Support free software! - software patents in EU

[neo75903]

Hi this is a Quick call as sucg the EU is trying to pass Software Patents at out backs. Please feel free to go to and sign in your name if you feel this is a bad thing too:
http://demo.ffii.org/support.php

Thanx in advance.
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear FFII supporter,

Please help us to stop EU Agriculture Ministers from
taking a dreadful step towards software patents.

This Tuesday the EU Ministers of Agriculture will
be asked to vote through the Council's software patents
directive text as an agenda A-item, without discussion,
even though there no longer exists a qualified majority
of countries in favour of it.

The Council text imposes unlimited patentability,
with several layers of defences against any
attempt at limitation. If this text text is adopted,
it will be difficult to achieve a reasonable directive
at a later stage of the co-decision procedure.

Please help to make your Minister of Agriculture aware of
the
very real choice he/she has to make in the Agriculture
Council
on Tuesday. Please place the

Please place the

Open Letter
http://demo.ffii.org/letter.html

or the

Banner
http://demo.ffii.org/banner.html

on your most important web page(s).

Add your support to the wiki page

http://demo.ffii.org/support.php

This also points to pages where you may share the contact
addresses of your ministry and letters already faxed to
ministers of agriculture and environment.

If enough supporters participate, then the story will
reach
media and the news will spread. Your agricultural minister
then can
be more easily convinced that his/her resistance is worth
the effort.

With kind regards,

--
Gérald Sédrati-Dinet, Jonas Maebe, Felix Klee, James
Heald,
Peter Gerwinski, Holger Blasum, Hartmut Pil

[Wilbert]

This Tuesday the EU Ministers of Agriculture will
be asked to vote through the Council's software patents
directive text as an agenda A-item, without discussion,
even though there no longer exists a qualified majority
of countries in favour of it.

Could someone explain to me why ministers of Agriculture are forced to vote about software patents?

[neo75903]

I think they want to slip that through un-noticed. I hope i am wrong, coz this is really frustating for someone who has always believed in the EU.

[albertgasset]

Good news! Poalnd has opposed the voting of the software patents directive as an agenda A-item, so it will not be discussed until 2005: http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=254.

[neo75903]

Idd!
Once again we need Poland to save EU from a mistake.
As far i understand software patents are now moved from A to B topic which means a debate needs to happen before further decisions.
This can lead to a more solid alternative or software patents with clear rules and protects the small developer from <...>.

Once again Thank you Poland!

[Mug Funky]

yay! now let's hope it doesn't get through next year.

[shevegen]

I am very interested in who are those that really push on with those patents.

In the EU its a lot about chatting to achieve what you want (i mean the politicans), so there must be several ones influencing to their likings to enable the new patent laws.

The EU seems like a great place for big players - no more hassle with small states and their dissenting/different laws.

Hive Mind Patent Laws. :)

[neo75903]

Most work are done by lobying organisations guess who in turn are hired by those companies.

[Doobie]

Free Software can hardly get traction with consumers, let alone the government. I can see why someone might choose not to use Linux. They don't want to learn something new, something that is not compatable with he whole world. But, even free Windows apps like firewalls and virus scanners have trouble winning users, even though there are no negatives vs. the commercial alternatives. People even use lousy commerical programs over good free apps!

Money buys things, such as advertising, shelf space in stores, government lobbying.

[neo75903]

http://demo.ffii.org/poland_banner90.png
http://thankpoland.info/

[Wilbert]

This Tuesday the EU Ministers of Agriculture will be asked to vote through the Council's software patents directive text as an agenda A-item, without discussion, even though there no longer exists a qualified majority of countries in favour of it.
They are going to try it again on Monday 24th of January.

http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/55366

[neo75903]

Damm, they are really trying hard to push this through!
They are jsut waiting for one day to pass it when the public interest is low.

What can we do? .... new petition?

edit: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/0,39020645,39185041,00.htm

[Wilbert]

They postponed the adoption for a week under the pressure of the Polish minister:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/55429 (german)
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=314 (english)


That new delay opens a window of opportunity for JURI, the legal affairs committee of the European Parliament, to restart the hotly contested legislative process. JURI will meet in Brussels on Wednesday and Thursday of next week (February 2nd and 3rd), and will decide on requesting a restart of the entire legislative process. According to anti-software-patent campaigners, there is a good chance that a majority of JURI members will vote for a restart, and support is said to be broadening.

Florian Müller, campaign manager of NoSoftwarePatents.com, calls on supporters to contact their MEPs and "launch an all-out offensive for the restart because it is by far and away the best chance to prevent the legalization of software patents in the EU. In fact, it may be our only realistic chance. This is the moment of truth."

So, it's time to contact our MEPs again. And to find out the members of the JURI in order to be able to contact those.

[neo75903]

idd, Caint thank the Polish enough for their effort.
Thanks again Poland!

[Wilbert]

There's a lot of activity behind the scenes. People are putting pressure on the JURI members (certain members from the European Parliament) to demand a restart. There are also folks putting pressure to *not* to demand a restart:

- Among them are Nokia, Eriksson and UNICE. [**]

- Siemens, Nokia, Philips, Ericsson and Alcatel sent a letter to the Polish prime minister Belka. The contents is unknown to the public ... [**]

- Most important. Guess who's coming tomorrow to visit the European Parliament and talk about software patents and other stuff. Mister Microsoft Bill Gates himself. He comes tuesday, a day before the important JURI meeting.

list of all JURI members: http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep6/owa/p_meps.short_list?ilg=EN&icom=C16

[**] http://www.softwarepatenten.be/index.php Yes, it's dutch. Just follow the links.

[***] http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050130080116688

[neo75903]

doesnt sounds to good, Bill Gates and Mr Bush himself is also going to visit Belgium soon. He probably will hint it is good for both continents to have similar laws ...

[Wilbert]

Incredible :devil:

Zygfryd writes "Just when we were all celebrating, the Polish Press Agency (PAP) reports that the Patent Directive is not likely to return to the first reading as the Commission may ignore the Parliament's vote on restarting the process. Revisions are said to be still possible, but under political pressure the Polish government stated they would no longer oppose the directive's adoption and support the former agreement made in May. Polish diplomats will, however, support any opposition initiated by other countries on the February 17 meeting."

source: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/09/1454241&threshold=1&tid=155&tid=219
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/en/m/forum/index.html

(btw, the spanish voted already against the proposal in the first round, so that doens't matter ...)

[neo75903]

Omg The lobby group is doing a good job ... :(

[shevegen]

"Omg The lobby group is doing a good job"
hehe had any doubt?
I mean, it is their sole purpose to spread propaganda to change laws/opinions to their "sanitized" thinking version ;)

[neo75903]

I have heard there is somekind of action on 17e this month, in Brussels.

[Wilbert]

There's hope again :)


The Hague, 10 February 2005 -- The Dutch Parliament just has adopted a motion requesting its government to prevent the software patents directive from appearing as an A-item on the Council agenda before the Commission has answered the European Parliament's request to restart the directive. Dutch Minister for Foreign Trade Van Gennip has confirmed she will execute the motion as intended. It is now the Commission's turn to act.


During the past weeks, several sources had indicated that the directive would be placed as an A-item (i.e., a formal point without discussion) on the agenda of the Council meeting on Economy and Financial Affairs (ECOFIN), which starts at 10 o'clock on 17 February. That same day, at noon, the Conference of Presidents of the EP will formally submit the JURI request for a restart to the Commission.

"By attempting to preempt both the decision of the Conference of Presidents and the reply from the Commission, the Council was trying to extend its state of denying that there is anything wrong", Jonas Maebe, board member of FFII, said. "The Dutch Parliament temporarily puts the Council sausage machine on hold, so that the other EU institutions get time to work things out properly. I just hope the Dutch government will actually execute this motion."


Remark: "State Secretary" = Underminister; Karien Van Gennip is actually Underminister for Economic Affairs (under Laurens Jan Brinkhorst), but in foreign contacts holds the title Minister for Foreign Trade.

sources:
http://wiki.ffii.org/NlVot050210En
http://constitutionalcode.blogspot.com/2005/02/dutch-parliament-votes-against.html

the motion itself:
http://wiki.ffii.org/NlMot050210En

other sources:
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/02/11/0317239.shtml?tid=155&tid=162 (slashdot)
http://www.webwereld.nl/nieuws/20767.phtml (dutch)

[neo75903]

Idd, Hope more countries will do the same as the Dutch 'hopefully' will do.

[Wilbert]

Perhaps the following link is interesting (about what's going behind the scenes)

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050215071109231
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=363

[neo75903]

>:(

This IS a good reason to vote FOR patents, if we want to be independent from US based mighty companies, EU has to vote against it and give our own developers/companies a better base to survive.

[neo75903]

and again, the bureaucratics at EU headquarter strikes back:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/0,39020645,39189535,00.htm

I caint believe what is going on here, the whole parlement voted it back and all the commision has done is put it back on table as an A-item!

[Wilbert]

7 March 2005 -- The Council Presidency today declared the software agreement of 18 May 2004 to have been adopted, in violation of the procedural rules and in spite of the evident lack of a qualified majority of member states and the requests of several states to reopen negotiations.

Report
- Cyprus submitted a written declaration at the start of the Council session
- Poland, Denmark, Portugal and others (not specified) asked for a B item (discussion point)
- The Luxembourg presidency claimed this was not possible due to procedural reasons, and that this would have undermined the whole process -> it would stay on the list of A-items
- Luxembourg then gave a long statement regarding how the EP still gets a chance in second reading, the importance of avoiding legal uncertainty etc.
- Denmark said it was disappointed about this, but accepted and submitted a written declaration
- Later on, the list of A items was accepted by the Council

Conclusion
- Luxembourg negated the Council's own Rules of Procedure, which state that a B-item (which is at the same time a request to remove an A item) can only be rejected by the a majority of the Council, and not just by the Presidency.
- The objecting countries "forgot" to request removal of the A-item from the agenda. Rule 3.8 would have given any single country the right to have the A-item removed, because the Luxemburg presidency had failed to insert it more than 14 days earlier. It is difficult to believe that they were not aware of this possibility.
- This is a very sad day for democracy, and casts a very dark shadow over the European Constitution, which will give the Council even more power.


http://wiki.ffii.org/Cons050307En

Bunch of criminals. I simply have no other words for it.

So, the next stop is the European Parliament again for the second reading, where only a qualified majority can do something about it. I've read somewhere that a qualified majority means 2/3 of all members of the Parliament (not just of all voters). I can't find any proof of this (on the site of the Parliament), but if it is true the changes become very small, since on average 70 percent (I think, but it could be less though) of the members are present during meetings.

[neo75903]

:angry:

[m1ckran]

Don't worry about it. Doesn't matter.
Only the English actually implement EC Law.
Other countries have more sense.

[neo75903]

But soon or later, all countries have to implement it.
And if a international takes u to court, it can take higher and higher to the EU court and over rule all previous ones.

[m1ckran]

The problem with implementing laws, without popular consent, that favour small sections of society, is that people begin to ignore them. Then it soon becomes second nature to ignore other more sensible laws.

Europe knows all about civil wars and revolutions and the EC was designed primarily to avoid conflict. It's not working. It's divisive.

When I talk about Europe, I also include Britain. After all, England started the trend for executing kings and forming republics in the 17th century.

I would be delighted if software patents were the only problem with the EC. I believe it's just the tip of the iceberg and Europe is being ruled by bureaucrats and burned-out politicians who will do anything to protect their phenomenal salaries, expenses and cast-iron pensions.

:( I fear for the future.:(

[neo75903]

Thats why we have to vote for the next EU constitution, it gives some of the powers back to the Parlement.

[Elias]

Originally posted by Wilbert
Could someone explain to me why ministers of Agriculture are forced to vote about software patents? Good question. Can someone explain this? It feels really frustrating to know that people who don't know anything about software let alone patents are responsible for part of this decision.

[Doom9]

It feels really frustrating to know that people who don't know anything about software let alone patents are responsible for part of this decision.Because the issue was presented to them in a way that guarantees it's okayed without any discussion.. basically the issues on the A list are 99.9% certain to be voted through without problems.. so you make sure it gets on the A list, pick a forum that doesn't know anything about the issue at hand, that way you get your ideas through.

Imagine people who knew and cared about copyright law would've gotten to vote on the DMCA.. it would no longer have been smooth sailing.

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by Doom9
Because the issue was presented to them in a way that guarantees it's okayed without any discussion.. basically the issues on the A list are 99.9% certain to be voted through without problems.. so you make sure it gets on the A list, pick a forum that doesn't know anything about the issue at hand, that way you get your ideas through.

Imagine people who knew and cared about copyright law would've gotten to vote on the DMCA.. it would no longer have been smooth sailing.
Not exactly. The ministers don't decide what they vote by themselves. The decisions are made by the governments. So it doesn't matter who votes when it has been decided forehand that there shall only be voting, not discussion.