d.html

[Boulder]

A 2-block overscan won't be visible with a resolution of 720/704x576. It provides much better gain compressibility-wise because the whole macroblock (each side 16 pixels) is filled with black instead of a single block (each side 8 pixels).

The attachments need to be approved by a moderator before they appear.

[casperse]

Thanks for the plugin could´nt findt it on the webpage link. ;)

And the readme dosent say anything about installation, is it enough to put it in the avisynth plugin folder?

Do you also have a link to the FitCD plugin?
I thought that it was only Fit2Disc that supported DVD´s calculation?
Dont know how to use it with DVDrebuilder but I will look around for a guide :sly:

[Boulder]

FitCD's not a plugin, it's a tool.

And yes, putting the GripFit dll in your AVS plugins folder will do.

[The eDealer]

Here is the Link to FitCD: http://shh.sysh.de/

Yes Fit2Disk is the better tool but you have to donate for it.
There you can scan a number of pictures using the .avs file.

[casperse]

I am going to tryout the GripFit tonight with the Script provided here Thanks! :D

To use this Fit2disc program I have to rename the .AVS files to avi and open them right? If you have a link or know of another post who disscus how to use this tool with DVDrebuilder that would be so great.

Sorry for asking alot of stupid questings but I am new to Avisynth scripting and tools like fit2disc :(

[The eDealer]

No, when you use fit2disk than you can open directly any *.avs file from your D2AVS folder. Than you can start the scan of the picture size -> ready. Now you only have to copy the crop & addboarder line with RB Opt. into the RB script file.

[The eDealer]

Example:
1. Sourcefile selection
2. Scan the picture
3. Copy the lines

EDIT: Does the uploaded picture follow??

[casperse]

Just tryed a "one pass" with the Gripfit and the script below.

t = GripCrop(720,576,overscan=1)
a = width(t)%16
b = height(t)%16
Crop(t,(a/2)*2,(b/2)*2,0-a+((a/2)*2),0-b+((b/2)*2))
AddBorders((720-width)/2,(576-height)/2,(720-width)/2,(576-height)/2)

And finally I got rid of the Jagged lines!!! :D
but the picture wide is smaller?

I have attached the ORG picture and the New Cropped one, what do I have to change to fix this?

By the way can I run this script with all PAL DVD´s ? ;)

[casperse]

Org picture no encoding. Attached

[The eDealer]

The wide is influenced by the overscan.
Typicaly you use an overscan 2 and at the TV you will not notice it, try it ;).
Yes, you can use it for all PAL DVDs.

[casperse]

I havent bought the Fit2disc yet but I have tryed the FitCD
So how can I adapt the data here...into rebuilder
I would like to test it before buying it!.
See Attached image

This is the Avisynth output:
# -= AviSynth v2.5.5.0 script by FitCD v1.2.4 =-
Import("F:\1-Dawn of the dead AC3\D2VAVS\V01000200001003.AVS")
BicubicResize(448,416,0,0.6,8,70,704,436)
AddBorders(16,80,16,80)
#Trim(0,11978).FadeOut(150)

EDITED: Hi eDealer I watch the DVD´s on a Plasma screen are you sure that the black bar on the side won´t show up?, normally I see excatly what I see on the PC screen since its pretty much the same on a Plasma Screen.

[Boulder]

You probably should use overscan=0 with plasma screen as they might not have any overscan area.

[casperse]

So I guess that if I just add this to the script it will more precise:
t = GripCrop(720,576,overscan=0
a = width(t)%16
b = height(t)%16
Crop(t,(a/2)*2,(b/2)*2,0-a+((a/2)*2),0-b+((b/2)*2))
AddBorders(16,80,16,80) <--- From the Fitcd Program.

Can I use any of the other information? :
BicubicResize(448,416,0,0.6,8,70,704,436)

Can I crop it so I get it closer to the ORG picture?
(Eg No black bars on the side...sometime I watch DVD movies when I travel on my laptop and it would be nice to see it without these :D )
EDITED:
Thanks you are really learning me alot!
Aspect Ratios Letterbox Panscan & Overscan Okay now I understand! (http://home.arcor.de/the.incredible//aspectratios.html)

Is the assumption below correct? :
overscan=0 -> No Overscan area in the videopicture we will not see on TV. It's called overscan area or TV-Cache.
overscan=1 -> Overscan performed using resize = more moviedetails
overscan=2 -> Overscan performed using overlap (Loss of picture!)

[The eDealer]

First of all: please don't use resize (!) only crop!

Don't mix it. Use the one or the other:
...
t = GripCrop(720,576,overscan=0)
a = width(t)%16
b = height(t)%16
Crop(t,(a/2)*2,(b/2)*2,0-a+((a/2)*2),0-b+((b/2)*2))
AddBorders((720-width)/2,(576-height)/2,(720-width)/2,(576-height)/2)
.....

or the FitCD Version (please read the guides and the basic faq's!):

e.g.
....
Crop(16,72,688,432)
AddBorders(16,72,16,72)
.....

The FitCD way is the better (100% correct instead of 99% ;)) way, but you have to set it manualy every time.

[casperse]

Thanks eDealer!
I have looked for guides but found none I will try to look harder.

Just one last questing Is this correct?
overscan=0 -> No Overscan area in the videopicture we will not see on TV. It's called overscan area or TV-Cache.
overscan=1 -> Overscan performed using resize = more moviedetails
overscan=2 -> Overscan performed using overlap (Loss of picture!)

I cant find a explanation to the overscan setting anywhere?

Cheers
And have a nice weekend!

EDITED:
So your saying that I dont use the overscan setting when using the Information from FitCD! Any reason why I should use fit2disc instead, any more information that I need to use to get a better picture with DVDrebuilder? ;)

[The eDealer]

You need the guides regarding topics like: overscan, resize, avisynth .... ;)

And a userguide for FitCD:
So you have to set the overscan in FitCD on 0 and change the option (right site) to no resize. You have to know about all options to set them right.
Fit2Disk has an automatic size recognition (see the picture) for the selected avs file. So you dont have to find it out manualy.

[The eDealer]

Size recognition:

[casperse]

Hi eDealer!

Okay Im Sold! :D

I just bought it and im very happy with the scan function!

But somehow I still get the black bars on the side even if I set Block Overscan to "0"
I have read the FitCD & Fit2Disc document but cant see what I am doing wrong?

Just to confirm what I have learned:
Always Crop a Movie never resize! to get more space for quality encoding! (Damm I have alot of old backups that could be in a higher HQ then!)

I tryed the Crop on another Movie and that also gives the black bars on the side with "Block Overscan = 0"

****************************************************************
By The Way any recommendations to block optimization? 4,8 or 16 in Fit2Disc?

In DVD-Rebuilder with CCE 2.67.00.27 I use:
VBR Bias = 30
QP = 28
Passes = 1+2 or 1+1 (Still experimenting)
What really like to hear what profs like you use? :cool:
****************************************************************

Below is a screenshot of the settings I used:

Thanks for your help! Its much appreciated!!! :)

[jptheripper]

you can also find borders with virtualdub

use this guide Here (http://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/171216.php)

to calculate them manually. Its pretty easy, i use it all the time

[The eDealer]

Hi casperse,
be sure: I'm not a prof :) .
Overscan is the crop & addborder mainly on the right and left (where you can see it in the Fit2Disk "preview") site of the video.
With crop(0,75,720,432) you only cut of the big black bar on the top and at the buttom (75). On the left and right site is nothing cropped (0). The same with the borders: (0,72,0,72) not borders will used on the left and right site(0).

My expiriences are good with the items in the txt file.

[casperse]

Thanks!

I tryed this last night:

Crop(0,74,720,434)
AddBorders(0,64,0,78)

And that worked ?..
Only differens is that I pushed Blocks to 2 = MMX optimized and
made sure that all the aspect was the same see picture....wird :confused:


But the result is great! and no more jagged bars! :D

PS: What program do you use to get the "AVG-Bitrate" fast from a DVD?.

EDITED: Are you using "RB-Opt" for these settings?

DC-Prec Matrix
10 Standard
10 Standard
9 Standard
9 Standard
8 Standard
8 Very Low
8 Bach1

[The eDealer]

"...Blocks to 2 = MMX optimized...."
- Thats not good. 16 (or 32) is recommended, because of the better encoding with macr.-block opt..

"Are you using "RB-Opt" for these settings? "
- Yes

"What program do you use to get the "AVG-Bitrate" fast from a DVD?"

- for calculation Fit2Disk is the best
- for a scan I use the Bitrate Viewer

[casperse]

Hi eDealer!

Thanks again! again! ;)

Did Not Work: ***Worked:
Crop(0,75,720,432) ***Crop(0,74,720,434)
AddBorders(0,72,0,72) ***AddBorders(0,64,0,78)

But if I change that to 16 or 32 the aspect ratio is not the same anymore dosent that matter?

Is that because a 16 block needs the 72 border.

Real aspect = 1.8108 and with a 16 block its changed to 1.8234 and I get the borders again.
Guess I cant have it all :confused:

PS: You should really think about writing a short Intro guide about this, I think there is alot (Including myself) of people who would love to have a guide about preprossing DVD, Cropping and Bitrate analyzing before starting encoding with DVD rebuilder!. Compared to me and alot of ohters you are a Pro!:cool:

[casperse]

Ooh just one more thing :D

I tryed to make a backup of my Starwars II DVD with the crop function.
I scanned with Fit2Disc and did set the block optimize to 16.
And after 6 hours I got a Black screen with red jagged line.
I then played the AVS in medieplayer and was told that it was because the crop on top was not a even number....

Is this because I have to mark it as Interlaced in the fit2 disc?
Anyway I can test if a DVD is Interlaced?

I Thought the tool would make the "right" choice?
PS I know I am a NOB...:(

[Trahald]

the even number thing is because avisynth needs yv12 colorspace in pairs of rows (because of how chroma is stored i would imagine) if you throw the converttoyuy2 higher in the script it should work. (play the avs file in media player to be sure first)

[wmansir]

Since there are a lot of screenshot attachments in this thread I thought it would be a good idea to point out this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86288) on a better way to post them. I've reconfigured my setup so I check for attachments to approve several times a day, but if you still don't want to wait for whenever I get around to approving them you can follow the instructions in that post to have your pictures show up immediately.

[casperse]

Thanks Wmansir I will try to remember that. :D