Different DVD2SVCD Behavior for Different DVDs

[Milehigh]

Hi,

I've been a fairly successful user of the DVD2SVCD suite of programs for over a year.

The continuing principal difficulty I have is that the programs seem to behave and do different things with almost every DVD I try to back up. Sometimes CinemaCraft will work. Sometime not, and it's time to switch to TMPGEnc. Sometimes I get a message that the frame rate is wrong and not supported. Sometime the DVD will not rip at all, no matter what I do ... sometimes it will rip with DVD Decrypter, or by loading it into a different PC with the same DVD2SVCD suite of programs. Sometimes after entering Frame Selection values, the programs will display that they have the two ranges I entered ... and a THIRD duplicate range of the second range, which causes the entire process to not succeed.

For example, I'm backing up a collection of Scooby Doo animation DVDs for the kids. The ones with the multi-color labels work fine. Pop 'em in, run DVD2SVCD, voila, SVCDs. But Hannah-Barberra also has a few really cheap looking DVDs that are solid silver color with a cheap looking embossed title - they look like knock-offs. And they won't rip at all.

It's very strange that the suite will work perfectly with one DVD, and choke on another immediately after.

I've browsed these forums continually, but I can't say I've seen these matters addressed - Why different DVDs make the DVD2SVCD programs behave differently; What are the common differences among various DVDs that can trigger the programs to fail; What are common failures; What are some possible alternatives and solutions.

Have these issues been addressed somewhere that I haven't found? Or can we start a thread or forum on "Typical DVD2SVCD Operation Failures: Causes and Alternatives".

I'd be glad to propose a few topics/failures for discussion.

Regards,

Milehigh

[r6d2]

What you describe regarding errors can be explained by a DVD reader on suboptimal condition. You may want to have it checked.

The multiple range problem typically arises when restarting or reusing previous folders. It is a good idea to have a single folder for each movie, and a clean folder when starting over if you are using frame selection.

Hope this helps.

[Milehigh]

Originally posted by r6d2
What you describe regarding errors can be explained by a DVD reader on suboptimal condition. You may want to have it checked.

I'm not so sure it's that simple. I'm using pretty high-quality equipment. And I've had a DVD rip fail on Machine A, then succeed on Machine B, and still, when the time comes for DVD2SVCD to take the vob files and process them, it hiccups and fails. Or sometimes fails using CinemaCraft but succeeds with TMPGEnc.

And actually I always do create a new folder.

My experience with DVD2SVCD has been this: Imagine a flowchart. Every time I start a new DVD2SVCD project, it's a crapshoot as to what will happen. (Most of the time, upwards of 80%, it works flawlessly.) The processing proceeds step by step through the flowchart, and at any point, it can fail. Then the flowchart branches off into several possible alternatives and work-arounds that I've learned through trial and error, to continue the processing to the next step of the flowchart.

I've had so many bizarre experiences, there are too many to list. Like the time I couldn't get the second SVCD of the second range of a DVD to come out without video/audio synching problems. My eventual solution: reprocess the job with only one range - the second one. I fooled DVD2SVCD into thinking the second half of the DVD was the first half - and got a perfect rendering. This has happened maybe three times out of 50 or 60 conversions.

This kind of weird stuff can't be attributed to my reader or not creating new folders. I think it's the programs finding peculiar stuff germane to specific DVDs that they can't handle. The whole thing suggests to me that there are inherent factors within the DVD's manufacture and/or encoding that I'm not informed about that can cause DVD2SVCD to stumble. My idea is to indentify these and their solutions.

Milehigh

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Milehigh
I'm not so sure it's that simple. I'm using pretty high-quality equipment. And I've had a DVD rip fail on Machine A, then succeed on Machine B,You mean the same DVD media on two different DVD readers? Or you move the DVD reader also from A to B? If you answer yes and no, it might mean a faulty reader. If you answer yes and yes, It might have something to do with a memory problem (this is not unusual with memory intensive tasks like encoding) or a hard disk problem.
The whole thing suggests to me that there are inherent factors within the DVD's manufacture and/or encoding that I'm not informed about that can cause DVD2SVCD to stumble.I also thought at first of new encrypting techniques or copy protection when facing reading problems. I had my reader replaced and problems were gone.

You might want to try Tylo's excellent DVD Decrypter plugin. DVD Decrypter is very stable and I seldom get weird errors when ripping from DVD2SVCD.

Also please post a log when you find these conditions. It may help to track them down.

[Milehigh]

Thanks, r6d2. I hear what you're saying. But how would a bad reader/memory problem/hard drive problem explain my 80%-plus success rate? Wouldn't the failures be constant? Also, I have used DVD Decrypter to successfully rip "problem" DVDs, only to set DVD2SCVD to work on the ripped vob files - and have it fail! As I say ... something weird at every branch of the flowchart.

Anyway, I will include a log file next time. I have the ripped vobs from "Scooby Doo On Zombie Island" which is one of those weird, cheap-looking silver Hanna-Barbera DVDs that always refuse to process successfully. I'll run it again soon through DVD2SVCD and post the log.

BTW - I keep thinking a clue that the problems are not on my end, but inherent in the DVDs, is the fact that I'm beginning to identify "types" of DVDs that will fail. Like these cheesy silver Hanna-Barbera DVDs. They never copy! But I do appreciate your experience that replacing the reader worked for you. Are you saying that a "better" reader would be able to manage these cheesy DVDs? What brand/model reader ended up working so well for you?

Thanks,

Milehigh

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Milehigh
But how would a bad reader/memory problem/hard drive problem explain my 80%-plus success rate? Wouldn't the failures be constant? Sometimes. Most of the time hardware errors are random and hard to reproduce. That's what typically differentiates them from software errors.
Are you saying that a "better" reader would be able to manage these cheesy DVDs? What brand/model reader ended up working so well for you?I have two. One LG (R) and one Lite-ON (RW). The latter works faster and with less errors. The LG was the one I had replaced 6 months after first bought.

Of course some DVDs suck. But to get out of doubt you might try DVD Shrink or DVD-RB to see if a "one click" program can deal with them. That may isolate a possible cause.

[Milehigh]

Hi,

Okay, here's a typical failure log. From a crappy Hanna-Barbera silver DVD. New folder used.

The first sign of trouble is the error message: Cannot create file C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\DVD2AVI_Project_file.d2v

This error message, when it appears, always appears immediately after entering the frame ranges.

I click Okay on that error message, DVD2SVCD continues until I get the next error message: Frame rate 11988/625 is not supported. Supported frame rate are 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94 and 60"

DVD2SVCD then stops.

At this point in the flowchart I usually start over choosing TMPGEnc as the converter. Which sometimes works.

I can do this and show you that log as well if you like. Or I'm wondering if you'll discover the problem on this log.

Thanks,

Milehigh

Here's the log:

WNASPI32.DLL 4.6.0.1021
--------------------------------------------------------
- 8/22/2004 8:27:02 AM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.1.3 build 2
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 8/22/2004 8:27:06 AM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[C:\Program

Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[C:\Program

Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\VTS_01_1.vob,C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\VTS_01_2.vob,C:\Program

Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\VTS_01_3.vob,C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\VTS_01_4.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Hybrid Film activated. IVTC will be applied and will slow down the entire process!
Framerate: 29970
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 8/22/2004 8:30:40 AM
- Free on drive C: 5344.99 mb
- Frameselection
--------------------------------------------------------
EFCreateError Cannot create file C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\DVD2AVI_Project_file.d2v
Frameselection 1: 0 - 60244
Frameselection 2: 60245 - 110266

--------------------------------------------------------
- 8/22/2004 8:32:19 AM
- Free on drive C: 5344.98 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: -82 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 8/22/2004 8:38:06 AM
- Free on drive C: 5239.71 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Encoding Audio. Filename: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\Program

Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output

"C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.mp2" -logfile

"C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -s surround -g max

) -ota( -d -82 ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 2512.67934601268 )
Audio conversion of C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.


Encoding Audio. Filename: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\Program

Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output

"C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Encoded_audio_1_FS2.mp2" -logfile

"C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Encoded_audio_1_FS2.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -s surround -g max

) -ota( -d -82 ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s ) -split( -start 2512.72105438772 -end

4599.01568234902 )
Audio conversion of C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\zomb\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 8/22/2004 8:50:40 AM
- Free on drive C: 5133.15 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: C:\1 - JESSE\DVD2SVCD Kit\Labelling Documents\SVCD-title-image-scooby-zombie.bmp
Converting: C:\1 - JESSE\DVD2SVCD Kit\Labelling Documents\SVCD-change-image-scooby-zombie.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 8/22/2004 8:50:51 AM
- Free on drive C: 5131.39 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 770491988
AudioSectors: 125496
VideoPAPO: 11933388
ScanOffsetBytes: 2
SeqAligningBytes: 153
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 300.00
PureMPEGStream: 758432945.07
Seconds: 5.07
CalcMPEGStream: 758432945.07
Frames: 2
CDSize: 740.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 735.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 2
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 2530
Avg. Bitrate: 2230
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
Import("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\zomb\RESAMP~1.AVS")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1\Mpeg2dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1\INVERS~1\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\zomb\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
Telecide()
Decimate(5)
BicubicResize(480,480,0.0,0.6)
ResampleAudio(44100)
----AVS End----

At this point, the frame rate error message appeared.

[ralphthedog]

Seems something is a little off in the frame selection area, do you have these problems when you don't use it?

[Milehigh]

I've never not used Frame Selection, as I prefer to pick a sensible transition point, e.g., a fade to black at the end of a significant scene or plot arc, as the place to have to switch SVCDs during playback.

By not using Frame Selection, couldn't you conceivably get the first SVCD disk ending in the middle of a line of dialogue? Or does DVD2SVCD automatically pick the end of a scene as the break point?

I think I may try my work-around solution of running DVD2SVCD twice - once for the range which comprises the first half of the DVD, and once for the range that comprises the second half - before running it with TMPGEnc as the converter. Although this has in the past resulted in audio synch problems with the second SVCD disk. But I want any interested party to see the logs for clues.

[Milehigh]

Yeah, well, tried doing just range 1 and got the same error messages and faiure.

[ralphthedog]

Yep, DVD2SVCD could cut right in the middle of a sentence or something, but it does have an adjustable overlap setting (on the BBmpeg tab) that helps you not miss anything. You could also try doing it in two halves but by chapters, you shouldn't chop a scene or anything in half then. On the conversion tab where the film length is displayed, (if you have ripping enabled) you can choose the chapters you want on the first disc, convert that, then do the same for the chapters you want on the second disc.

I seem to remember some issues with frame selection and hybrid film (or was it something to do with AVI?!), if you give the search button a go you might get lucky.......

[r6d2]

For some strange reason (I already reported the situation to DVD2SVCD some weeks ago), when you select "Auto" as field operation on the DVD2AVI tab, and the movie is detected to be telecined by DVD2SVCD, Frame Selection does not work. Same thing happens if you select IVTC as field operation.

I guess there is no simple fix for this, otherwise DVD2SVCD would have fixed it already. So what you may want to do, as suggested by ralphthedog, is to overlap the images. I always use 10 seconds overlap. It works great and is fully automatic.

Also, remember that by manual cutting you always lose some seconds, because of player rotational latencies or other weird reasons. So "Perfect" manual cuts don't really exist either.

[Milehigh]

Originally posted by ralphthedog
You could also try doing it in two halves but by chapters, you shouldn't chop a scene or anything in half then.

These are great ideas which I'll try. BTW - there is no way to choose chapters when using not the DVD, but the ripped vob files, correct? The chapter menu only appears when DVD ripping is selected? So if the original DVD is ruined and all you have are the ripped vobs, there's no choosing chapters?

[ralphthedog]

You can still choose chapters with the DVD already ripped to the HDD.

You just have to enable ripping(on the DVD rip tab) and DVD2SVCD will rip the chapters you choose(like from your DVD) when you load up the .ifo in the conversion tab.

[Milehigh]

No, when I try it, I get the message "The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process". This message goes away if I deactivate DID ripping ... but so does the option to choose chapters.

[ralphthedog]

I can't explain that.....With a DVD already on the HDD I can choose chapters this way and "rip and convert" no problems?

Did you use DVD2SVCD's internal routines to rip the DVD, other rippers can sometimes cause weird things to happen?

[r6d2]

This works only when you ripped the ISO. If you have just the VOBs (IFO mode) chapter selection is not allowed.

I guess you'll have to rip it again. But remember, perfect cuts don't exist. You are putting too much effort into it istead of using a good overall solution: plain overlap.

[ralphthedog]

Works here with just the .ifo and vob's ripped to HDD using DVD2SVCD's internal routines?

I can load up the .ifo in DVD2SVCD, choose the first chapter only and "rip and convert" it (just tried it to make sure:) ).

[Milehigh]

>>Works here with just the .ifo and vob's ripped to HDD using DVD2SVCD's internal routines? I can load up the .ifo in DVD2SVCD, choose the first chapter only and "rip and convert" it (just tried it to make sure ).<<

Weird. I always use internal routines, but I don't get the chapter pull-down menu when loading the IFO.

So, ralphthedog, you can do something r6d2 can't ... since he says: >>This works only when you ripped the ISO. If you have just the VOBs (IFO mode) chapter selection is not allowed.<< just like me.

I did just use the ripping-in-halves-by-chapters-from-the-DVD technique with another problem DVD and it worked wonderfully, so thanks - I now have an all-purpose work-around.

Uhm, r6d2, sorry about my ignorance, but what does "ripping the ISO" mean, and how do I do it in order to process with chapter selection from the ripped files and not the DVD?

[ralphthedog]

I think r6d2 means an .iso disc image.

You can use DVDdecrypter to create an .iso image of your whole DVD, then use Daemon tools to mount it on a virtual drive and use DVD2SVCD to rip whatever bits by chapter you may want at your leisure.

I can do many things r6d2 can't.......:p

[Milehigh]

Just a quick checkback to say that - while the re-rip by chapters failed earlier, on a whim I tried it again on two other DVDs already ripped to the harddrive, and with both of them ... it worked! With IFO files ... not iso. Checked DVD rip AND got chapter selection drop-down. Don't know why it didn't work the first time ... and I got that "process cannot access file" message ... just more evidence that DVD2SVCD really does treat each DVD differently (because they really are all different)? So thanks again for an elegantly simple solution to ripping/conversion problems with frame selection ... rip twice, first half and second half, by chapters.

The only downside - I can't get a 10 second overlap between SVCDs when choosing ripping by chapters. Guess that's only with frame selection?