Xvid File Sizes (that nobody is talking about)

[chinapoppi]

Hello all :)


This has been a month-long problem----trying to get people to share/explain the File sizing aspects of XVID~:(

I have the XVID version 1.01 by Koepi, AND have read practically "every" tutorial on the subject of configuring this thing---only to find no one paying attention and properly explaining about "file sizes"--without talking like a computer programming manual~! (some say Bitrate, some say Target Size!)

A guy named VIPER, who squeezes "DVD quality" into 350meg Xvid files--gave me this configuration and vanished into thin air~:
"After you rip the dvd, you open the vob in virtualdubmod and run it, then when finished, go to the Video section >compression >select XViD and select a bitrate (Vipers are around 500). Then go to save avi.
Ok, I happily did just that:

http://img27.exs.cx/img27/2327/xvidconfigure.jpg


OR


http://img51.exs.cx/img51/7346/xvidORconfig.jpg


...And result(s) are a Huge, Bad quality 1+ gig file (even with compressed MP3 audio, created with DBpowerAmp)~


http://img27.exs.cx/img27/1158/dbamp.jpg



Then, I come to Doom9 site--and they have me using GordianKnot/Xvid, which has a problem "seeing" the DVD2AVI-generated .D2V files (which means I cannot even load VOB)~

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80564
(4th comment down~)

And I have even "Googled" for Xvid tutorials, and went to Koepi's site---and still, nothing on "creating" (and insuring)a 700meg or LESS, Hiqh Quality Xvid CD file~~!

Why, has not this subject focused any light?

Besides "quality", the Size is the next thing everyone is concerned with, yes?

I thank you, for any experienced (and hopefully) "imaged" tutorial anyone can provide me/us~!

:rolleyes:

BTW--WinXP proSP1,AMD AthlonXP1700+ cpu, 512ram, Nvidia Gforce400

[unmei]

i'm not sure this would not belong into the newbie section, but anyway: ..

The reson some people talk about target bitrate and others talk about target filesize is, as you might have seen, this button shows one in one of your screen shots and the other in the other screenshot. You can specify either the

*bitrate - then your file size in kilobyte = length of the video (in seconds) * kbps you enter /8.

*size - then your file size in kilobyte = directly what you enter.

you toggle between target size and target bitrate mode by pressing that label where there is witten "target.." it is actually a button

That is in your second screenshot you are asking xvid to compress the entire movie into half a megabyte! This will obviously not be possible and is probably the reason it goes completly crazy.

For DVD backups you would want to have numbers like for example 500 or 1000 in that files for target bitrate mode - or numbers like 665600 (KB == 650MB) for target size mode.
I recommend you use the target size mode, that way you dont need to mess with calcualation to reach a certain size.

More remarks:

*you should probably not use the single pass mode for DVD backups, it is a constant bitrate mode that will allocate the same amount of bits for each time interval. This is not so intelligent when you have simple scenes like almost no motion and high motion scenses it is much more intelligent to let xvid put the bits where they are needed (with 2-pass more). The single pass mode is mainly for capturing in realtime or when you otherwise care more for encoding speed than video quality.

*You do not mention anything, but you have a screenshot of single pass mode and one for 2-pass second pass. Are you aware that the 2-pass second pass only makes sense when you made a run of 2-pass first pass before? It needs to analys the video in that first pass so it will know where the difficult and where the easy scenses are. If you run 2-pass second pass without a prior first pass it will just use what was in the stats file before (if it even exists) and does arbitrary scaling based on that (in this case) meaningless data. A lack of a first pass could be your second reason for random filesize with bad quality.

*finally one thing that is not absolutely necessary for a start, but still a good idea: the only "advanced" setting i think even beginners should change, epsecially when you have size issues, is in "advanced options" -> quantisation tab, change all the "1" in the fields labeled "min." into "2"s (but leave the 31 in max fields at 31!)

i hope this clears something up

[chinapoppi]

Hello Unmei :(

Thanks for the quick reply~!

And....huh?

I do not know what you are really talking about...unfortunately I am a newbieGal, and just now learning about encoding things~

I am "not" interested" in encoding for DVD--it would be the other way around--DVD to VCD (in size that is~)

You know, many people like myself, need to be able to follow new technology "visually"(images)---would you be able to provide images/calculations for what you are describing~?

Or, since you have more experience than I, would you know of any Templates/calculations for VCD settings you can point me too? (much like in TmegEnc>settings>templates)

Umm..if I am reading you right, you said: "Use target "size"(until I am experienced)--and use that calculation (for 650meg)--yes???

And I read (getting confused again) that "single" pass, was for those trying to convert file to VCD...is that also false? (if so, what is the correct "encoding" type, for Quality and Small size VCD's?)

One more thing please....can I "reset" Xvid back to its default state, by clicking the "load defaults" button?? (as you can see, I really messed mine up~!)


I again, thank you for the assistance~!:cool:

[manono]

Hi-

The XviD codec is for creating .avi. VCD is .mpg, and is a completely different animal. If you'd like to try out the XviD codec, and make some nice looking movies without the frustration you seem to be having, then I might recommend you try Auto Gordian Knot (http://www.doom9.org/autogk.htm).

And if you really want to make VCDs (only God knows why, because I sure don't), then you might want to try DVD2SVCD (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvd2svcd.htm).

And yes, clicking "Load Defaults" will reset XviD back to its default state.

[chinapoppi]

Xiansheng manono ni hao~:)


haha...and thanks for reply, again~!

You made me laugh, when you said: you really want to make VCDs (only God knows why, because I sure don't),

you sound puzzled, and I want to help by explanation....ready~?


I have seen fantastic looking movies that run 2hours+, being squeezed into 700meg or less file sizes (check out Suprnova.org sometimes~)---so my thinking was: "ok, if I can obtain the knowledge I could fit about 8-10 movies onto 1 DVD Data disc, and save HDspace and monies"--and also be able to burn each movie to VCD, that would be playable on my portable DVD player (since it plays CD/CD-rw and Bin/Cue files~!)and the cost would be minimal (DVD's run $40 for 25pk-to-$20 for 50pk CD's)--and being a NYC'er, the little bit of extra money could be well spent obtaining those trendy clothing---you guys seem to like women wearing~! (hahaha):D

No seriously, you have talented people out here who do amazing things with technology---so why, if one is willing to learn (we are not talking Pro sports here)--must only the ones talented, be admired and envied?


Here is a clip of a movie "squeezed" into an amazing 350meg file (via Xvid)~!


http://img43.exs.cx/img43/3148/DVgood1.jpg

(remember my first post--with the messed up Size/Bitrate numbers~?)


Anyway, it was a long speech and your probably thinking I am a bit loonie toons:rolleyes: but I really want to be able to accomplish this feat---if just to say: "I mastered setting the VCR timer--now its on to VCD"~!:p

Thanks for lending me some of your knowledge (and ear)


Zaijian~;)

[the_free_account]

1) I think you are confusing both yourself and others by misusing the term "VCD". What you want to do is convert a DVD to a ~700MB xvid video, which has nothing whatsoever to do with VCDs. You can burn the resulting 700MB xvid video to a *data* CD, which again has nothing to do with VCDs. So, forget all about VCD. =)


2) Yes, most people are visual learners, but editing and uploading images on the web is a lot harder than writing text. Most people, being lazy SOBs, therefore tend not to use images unless it is absolutely necessary.


3) I think you'd be better off sticking with the simplified tools until you're at least minimally comfortable with video compression. Rome was not built in a day and you don't go from learning algebra to learning quantum mechanics without learning a whole bunch of other stuff in between and allowing for sufficent time to digest it.

Go with AutoGK or Gordian Knot and don't try any fancy-dancy stuff like writing your own Avisynth scripts. Just stick with the simple, beginner-level guides on this site and you can't go wrong.

Good luck,
-Mike

[manono]

Hi-

You say that the goal is to play your movies on a portable DVD player. That almost certainly means that making XviD .avis will do you no good at all. It'll have to be a DVD/MPEG-4 player, and I don't know of any portables like that (yet). You also may not be able to play VCD/SVCD on it either. You might check your manual, or go here (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers) to check if your player is listed, and if so, what it can play.

I checked out the site you mentioned. The movies listed seem to be a mix of XviD/DivX and VCD, and many more that don't say what they are. But since they deal with pirated material, then we're not supposed to discuss such things.

If you wish to make XviD .avis, then you'll be playing them on your computer (PC or laptop), on an HTPC connected to a television, or on a standalone DVD/MPEG-4 player connected to a TV. Standalones are becoming fairly common now, but I'm not so sure about portables. Unless you can do such things as install codecs and software players into it, you may be out of luck. But I don't know much about portables. But the fact that you plan to burn your XviD movies to DVD-R doesn't make them DVDs, and doesn't mean that they'll play in your DVD player. If it's a laptop computer, that's something else again, and you'll have no problem playing just about anything with the proper codecs, filters, and players installed.

[lexor]

actaully I'm also a bit confused about size options in the Calculator.

It has "Target Size" and "Hours-Minutes-Seconds" setting under Video. It's all fine and dandy when I want to make a full DVD->XViD conversion, but what if I want to make a small preview? I set time to say 0:2:0 (for 0 hours, 2 minutes, 0 second) but what do I do with Target size? What I hope it would do if I leave it at 1433600 setting, is it would not fill ~1.4GB with 2 minutes of video, but instead apply the same rate control as if it was making a 1.4GB video, but only use enough space for 2 minutes, which would make an accurate representation or how those 2 min would look in a full movie.

Is that how it works, or do I have to lower Target Size to about 15MB (aka guestimate how much 2 mins should occupy)?

[Leak]

Originally posted by lexor
apply the same rate control as if it was making a 1.4GB video, but only use enough space for 2 minutes, which would make an accurate representation or how those 2 min would look in a full movie.

Is that how it works, or do I have to lower Target Size to about 15MB (aka guestimate how much 2 mins should occupy)?

You can't get the same ratecontrol for a 2 minute segment if you don't do a first pass for the whole movie, and even then how should XviD know which 2 minutes out of your movie you're going to feed it?

If you simply want to do a two-pass encoding on a part of the video just switch to "Target bitrate" which is also filled by the calculator; this will produce a file of the size you want without having to re-calculate anything, but obviously the rate control will act differently on these 2 minutes than it would on the whole movie...

np: Ulrich Schnauss - Monday - Paracetamol (A Strangely Isolated Place)

[echooff]

chinapoppi
"ok, if I can obtain the knowledge I could fit about 8-10 movies onto 1 DVD Data disc, and save HDspace and monies"

That would be a big money saver, unfortunately quality drops quickly at the bitrate necessary to make that happen. The best I've ever seen was 3 movies on 1 dvd and the quality was lacking. You start to get macroblocks and other artifacts. I usually put 6 half hour tv shows on one disc and even then the quality is off. I would reevaluate this idea. A search of the forum should give you several threads that discuss this, and perhaps make it a little clearer.

[ProfDrMorph]

Originally posted by echooff
chinapoppi


That would be a big money saver, unfortunately quality drops quickly at the bitrate necessary to make that happen. The best I've ever seen was 3 movies on 1 dvd and the quality was lacking. You start to get macroblocks and other artifacts. I usually put 6 half hour tv shows on one disc and even then the quality is off. I would reevaluate this idea. A search of the forum should give you several threads that discuss this, and perhaps make it a little clearer.
I think you're mistaking "burning to DVD" with "burning a Video-DVD". If you burn MPEG4 video ( like XviD ) to a DVD-R you can surely fit about 6 whole movies on one disc ( my 700MB CDR rips usually look just fine and six of those would fit on one DVDR ). But if you use MPEG2 to make a DVD that even non-MPEG4-standalone players can play I wouldn't put more than 2 hours ( = one movie ) on it. :)



@chinapoppi:

the Guides section of doom9.org explains how to to transcode a DVD to XviD and the guides in there also have images. Maybe you should try to follow one of those guides word by word ( the last time I took a look at them there were also some remarks about which guides are more easy to follow if there's more than one way to do what you want ) and if you have a question about a step of one of the guides that you don't understand you can ask that question here.

[chinapoppi]

aiyaaaa~!

@Mike:

I did not know how to word the "700meg or less" output file--only because the Doom9 tutorials never really bother to talk to newbies about "file size" outputs (and that is the reason for this thread~)--so, excuse me if I chose the word VCD~

I would love to use the "simple" tools--just show me one!(that I already do not have, or is not as simple as you think they are~)--just read my post (from the start) and you would see I have tried other encoding tools~

BTW: did you notice the link, at the beginning of this thread?

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80564--(the 4th comment down)




@ProfDrMorph:

IF the guides on Doom9 were so "precise and clear",like you assume they are---they "why" would I have sooooo much problems accomplishing a simple DVD to Xvid encode with exact file size? (as this Thread says~!)

Please, try to read the entire post (as in "from the start")--I supply images along with explanations--then, experienced people can "see" where I went wrong, and explain it too me~! (do not assume that those guides are correct and easy, ok?--what is easy for you, is not for others~)



@the others:

guys, I "never" said that I wanted to "burn" 8-10 movies ONTO a DVD ---I said put them onto a DATA DVD~

I could fit about 8-10 movies onto 1 DVD Data disc, and save HDspace and monies

the word Data=Storage..I know I am new to encoding, but I am not new to the computer world~!

I know some of you might really want to help, but it does no good--if you do not "read" what is written, correct?

[stephanV]

Originally posted by chinapoppi
aiyaaaa~!

I would love to use the "simple" tools--just show me one!

AutoGK is the easiest.

if the guides on Doom9 were so "precise and clear",like you assume they are---they "why" would I have sooooo much problems accomplishing a simple DVD to Xvid encode with exact file size? (as this Thread says~!)

ok heres where you go wrong:

- you took advice from a guy named VIPER ;) (seriously, you shouldnt open VOBs directly in VDubMod. MPEG2 decoding is broken in VDM. a guy who gives such advice clearly doesnt know what he is talking about)

- when you did the single pass, you didnt chose a target file size, but a target bit rate. file size = bit rate * videolength. click on the bit rate/file size button to toggle setting bit rate/file size

- when you did a 2 pass (did you do the first pass?) you seleted a file size of 500 kb, for a normal movie this is a little bit on the low side. 500 MB (+/- 500,000 kb) would be much more in the right direction. the normal way to do a 2pass encoding:

1 select "Twopass- 1st pass" and encode
2 select "Twopass- 2nd pass", set a target bit rate OR file size and encode. do not open the file created by the first pass, but do the 2nd pass with the same source.


for some general reading about encoding i recommend the DivX Guide (http://www.divx.com/support/guides/). Not that i recommend using DivX (i wouldnt recommend XviD either for that matter, but thats my personal opinion), but from it you should be able to learn some basics about what is multipassing and how to get a certain file size.

a more XviD specific document is here (http://www.vslcatena.nl/~ronald/docs/xvidfaq.html)


Please, try to read the entire post (as in "from the start")--I supply images along with explanations--then, experienced people can "see" where I went wrong, and explain it too me~! I know some of you might really want to help, but it does no good--if you do not "read" what is written, correct?

unmei posted more or less the same as I did. since you did not understand his post i think you should familiarise yourself more with the terminology of video encoding. use those links i gave you. take it step by step.

[ProfDrMorph]

Originally posted by chinapoppi
@ProfDrMorph:

IF the guides on Doom9 were so "precise and clear",like you assume they are---they "why" would I have sooooo much problems accomplishing a simple DVD to Xvid encode with exact file size? (as this Thread says~!)

Please, try to read the entire post (as in "from the start")--I supply images along with explanations--then, experienced people can "see" where I went wrong, and explain it too me~! (do not assume that those guides are correct and easy, ok?--what is easy for you, is not for others~)
I actually learned how to encode the movies like I want to them to be ( fit on one 700MB CDR ) from Doom9's guides. I just followed them step by step and after my first few correct DVD rips I started experimenting with the different parameters of the codecs to find out what they do. But I won't bother with this topic anymore. Your questions have been answered several times and your replies show a certain unwillingness to learn... especially those in the other thread you linked here.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hmmm!

It might not be a bad idea to have a revised XviD Q & A sticky. Detailing not only the type of questions forum members such as chinapoppi are struggling with but types of questions like, what is?: -

Adaptive Quantization, Packed Bit-streams, Closed GOV, Zones, VHQ, Chroma Motion, Trellis, etc

I wonder also, if it's time XviD had it's very own 'User Guide' complete with history file...

Such an document might make quite interesting reading when compared next to DivX's effort!

What do you guys think?


Cheers

[Leak]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I wonder also, if it's time XviD had it's very own 'User Guide' complete with history file...

Such an document might make quite interesting reading when compared next to DivX's effort!

What do you guys think?

Sure - every bit of (correct) documentation helps, so why not?

You wouldn't happen to have a link to DivX's effort, by the way?

np: Manual - Fortnights (Until Tomorrow)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Leak
Sure - every bit of (correct) documentation helps, so why not?

You wouldn't happen to have a link to DivX's effort, by the way?

np: Manual - Fortnights (Until Tomorrow) Yep, sure: http://download.divx.com/divx/DivXUserGuide52.exe

Their revised DivX5.2 guide is in a 'secure' PDF.exe format!?!

Personally speaking, their new guide is not as user friendly as their previous guide... but I would not have used PDF anyway!

I can't see what's wrong with good 'ol html... ;)


Cheers

[jk888]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital

It might not be a bad idea to have a revised XviD Q & A sticky. Detailing not only the type of questions forum members such as chinapoppi are struggling with but types of questions like, what is?: -


No doubt! I mentioned this months ago, the current Xvid Q & A, and also the user guides out there done by Doom9 are too complicated for average users. Unless people have experience encoding with Dvix, they will not understand how to encode with Xvid, that's so ironic.

The terminology used in the guides are too complicated for the average users, when you mention "quantisization" the users just looses interest. Maybe first mention WHAT "quantisizer" means first.

The way DivX does their guide is they explain everything in laymen's terms, that's very practical.

Right now the learning curve for Xvid is way too steep, let revise the guides!

[SeeMoreDigital]

stevenV posted a link to an 'Unofficial XviD Guide' over at http://www.vslcatena.nl/~ronald/docs/xvidfaq.html

It answers many questions and is well worth a read... Does anybody know who actually wrote it. I see Crusty maintains it?


Cheers

[niamh]

AFAIK crusty wrote it too, but he's kind of vanished lately....shame, it's a brilliant FAQ

thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70658&highlight=crusty)

[stephanV]

i thought any XviD user would know about this FAQ... :confused: its linked to in the XviD FAQ in this section...

bah, that i need to help out XviD users :p