PDA

View Full Version : Terminator 2 WMV, can it be played?


CharlyAR
31st July 2004, 07:07
I just got the two DVD set copy of T2, but I got stuck finding that I won't be able to play the ultra high definition WMV files just because I'm outside of the US.

Is there any ay that I can watch `em????

neo75903
31st July 2004, 12:55
WMV on a DVD?
Thats new to me, are there more of those discs on the market?

lexor
31st July 2004, 14:16
@CharlyAR well they are supposed to only work on computer, so what does WMP say when you put 2nd DVD with WMV in?

@neo75903 there just some more DVD's MS put out to show case thier tech in hope to convince DVD Forum (and others) to pick it's tech for upcoming HD-DVD format. Find more here (http://www.wmvhd.com/)

Doobie
31st July 2004, 16:10
Originally posted by neo75903
WMV on a DVD?
Thats new to me, are there more of those discs on the market?

See: Terminator 2 WMV (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/T2DVD.aspx)

I don't know anything about getting it to work outside the US, but maybe going through a proxy in the US? Also, I'm not aware of any backup solution, yet.

bond
31st July 2004, 16:42
the DVD standard doesnt allow the usage of wmv, therefore these things m$ tries to sell are not DVDs
they also arent HD-DVDs, as HD-DVDs will not use wma9, the .wmv container nor wmv drm

to sum it: this has nothing to do with dvd, from my point of view its only a marketing move of m$ with the goal to make wmv more popular

wmansir
31st July 2004, 20:26
Bond is 100% right. It's really just DVD-ROM content and a way for MS to advance the codec as the next compression standard.

I've heard that you can get it to play by using a proxy server, but it's a bit of a pain. If you do a search you'll find it was discussed in the forum.

lexor
31st July 2004, 21:26
bond is right, but totally off topic since nobody implied things he argued agains, he seemed to have argued with himself :rolleyes:

oh but I must put some solt on the wound though:

V Inc and WM9 are here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347428)

Add another HD-WMV9 DVD player displayed at the CES show (http://www.internationalces.com/attendees/directory/eims_exhibitor_details.asp?exhibid=7288)

it seems we getting stand alone support for VC-9 and they all seem to refer to it as HD-DVD (the manufacturers that is) and since HD-DVD must be a registered trademark of DVD Forum, they (companies) wouldn't use it lightly, since misrepresentation/misuse of a trademark is something that can get them sued.

neo75903
1st August 2004, 00:58
Bond's comments where very informative. We in Europe are not aware from such discs. To be honest, i prefer not to see those discs showing up on the market.
Anyway, i also hope our ameican friends can find a solution to backup those discs when they do show up on our shelves :)

Soulhunter
1st August 2004, 19:38
Originally posted by lexor
...it seems we getting stand alone support for VC-9 and they all seem to refer to it as HD-DVD (the manufacturers that is) and since HD-DVD must be a registered trademark of DVD Forum, they (companies) wouldn't use it lightly, since misrepresentation/misuse of a trademark is something that can get them sued.
Sometimes a simple misinterpretation...

That are HD-WMV9 DVD's and not WMV9 HD-DVD's !!!


HD-WMV9 is a self invented "standard" by M$, while HD-DVD is a real standard of the DVD Forum... :rolleyes:

So, HD-WMV9 content on a DVD is not a HD-DVD !!!


Bye

neo75903
1st August 2004, 22:44
i know that wmv9 have been taken into the new hd-DVD standard, but does this mean all the discs will be encoded in this format, or is MPEG4 (h264) also available? And if i am not interested in wmv9, do i also have to pay for it?

Wilbert
1st August 2004, 23:17
That's The 64,000 Dollar Question. There will probably be only one format on the disc.

Maybe some of you (bond ?) can drop the DVD forum a mail about this

press@dvdforum.org

to ask them how they see this (ie. dvd studios can choose which one out of the three they use?). I'm going on holidays, so I don't have time to do this.

Neo Neko
1st August 2004, 23:51
Originally posted by lexor
bond is right, but totally off topic since nobody implied things he argued agains, he seemed to have argued with himself :rolleyes:

oh but I must put some solt on the wound though:

V Inc and WM9 are here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347428)

Add another HD-WMV9 DVD player displayed at the CES show (http://www.internationalces.com/attendees/directory/eims_exhibitor_details.asp?exhibid=7288)

it seems we getting stand alone support for VC-9 and they all seem to refer to it as HD-DVD (the manufacturers that is) and since HD-DVD must be a registered trademark of DVD Forum, they (companies) wouldn't use it lightly, since misrepresentation/misuse of a trademark is something that can get them sued.

On the whole that was rather disrespectfull and quite uncalled for. Frankly if you must know bond was posting in reply to neo75903. In fact one of the exact posts you replied to. I am at this point not quite sure if you have slective understanding or just lossy memory.

Also because standalones play something or call themselves something does not make it so. Standalones can play MPEG4 in AVI. So does that make it a standard? No. To further illustrate my point there are standalones claming to be Xvid certified or compliant. Not that there is such thing as an Xvid certification and nothing has been set up as far as compliant requirements. Some have even gone so far as to draft their own Xvid logo. That still does not make it official. To illustrate further still DXN is taking several manufacturers to task for claiming their players Divx certified or compliant without submitting them for any testing or certification what so ever. So don't excuse off hand that manufacturers would not take such things lightly. They have and will.

lexor
2nd August 2004, 01:22
Originally posted by Neo Neko
On the whole that was rather disrespectfull and quite uncalled for. Frankly if you must know bond was posting in reply to neo75903.

neo75903 said:

WMV on a DVD?
Thats new to me, are there more of those discs on the market?


how does this provoke bond into anything?

[QUOTE]
In fact one of the exact posts you replied to. I am at this point not quite sure if you have slective understanding or just lossy memory.
[/QUTOE]

There is a fine line between the 2 and I'd like to think I walk it every day of my life. :D


For the rest I was merely teasing with misrepresentation of facts (by stand alone makers) and in no way did I disrespect bond (nothing in my post is in any way aimed at that purpose), most of the things I've learned about encoding past Doom9's guide I learned from him. Your own quote of me shows I agreed with him completeley.

neo75903
2nd August 2004, 03:20
i understand your point of view.
But as far i know is WMV now part of the next DVD standard along with MPEG4 i guess.
Does this mean that movie companies now can choose themself which format to go for?

Neo Neko
2nd August 2004, 06:51
Originally posted by lexor
how does this provoke bond into anything?

To me he came off wanting to make it clear that WMV is not currently part of any finalized DVD specs. And should not be implied as such. Could it have been done in a bit more subdued way. Perhaps. But that is not in everyones nature.

Originally posted by lexor
For the rest I was merely teasing with misrepresentation of facts (by stand alone makers) and in no way did I disrespect bond (nothing in my post is in any way aimed at that purpose), most of the things I've learned about encoding past Doom9's guide I learned from him. Your own quote of me shows I agreed with him completeley.

Hmmmm. Well that is not the impression I got. It looked a bit more like you could be goading him and others. Debate is fine. But it seemed to be en route away from that.

mayhem2408
4th August 2004, 02:00
Originally posted by bond
the DVD standard doesnt allow the usage of wmv, therefore these things m$ tries to sell are not DVDs
they also arent HD-DVDs, as HD-DVDs will not use wma9, the .wmv container nor wmv drm

to sum it: this has nothing to do with dvd, from my point of view its only a marketing move of m$ with the goal to make wmv more popular

DVD stands for Digital Versatile Disc and I have games on DVD. DVD does not have to be a movie. Besides, I can put the T2 Extreme DVD Disc 2 into a DVD player and it will play, but not the HiDef WMV files. Many DVD movies and PC contant on them. That doesn't make them any less of a DVD. Besides, I read that the MS MWV9 files will be used in HD-DVD. http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/shownews.php?newsid=046

Neo Neko
4th August 2004, 02:44
Originally posted by mayhem2408
DVD stands for Digital Versatile Disc and I have games on DVD.

But what you ignore is that in general when the word DVD is mentioned here it is synonimous with "DVD Movie". Technically you are correct. The best kind of correct. But that does not make you correct. :p

Originally posted by mayhem2408
Besides, I read that the MS MWV9 files will be used in HD-DVD. http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/shownews.php?newsid=046

Well at that point in time IIRC the spec was not actually finalised. It was still a race with three runners. I remember because it was a hot topic for discussion. But recent events [stuff that actually happened after this thread started IIRC] in HD seem to have created the worst of all outcomes. Rather than actually deciding on a single format/codec they have decided for no less than three video codecs licensed by 2 different boddies. Not just WMV9 but also MPEG2 and MPEG4 part 10. What this means is that for any company to produce a fully functional HD-DVD player they are going to have to license all three codecs. Which means more expense passed to us the end user. But even if this scenario is truly the case there is still a saving grace. MPEG2 will be on there for backwards compatability no matter what. But since MPEG2 and MPEG4 are basically licensed by the same groups it would be possible for them to do combined licensing for less of the two effectively shutting WMV9 more or less out of the picture. Which IMHO would be a good thing.

mayhem2408
4th August 2004, 02:50
Originally posted by Neo Neko
---- effectively shutting WMV9 more or less out of the picture. Which IMHO would be a good thing.

I know every one wants to have a bash a Microsoft. But have to seen the quality on the T2 Extreme in HD. And it all fits on a standard DVD-9, only taking up 6.5 Gig. I have no problems with the WMV9 format and look forward to seeing more content using it.

MvB
4th August 2004, 05:54
Hi, i have the dvd and i must say, the quality is not hdtv. Just looks more like an upscaled DVD image for me. I have some 'real' hdtv clips and these look MUCH better.
But i have to admit the 1080p samples from microsoft on their site are much better quality than this wmv-dvd and can compare to hdtv.

mayhem2408
4th August 2004, 06:28
Originally posted by MvB
Hi, i have the dvd and i must say, the quality is not hdtv. Just looks more like an upscaled DVD image for me. I have some 'real' hdtv clips and these look MUCH better.
But i have to admit the 1080p samples from microsoft on their site are much better quality than this wmv-dvd and can compare to hdtv. Well the movie is 13 years old, but I can with out a doubt see the difference between the DVD and the HD WMV.

mayhem2408
4th August 2004, 08:48
If anyone is interested in seeing the difference. I have uploaded some shots on my temp website. There are 5 samples. The top is DVD and the bottom is WMV9-HD. Click on the small image to download to large JPG image. http://members.optusnet.com.au/jrevill

mayhem2408
4th August 2004, 08:49
If anyone is interested in seeing the difference. I have uploaded some shots on my temp website. There are 5 samples. The top is DVD and the bottom is WMV9-HD. Click on the small image to download to large JPG image. http://members.optusnet.com.au/jrevill

SeeMoreDigital
12th August 2004, 13:37
Originally posted by neo75903
.... We in Europe are not aware from such discs....

You can get Tomb Raider2 (in a box set with Tomb Raider 1) in HD WMV9 format from Germany.

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001GGXTA/qid=1092314090/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_11_3/302-4073902-5384037


Cheers

Mug Funky
12th August 2004, 14:11
@ mayhem2408:

the codec do not maketh the quality. i'm sure an xvid of the source used for the WMV would have looked better for the same bitrate :)

the images are sharper in the WMV encode compared to the mpeg-2 encode simply because they come from a higher res source, which in itself says nothing about the codec used to compress it. besides that, it's pretty much unanimously agreed on that WMV is more efficient than MPEG-2... but who's to say whether it performs better than h-263, or mpeg-4 (or the plethora of other codecs out there)?

besides which, what's wrong with taking a gratuitous swipe at Microsoft? the conscience vote is an honourable thing in my opinion, and i simply don't like how Microsoft have been the almost unquestioned dicktators of the IT world for so long, and no matter how good their codec is (it's mediocre compared to other modern codecs btw), i don't want to see them do the same thing in the entertainment industry.

(btw, i'm installing 'nix once i've got my data backed up in a week or so... so much for longhorn...)

Trahald
12th August 2004, 14:59
from what ive seen mpeg4's at comparible bitrates and resolutions look (on quick inspection) are on par with wmv of the same bitrate. Im talking about HDTV resolutions and bitrates which are generally so high flaws are hard to see. this isnt per se an endorsement of wmv or even mpeg4 (i'll admit im an xvid fan) Because of that I actually kinda agree with the point that making the hardware makers license wmv9 and mpeg(2/4) is going to drive up prices unnecessarily. having mpeg2 for backwards compatibility and mpeg4 for the future will cover all the bases.

neo75903
17th August 2004, 02:32
totally agree, but M$ has avoid this by having very cheap licenses and knowing M$ strategy, looks like they want to flood the market with there codec and use it as a carrier to sell there Windows Media Servers.

Quality wise, it is not always the best system that will win on the market (Playstation2 / Nintendo64). Luckely for us, this market is moving so fast and the competition is so open we dont have to be afraid M$ controlling this market yet.
I am more afraid in which format the media providers will store there media. Users will have to follow providers prefered format and lock us down with other stuff like DRM.

to mayhem2408:
Nice comparisons, looks like wmv has evolved dramatically. I can sstill see some artifact around shady/gray areas (noticeable around 4e picture, by gun shot), but i dont think i would notice them in a moving picture.