ATTENTION! RB 0.65 and THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST in Pioneer, audio drops

[psdos]

It is a problem with Pioneer and other marks of very quality. I hava one Pioneer 444 and 520. In two models there are audio drops. I use CCE or Procoder2 and Verbatim +R 8X copied at 2,4X with RecordNow Deluxe 7.2 and final PxEngine. I think that is a problem of RB. I thing, in a xbox all OK for example. Thanks and great jobs jdobbs.

[berrani]

It's a known problem of DVDRebuilder, that in the authoriting phase produce a not completely standard format :(. In some DVD player model (like mine Pioneer 444) that doesn't like non standard DVD we have audio drops; we can only wait and hope that the author find a solution (to test it you can demux the resulting new Dvd and remux it with DVDlab Pro demo version: in your Pioneer all the problems are gone!).
In any case you can find in this forum several articles regarding this problem, use search and "audio drop".


Tony. :)

[jdobbs]

Maybe... I would be careful to also interject that very few of the commercial DVDs on the market completely comply with the DVD standard. So please don't hold DVD-RB to a higher standard.

I'm not avoiding the issue -- but I want it to be clear.

[psdos]

jdobbs, could it's the max. bitrates?, i am search a solution for this problem. In other dvd player all ok.

[jdobbs]

I'd say the probability that it is max bitrates is very low. I added code a couple of versions ago that limits maximum bitrate to a value below the combined audio/video total -- it didn't have a lot of impact.

Also note: There are very few players that have a problem. In fact I try it on multiple players myself and don't get it.

There are a lot of variables associated with all the tailorable parameters I've included (and sometimes regret) in DVD-RB, and there is a definite possiblity of self-inflicted problems when folks change one of the many default values.

That doesn't mean I'm not accepting that I need to work on it -- only that it isn't as common as some might imply.

[psdos]

jdobbs is you can review this film you see that in the time 00:28:20 has audio drops and sometimes the audio is off

This effect is preview with IFOedit too. The VOBIDs are 1 and 6

[Sir Didymus]

No. I definitely tend to exclude there is a direct relationship between the absolute value of the bitrate and the dropout. I tend to be more convinced there could be a relationship with the REDUCTION LEVEL of the specific title (i.e. titles with little compression should show less pronounced dropouts). For the moment let me add no more on the subject. My hypothesis is that dropouts and STD buffer overflows could be directly related, but for the moment I have no evidence on this (just working on the subject). I will start soon a new thread with some nice findigs on the matter.

Cheers,
SD

[berrani]

Originally posted by jdobbs
I'd say the probability that it is max bitrates is very low. I added code a couple of versions ago that limits maximum bitrate to a value below the combined audio/video total -- it didn't have a lot of impact.

Min/max bitrates have no effects: I test it without success (also using RB-Opt)... :(
Should be the problem the "buffer" exceeding?

Originally posted by jdobbs

Also note: There are very few players that have a problem. In fact I try it on multiple players myself and don't get it.

Hmmmm... Are you sure, Jdobbs? I test on several player, and it seems the low-cost models have less problems, but with player of a higher quality the problem is more frequent... :(

Originally posted by jdobbs

There are a lot of variables associated with all the tailorable parameters I've included (and sometimes regret) in DVD-RB, and there is a definite possiblity of self-inflicted problems when folks change one of the many default values.

Since I like very much your work and I'd like to use it, I test it with a lot of different DVD-R/+R/-RW/+RW brand, with different DVD recorder hardware, but the result is always the same... The problem always disappear with the "DVDlab Pro" demux/remux method above mentioned (also mentioned in other posts).

In any case thanks to Jdobbs for his great work, at this moment the best easy solution for high quality back-up. :)

Only a thing, and this is only my modest opinion: I think it would be more easy to solve important problems like this continuing the "public release" of the beta software, now all is more difficult... (to all people not having this problem now, think if tomorrow you have to change your DVD player and you discover that all your DVD back-up have audio drops... :confused: )


Tony.

[psdos]

I think that jdobbs will has give it more important at this error. It is very important to the people that is trusting in RB soft. Audio drops is a error very very important. if it is not corrected it will let use rebuilder, sorry.

[psdos]

I do more probes, now with one pass VBR the logo ico to the start nop dropout, peculiar.

In other probe, not use dynamically assign cell bitrates and put in ECL max_bitrate=4000 and min_bitrate=0 in CCE Setting, this is the log of RB

Transcoding...
-----------------
[04:11:38] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- VTS_04: 3.102.075 sectors.
-- ANGLE and/or INTERLEAVING is present.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 182.372 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 56,9%
- Overall Bitrate : 2.804Kbs
- Space for Video : 2.496.692KB
- HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: -1/9.001/2.804 Kbs
[04:15:17] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 4 minutes.
[04:15:17] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 2
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 3
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 4
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 5
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 6
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 7
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 8
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 9
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 10
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 11
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 12
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 13
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 14
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 15
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 16
[08:46:19] Phase II ENCODING completed in 271 minutes.
[08:46:19] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_04
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Rebuilding ILVU Area VOBID: 2 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding ILVU Area VOBID: 3 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 4 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_04
- Rebuilding segment 2 VOBID: 5 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_05
- Rebuilding segment 3 VOBID: 6 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_06
- Rebuilding segment 4 VOBID: 7 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_07
- Rebuilding segment 5 VOBID: 8 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_08
- Rebuilding segment 6 VOBID: 9 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_09
- Rebuilding segment 7 VOBID: 10 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_10
- Rebuilding segment 8 VOBID: 11 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_11
- Rebuilding segment 9 VOBID: 12 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_12
- Rebuilding segment 10 VOBID: 13 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_13
- Rebuilding segment 11 VOBID: 14 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_14
- Rebuilding segment 12 VOBID: 15 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_15
- Rebuilding segment 13 VOBID: 16 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_16
- Rebuilding segment 14 VOBID: 17 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_17
- Rebuilding segment 15 VOBID: 18 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_18
- Rebuilding segment 16 VOBID: 19 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_19
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_04_0.IFO
Correcting VTS Sectors...
[09:00:30] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 14 minutes.

Done.


note that this line there is something wrong,

- HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: -1/9.001/2.804 Kbs

Thaks at all.

[jdobbs]

Hmmmm... Are you sure, Jdobbs? I test on several player, and it seems the low-cost models have less problems, but with player of a higher quality the problem is more frequent... Then it would likely be related to a specific group of settings... because when I do movies it plays back correctly on every player (bar none) upon which it is tried without audio drops.

Sorry... but that is the experience I have. Other than one movie (Johnson Family Vacation, for which I know the exact cause -- but not a solution yet) I cannot reproduce an audio dropout.

[jdobbs]

Only a thing, and this is only my modest opinion: I think it would be more easy to solve important problems like this continuing the "public release" of the beta software, now all is more difficult... You obviously haven't had to chase problems down a rabbit hole only to find it was the inexperience and creativity of the well-intentioned user that was the cause. One of main reasons for limiting the release is to also limit the trouble reports to those who are more likely to be experienced users. I was spending most of my debugging time on snipe hunts.

[psdos]

@jdobbs

if you want i could give you link at ftp to download IFO and VOB_04_01.VOB of this film. You see that DVDPlayer of IFOedit if do audio drops in 00:28:20 for example.

Please, see me if you want these files.

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Maybe... I would be careful to also interject that very few of the commercial DVDs on the market completely comply with the DVD standard. So please don't hold DVD-RB to a higher standard.

I'm not avoiding the issue -- but I want it to be clear.

Sorry for the late reply to this post [...I dropped it at a first quick reading, but it seems important to me...]. Just to say: fully agreed and quoted.

I am using a whole battery of different tools to check the compliancy of original DVD (and Rebuilt too, of course...) against DVD standards. You may be surprised to know that UP TO NOW no one of the original DVD I tested is fully compliant with all of the DVD and MPEG2 rules defined in the standards (not so many titles tested, especially because it'l take a lot of time to complete a single run, but I specifically verified what I say on between 10 and 20 titles) ...

Cheers,
SD

P.S. Of course I hope everybody agrees that with the nice help and support (and sometimes the insistent pushing) of all of the doom9 forum testers, the minimum target for the authoring of DVD-RB should be to reach the same level of Sonic Scenarist...
;)

[berrani]

Originally posted by jdobbs
You obviously haven't had to chase problems down a rabbit hole only to find it was the inexperience and creativity of the well-intentioned user that was the cause. One of main reasons for limiting the release is to also limit the trouble reports to those who are more likely to be experienced users. I was spending most of my debugging time on snipe hunts.

@jdobbs
I want only clarify one thing: I love your program, I like it so much that I would it to be perfect... :D
I hope a day I can fully use your software and contribute to support you great work. :cool:

[caprioles9000]

berrani....you said that you demux it and then remux it with dvdlab pro. One question how do youdemux it..with what program and what are the settings? Because .....i know that dvdlab pro will not take the 0 minute fake audio files that DVD-RB produces...what do you do with those ?

Greetings
Caprioles9000

[berrani]

Originally posted by caprioles9000
berrani....you said that you demux it and then remux it with dvdlab pro. One question how do youdemux it..with what program and what are the settings? Because .....i know that dvdlab pro will not take the 0 minute fake audio files that DVD-RB produces...what do you do with those ?

Greetings
Caprioles9000

Hi, Caprioles9000.
Obvious I demux only the main movie (no 0 fake audio) and only to test where is the problem. You can use SmartRipper or any other demuxer utility (see in download section of this size at "Vob Tools").
When you have the movie and the audio, import them into DVD Lab Pro and make a DVD (with only the movie): burn it and see if in your DVD player is all OK...

P.S.: if you want to test only one Vob (i.e. VTS_01_1.VOB), it's simple to directly import vob file into DVD Lab Pro: it asks to you if you want to automatically demux and import the file! :cool: