SP2... good or bad?

[Sirber]

Is XP SP2 good or bad for your system?

IBM thinks no :cool:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/08/09/HNdontinstallxp_1.html

[Joe Fenton]

You don't have enough choices in the poll. Nothing is ever purely good or purely bad, but those are the only choices you allow. So I chose the third option - I didn't vote and just left this reply.

[Doom9]

IBM just has too much software that doesn't work after installing SP2 ;) I for one am very glad that Microsoft finally sacrificed the holy cow of backward compatibility. If that had been done 10 years ago, we'd be having much better computers and software (not in all cases, but in most.. dragging legacy stuff behind you is always a chore and things won't get better over time, only worse as each time there's a patch you risk breaking software nobody understands anymore).

[wmansir]

I haven't installed it yet. I have a hardware firewall, so I'm not to concerned about that. And I've kept up to day with security patches. I don't know what else SP2 offers.

It would have been nice if MS offered the firewall as a separate application. Bundling it with the SP will increase uptake, but a choice would be nice. Even if SP doesn't contain necessary patches, when SP3 is released with crucial patches I'm sure it will require SP2.

[Doom9]

but you have a choice... disable it so it won't bother you. But hardware firewalls don't block applications.. they can only block ports.. so your evil software that sends out data via port 80 will be allowed to connect.. with both hardware firewall and MS' software firewall. That's why I still use Kerio in addition to hardware.

And as far as I can remember, OS service packs have always been cumulative.. so SP2 contains SP1 patches, SP3 contain SP2 and thus SP1 patches, etc.

The DEP feature is something you also only get with this SP, and that's highly effective against buffer overflows.

[echooff]

SP2 broke my system. I updated both of my home computers with dvd burners and neither would burn a dvd afterward. Cd's burned ok but not dvd's. After formating and doing a clean install everything worked ok. What a pima.

[Uli]

I think that SP2 is a major improvement for the 'normal home user', cause the security settings are per default mostly restricted and relative secure for home internet use. So for the home user i would suggest instant installation.

From the point of view of a system administrator in a larger company network SP2 is the ultimate nightmare. Because of the relative restrictive default settings nearly everything needed in a company network is inoperative after install. So the main administrator first has to develop many special group policy settings and has to deploy them together with SP2. This is hard to accomplish, as it is similiar to the hen and egg (which was first?) problem.

But all in all for me M$ has finally proven to be able to develop something useful for the average windoze user. SP2 is not the ultimate solution but a step in the right direction.

greetz, Uli

BTW: i voted 'good' ;)

[Atamido]

Recommend it to anyone that you might need to support. It causes IE to block all executables by default (it tells you in a little bar at the top of the window where you can download it). Because of this it is much much harder for any spyware to get installed on a system. Less spyware means less support calls. I have already started telling my friends to update.

On a related note, I did one update to SP2 and one fresh install with SP2 slipstreamed, and both systems have quite a bit of harddrive activity while they should be idle. Does anyone know if there is some sort of "defrag while idle" type thing going on for SP2? They have 1GB and 512MB of ram respectively.

[Doom9]

On a related note, I did one update to SP2 and one fresh install with SP2 slipstreamed, and both systems have quite a bit of harddrive activity while they should be idle.Now that you mention it, I just noted the same behaviour yesterday evening, but I have no idea what's causing this.

[int 21h]

I've noticed this behavior on SP1 systems as well... never concerned enough to investigate.

[Uli]

Could that be a virus scanning service running in the background? I didn't notice a raise in background disk activity installing SP2. Also there is an approx. 20 Minutes timeout after which former claimed and now freed virtual memory will be released to disk, although no process claimed new virtual memory.

greetz, Uli

[SeeMoreDigital]

It's a good thing...

OK there will be some users who are going to experience problems with some of their applications but this 'security' update was too long in the waiting in my opinion!

Like echooff, I ended up having to format and re-install everything. And I'm still wondering if this is because I'm running a multi-boot PC system... but I'm happy!

But it looks like Micro$ofts "Programs that may behave differently in Windows XP Service Pack 2" list is getting longer: -

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2


Cheers

[Sirber]

I'm finally installing it. I have to test if my encoding tools still works :) Seems the installer create a restoration point as well as backups. I hope it won't screw my system :)

[Uli]

Originally posted by Sirber
I'm finally installing it. I have to test if my encoding tools still works :) Seems the installer create a restoration point as well as backups. I hope it won't screw my system :)

Simply make an image from your boot drive and your xp drive. I always do that with:
Partition Image (http://www.partimage.org/)
It only takes ~10 Minutes to create and only ~2 Minutes to restore.

greetz, Uli

BTW: I still have the SP1 image, just in case ;)

[Sirber]

No problem so far...

[edit]

VSFilter fail.

[Doom9]

there are three main sources of problems that SP2 could give you.

Number one is the firewall. People who have a broadband router or are using a software firewall have the same problems. In fact, it's not like something is wrong with an application, but if anything initializes a connection to your PC, it's better that you know it does and have to create an exception, so I consider that a good thing. But the firewall doesn't actually break anything.

Number two is DCOM. Distributed applications that use DCOM, thus interprocess communication via TCP, will have to deal with the new DCOM security settings. Most PC apps are standalone, hence you won't have to deal with that, and DCOM programmers should already be used to the security nightmares anyway (I know I am). And as long as you have inter process communication via COM (that's the large majority of COM/DCOM apps out there), you won't run into any problems. If you do, well, your software vendor had months and months to anticipate the upgrade, perhaps it would be time to change to a software where the vendor is more proactive when it comes to upgrades ;)

Number three is DEP. I don't know if it's rarer than DCOM, but I presume it's rather rare as well. And here once again, the feature has been documented for ages and it shines a bad light on software makers that were and still are not ready..

If your problem fall into category 1, that can easily be remedied. If it's category two or three, apply some pressure on your ISV. MS has always been under fire for not doing enough for security. Now that they have at least made an attempt, they're being shot at for breaking compatibility. People make up your mind.. you can't have your cake and eat it, security has alwawys been at odds with convenience, you simply can't have it both ways.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've just come across a problem with SP2...

I manually installed the DivX DSdec filter, played a couple of very short DivX encodes (to make sure the filter was working) and then re-booted the PC.

However, the PC would not re-boot :angry:

It worked its way thru' the bios screen, then the 'boot-drive' selection menu, then the Windows XP logo appears. But during the 'loading personal settings' blue background phase, the PC throws a fit and starts the re-boot cycle again!

Anyone have any ideas?

[Sirber]

Had something similar not too long ago (with SP1). Had to format :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Sirber
Had something similar not too long ago (with SP1). Had to format :( It's a wierd one for sure...

Good job I've got my other WinXP Pro SP2 boot drive up and running!


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

First 'High Priority' update released for SP2 - that didn't take long did it...

816093: Security Update Microsoft Virtual Machine (Microsoft VM)
Download size: 5.1 MB,
This update helps resolve a vulnerability in the Microsoft virtual machine. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Once you have installed this item, it cannot be removed.

Cheers

[Uli]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
First 'High Priority' update released for SP2 - that didn't take long did it...
Cheers

Sorry to spoil your joke, but that's for Windows 2000 SP2...

greetz, Uli

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Uli
Sorry to spoil your joke, but that's for Windows 2000 SP2 Well how confusing Uli...

If it's only for Win2K, I wonder why they bothered including it in the new WinXP (SP2) automatic downloads section?

How bizarre!

[Uli]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
How bizarre!

indeed, here the link to that KB article with number 816093:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;816093

It's a bit old and definitely for Win2K :confused:

Maybe it's a flaw in their database. Perhaps the new Windowsupdate V5 is still in beta... :devil:

greetz, Uli


Additionally the Microsoft VM was already deleted from SP1a (the only difference between SP1 and SP1a) and is not likely to be included in SP2.

[bb]

After installing XP SP2 I got big problems with my Belkin 54g WLAN. Connection breaks without reason, then it's back for a short time, then breaks again... And my Jana Server (used as a proxy) failed to work - no more Internet from my Win2000 machine.

I finally uninstalled SP2, and everything works again. What a pity.

bb

[killingspree]

@bb: did you figure out what caused the troubles with the WLAN? i'm using a router/wlan combination at home and am currently considering updating - already dl'ed the sp but haven't installed it yet!

i guess that's another reason to wait... (or not upgarde at all :))

steVe

[bb]

No, sorry, no clue... But it's definitely not the SP2 firewall, because I deactivated it (I'm using Kerio).

bb

[Atamido]

SP2 seems to run fine for me with two exceptions. The windowsupdate site no longer works. I have played with all sorts of security settings, etc. It shows a blank page with a few suggestions in the source, but that is it.

Also, the root of Outlook Express shows a blank page. I suspect these two issues are related, but I am tired of dealing with them.

[Mac Sidewinder]

So far no problems with SP2. I am running a netgear router and it seems to be running fine. The only complaint that I have is that I keep getting a popup from the security monitor saying that I turned Windows firewall off (which I did since I use a third party firewall). I select the option to not monitor it and the next time I boot up there it is again.

Mac

[Uli]

Originally posted by bb
After installing XP SP2 I got big problems with my Belkin 54g WLAN. Connection breaks without reason, then it's back for a short time, then breaks again... And my Jana Server (used as a proxy) failed to work - no more Internet from my Win2000 machine.

I finally uninstalled SP2, and everything works again. What a pity.

bb

@bb: About the WLAN problems:
Deactivate the energy saving options for the WLAN adapter. It's a problem with the access point not waiting long enough to allow the card to wake up from energy saving. So it thinks the client is gone (connection broken) and the client has to connect again (connection working). I had the same probs on a centrino notebook and the new driver from intel solved the problem. Earlier i had to disable the energy saving and all worked fine.

About the proxy problem:
Try a different one. For example, i use proxomitron to filter HTTP traffic and to proxy the internet to my notebook. No probs so far with SP2.

greetz, Uli

[theReal]

I voted "bad" because I always stay away from MS updates for a while until I am sure I hear more good than bad things about them. Most people in this thread think SP2 is good and doesn't have too many flaws, but I'm still going to wait a little longer and read more reviews before I'm going to update (always keeping the "never change a running system" saying in mind)

[bb]

Uli,

thank you for the feedback.
Originally posted by Uli
@bb: About the WLAN problems:
Deactivate the energy saving options for the WLAN adapter. It's a problem with the access point not waiting long enough to allow the card to wake up from energy saving. So it thinks the client is gone (connection broken) and the client has to connect again (connection working). I had the same probs on a centrino notebook and the new driver from intel solved the problem. Earlier i had to disable the energy saving and all worked fine.
The problems occur on a desktop pc, and energy saving has always been disabled for the WLAN card. So I assume it must be something else.
Originally posted by Uli
About the proxy problem:
Try a different one. For example, i use proxomitron to filter HTTP traffic and to proxy the internet to my notebook. No probs so far with SP2.
Well, I have used proxomitron before, but I didn't try it in conjunction with SP2 (didn't try Windows Internet Connection Sharing either, by the way). It's possible that another proxy software will do fine under SP2, but it leaves the bad feeling of "what else might be broken that I have not yet found?".

I'm running SP2 on two other PCs, too, a notebook and another desktop pc. No problems so far with the notebook (Belkin 54g WLAN, too), but on the desktop pc VirtualVCR suddenly quits without a warning during a scheduled capture... (didn't do that before SP2 installation)

bb

[Uli]

Another possible solution:

I use a netgear USB WLAN adapter on my main pc and i had to disable the "Automatic wireless lan configuration" service (in german it's named "Konfigurationsfreie Drahtlosnetzwerkverbindung") to get it to work with XP. This background configuration service from XP always collided with the config tool from netgear. I found the solution in the knowledge base at netgear. I've heard there, that there are also other custom wireless lan configuration tools from other WLAN manufacturers that also have problems with this service. Maybe Belkin is among them?

After disabling this service the netgear adapter worked well with SP1 and SP2. With this service enabled i wasn't even able to connect at all.

greetz, Uli

[bb]

Thanks again, Uli - I'll check that out as soon as I've got the time to reinstall SP2. The "Automatic wireless lan configuration" service could indeed be the problem. In the meantime I have to finish two wedding films for friends who are eagerly waiting for results :)

bb