Guide: Stereo to 5.1 upmix using DPLII (2nd Ed.)

[joshbm]

Stereo to 5.1 upmix using DPLII (2nd Ed.)
Originally posted by bleo (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57736), Updated by joshbm

Last Updated on October 28, 2004

This Updated Version adds/revises the following:
- Optional LFE channel to the DPLII upmix.
- Eliminates the need for a Hex Editor.
- Allows user to increase bit from 16-bit to 32-bit float.
- Correct channels with channel swapping
- Optional WAVE_EXT header.
- Sample Rate conversion on the fly, +more!

I. Software Required
All software used in this guide is freeware.
InterVideo Processor Fx (full 1.54 MB (http://www.videocdpro.com/josh/ivideopfx.zip), required only 182 KB (http://www.videocdpro.com/josh/ivideoexp.zip)), from InterVideo WinDVD (Trial) (http://www.intervideo.com/)
GraphEdit
ffdshow (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ffdshow/ffdshow-20041012.exe?download) (http://ffdshow.sourceforge.net/)
BeSweet or other multi-channel encoder[/list=1]II. Stereo to 6-Channel Wave
[list=1] Download and install the required software if you have not already. While you are downloading, it might be a good idea to briefly look over Section IV: Other Useful Information and apply changes accordingly. You may want to add 5 seconds of black to your video and 5 seconds of silence to your audio to allow the filter to mute the first ~1.5 seconds. Look at Section IV for more information.

Make sure you run "register.bat" when you unzip GraphEdit and if you downloaded the full or required filters above. It contains filters such as WavDest necessary to this guide.

In GraphEdit go to File > Render Media File... > Open your 2-channel audio file

Clear everything except your stereo 2-channel file as well as "Wave Parser"

Go to Graph > Insert Filters... > DirectShow Filters >
- Click on "InterVideo Audio Processor Fx > Insert Filter"
- Click on "ffdshow Audio Decoder > Insert Filter"
- Click on "WavDest > Insert Filter"
- Click on "File writer > Insert Filter"
* Once you have inserted File writer it will prompt you for a filename. This is your output 6-channel DPLII file.
* DO NOT connect these filters up *yet*!

Setting up ffdshow Audio Decoder.
- Right click on "ffdshow Audio Decoder" > "Filter Properties..."
- Under "Supported Codecs" scroll down to "Uncompressed" (or whichever your input filetype is) and click on Decoder and make sure it is set to "all supported".
- If LFE is desired check "LFE Crossover" and click on it. Set the "Lowpass frequency" to about 120 (or your desired bass range) and set the gain appropriately (mine is at 0db). You may also choose to remove the bass from your incoming channels.
- From this point the channel mapping is as follows:
* Channel 1->"FL"
* Channel 2->"FR"
* Channel 3->"C"
* Channel 4->"LFE"
* Channel 5->"SL"
* Channel 6->"SR"
In order for channel mapping to be correct for most AC3 encoders (including BeSweet), you need to map the channels to:
* Channel 1->"FL"
* Channel 2->"C"
* Channel 3->"FR"
* Channel 4->"SL"
* Channel 5->"SR"
* Channel 6->"LFE"
And thus need to check "Channel Swap" and enter the following:Front left -> front left
Front center -> front right
Front right -> front center
Back left -> LFE
Back center -> back center
Back right -> back left
LFE -> back right- Check "Mixer" and click on it. "Output speakers configuration" should be set to "3/2+LFE 5.1 channels"
- Click "Input/Output" and select all "Allowed sample formats..." and only check one desired "Supported output sample format".
- Some programs do NOT support wave files that are WAVE_EX (like BeSweet's ac3enc!)-- which is what ffdshow outputs! To remove this check: "Don't use WAVEFORMATEXSIBLE header when not needed"
- Click "Apply" then "OK" to exit with changes.

Connect it up similarly to:
stereo.wav > Wave Parser > InterVideo Audio Processor Fx > ffdshow Audio Decoder > WavDest > File writer

Setting up InterVideo Audio Processor Fx.
- Right click on "InterVideo Audio Processor Fx" > "Filter Properties..."
- Set the "Output CH" to "6 SPEAKER"
- Click on the "InterVideo Container DMO" tab.
- Click "InterVideo EXP DMO" under "Available DMOs" and click "Append <---"
- Click OK to exit the settings.

Hit the Play button in GraphEdit and immediately follow by clicking Stop. This is necessary because "InterVideo Audio Processor Fx" filter needs to "initialize".

Change settings in InterVideo Audio Processor Fx.
- Right click on "InterVideo Audio Processor Fx" > "Filter Properties..."
- Click on the "InterVideo EXP DMO" tab.
- Set the "Algorithm" to "ProLogic2"
- Click OK to exit the settings.

Hit the Play button within GraphEdit and wait until it has finished (play button reactivates).
[/list=1]
You now have a 6-Channel wave with LFE, no Hex Editing, channel swapped, at the desired bit-rate, ready for multichannel encoding in AC3, DTS, etc formats.

III. Stereo to 6-Channel AC3 Using ffdshow (ffmpeg's ac3enc)
You can not go to directly ac3 as of *yet*. That is why you must first create a 6ch wav, then run it through an AC3 encoder such as BeSweet (ac3enc from ffmpeg).
Originally posted by Milan Cutka at 2004-10-13 21:46 (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1043689&group_id=53761&atid=471490)
I added a possibilty to connect ffdshow output directly to file writer and store data to a file. I tested it with ac3 and it produced a valid file.

However, it's still not it 20041012 version. in the next version, which should be ready within a month, or earlier if some serious bug will be found in current build..IV. Other Useful Information[list] WinDVD's filter: InterVideo Processor Fx (using the DPLII upmix) mutes the first ~1.5-2 seconds. A temporary fix would be to add ~1.5+ seconds of black to your video and ~1.5+ seconds of silence to the beginning of your audio (must be an equal amount). This way it will allow the filter to mute the first ~1.5 seconds-- which is silence anyway.

If you do not want WinDVD on your system, but want the filters to remain (InterVideo Processor Fx), then ahgc has a valid solution:Originally posted by Antonio at 2004-10-25 17:46 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84330#post561768)
Just keep graphedit window opened (using "Intervideo Audio Processor FX" filter) and perform normal uninstall of windvd. This way it will not remove the filter (c:\program files\intervideo\common\bin\*). [You will also need to regsvr32 each file.]: I've done this for you, download full 1.54 MB (http://www.videocdpro.com/josh/ivideopfx.zip) or required only 182 KB (http://www.videocdpro.com/josh/ivideoexp.zip) above for only the filters and run "register.bat".

Antonio (ahgc) also has another interesting comment:[i]Originally posted by Antonio at 2004-10-23 03:12 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83384&perpage=20&pagenumber=2#post560830)
[B]1. There is in fact some limitating factor concerning file size (destination), [around 4 GB]. I believe it has to do either with WavDest filter or File Writer filter.
1.1. My solution was to split the source WAV into 2 and run them through graphedit separately. Then join them back toghether. Worked perfectly. UrsaMtl pointed out as well:
Originally posted by ursamtl at 2004-10-25 19:36 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83384&perpage=20&pagenumber=2#post561834)
For those of you upmixing music, you might want to switch to Music mode because the default DPLII Movie mode is optimized (especially in terms of its steering logic) for movie soundtracks with centered dialog. According to Dolby documentation, this may inadvertently center vocals that are intentionally off-center, etc. The other settings such as Panorama, Dimension, Center width control, Autobalance, etc.

For more information on these settings, you can check out Dolby Surround Pro Logic II Decoder Principles of Operation (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/209_Dolby_Surround_Pro_Logic_II_Decoder_Principles_of_Operation.pdf). The Dolby Technical Library (http://www.dolby.com/resources/tech_library/index.cfm) has several other informative articles.__________________________________

Of course you can modify ffdshow settings to your liking as well as upmixing methods with Dolby Prologic II in InterVideo Audio Processor Fx such as Movie Mode and Music Mode as UrsaMtl pointed out. Sometimes I like to check "Sample Rate" and change the samplerate from 44100 Khz to 48000 Khz.

[u]Related Threads:
Stereo to AC3 5.1? (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84330)

Troubleshooting: If you have *already* gone through this guide and are having problems with setting WAVE_EXT, bit-rate, etc. Make sure the settings in ffdshow are your desired ones and then clear your Graph and create a new one. Sometimes it will take clearing your graph and starting over again to get the graph to work properly.

Regards,
Josh

[Sycho]

will the chnnels still be in the wrong order?

[joshbm]

No, the order has been corrected. [edited for readability]

[edit]
Guide modified to use ffdshow instead of AC3Filter for easier channel switching.

Regards,
Josh

[joshbm]

[post deleted for readability sake]

[joshbm]

If you are encoding for BeSweet with ac3enc the current method above *should* be perfect because of its naming convention:

Channel 1->"FL"
Channel 2->"FR"
Channel 3->"C"
Channel 4->"LFE"
Channel 5->"SL"
Channel 6->"SR"

[Found to be incorrect, guide updated with proper channel swapping for BeSweet]

Otherwise use Channel Swapping in ffdshow ;) [removed useless guide].

P.S. - Where's the cake and ice cream? It's my 150th POST! :D

Regards,
Josh

[Edited for correct readability]

[joshbm]

The new ffdshow now supports channel switching... it is a faster method than the matrix method I posted above. Give ffdshow a try, I am currently in the process of talking over the new features (WAVE_EX as optional) with a ffdshow developer.

Regards,
Josh

[joshbm]

Updated! :D

[joshbm]

* New version of ffdshow 20041012.

Watch for a new ffdshow version with a Direct Show Real-time AC3 encoder ;)! So instead of having a wave output file first (1.1MB/sec, 6ch, 32-bit float, 48000 Khz ~3.9 GB/hr wave!) then plugging that file into BeSweet, encode directly from your original stereo file to Dolby Digital 5.1 DPLII upmixed :D.

[Sycho]

channel coupling or not?

[joshbm]

Channel coupling? Elaborate for this newbie please ;).

Regards,
joshbm

[KpeX]

Originally posted by Sycho
channel coupling or not? Probably not, since ffdshow most likely uses the ffmpeg ac3 encoder, so you can expect the same results/features as besweet's ac3enc.

[Sycho]

Originally posted by KpeX
Probably not, since ffdshow most likely uses the ffmpeg ac3 encoder, so you can expect the same results/features as besweet's ac3enc. i was under the impression that it could be implemented

[ahgc]

I found this method to be quite simple so I gave it a go (well many many goes). I can get the 6ch wav correctly but when I try to go directly to the AC3 file (using the switch on ffdshow) I get a "mute" file. Correct length and size but no output. Thx in advance for your help.
Regds,

Antonio

[joshbm]

You can not go to directly ac3 as of *yet*. That is why you must first create a 6ch wav, then run it through an AC3 encoder such as BeSweet (ac3enc from ffmpeg).

Originally posted by Milan Cutka at 2004-10-13 21:46 (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1043689&group_id=53761&atid=471490)
I added a possibilty to connect ffdshow output directly to file writer and store data to a file. I tested it with ac3 and it produced a valid file.

However, it's still not it 20041012 version. [It will be available] in the next version, which should be ready within a month, or earlier if some serious bug will be found in current build..

[edited guide to reflect this]

[Chainmax]

joshbm: you say the original method was perfect for encoding with BeSweet, is this one not good for it? Also, when ffdshow gets its realtime AC3 encoder, could this guide have the two methods (i.é: encoding with ffdshow and encoding with BeSweet)?

[joshbm]

Chainmax:

I am not saying the new method is not perfect for encoding BeSweet. What I was saying is that if you follow this method the channel order should be perfect for BeSweet encoding-- no Channel Swapping necessary. On the other hand, other encoders have different channel mapping and would indeed require modification (Channel Swapping in ffdshow). So to get to the point: the old method *and* this new method are identical, other than the newly added features, like added LFE etc. and they are both ready for BeSweet encoding.

For your second question: I am not sure if I would divide it up to use BeSweet AND ffdshow. I may, but that would be a little strange to do so, since BeSweet and ffdshow both use the same exact AC3 encoding method from ffmpeg's ac3enc.

Regards,
Josh

[ahgc]

Okay I've got a problem here.. Every wav I run through this process the 6ch wav output gets cut at 62m08s (obviously for sources bigger than that). If I don't use ffdshow in between, that is, connect intervideo directly to wavdest I get the full wav 1XXm:XXs. Tried many settings on ffdshow and also uninstall/install.
Any ideas why this is happening. Thx in advance,

Antonio

PS: The "cut" file goes around 3,99GB and the "full" file is around 3.53GB (?)

[joshbm]

Hmmm... I will look into it. I am unsure of this problem. If it appears to be ffdshow, I'll have to ask Milan and see if this is a problem and if he can fix it.

I have not done an example with a timecode larger than about 20 minutes.

Regards,
Josh

[Chainmax]

About the BeSweet and FFDShow question, what I actually meant was if the FFDShow encoding section could be written so that FFDShow could be replaced by other AC3 encoders (like Surcode).

[ahgc]

@joshbm

Thank you for your patience and quick reply. Tried with numerous movies' audio and same result. Meanwile I am using ac3filter instead of ffdshow (for channel swapping and SW) and wav files come out ok. Using them directly on besweet. Thanks

[joshbm]

Chainmax:

Yes I will write with more then just BeSweet and ffdshow in mind :), but I believe that you will have to first output to wave. Then from there take the wave and input it into something like Surcode. Unless someone has devised a DirectShow filter to implement Surcode's AC3 Encoding.

ahgc:

Yes, AC3Filter works very nicely. This guide was written with AC3Filter in mind at the very first revision. It was shortly changed thereafter, due to channel swapping complications as well as lack of program revision. The only real difference that I would see a need to use ffdshow over AC3Filter is: the LFE sounds much better with ffdshow as well as ffdshow carries a multitude of different options-- such as: Resampling the audio to 48000 Khz on the fly and again if Channel Swapping was a necessity (as noted before, AC3Filter swaps channels improperly if an LFE is desired).

Regards,
Josh

[ahgc]

Ok.. still struggling .. Here's the situation:

-> 2 Channel WAV - 135m41s - 1.33GB
Running it through this process (either with ac3filter or ffdshow) I get
-> 6 Channel WAV - 135m15s - 3.99GB -> that's 26 sec missing!
But.. If I replace "WavDest+Filewriter" with "Dump" filter I get a 4.01GB file (not readable by player of course but most likely is complete with those 26 missing seconds)
My question is if the "WavDest+Filewriter" filter combination has any filesize limits. Thx
Regds,

Antonio

[ahgc]

Well after some testing here are my conclusions:

1. There is in fact some limitating factor concerning file size (destination). I believe it has to do either with WavDest filter or File Writer filter.
1.1. My solution was to split the source WAV into 2 and run them through graphedit separately. Then join them back toghether. Worked perfectly.

2. The resultant 6ch wav, when I run it through besweet to create the AC3, channels get swapped in some manner. But if I use the same besweet to separate the 6ch wav into 6 mono wav files, they come out correctly (filenames that is - C, LR, LF etc).
2.2 My solution is to use the tool on this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75833) by Amnon82, to use those six wav in the correct order, to mux them and create the new ac3!

Hope my experiences help someone. If there are simpler solutions please feel free to post :)
Regards,

Antonio

BTW: Found this (download.microsoft.com/download/winmediatech40/Utility/1.0/W98NT42KMeXP/EN-US/6channel.exe) great 6ch (wav and wma) on MS's site to test channels. It might be useful to most of us!

[joshbm]

Thanks for the post! I have a question, why not use ffdshow to channel swap? What channels are getting "mixed up"?

PS- I was also thinking that I'm glad ffdshow will soon support direct real-time AC3 encoding to a file-- because then you will not have to worry about the size of the file (you will also not have to use WavDest).

Regards,
Josh

[ahgc]

Yes, I am also anxiously waiting fot that feature!
About using ffdshow to do the channel swapping. It still didn't sound quite right on the output to me. But that was most likely due to some mistake I made.
I believe the channels that came out swapped were FR<->C , SR<->LFE and SL seamed to disappear. But I didn't do very extensive testing on this, so I am not quite sure on the accuracy of what I just said.

Regds

Antonio

[joshbm]

Guide updated with channel swapping :). Thanks ahgc, Sakuya, and Sycho for pointing that out!

Regards,
Josh

[ahgc]

Thank you for putting out the correct channel swapping for ffdshow. Worked 5* here. Now only thing missing is really AC3 encoding :)
Regds,

Antonio

[ursamtl]

Originally posted by joshbm
Of course you can modify ffdshow settings to your liking as well as upmixing methods with Dolby Prologic II in InterVideo Audio Processor Fx such as Movie Mode and Music Mode. Sometimes I like to check "Sample Rate" and change the samplerate from 44100 Khz to 48000 Khz.For those of you upmixing music, you might want to switch to Music mode because the default DPLII Movie mode is optimized (especially in terms of its steering logic) for movie soundtracks with centered dialog. According to Dolby documentation, this may inadvertently center vocals that are intentionally off-center, etc. The other settings such as Panorama, Dimension, Center width control, Autobalance, etc.

For more information on these settings, you can check out Dolby Surround Pro Logic II Decoder Principles of Operation (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/209_Dolby_Surround_Pro_Logic_II_Decoder_Principles_of_Operation.pdf). The Dolby Technical Library (http://www.dolby.com/resources/tech_library/index.cfm) has several other informative articles.

Regards,
Steve.

[joshbm]

Thanks ursamtl, do you mind if I add that to the guide (of course with credit given ;))?

Regards,
Josh

[ursamtl]

Originally posted by joshbm
Thanks ursamtl, do you mind if I add that to the guide (of course with credit given ;))?

Regards,
Josh
Not at all! No need to credit me, it's just a link to the Dolby docs. Nice work on your guide, by the way. I'm glad to see you're updating it as the info and suggestions comes in.

Steve.

[joshbm]

Guide updated.

[ahgc]

Well I was looking for other upmix filters since both I've tried have these problems known to most of us:
- Cyberlink PowerDVD's filter only allows DPL I upmix (rear channels come out the same);
- Intervideo WinDVD's filter chops off one second or two at the beggining of the stream;
Any other filter that allows DPLII upmix?

Regds

Antonio

[joshbm]

Why don't you add a second before in your stereo source?

Regards,
Josh

[ahgc]

[editet - it was an unreadable mess]

Thx for the reply josh. So here's the problem after I looked into this closely.
The filter doesn't appear to actually "shorten" source's duration, but it "mutes" first second and a half (?) of it on the output.
So to perform what you suggested I would have to know that exact "mute" time, and then on the output 6ch wav remove the exact same time from the beggining. Of course experiments are always an option but very time consuming :p

Regds

Antonio

[joshbm]

Did some testing and came out somewhat confused.

Here is the results I received:

Input: 30.00 second, stereo wav (1000 Khz Sine pitch)
Output: 29.7525 second, 6-channel wav (1000 Khz Sine pitch), 1.5 seconds *almost exactly* (I am unsure if it is, breifly looked at it) at beginning was muted. Then a fade in was present (kinda weird).

I saved the stereo.wav file I used as well as the Center output channel. I can post my results, I'll get back to you with more information.

More testing to come.

Regards,
Josh

[joshbm]

I've done some other tests...

Test 1
Tones: 1

Input Length: 30.00 seconds
Input Channels: 2

Output Length: 29.7525 seconds
Output Channels: 6

Difference: 0.2475 seconds clipped off (where?)
Muted: ~1.5 seconds
___________________________

Test 2
Tones: 2

Input Length: 60 seconds
Input Channels: 2

Output Length: 59.7550 seconds
Output Channels: 6

Difference: 0.245 seconds clipped off
Muted: ~1.5 seconds

You can easily see the mute and the fade in (http://www.videocdpro.com/josh/mute1.jpg) as well as the delay (http://www.videocdpro.com/josh/delay.jpg).
___________________________


Regards,
Josh

[rca29]

I couldn't get this method to work with the Intervideo files provided here. I'm running XP Sp2 just for the record.
The problem is that i cannot select the prologic II (nor even prologic I mode) in the Intervideo Filter properties tab (following all the procedures) as they stay grey.
So i tried to use the (already) installed "Cyberlink Audio Effect" filter from Cyberlink's PowerDvd 5.0 .
All the steps remained the same as in this guide (including channel swap), with exception made to final ac3 encode made with SoftEncode (a personal taste here).

The results were great, so i thought sharing my experience.

Thanks a lot for this guide and good encodings

[joshbm]

Make sure you double click register.bat when you download the InterVideo files. Also be sure not to delete the files or move them once you have registered them. If that does not work, download and install the trial version of InterVideo.

About CyberLink Audio Effect, it only upmixes to Dolby Prologic I, even though you have selected DPLII. The rear channels are exactly the same.

PS- I am glad you have found this guide useful :).

Regards,
Josh

[Sycho]

Originally posted by ahgc
- Cyberlink PowerDVD's filter only allows DPL I upmix (rear channels come out the same);
okay to clear up the hole cyberlink thing. The filter used by Power DVD is a Dolby Surround Pro Logic II decoder, but it only has Dolby Surround Pro Logic enabled, no Pro Logic II, just Pro Logic

[Sakuya]

This is kind of off topic but I got 20040828 of FFDSHOW and I cannot find Channel Swap on the list in FFDSHOW Audio Decorder properties. Version 20041012 won't work for me because after I installed that, whenever I open an AVI in Vdub or VdubMOD, I get an error like this:

Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'XVID'(unknown).
Virtualdub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to
decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media Player, are not suitable. Only 'Direct Stream Copy' is available for this video.

And yes, all my videos play fine in every other player. When installing FFDSHOW, I did check all the filters related to Virtualdub. The only thing I unchecked not to install was the documents. Version 20040828 makes AVI files work in Vdub but it does not have Channel Swap. :(

For Versoin 20041012, I'm pretty sure it worked until I installed InterVideo DVD 6. I'm really sure of it! :angry: Right after I installed that, it wouldn't work in Vdub no more. Since you uploaded that ZIP file of filters, I uninstalled InterVideo. But it still won't work in Vdub. So I went to install a previous version and it worked. Any help is appreciated.

[ahgc]

Just a new tip: the new Cyberlink Powerdvd 6's filter allows DPLII upmix :)
Btw, any news on a new version of ffdshow (ac3 output..)

Regds

[joshbm]

Thanks ahgc for your update!

I'll have to check it out. By the way, so far I haven't heard anything from Milan about ffdshow. To check for updates check the ffdshow website for updates periodically.

PS- 200 POSTS! HAPPY 200 POSTS TO ME! :D :p

Regards,
joshbm

[hrlslcbr]

Looks like no one posts here anymore, but I have to ask something.
It seems that the InterVideo filter has the same channel order to the Cyberlink filter (which doesn't modify the length of the audio, nor does it mute the first seconds). The question is; where should each channel be swapped for using this as a Pro-Logic II decoder to use with my GameCube?
For example, should I swap the channels to match AC3Filter's channel configuration and use that filter before outputting the audio to be rendered?
Thanks.

[dark.soft]

- From this point the channel mapping is as follows:
* Channel 1->"FL"
* Channel 2->"FR"
* Channel 3->"C"
* Channel 4->"LFE"
* Channel 5->"SL"
* Channel 6->"SR"
In order for channel mapping to be correct for most AC3 encoders (including BeSweet), you need to map the channels to:
* Channel 1->"FL"
* Channel 2->"C"
* Channel 3->"FR"
* Channel 4->"SL"
* Channel 5->"SR"
* Channel 6->"LFE"
And thus need to check "Channel Swap" and enter the following:

Quote:
Front left -> front left
Front center -> front right
Front right -> front center
Back left -> LFE
Back center -> back center
Back right -> back left
LFE -> back right



Are you sure that the channel switching is correct? In your quote, you say, for example, to change in ffdshow the LFE channel with the back right one, but according to what you say above, I should change it with the back left. Is this right or I have misunderstood? Can you post a screen of ffdshow with the correct channel order for clarity?

[joshbm]

@dark.soft: Okay... I will do this in the morning... It's quite late here and I'm tired

@hrlslcbr: I have not tried the new Cyberlink DPLII upmixing method. The old one strictly upmixed to DPLI (which made rear right and rear left sound exactly the same). I will try this in the morning as well :-P.

Regards,
joshbm

[joshbm]

@dark.soft:

Yes the channel ordering is correct with channel swapping. If you do not believe me, run through this process and encode an ac3 file yourself. Then burn it to a DVD and test it through a 5.1 speaker system. I have run multiple tests and it is the correct channel order.

I will post a screen momentarily.

PS- What Cyberlink product has DPLII upmixing capabilities (so I can download it, test it, and possibly update the guide)?

Regards,
joshbm

[dark.soft]

@joshbm

Sorry, you were right: the channel order is correct, I discovered it today, thank you!

I have two little OT questions: soft encode is a good AC3 encoder? I can't find out information on a good encoder (excluding ac3enc, wich I don't like). Another thing is: I have 6 mono wavs obtained from a 5.1 wav created by your process, and I need to normalize them individually with sound forge. So, when i choos process>normalize, then I want them at a certain average RMS level, not the standard -31. So, if I have, say, a wav file at -40 db, and I want it at -27, what should I choose in the normalize to slider? And what should I choose at the "if clipping occurs" option to have a better result? Finally, in the scan settings, excluding the "use equal loudness contour option", what other options should I use?

I'm very sorry to ask these things here, but in my topic nobody answered, and I see you're pretty good in audio treatment ;).

[hrlslcbr]

PowerDVD 6 installs a filter that can do PLII upmixing.

[krieger2005]

I have also problems with the Intervideo Filters. I search in the net and it seems, that cyberlink's filter to upmix the sout is "Cyberlink Audio Effect".

[OCedHrt]

I'm not sure if this is equivalent, but in the current ffdshow you can simply use the dolby decoder to do upmixing.

This seems to take care of everything including LFE.

So, in ffdshow, you would only need to have dolby decoder checked. I also use volume to do normalization, but that's not necessary (although from here you can see that indeed LFE is being generated).

Additionally, ac3 output is working. Just make sure you change the output back to 16bit when you're done otherwise ffdshow only decodes to spdif (hence no sound).

[tebasuna51]

I'm not sure if this is equivalent, but in the current ffdshow you can simply use the dolby decoder to do upmixing.

This seems to take care of everything including LFE.

So, in ffdshow, you would only need to have dolby decoder checked.
Work, but with bad channel separation:
Contents (in %) in recovered (') channels
from original channels

ffdshow Dolby decoder
FL FR C LFE SL SR
--- --- --- --- --- ---
FL' 94 7 17 - 84 9
FR' 6 97 17 - 9 82
C' 48 45 1xx - 10 10
LFE' 10 6 3 - 7 6
SL' 79 0 0 - 1xx 68
SR' 0 79 0 - 69 1xx
Where 1xx is more than 100% then clipped.

You can see Cyberlink Audio Effect (Power DVD 7) more effective recover at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=938466#post938466
PowerDVD 6 also work like hrlslcbr say.

[OCedHrt]

Work, but with bad channel separation:
Contents (in %) in recovered (') channels
from original channels

ffdshow Dolby decoder
FL FR C LFE SL SR
--- --- --- --- --- ---
FL' 94 7 17 - 84 9
FR' 6 97 17 - 9 82
C' 48 45 1xx - 10 10
LFE' 10 6 3 - 7 6
SL' 79 0 0 - 1xx 68
SR' 0 79 0 - 69 1xx
Where 1xx is more than 100% then clipped.

You can see Cyberlink Audio Effect (Power DVD 7) more effective recover at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=938466#post938466
PowerDVD 6 also work like hrlslcbr say.

Ah. But that's not free ^^

[tebasuna51]

Ah. But that's not free ^^

You are right. If you want a free tool you can use ATSurround plugin for Foobar2000:
ATSurround-AS2 (Foobar)
FL FR C LFE SL SR
--- --- --- --- --- ---
FL' 67 0 6 - 30 3
FR' 0 67 6 - 3 30
C' 6 6 67 - 1 1
LFE' - - - - - -
SL' 7 4 2 - 51 45
SR' 4 7 2 - 45 51
really better than ffdshow.

[OCedHrt]

Thanks :)

But I've already tried. I get a sharing violation on the destination file after about 62 minutes into the audio when converting to 6ch WAV.

BTW, how do you check/generate that information in the table?

[tebasuna51]

I get a sharing violation on the destination file after about 62 minutes into the audio when converting to 6ch WAV.
Sorry, I forgot answer you.
Problems with big file size? Greater than 2 GB or 4 GB?
BTW, how do you check/generate that information in the table?
I use a test channel (with channels independents in time) then:
wav6 -> Downmix -> wav2_dpl -> Upmix -> wav6'
And I compare (volume and phase) output channels with input channels.
Of course with real sounds isn't so easy because channel coupling/cancellation, but at least the procedure must work with independents channels.

There are a new plugin for Foobar foo_dsp_fsurround (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=52235)
with better performance with dpl 2.

[plomon]

Here's the screenshot when I tried to load Intervideo Audioprocessor Fx in Graph Edit:

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/299/intfxbh5.jpg

There is no input/output pin to this module to connect anything....what kind of a weird error is this.