Rebuilder Sizing Issues

[treyking11]

hello all. i know that serveral posts have been made concerning this issue, but none have answered my questions, so here goes. rebuilder is compressing my back ups too much, and i am ending up with 6 gig movies being shrunk to 3.8 gigs or so. i need that last half gig!!i have used rb-opt, but my end movie doesnt resemble what rb-opt says i am going to get. i have put "CCETargetSectors=2260000" in my config file of rebuilder under options, but i still get the small file. some of my movies come out at 4.2 gigs which is perfect, but others are way small. my results are all over the board. here is what i am using

CCE 2.69.01.10 (registered)
DVD-RB 0.64a
Avisynth 2.55
DVD Shrink is used as my ripper to take out multiangles/menus/extra audio/etc.

thanks in advance.

[Sir Didymus]

Tipical problem, I would say, of the wrong usage of Shrink. :rolleyes:

This application is beautiful for the pourpose it was designed: to transcode movies.

The suggested ripper to use with DVD-RB is Decrypter, not Shrink. If you want to be SURE of the results you get, you may do all the tunings and cuts you need to customize your title AFTER applying DVD-RB. Get a look to this thread for further hints on the matter...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84172

If you still want to preprocess your title, I would suggest in any case to perform a complete rip of the original DVD contents (using Decrypter), then you may give a try to VobBlanker (a very nice and effective application by Jsoto)...

Cheers,
SD

P.S. Notice just now it is your first post in this forum...
WELLCOME!!!

PS2 - And especially concerning the stripping out of unwanted audio tracks, leave this task to DVD-RB; it does the job in the proper way...

[treyking11]

thanks so much, i will re-rip everything and let you know. thanks again.

[ddlooping]

Hi. :)

Sir Didymus, just out of curiosity, why would using DVD Shrink to prepare a DVD for a "Rebuilding" be undesirable?

[dragongodz]

why would using DVD Shrink to prepare a DVD for a "Rebuilding" be undesirable?
because he is preprocessing with it (removing streams etc). jdobbs has already said he hasnt tested using preprocessing by other programs so can not say how DVD-RB will react to changes they make. so he is only interested in unprocessed results for now.

i assume once DVD-RB works perfectly(or as close as possible) that way jdobbs may be interested in taking preprocessing in to account. thats my assumption mind you. :)

[jdobbs]

It is always important in these sizing issues to post the content of the first section of the Rebuilder.inf file in the D2VAVS directory. What I have seen happen (but I don't know in your case) is that after the removal of the audio/subpicture streams the remaining video is small enough to fit on a DVD-5. DVD-RB would have to make the video larger than its original size to fill it out to 4.37GB (which is always a bad idea).

But I don't know that unless I can see the original size in sectors, the excluded audio size in sectors, etc. from the INF file.

[Sir Didymus]

Hi :)

I was sure that first or later, with some of my more or less appropriate comments or suggestions, I would have create troubles to someone of IMPORTANT...

Ok. My point is just the following: Rebuilder is an amazing application created and perfectly (ok. more or less perfectly) working when applied directly to original movies. When titles are preprocessed in any way (with Shrink or Remake or other tools) its reliability is not guaranteed. This is a fact, and this happens because preprocessing could be performed in many ways, and some of these ways are changing very deeply the timings and the structure of the original title. Some people feels like this behaviour is anomalous and they complain about the behaviour of DVD-RB; but this behaviour is not wrong: the problem is just caused by the wrong usage of a good application.

Another point is that the diffusion of protection schemes based on the intentional insertion of damaged contents is increasing. For properly ripping these titles, it is much preferrable (IMHO) to leave the ripping task to applications specifically designed to cope with this kind of problems.

Third point is just that in the guides (more or less official, and in the stickies) it is always indicated the usage of Decrypter for preparing the DVD contents to the Rebuilding input. Why people should not obey to these recommendations ?

All the best
SD

[ddlooping]

I don't think you created troubles for anyone, Sir Didymus.
I was just being curious. :)

Thanks for your replies. ;)

[treyking11]

hey guys, here is the ini file from my attempted minority report backup (ripped with shrink). i actually thought to use shrink as a ripper because my star wars trilogy discs are multi-angle, which dvd-rb doesnt support (correct?). anyway, the resulting UNCOMPRESSED shrink files are still around 5.5-6.0 gigs, not big enough for a dvd-5. i also wasnt sure how to pull everything out except the main movie using other programs. here is the first part of the file, i really appreciate the responses.

[Status]
mode=1
Original_Size=3154950
Excluded_Audio_Sub_Size=0
VTS_01_SIZE=2892199
Progress=1
CCEType=2
Encode_Progress=23
[V0100001]
Last_Sector=3154855
[V01000000001001]
SCR=.000
PTS=25257.000
Frame_Rate_Code=1
Pulldown=0
Structure=3
Frames=9684
Last_Sector=149452
Reduction=69.1
Aspect_Ratio=3
HalfD1=0
EndPTM=36354049.000

[lamster]

Originally posted by treyking11
(ripped with shrink). i actually thought to use shrink as a ripper because my star wars trilogy discs are multi-angle, which dvd-rb doesnt support (correct?).

It was suggested above that you use DVD Decrypter as the ripper; I second that. (You said you were going to rerip everything, so you might have already tried this.)

The publicly available release of the DVD-RB beta does not support multiple angles. There's another version (0.65) that does, which is currently only available to a select list that includes donors (those who have donated money to the author), and people who have put a lot of effort into beta testing. That version should be available to the public in less than a month.

I've tested the Star Wars discs using 0.65, just to verify that they work OK, but for my real backups I don't really have any use for the ability to see the scrolling text in Spanish or French, so I stripped out the angles in order to give myself more space for the main movie's video.

Here's a complete list of what I did for the Star Wars movies:
[list=1]
Ripped the original DVD using DVD Decrypter.
Ran DVD-Shrink to shrink just the menus
Ran IfoEdit to strip the angles from the main movie
Copied the results from the previous step back into the Shrink-generated directory
Ran Rebuilder to compress all the non-menu VOB files. (And also to strip any unwanted audio streams.)
Edited the resulting IFO files so that the main movie starts right up when the DVD is inserted.
[/list=1]

For Phantom Menace, shrinking the menus brought the size of VTS_06_0.VOB from 837,089,280 bytes down to 427,706,368 bytes; after stripping the angles, the total source size had gone from 8,354,328,576 bytes to 7,766,267,904 bytes, and Rebuilder's "Reduction level" improved from 38.2% to 48.5%.

[treyking11]

thanks for the tips on the star wars flicks. i would probably just keep the main movie files though, no menus. so i guess ifoedit would be the only tool other than rebuilder that i would need. last night i tried a backup of my matrix reloaded disc with only decrypter and rebuilder. no editing of any kind except for allowing rebuilder to strip the unwanted audio streams. i still ended up with a 6.67 gig movie being compressed to 3.90 gigs. below is the ini file from the D2VAVS file. i am starting to pull my hair out, people!! the answer has to be right in front of me...

[Status]
mode=1
Original_Size=3501435
Excluded_Audio_Sub_Size=230484
VTS_01_SIZE=2792977
Progress=2
CCEType=2
Encode_Progress=37
[V0100001]
Last_Sector=1926105
[V01000000001001]
SCR=.000
PTS=4095.000
Frame_Rate_Code=1
Pulldown=0
Structure=3
Frames=5567
Last_Sector=96625
Reduction=63.8
Aspect_Ratio=3
HalfD1=0
EndPTM=20901972.000

[pg55555]

treyking11

You are posting the first part of your .inf file, not the .ini. This is right, is what jdobbs have asked to do.

If I´m right, you have been able to complete succesfully some backups, with the desired output size, which means your setup to be correct.
But you are experiencing downsizing in others, the last one Matrix Reloaded.

From your posts, you are using CCE Basic 2.69. I remember from other thread this could be the problem.

Ideas to try:
- Use RBOpt to verify the target size. If this is right and you are still getting undersize output, try increasing the targetsize above the DVD5 limit (you can use the Global Options of RBOpt or the TrgetSize setting of the Rebuilde.ini file)
- Do you DVD have DTS audio? Is it the only audio you are keeping?, or, if you are keeping more than one, is it the one that is first? If so, try keeping other audio in the first position (to maintain you bitrate you can increase your targetsize for the audio you are now including, and strip it later with Shrink, no compression)

[treyking11]

i will give that a try. i am not entirely sure i am editing the correct ini file. would it be too much for someone to tell me exactly where i can find it so that i am sure i am putting the "targetsectors" line in the right spot??? there are too many things that can go wrong with this program, too many things that need "tweaking"... no disrespect to jdobbs, but i may have to stick with dvdshrink. it is simple, reliable, and with it's adaptive error compensation, the qualily with highly compressed files is great. besides, I CANT GET DVD-RB TO WORK!!!!!!! this is frustating, thanks to all who responded.

[lamster]

The rebuilder.ini file should be in the same directory as the rebuilder.exe file.

[treyking11]

ok, then i am doing it right...

[treyking11]

messed around with rb-opt, still not working. going back to good-ol dvdshrink. by the way, would it be worth it to switch versions of cce, or will that not do anything? this program is too inconsistant... thanks again to all!

[pg55555]

If you want to try, just to know it works (as you are happy with Shrink), you can try with a trial version of CCE, wich you can download from this site

http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Encoders/MPEG2/ccespt266.exe

Remember for CCE trial you MUST use EclCCE. Your path in RB setup has to be directed to EclCCE, no to CCE itself. You have to run EclCCE at least one time, and when prompted, direct it to the CCE executable.

From some previous posting I had understood you have been successfull in backing at least some DVDs, so your installation was not an issue. But apparently it was not so:
You can try using Rockas installer, wich assures a good installation of RB and its supporting software.

[TheSeeker]

I just wanted to get some more info on this out there for everyone or anyone to chew on. I recently had my first issues with DVD RB sizing over the last day or so. Now, Im at work so I apologize for not being able to post the contents of the ini or inf files but I will give you my setup.

avisynth 2.55
dvdrb .66
cce sp 2.67.00.23
decrypter 3.5.10

Those are all the programs involved in this backup. Ok the movie is Kingdom Hospital disc 2. Disc 1 worked flawlessly the first time... no issues at all. SO i know my setup works great. With disc 2 however when I got done and rebuilt it I noticed the video_ts directory was only 3.8 gbs. I had never experienced this with RB so I was taken aback and i just shrugged it off and am now trying the backup again with .66a. Not sure if that will help any but hey thought I would give it a try. Now what info would you guys need to help me nail down this problem? Because I really need Rebuilder to do these backups and I want to get to the bottom of this. Its probably just this one movie that is causing the problems but what kinds of things would cause rebuilder to undersize like this?? I have done NO preprocessing, I ripped with decrypter, there is only one audio track, and one sub. track for french that im removing. Any thoughts or questions are welcome. Thanks!!

EDIT: Would re ripping it be something to try if the second go doesnt work? I know i dont have anything but default settings because I checked them last night.

Whoops I better mention that I DID use RB-Opt 0.15 to apply a kvcd notch custom matrice and to use cce's built in natural picture filter. I suppose I should try the backup without rb-opt.... but those custom matrices are so nice....