Why burn to DVD+R, not DVD-R?

[Marie75]

Hi everyone!

I'm not able to search for some reason (nothing happens when I try), and I have read some guides and FAQ's.

After two years of backing up DVD's to SVCD's, I am looking to buy my first DVD burner and DVD-R media. I read several of the guides here at doom9.org, and there is one little thing that still confuses me. In one of the guides it says to burn to DVD+R media. My question is, why not DVD-R... why should I burn to DVD+R?

Thanks very much in advance!
Marie

[The Geek]

It doesn't really matter whether you use DVD+R or DVD-R.
I personally use DVD+R with the DVD-ROM booktype for highest compatiblity possible.

The Geek

[Video Dude]

Agreed, it doesn't matter which you use.

Compatibility can now be considered equal among players. (Even though there will always be a -R fanboy trying to argue otherwise.)

One good thing about +R is that it has more error protection then -R. On the other hand, -R has a few more megabytes then +R.

Almost all new burners support both types of media.

[Marie75]

Thanks, you two! That clears up my confusion. I appreciate it :)

Marie

[darth rosenberg]

The error protection thing is nonsense the dvd plus alliance is talking because they don't have anything better to say.

Originally, they planned to add defect management (like you have on dvd-ram) to dvd+rw, but shortly after dvd-rw introduced software based defect management (which is not useable, as they didn't release drivers to use it, but wanted people to use InCD instead....), philips decided to drop it for dvd+rw, and to put more effort in increasing recording speeds on dvd+r and dvd+r dl. For dvd+r, such a thing has never been planned or even announced, at least as to my knowledge.

I think in the netherlands the fees on dvd blanks RIAA-like organisations get are different for dvd+ and dvd- (i *think* they are higher there for dvd+), but that's about all the difference you'll find.

If you want to record at 16x speed, you'll have problems finding 16x capable dvd-r media (few drives can write at 16x to 8x media though), whereas 16x dvd+r media is currently becoming more and more available.

[rotty]

I agree, as far as video quality, the two systems are of course exactly the same, each holding the same byte for byte VOB data. I have however noticed that the spec for most players is that they are suposedly only compatible with -r/-rw disks. However, even if they say that they can only play -r disks, in my experience they will play +r disks without problems. -r disks do seem to be cheaper generally.

[valnar]

DVD-R is the standard, my burner does DVD-R better and my DVD player plays DVD-R better so it was an easy decision for me. I'm in the DVD-R camp, even though the world appears to be against me since DVD+R can be burned "faster". Big whoop. I'm not about speed - I prefer quality. And my DVD-R discs come out way better using KProbe to measure their error rates.

There is no difference in the error correcting ability of DVD-R or DVD+R media. That would make the formats incompatible to each other and playback devices.

Robert

[dvd_maniac]

I stopped even trying to use +r since even the Xbox can not play them. I have tried several Name brands to no avail. I find this weird since Microsoft is a huge backer of the +r media....
The only other difference I notice is what Dart said about finding higher speed +r discs before -r ones.

[darth rosenberg]

dvd_maniac: It is not weird, it is Microsoft :)

[jsl]

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
I stopped even trying to use +r since even the Xbox can not play them. I have tried several Name brands to no avail. I find this weird since Microsoft is a huge backer of the +r media....
The only other difference I notice is what Dart said about finding higher speed +r discs before -r ones.

Microsoft is not backing +r more than -r (what has M$ really to do with DVD writing at all?) and Xbox works fine with +R but the Samsung drive needs DVD-ROM book type to read it (a feature any new DVD writer worth the name supports).

[Video Dude]

Microsoft is officially backing DVD+R. The technology for writing to +R will fully integrated into Windows Longhorn. Since this support will be device level in Windows the "defect management" or error protection of the dvd+r standard will finally be implemented.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=7587

[darth rosenberg]

As long as it is as flawed as their attempt to support cd-r, no one will care...

[therealjoeblow]

Originally posted by valnar
DVD-R is the standard, my burner does DVD-R better and my DVD player plays DVD-R better so it was an easy decision for me. I'm in the DVD-R camp, even though the world appears to be against me since DVD+R can be burned "faster". Big whoop. I'm not about speed - I prefer quality. And my DVD-R discs come out way better using KProbe to measure their error rates.

There is no difference in the error correcting ability of DVD-R or DVD+R media. That would make the formats incompatible to each other and playback devices.

Robert

Opposite experience here. DVD-R discs are barely readable, drive spins up and down trying to re-read error filled sectors, while +R have 2 orders of magnitude lower error rates, and these read back a full speed without stalling on any dvd-rom drive I've tried. My money goes with +R's for longevigy. I expect the -R's I've burned won't last more than a couple of years.

2 quality check scans attached.

[darth rosenberg]

therealjoeblow: In your case, there error was probably in front of the screen. Don't use princo, sky, platinum or whatever kind of low quality media. And if you do, don't blame the media.

[Doom9]

actually, all my guides (or most) should say DVD±R which means DVD-R and DVD+R.. the rest should mention DVD-R only since it was written prior to me having a DVD burner and being sensitive to the fact that there are two formats. Or are you not refering to my guides?

[Happygolucky]

Use what works best for you. My burner (a TDK Firewire external) will burn +R or -R media, but my standalone DVD player will ONLY load -R media. I've tried many different brands of +R and +RW but they simply will not load in my Pioneer 353 player. It will accept ANYTHING on -R or -RW media, though, even the cheapest no-name media I can find.

So, I buy only -R and -RW media for that reason. I have some +RW media I use for computer backups now, but unless I buy a new standalone player (not anytime soon) that's all it will be good for.

[Marie75]

Originally posted by Doom9
actually, all my guides (or most) should say DVD±R which means DVD-R and DVD+R.. the rest should mention DVD-R only since it was written prior to me having a DVD burner and being sensitive to the fact that there are two formats. Or are you not refering to my guides?
Hi Doom9! I was referring to this guide: http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvd5-backup.htm.
And since you're reading this... your guides are the best - I discovered doom9.org over two years ago, and your guides taught me how to create excellent SVCD's. Thank you for providing them!


Everyone else, thank you for your replies, they have been very helpful! I think I will have to test whether my players will play DVD+R, and if they do (making sure my burner will support booktype settings), I will go with that.

Thanks again and merry christmas!
Marie

[Malcolm]

Here is an interesting article with a lot of technical background:
Why DVD+R(W) is superior to DVD-R(W) (http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/113)

greetings,
Malcolm

[Doom9]

@Marie75: Hmm.. that must've been an oversight.. there's no motive behind just writing DVD+R on that page. I'll change that with the next site update.

[windtrader]

I have used DVD-R all along and have been happy.

If you use rewriteable media, I "think" the time to format a +RW disc is much quicker than a -RW disc. If true and you like to rewrite discs then it may push you toward a +RW.

[therealjoeblow]

Originally posted by darth rosenberg
therealjoeblow: In your case, there error was probably in front of the screen. Don't use princo, sky, platinum or whatever kind of low quality media. And if you do, don't blame the media.

1) don't post with 'holier-than-thou' attitude (your first comment). It's not constructive, and shows your arrogance, and

2) if you're going to post with uncalled for attitude (again, refer to point 1), then at least look at the picture before you do. The 'bad' disc was a Ritek -R, generally rated as one of the top disc manufacturers. At $64CDN for a spindle of 50, it's NOT cheap media. The picture of the good disc didn't attach for some reason, here it is. Also a Ritek (made for them by Ricoh). Clearly +R is the winner here.

Both burned on Lite-On SOHR 832S with stock firmware at rated speed of 4x.

PS. If I wasn't clear, please lose the attitude, it's NOT constructive or in keeping with the character of these forums.

[valnar]

Opposite experience here. DVD-R discs are barely readable, drive spins up and down trying to re-read error filled sectors, while +R have 2 orders of magnitude lower error rates

And mine is opposite of that. :D

My writer is a Pioneer, which is known to give excellent results on DVD-R media. I only use Taiyo Yuden media, as nothing else compares, so why bother. My PI errors average less than 12 over the whole disc. I check it in another LiteOn DVD Burner with Kprobe.

-Robert

[code65536]

Have to agree with Michael Spath's article. +R is superior technically. But that superiority is all in the backend--it's easier to make drives that burns +R fast, and it's easier to make drive to burn +R well--which translates partly to +R being ahead in the "speed race" and why there are more burners that prefer +R (BenQ, LiteOn, etc.) than burners that prefer -R to +R (I think it's just Pioneer, but Pioneer has a vested interest in the -R format).

[Mystiqq]

I dont understand what relevanse those graphs represent, at least in this case. I mean if thats suppose to show which one of the formats is better, they fail at it. Only thing is shows is that you have 2 different manufactured discs that happens to be one with +R and other -R.

Basicly what you are suggesting is that the -R disc is bad quality because it was -R and not because the disc might not be the best quality.

Or is it a fact that +R is able to produce better quality discs?

I dont own burner yet but been looking for one lately. Thats why i ended up here in the first place (thread). :)

About Ritek, at least ive got the idea they arent good. Id really suggest using Taiyo Yuden discs myself.