What did I do wrong?

[HornyBass]

Hello guies,

I did my first backup following the guide available in the guides section. The movie I tried to backup is Don Camillo's World (black and White movie).

I'm using DVD-RB 0.64a ; CCE SP 2.67.027 ; Avisynth 2.55, Decomb.dll, MPEG2Dec3dg.dll, EclCCE (versions given in the guide).

My settings for CCE are : VBR Bias : 25 ; VBR Passes : 10 ; Quality Prec : 16.

I went for a one click backup.

I get "blurry stuff" around the beginning credits and around actors, the final size of the Video TS folder is 1.65Gb which seems to me reallly low compared to the original, I also get a D2AVS folder remaining in DVD-RB working folder along with Audio and Video TS folders.

DVD-RB is still opened, so if you guies want me to check something else, I'm able to do it.


EDIT : I forgot to mention that I used TitleSetBlanker to get rid of an unwanted extra.

[Savannah]

I cant help you with the image quality problems, but in regards to the D2AVS folder, thats just the working folder that DVD-Rebuilder places the avs files it generates during Phase I (Prepare stage for those who prefer to use the 1 click method ;)) into.

Feel free to delete the D2AVS folder when your happy with the output.
The AUDIO_TS and the VIDEO_TS folders are just the re-encoded movie.

(For more information on AVS files, check out the DVD-Rebuilder FAQ sticky at the top of the forum, in particular Q7)

I hope that answers some part of your question.

To Anyone - I know HornyBass mentioned a guide was followed for the settings, but isnt 10 VBR_Passes overkill? :confused:


wow, I just realised, all this time and this is my 1st post?

[HornyBass]

Originally posted by Savannah
I cant help you with the image quality problems, but in regards to the D2AVS folder, thats just the working folder that DVD-Rebuilder places the avs files it generates during Phase I (Prepare stage for those who prefer to use the 1 click method ;)) into.

Feel free to delete the D2AVS folder when your happy with the output.
The AUDIO_TS and the VIDEO_TS folders are just the re-encoded movie.

(For more information on AVS files, check out the DVD-Rebuilder FAQ sticky at the top of the forum, in particular Q7)

I hope that answers some part of your question.

To Anyone - I know HornyBass mentioned a guide was followed for the settings, but isnt 10 VBR_Passes overkill? :confused:

Thanks for your answer :)

I know that 10 Passes are overkill but I just wanted to give my backup the maximum quality, I guess that 3 to 5 passes should be more than enough.

[TheSeeker]

1 vaf pass and 3 video passes are more than enough for any encode. as for your video quality issues.... what is the average bitrate as calculated by RB prepare phase? how long is the movie? have you tried any filters yet? Is the movie interlaced?

[pg55555]

HornyBass

Your undersized output is probably a settings problem. And I think is the cause of the poor quality: low size <---> low bitrate

Is your CCE retail ot trial? EclCC is only for the trial versions (and also for retail 2.50)

Pleae post a copy of your Rebuilder.ini file (it is a text file, so you can just copy/paste its content) to look your settings

Also, for testing I would suggest use only 2-passes in CCE. After you got RB working you can do a higher number of passes if you prefer so

[HornyBass]

I finally went for a DVD Shrink backup after having stripped the unwanted features, which resulted in no compression for that black and white movie.

Now I've done an attempt with Bad Boys II DVD (using DVD-RB + CCE SP 2.67.027 Trial) after stripping the trailers. I must say that the image quality is not as good than with DVD Shrink.

Here is my DVD-RB .ini file enclosed to this message, let me know if you need more informations. I've desactivated the steeling space from extras function to avoid the same problems that I had with the other movie. I've activated 1 pass with analysis mode, which seems to cancel the 3 Passes I've selected in CCE SP options.

My DVD-RB .ini file download link : Click Here To Download It (http://membres.lycos.fr/madovercloker/forums/rebuilder.ini)

[HornyBass]

I'm about to make an attempt with the Undot filter metioned in this guide : http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial_advanced.cfm

But I have another question : how do I know if a movie is interlaced or not?

I also need advises on the value to apply to Quality_Prec.

[pg55555]

I was not able to download your .ini file.

As suggested, please just paste the content of the file in your post. (Rebuilder.ini is small enough)

Anyway, if you could produce a working backup of Bad Boys II it means your setup is ok.

My recomendation would be to stay away of One pass w/analysis until you are a little more familiar with RB. Just set CCE to 2-pass.

Regarcing interlaced input, the general recomendation is just let RB to process it automatically, wich means you will get an interlaced output. The general consensus is that if you have a progressive display, it si better to let the hardware to do the de-interlacing.

[jdobbs]

Now I've done an attempt with Bad Boys II DVD (using DVD-RB + CCE SP 2.67.027 Trial) after stripping the trailers. I must say that the image quality is not as good than with DVD Shrink. If the output from CCE is not as good as DVD Shrink -- something is almost assuredly wrong.

[HornyBass]

Here is the content of DVD-RB .ini file :

[Paths]
CCE250=C:\eclccebis\EclCCE.exe
CCENEW=C:\eclccebis\EclCCE.exe
DECOMB=E:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll
Source=D:\SHRINKED DVD\VIDEO_TS\
MPEG2DEC=E:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll
Working=D:\DVD REBUILDER WORKING FOLDER\
[Options]
OneClick=0
AudioDub=0
idct7Opt=1
CCE=1
EncoderMinimized=1
RemoveDTS=1
ReduceOpt=0
Completed=4
AVSFilter01=Undot()
[Setup]
Language10111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
[CCEOptions]
VBR_bias=25
Quality_prec=16
eclPasses=3
OPV=0


Regarding progressive display, 99.99% of the time I watch my DVDs on my 19" CRT Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450 which have a flat surface (not sure if that is the correct english word), the only standalone player where my DVDs are played is my parents' player, and I don't think they can be disturbed by the quality of the video, but I do.

Is a Quality_Prec with a value of 16 ok for most of the backups, and when do I have to raise it or drop it?

Talking again of the comparison of DVD Shrink and DVD-RB+CCE SP+Avisynth : DVD Shrink allows me to have a compression ratio for the main movie of 73% after stripping the trailers with DVDStripper (which is a software that automates Ifoedit tasks) and compressed menus to the max, and DVD-RB gives me a compression ratio of 70.4% taking the DVD Shrink DVD9 output (I've compressed the menus with DVD Shrink to allow DVD-RB to give a better result when converting to DVD5) as the source.

[pg55555]

HornyBass

Your .ini file looks ok for me. Only, if you do not have installed CCE 2.5 you can eliminate the reference to it the the setup. If you have it, you need to EclCCE files, each pointing to its corresponding ccesp.exe.

I'm no sure what is your problem now. You mention yu have succesfully backed up BadBoys II with RB, just like Shrink output more.

From your postings, you ripped the DVD, then striped the trailers and compressed the menus. This is the input you feed to RB, with CCE SP 2.67 trial in One Pass. You have no steal from extras neither Half D1 and Half space from extras selected. Nothing wrong here and it worked.

Do you want to improve the quality of your output?
- Do not use One Pass. Your selection of 3 passes is right.
- After striping the trailers, do you have other extras? if Yes, select "Half D1 and Half Space form Extras"
- Do you have more than one language selected? Do you need the extra language? If not, deselect the ones you are not going to use.

Regarding the use of avs filters as Undot it is my understanding they are good to clean poor quality sources (as home made films, old films). It should not give good results with retail DVDs as Bad Boys.

[HornyBass]

Originally posted by pg55555
HornyBass

Your .ini file looks ok for me. Only, if you do not have installed CCE 2.5 you can eliminate the reference to it the the setup. If you have it, you need to EclCCE files, each pointing to its corresponding ccesp.exe.

I'm no sure what is your problem now. You mention yu have succesfully backed up BadBoys II with RB, just like Shrink output more.

From your postings, you ripped the DVD, then striped the trailers and compressed the menus. This is the input you feed to RB, with CCE SP 2.67 trial in One Pass. You have no steal from extras neither Half D1 and Half space from extras selected. Nothing wrong here and it worked.

Do you want to improve the quality of your output?
- Do not use One Pass. Your selection of 3 passes is right.
- After striping the trailers, do you have other extras? if Yes, select "Half D1 and Half Space form Extras"
- Do you have more than one language selected? Do you need the extra language? If not, deselect the ones you are not going to use.

Regarding the use of avs filters as Undot it is my understanding they are good to clean poor quality sources (as home made films, old films). It should not give good results with retail DVDs as Bad Boys.

I have stripped all the extras, I have selected the languages and subtitles I wanted (English and French). And from what you just said I guess I just can remove the undot filter.

I've turned to DVD-RB as I've read that it was giving better results than DVD Shrink, so I guess I have to tweak more Quality-Prec and the number of passes or this is the best result I'll get with DVD-RB when backing up Bad Boys 2, then I don't know when I must backup with DVD Shrink and when I must backup with DVD-RB, if I have to test with each one, and then decide which one to use to backup, then I think it's too much time spending backingup one DVD.

Maybe I should change the type of matrix, but I don't know what type of matrix to use. Is it the same than when changing Adaptive Error Compensation in DVD Shrink?

[TheSeeker]

To decide what program to use I usually use this as an indication:

If the backup requires 65% or more compress I use Rebuilder otherwise I go with Shrink. Or if its a really extremely high action movie that I want to make sure looks nice on those high action scenes I will also use Rebuilder. Otherwise for most of my backups I use shrink. Its really quite a good program. I would say in your case Bad boys 2 would be a good one to do with REbuilder. You can use custom matrices with RB-Opt but I dont know that you need to. What is the reduction percentage the Rebuilder gives after the prepare phase? If you got rid of all the extras I cant imagine its having to reduce the movie by all that much so you really shouldnt need a custom matrice. I usually only use those on really highly compressed movies. Also I would NOT use filters on this movie. It will only make things worse.

[HornyBass]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
To decide what program to use I usually use this as an indication:

If the backup requires 65% or more compress I use Rebuilder otherwise I go with Shrink. Or if its a really extremely high action movie that I want to make sure looks nice on those high action scenes I will also use Rebuilder. Otherwise for most of my backups I use shrink. Its really quite a good program. I would say in your case Bad boys 2 would be a good one to do with REbuilder. You can use custom matrices with RB-Opt but I dont know that you need to. What is the reduction percentage the Rebuilder gives after the prepare phase? If you got rid of all the extras I cant imagine its having to reduce the movie by all that much so you really shouldnt need a custom matrice. I usually only use those on really highly compressed movies. Also I would NOT use filters on this movie. It will only make things worse.

As I've posted DVD-RB gives compression ratio of 70.4%, and I got rid of the extras with DVD Stripper, then used DVD Shrink (in DVD9 mode) to compress the menus, and this is this DVD Shrink output that I use as the source in DVD-RB.

I have CCE Patcher 0.5.7, that allows to changes matrixes, here is a part of the .txt file (that comes with that patcher) concerning matrixes, I'm only including a part of that file because the comments on other matrixes available are in german, and I don't speak german, I guess you don't too :

To set quantization matrices, click Matrices...button in the Quality
settings window.There are quantization matrices for intra block
and non-intra block. You can set each matrix independently.



To set the value, edit the displayed quantization matrices directly.

a) The range you can specify is from 1 through 127
(3 In MPEG standard, upto 255 is allowed, but restricted by the program, you
can set only upto 127.)

b) Setting value other than 8 to (1,1) element in intra block violates MPEG standard.




Each set has the following characteristics:


1. 'Standard' is the standard setting of Cinema Craft Encoder SP.
This setting was used for evaluation when the
MPEG-2 international standard algorithm was determined.
For natural images, this setting is appropriate.


2. 'MPEG standard' is the default setting of the
MPEG-2 international standard. If relatively high bitrate is used
and the image quality must be improved, use of this setting may
improve the image quality.


3. 'Smooth (CG etc.)' is appropriate for CG images (Computer Graphics) with low noise.


4. 'Very low bitrate' is intended to be used when the bitrate is
4 Mbps or less.


5. 'Ultra low bitrate' is intended to be used when the bitrate is
2 Mbps or less. But how low you can specify depends on source file.

During the preparation DVD-RB is saying that the Overall Bitrate is 3358kbs, and that the High/Low/Average Cells Bitrate is 4088/2265/3358kbs. So I guess I have to use choice number 4.