Xvid vs Divx

[AdeptEnc]

Hi -

I have read the codec comparisons here on Doom9 and I know that Xvid is rated higher than Divx. I am just making the switch. With simple settings (because I don't know that much about all the options in Divx or Xvid) in Divx and Xvid, my Divx encodes are way better. I have read SO many guides (recent ones about Xvid) and have tweaked a lot of the settings in Xvid, but my Divx 2cd encodes (for an average length movie) look much SHARPER, BRIGHTER, and with the proper CONTRAST over the same length Xvid encodes.

I know that there are tons of things you can do with Avisynth and filters for Vdub, but I am wondering if there is something simple that will make the encode nicer - more comparable to the .vob's - that anyone can turn me on to??

thanks again!!

[akupenguin]

If XviD and DivX produce different brightness and contrast, then something went seriously wrong with your encode process, which can't be explained just by Xvid compression options.
We can't help you without more details on the process and problem.

[AdeptEnc]

Actually, the brightness isn't really different. SOFTNESS is definitely noticeable in Xvid - it is just all around softer - which ties in with CONTRAST. I encoded a dvd that was FILM - the .vobs have a real nice contrast, the Divx encode has hardly any quality loss, and the Xvid encode looks lighter, softer = more washed out. I know that I am not doing anything 'wrong' because I have been encoding with Divx for well over a year, and I have read SO many Xvid guides.

thanks :D

[Koepi]

Yes, that makes you an immediate encoding PRO and you can't do anything wrong.

You're definatly using mpeg quant type, right?

YOu might want to read crusty's FAQ and read doom9's xvid-1.0-guide (the former is to find in the FAQ section, which you noticed and read as you follow the forum rules, and the doom9 guide you can find via the "GUIDES"-link on the doom9-main page, which you already know as you follow the forum rules ;) ).

Koepi

[AdeptEnc]

I think I worded that last post wrong - I didn't mean that I know that what I'm doing is RIGHT - what I meant was that of all these guides I have read, I know enough to know that I'm not setting any one setting completely to a bad setting...

I have tried 'quantization type' = MEDIA and also CUSTOM with different switches, but none so far have cleared up the LOW-CONTRAST effect on some FILM.

I forgot to mention - this is mostly only noticeable with NICE quality FILM. TV shows, skate vids, and other Interlaced stuff looks fine.

thanks

[Ark]

Now what's MEDIA quantization type?

You surely mean MPEG!

Try AQ, Qpel, GMC, leave b-frame settings to default, use a high bitrate-matrix like Sixofnine, use VHQ=4 (if you want even for b-frames), trellis. (Also try "film grain" on decoder options, it's very nice! :))

With these settings and an adeguate bitrate i strongly doubt your encode will look worse than the DivX one.

BTW, what XviD version do you use?

For the low contrast, maybe you have to decrease the brightness slider in the Decoder settings?

[AdeptEnc]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ark
[B]Now what's MEDIA quantization type?

You surely mean MPEG!

Yes, sorry about that. I have tried just MPEG and MPEG CUSTOM (and fooled around with different people's switches.

thanks again

[Koepi]

Which decoder gets used in your favorite player when decoding xvid?

Which version of xvid have you installed?

Do you have ffdshow installed? If yes, which version?

We need much more info to help you.

[AdeptEnc]

I don't know how to find out which decoder is being used - I mostly use BSPLayer.

This is the Xvid version: XviD-1.0.1-05062004 _Final Release

The only codecs I have installed are divx and xvid - I never install FFDSHOW/codec packs

thanks so much for the help

[Ark]

Originally posted by AdeptEnc
I don't know how to find out which decoder is being used - I mostly use BSPLayer.

This is the Xvid version: XviD-1.0.1-05062004 _Final Release

The only codecs I have installed are divx and xvid - I never install FFDSHOW/codec packs

thanks so much for the help

If you have only DivX and XviD, so XviD should be your decoder-filter used on playback.

I strongly reccomend to download the lastest version of XviD (1.0.2 stable, or 1.1 "unstable" but with much options and more quality).

[chilledoutuk]

the easiest way to find out whats being used to decode your video stream is to open the video in windows media player and go file >> properties. it will tell you what video codec is beig used to playback the video.

Also check the decoder settings as sometimes the brightness can be set to high just click on reset and the defaults will be used.

[AdeptEnc]

Thanks - Yes, it is Xvid that is being used to decode. Also, I would like to clarify about the brightness... it's not really the brightness that is bad, it is the contrast - it seems washed out (ONLY SLIGHTLY - but noticeably less than the vob's and a Divx encode)

THANKS!

[port66]

u can always download my champion settings on my site,.,. settings should come as default., dont have to tweak nothin except for zone options quant bar

EDIT by Koepi: claims are wrong as tested by M7S (thanks!)! Signature with the profile download removed.

[M7S]

Originally posted by port66
u can always download my champion settings on my site,.,. settings should come as default., dont have to tweak nothin except for zone options quant bar
Tested your settings to see if your claims made any sence. I even come that far. Your .reg files are seriously borked. Nothing makes sence.

Your custom matrix doesn't follow any patter. There where some numbers in the upper left part that where higher than numbers in the lower right part of the matrix.

Your high definition-settings had Bvop settings (2,0.58,0.50). Your B-frames use way to much bits to give good results.

All your settings used VHQ 0!!!

I usually don't think its so bad when people violate the rules by saying something is best, but in this case you could have screwed up some newbies backups quite badly.

Please do something about it!

[port66]

which settings did u try, the niltze/1.0.0 settings use teh default matrix,.

me personnally aint really bothered about all the square stuff, u dont notice or have any difference on image or size, but only on calc displays no1 takes much notice of

u can compares figures all day n night,. at the end of the day my settings still better divx, and most files compressed using xvid, with no audio delay/ out of sync when skippin & scanning files,. and medium - dvd compression r still dvd quality

[Koepi]

port66,

sorry to stop you there. That's pure BS.

The defaults are always better than your settings. Your settings _might_ be good for some special movie/condition (I seriously doubt that anyways), but believe us - we're experienced and pro's.

(I disabled your signature again. If you take a look at that site [still reachable through the www-button unfortunately] you'll see what you're dealing with. At least nothing serious.)

Koepi

[Mug Funky]

i think i already mentioned this by PM, but i suspect the washed-out look is coming from the decoder setting the colours to TV-scale. this is 16-235 rather than 0-255. this means black will become dark grey, and white will become almost-white.

i noticed this happening with the lastest koepi compiles. the encodes themselves should be fine, and have regular colours (you can verify this by using a different decoder).

btw, why not use ffdshow? i wouldn't call it a "codec pack" as it doesn't mess things up like they do (though the audio codecs can often do that by overriding things and not allowing filters to connect... i've broken a few people's mp3 playback doing that. whoops). i love it because it is fast enough to decode 512x384x50p plus subtitles in realtime. my computer is very old, and it's heartening to see this is possible (considering the divx decoder couldn't do 24p at the same size in realtime, no subs, at least last time i tried it).

[ChronoCross]

@AdeptEnc

Try one of Didee's six of nine matricies. It's meant for really high bitrates.

@port66
Your settings are retarded. using those settings produces horrible encodes. I can't even see a particular case it would be used in.

@mug funky
is the decoder automatically set for TV-Scale Output? I just checked and it's not for me. perhaps my hitting the Default codec settings button after installation changes it that way.

@koepi
Cheers on the new unstable build :D

[Leo 69]

@AdeptEnc

Look,mate, Xvid is MUCH better than Divx.Just if you tune it
properly.I personally encode 3-hour movies (Green Mile,Two Towers etc)
onto 1 (!) CD with awesome quality.No blocks,no mosquitos,no other
artifacts so far.Even if I disable the post-processing in decoder there is still
absolutely NO artifacts.Blurry image?NO! It is SHARP.Well,sharp
enough for 3 hours :rolleyes:
DivX looks like shit @ similar
settings,I can tell you.Come on,take your time and experiment!
There is NOTHING wrong with Xvid comparing to Divx.The problem
is in yourself.
But still if you doubt much,go DivX.But you'll loose much,believe me.

@Koepi

You really rock mate!

[PiXuS]

@Leo 69

Don't get me wrong.. but.. saying XviD @ ~550 kbps produces NO artifacts whatsoever is... a strong comment. ;)

[i1981]

I dont know how about 3 h encodes to 1 cd, but about 144 min to 1 cd look at this clip from
encode to 1 cd Star wars 2 qpel vhq1 hvs-better 1.0.2 vorbis 0.200 720*336


http://cp.people.overclockers.ru/cgi-bin/dl.pl?id=3461&filename=1.avi

And look at this clip from Mummy 2 720*368 Hvs-Best qpel vhq1 vhqb 1cd vorbis 0.200
In this clip you can see storng and week side's of Xvid (how bad he can compress sam color, dark scenes). Light scene q6-7, dark scene q5-6. If campare to DVD source light scene looks good and could compressed more, but dark scene look's BAD compare to DVD source.

http://cp.people.overclockers.ru/cgi-bin/dl.pl?id=3326&filename=_____.avi

PS. Sorry for my crapy English it is the First post that I'am write on them

[ChronoCross]

it would be useful if you posted a 10 second clip that is in one of the high motion scenes rather than a nearly static scene. Then we could make a more acurate conclusion.

[Andrey]

>>it would be useful if you posted a 10 second clip that is in one of the high motion scenes rather than a nearly static scene.
From my expirience with SW2, the slow motion scenes are the hardest to compress there... But original DVD I have, has a really ugly picture, alas...

[i1981]

I find no sense to post high motion scenes. We all know that Xvid on defolt settings never spares on quick scene, and fisual quality of high motion scenes always better than low, so i think if you want see weak side of encode, you must see a low motion scene or dark scene. Star wars 2 dark scene looks good too.

[ChronoCross]

I have found from my experience with MANY static scenes *see profile* that high motion scenes even if it has a higher quant still has a higher possibility of looking blocky. Especially with longer movies at that bitrate.

[i1981]

I don't understand you, on the higher quant picture always look's more bloky than on the lower quant. I know that Xvid always use higher quant on high motion (p5p6p6b10p6), and lower quant, and more b frames on low (p3b6b6p4b7b7p4), when encoding in 2 pass. Yes if we look at the scene on frames, frames on high motion scene will look more blocky than the frames from low motion scene (with lower quant). But don't care even on more high quant, this sequence of the frames will look orderly since we visual do not have time to see artifacts of the compression, naturally on low motion artifacts we notice have time to.
I have coded a lot of films under two and more hour and can say one, unless is enough bit's first of all suffer low motion scene (since artifacts of compressions seen on them better)

[calinb]

@AdeptEnc: Did you reset the brightness with the XVID decoder reset button? (Granted, this isn't what I'd call a subtle difference, but thought I'd ask anyway.) See Sharktooth's post:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=566647

[port66]

dont know where your at,. but if i rip a dvd this is wot i end up with :

Medium Quality (http://www.port66.prodigynet.co.uk/TERMINATOR_3_med.avi)
High Quality (http://www.port66.prodigynet.co.uk/TERMINATOR_3_high.avi)

vhq mode is off in all settings, cos it speeds things up, if u all see green blocks in yur players,. you should all hush up and learn how to config systems proper

and no doubt its still all crap n retarded, like the quality of hollywood commercial dvds

using medium settings, all dvds are within 1.5gb size with a 5 channel ac3 inside.

Originally posted by ChronoCross

@port66
Your settings are retarded. using those settings produces horrible encodes. I can't even see a particular case it would be used in.