[UPDATED] - DVD Rebuilder output larger than original DVD

[bugmenot]

[UPDATE] - see my reply below...


Hi all - I'm using DVDRB 0.56Beta, the recommended avi synth version, the MPEG2Dec3dg.dll file in the proper place, CCE SP 2.67 (Basic was crashing on me near the end every time for some reason).

I followed the guides on doom9 and afterdawn and made all the recommended setting changes. The only change from default I made was moving from 2 pass CCE to 3 pass CCE.

My input DVD is 7.49GB. The final output that DVDRB/CCE puts out in the VIDEO_TS folder is 8.28GB. I have absolutely no idea what is going wrong but I have tried multiple times and it does the same thing each time. I don't get any errors or have any issues throughout the entire process.

I added the line "CCETargetSectors=2236400" to the options in the .ini as I thought that may help based on some forum reading I did and there was no change.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!


(I did search through the entire DVD Rebuilder forum here and some had issues with undersized output, but nobody with oversize issues)

[jdobbs]

Oversizing is possible if the TargetSectors variable has been changed. But other than that... Are you positive you are looking at the correct folder? Is there anything else, possibly, in that folder other than what DVD-RB creates?

[erdoke]

I experienced something similar that was mentioned in the fist thread, however the size was only 400 MB over. I figured out that maybe most of the main Menu (same VTS as the main movie) was left out of calculation. Or it could be that the left-out DTS stream caused this?

Actually I did some pre-authoring with DVDReMake as well.
Prgs used: RB 0.56 (with CCE SP 2.67.00.23, ECLCCE 1.81, AviSynth 2.5.4), DVDReMake 2.2.0.
Movie: Black Hawk Down, Region 2, PAL.

EDIT: Uh, sorry. If somebody would move it to the RB oversizing topic..
Next time I will be more careful.:(

[jptheripper]

my guess is he is looking at the combined size of the output folder (which contains the working files) and not just the video_ts folder

as the size is about twice what he should be expecting

[erdoke]

Originally posted by jptheripper
my guess is he is looking at the combined size of the output folder (which contains the working files) and not just the video_ts folder

as the size is about twice what he should be expecting

Yes, for the first post it can be a solution, the D2VAVS (or stg like that :D) folder plus the output folder can be that size.
But how about my issue? I for sure told the new DVD size what RB created.

(Thanks for the somebody for moving my thread to the right place!)

[bugmenot]

Thanks for the replies all!

Here is some more information...


The movie is Haggard (Bam Margera CKY-like movie) - Region 1.

Original DVD size (ISO ripped via DVD Decryptor): 7.49GB
D2VAVS Folder size after running through DVDRB: 7.42
VIDEO_TS folder size after DVDRB: 8.28GB

The .iso is mounted with Daemon Tools (I heard that may have caused issues earlier on but it sounds like this has been fixed). I have my output directory set to F:\CCE - once all transcoding is done, I have 3 folders within that directory: AUDIO_TS (empty), D2VAVS (size above), and VIDEO_TS (size above). It is my impression that the content of that VIDEO_TS folder is the re-encoded data that is ready to be burned (correct?).

Here's a screenshot of my VIDEO_TS folder after rebuild: http://www.a530.com/videots.jpg


The CCE option is set to CCE SP (v2.66+)

.ini config - it isn't saving correctly for some reason as the config I paste into this text box is correct but upon saving it is different, specifically the languages line:

[Options]
OneClick=1
ReduceOpt=1
RemoveDTS=1
BackColor=-2147483633
CCE=1
Completed=3
AudioDub=0
idct7Opt=1
LoadPlugin=1
CCETargetSectors=2236400
[CCEOptions]
VBR_bias=25
Quality_prec=16
eclPasses=3
[Paths]
CCEBasic=C:\Program Files\Custom Technology\Cinema Craft Encoder Basic\cct2.exe
Source=J:\VIDEO_TS\
Working=F:\CCE\
CCENEW=C:\Program Files\Cinema Craft Encoder SP v2.67.00.27\cctsp.exe
MPEG2DEC=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll
[Setup]
sLanguage11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111


PC specs:

Athlon XP 2600+ (not overclocked)
1GB PC3200
9700 Pro
Drive with content on it is 120GB WD SE (7200RPM/8MB cache)
Win2k Pro SP4


I just manually removed the CCEBasic line from my .ini file since I don't have it installed anymore and don't use it just in case that was an issue. I restarted DVDRB and am trying another time.

I am going to try another DVD tonight if this doesn't work to see if anything differently happens as maybe I just got a freak DVD.

[erdoke]

Originally posted by bugmenot
Original DVD size (ISO ripped via DVD Decryptor): 7.49GB
D2VAVS Folder size after running through DVDRB: 7.42
VIDEO_TS folder size after DVDRB: 8.28GB

The .iso is mounted with Daemon Tools (I heard that may have caused issues earlier on but it sounds like this has been fixed). I have my output directory set to F:\CCE - once all transcoding is done, I have 3 folders within that directory: AUDIO_TS (empty), D2VAVS (size above), and VIDEO_TS (size above). It is my impression that the content of that VIDEO_TS folder is the re-encoded data that is ready to be burned (correct?).


I think that the content of the D2VAVS folder would have been more useful.;)

I see that you use CCE v. 2.67.00.27. It is the latest version, and has known issues with RB, because of the modified .ecl handling (ecl is the project file of CCE SP). Two tips:
1) Use ECLCCE as a bridge between this CCE SP version and RB 0.56.
2) Go back one version with CCE. 2.67.00.23 is known as perfect with RB 0.56.

[bugmenot]

Today I dug up CCE SP v2.50 and installed that. I configured EclCCE, changed the DVDRB settings, and tried again. This time it worked!!

The previous poster who mentioned that it may be an issue with the newest CCE SP version sounds correct as I didn't make any other setting changes.

I'm pleased with the results - would there be any quality difference between v2.50 and 2.67.x ??


Thanks for the help all!

[erdoke]

Originally posted by bugmenot
Today I dug up CCE SP v2.50 and installed that. I configured EclCCE, changed the DVDRB settings, and tried again. This time it worked!!

The previous poster who mentioned that it may be an issue with the newest CCE SP version sounds correct as I didn't make any other setting changes.

I'm pleased with the results - would there be any quality difference between v2.50 and 2.67.x ??


Thanks for the help all!

I'm happy with your new results. ;o)

No idea about the quality difference between the two versions mentioned, never tried 2.50. If you think that there may be quality loss on 2.50, just upgrade to 2.67.00.23, issues are reported only with using version 2.67.00.27 (the latest). I guess the next release of RB will solve every issue of this kind, because it will know the changes mede to the latest version of CCE SP as well.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by erdoke
I think that the content of the D2VAVS folder would have been more useful.;)

I see that you use CCE v. 2.67.00.27. It is the latest version, and has known issues with RB, because of the modified .ecl handling (ecl is the project file of CCE SP). Two tips:
1) Use ECLCCE as a bridge between this CCE SP version and RB 0.56.
2) Go back one version with CCE. 2.67.00.23 is known as perfect with RB 0.56. That is definitely a problem. From what I can tell (but it doesn't seem to be consistent) sometimes your encodes end up being CBR... that would result in large output on most DVDs.

Too all:

DO NOT use CCE v. 2.67.00.27 with DVD-RB. It has additional issues, also, that appear to be related to ECLCCE.

[jdobbs]

I'm pleased with the results - would there be any quality difference between v2.50 and 2.67.x ?? My experience has been that there seems to be no quality difference. v2.50 is definitely faster (although it is only slightly).

[erdoke]

Originally posted by jdobbs
That is definitely a problem. From what I can tell (but it doesn't seem to be consistent) sometimes your encodes end up being CBR... that would result in large output on most DVDs.

Too all:

DO NOT use CCE v. 2.67.00.27 with DVD-RB. It has additional issues, also, that appear to be related to ECLCCE.

Hi jdobbs,

Two questions I have:

1) Did you hear anybody succesfully using this version of CCE SP?

2) Do you have any ideas on my oversizing issue above?
erdoke: 12th August 2004 14:47

Thanks in advance.

[jdobbs]

No. The only person I know who used it successfully also had to answer a "Save ECL" prompt every six minutes during the encode phase.

The oversizing is probably due to CBR encoding. The DVD-RB ECL sets the encoding bitrate to 6000Kbs for CBR encoding as the default (it is never normally used except for still picture encoding -- but always exists in the ECL, that's just the way CCE does it). If the ECL format has changed and somehow the version misunderstands the settings and thinks it is supposed to use CBR, your entire stream will be encoded at a fixed rate of 6,000Kbs, which means two hours of video alone (not counting audio, extras, etc.) would take over 5GB of storage.

Until we figure out everything that has changed with version 2.67.00.27 -- anyone who uses it is on his/her own...

[erdoke]

Originally posted by jdobbs
No. The only person I know who used it successfully also had to answer a "Save ECL" prompt every six minutes during the encode phase.

Sounds great if you want to stick to your PC... :D

The oversizing is probably due to CBR encoding. The DVD-RB ECL sets the encoding bitrate to 6000Kbs for CBR encoding as the default (it is never normally used except for still picture encoding -- but always exists in the ECL, that's just the way CCE does it). If the ECL format has changed and somehow the version misunderstands the settings and thinks it is supposed to use CBR, your entire stream will be encoded at a fixed rate of 6,000Kbs, which means two hours of video alone (not counting audio, extras, etc.) would take over 5GB of storage.

Until we figure out everything that has changed with version 2.67.00.27 -- anyone who uses it is on his/her own...

You probably misunderstood me. My CCE version is 2.67.00.23 and I did not get a DVDR size above 5 GB, exactly it was 4880 MB. First I removed the DTS sound with some prog (Shrink or IFOEdit) then made some adjustments in DVDReMake before entering my files into RB.
It went with 5 passes of CCE (6 for RB). (I still use DVDRM 1.4.6, because in 2.2 Pro Demo I do not see where to set the command parameters)
I did not go trough all steps again, instead removed the scene selection menu which was 192 MB in VMG and 350 MB in the VTS of the main movie (I simply do not unterstand why it is useful to put two slightly different scene selection menus in a DVD. Maybe there was difference in animation but I could not see this on TV). The final result thus ended up around 4300 MB.
What I do not really understand is that RB went wrong because of the stripped DTS (which still could be seen as a 0 MB stream) or the problem was with the complex menu?

EDIT: Well I just found how to switch to advanced mode in RM 2.2 Pro Demo. Looks like it now.;)

[Da_Teach]

Well my output wasnt larger then the original, but it wasnt the size that DVD-RB calculated it should be...

After fiddling around a bit, I noticed that the ECL that DVD-RB generates is set to 'OPV: Q 20 (0 - 7000 kbps)' , shouldnt that be 'VBR1: <bitrate> (0- 7000 kbps' ?

When taking a VOB that was 900Mb to start with, I ended up with a M2V file that was 880Mb (with OPV), switching it to VBR1 seemed to get a better size (400Mb)...

Could that be it ?

I'm gonna recode my DVD and editing the ecl so it compresses using 'video_type=8' (VBR1) instead of 'video_type=4' (OPV), see if I end up with a correct size DVD :)

[Fullasoul]

ooh...please let us know how this works out for you....I finally made my first attempt at using DVD-RB last night and had a nightmare of a time. First my older (2.50) version of CCE would not work...Phase II wouldn't start, and would only give me a "could not open ECL" error, even with that ECLCCE (or whatever it was called) utility installed. Gave up on that and installed the latest CCE...well you know how that turned out, I wound up with a DVD that was 5.60GB :(
I'm quite familiar with CCE, so all my pain from last night aside, what you're saying makes good sense....but I'm gonna wait and see what kinda results you get before setting myself up for more frustration :)

Fullasoul

[Da_Teach]

Worked like a charm, the end result was a 4.22Gb (give or take a few Mb's)... With the original (OPV) ecl file, it was ~5.8Gb...

Also, when loading the ecl file with an old elccce, the files that where marked as OPV in the new cce, where marked as VBR in the old eclcce...

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Da_Teach
I'm gonna recode my DVD and editing the ecl so it compresses using 'video_type=8' (VBR1) instead of 'video_type=4' (OPV), see if I end up with a correct size DVD :) What version of CCE are you using? If setting it to 8 means VBR then you are probably using CCE Basic... since the .ECL files said 4, I would guess that you had the CCE options set to SP but were using Basic. Of course there is always the chance that it has changed in the most recent version.

[Da_Teach]

Ok just checked, I'm using CCE SP v2.67.00.27 (released by Paradox)... And DVD-RB was set to CCE SP v2.66+...

[jdobbs]

Yep. I was pretty sure the values for video_type had changed for 2.67.00.29 but wasn't sure when it started. It look like it may apply to 2.67.00.27 as well. I've implemented some new code into version 0.57 of DVD-RB that looks at CCE version numbers so I can adjust this as they keep changing... It would help if you did an ECL save of CBR, OPV, and multipass VBR and recorded the "video_type" value for each. All I have is the demo release of the newer SP versions.

[Da_Teach]

one-pass CBR (CBR): video_type=1
multipass CBR (MP CBR): video_type=2
One-pass VBR (OPV): video_type=4
1st pass of Multipass VBR (VBR1): video_type=8
multipass VBR (VBR): video_type=16

Hope that helps...

[jdobbs]

Definitely. Thanks.

[mrslacker]

Interesting. I've been using 2.67.00.27 with no problems. It does multipass VBR as specified in the advanced settings. Creates vaf, then does two passes... more when I specify (rarely). I did have to use EclCCE 1.81 to get this to work. I take a look at some of my ecl files when I get a chance.

[mrslacker]

Oh, you are using the retail version... I've been playing with the trial. It uses video_type 1, 256, 2, 512, 4 for CBR, MP CBR, OPV, VBR1, and VBR, respectively. I guess EclCCE handles it, I have yet to read the whole EclCCE thread.

[Da_Teach]

The version I've been using has indeed been the CCE SP 'retail'...

[tolchuk]

Da_Teach,

Are you using 3 click-mode, or did you figure out a way to reconfigure using 1 click? If using 1 click I'd like to know how (I've got the same version of cce as you). TIA

[jdobbs]

@Da_Teach

You might try using ECLCCE and see if it fixes your problem.

[Axlemar]

When I use 2.67.00.27 sp with the newest eclcce, every time it goes to reencode; a setting menu for the current encode pops up. If I try to encode without eclcce then I get only one pass.

BTW: Be careful with Da_Teach's results cause he stated he is using pirated software (Released by Paradox).

[jdobbs]

That's the frustrating part for me. It seems to be be one of two errors (the popup or the incorrect CBR encoding) for those who are having problems, while ECLCCE works fine for others. I can't seem to get a feel for why it is acting differently for different people.

[erdoke]

Originally posted by Axlemar

BTW: Be careful with Da_Teach's results cause he stated he is using pirated software (Released by Paradox).

I searched the net and found the NFO file of that Paradox release. If I understood correctly, it states that only the copy protection was removed from the Retail version of CCE, so it should be handled as a real retail version.
Maybe this time the Trial and the Retail differs in more details than in previous versions. We should find somebody who has a full original/official Retail copy and ask him to run a couple of tests with current versions of RB and ECLCCE.

[jdobbs]

All,

The new codes will be supported starting with version 0.58. If you are using the latest Trial version of CCE, use ECLCCE and it should be fine. If you are using the shipping (retail) version, it pauses and and pops up dialogs, etc... that is what will be fixed.

Thanks,
jdobbs

[jdobbs]

This should be fixed. Download v0.58.

[tolchuk]

Originally posted by jdobbs
This should be fixed. Download v0.58.

Works great. Thanks a bazillion jdobbs!

[queens49]

Hi,
I'm using CCE SP 2.67.00.27 w/ DVD-RB 0.58 and the output file is still bigger than the original DVD. I've set everything to what it supposed to be in DVD-RB, CCE SP and I'm not using ECLCCE. How are other people getting this to work properly?

[jdobbs]

One anomaly I noticed (my fault, I'll fix it in the next version). The version number of CCE is only read at program start. So if you opened DVD-RB and changed the CCE SP path to point to the new version and then just ran an encode -- it will not have the correct version registered in RB... and could still use the older ECL formats -- which could create the oversized output.

After you make the change you have to exit DVD-RB and restart it. It will be correct everytime you use it then, unless you change the path again.

[queens49]

Thanks for the reply. That's exactly what I did, I opened it once, set everything up and then tested it.

[jdobbs]

Don't feel lonely. I did the same thing and wasted a 2 hour encode... so I found it from experience. I was frantic because I thought it didn't work.

[gorangel]

Jdobbs, I found this thread about the versions of CCE supported by EclCCE v 1.81
maybe this help
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46664&perpage=20&highlight=eclcce&pagenumber=14