Dish Network to be 100% compliant with new DVB-S2 standard

[slicemaster102]

Well,

I am farley new to this satellite TV stuff but I’ve been reading a lot on this subject and from what I understand Dish Network programs are not 100% DVB-S compliant streams because they use a unsupported modulation mode (8PSK) that is not supported under the DVB-S standard (DVB-S uses QPSK). Anyways the DVB development forum is releasing a new standard called DVB-S2 sometime this summer that will support many new features as well as a wider array of modulation types, including 8psk! Anyways, from what I understand Dish Network is a standard DVB-S stream except for the fact that they use a nonstandard modulation type, but this should all end once DVB-S2 is finalized as DVB-S2 supports 8psk modulation among with three others (QPSK, 16APSK, and 32APSK). This should mean that Dish Network will be 100% DVB-S2 compliant and therefore compatible with the next generation of PCI and USB satellite receiver boards/boxes (AKA those featuring a DVB-S2 compliant chipset). However, this does not mean that the programming will all of a sudden become “free to air”. Dish Network protects their programming by scrambling it with NAGRAVISION, however with the appropriate CAM and smartcard (your Dish Network subscription card) this should be fairly easy to overcome. The only thing that might be standing in Dish Network subscribers’ ways are the fact that their smartcard is “married” to their receiver but that might not even matter with a computer based receiver card/box, and even if it does you could probably get a smartcard married to your computers receiver card/box.

The fact that this might just be the light at the end of the tunnel for so many Dish Network subscribers in search of the ultimate PVR (one that can record programming on many different channels at the same time) or media center PC made me want to share this information with you.

Signed,
Slice

P.S. DVB-S2 is completely backwards compatible with DVB-S
P.P.S. You can record several different channels simultaneously, but all of them must be on the same transponder.
P.P.P.S. Here is a link to the DVB-S2
White Paper ----> http://www.dvb.org/documents/white-papers/wp06.DVB-S2.final.pdf

[[_chéf_]]

Originally posted by slicemaster102
P.P.S. You can record several different channels simultaneously, but all of them must be on the same transponder.


This is currently also no problem if you use a software which supports that, same with analogue stuff.
Only limitation is and was to use the same H or V position.

[slicemaster102]

Originally posted by [_chéf_]
This is currently also no problem if you use a software which supports that, same with analogue stuff.
Only limitation is and was to use the same H or V position.

That is true but it is not a feature available on PVRs that are popular such as TIVO or ReplayTV.

Signed,
Slice

[eb]

using SS2 card with program SkyView by marfi you can record simultaniously from digital tvsat up to:
25 audio streams
4 packages /video+audios+subtitles/+ 1 video package can transmited to the LAN at the same time
http://img37.exs.cx/img37/8840/SkyViewTSwriter.jpg
http://img38.exs.cx/img38/191/SkyViewMultirecorder.jpg

http://img38.exs.cx/img38/7954/SkyViewMultirecorder1.jpg

eb

[slicemaster102]

Originally posted by eb
using SS2 card with program SkyView by marfi you can record simultaniously from digital tvsat up to:
17 audio streams
4 packages /video+audios+subtitles/+ 1 video package can transmited to the LAN at the same time
http://img37.exs.cx/img37/8840/SkyViewTSwriter.jpg
http://img38.exs.cx/img38/191/SkyViewMultirecorder.jpg

http://img38.exs.cx/img38/7954/SkyViewMultirecorder1.jpg

eb

very cool

[moon1234]

Your getting dangerously close to discussions of piracy which violate this boards rules.

In about 1 year Dish network will have fully converted to Nagaravision version 2. The "software" you are referring to is emulating the Nagravision 1 encyption scheme. There is NO legitimate use for this sofware anywhere. There are also NO soft or hard CAMs available for the Nagaravision 2 encryption scheme.

Dish Network does not now nor will they ever allow PC DVB cards to receive their programming. They make money on the receivers and incremental charges that WILL come for PVR/Tivo like services. The entertainment industry also would go bezerk if this were offered in the US. Just look at your screenshots. You are copyingthe transport stream of a transponder and all/some of the available PIDs in that stream. How much do you think the music industry likes you copying the digital broadcast music to your computer?

You ideas are nice, but they will never see the "Legal" light of day. I don;t work for any of the "Big Brother" organazations so you can lay that fear to rest.

[slicemaster102]

I tend to disagree,
The way I see it is if you pay for a given service and you use that service on your own equipment (IE a PCI DVB-S2 Sat tuner card with appropriate CAM and smartcard) it is fair use. It only becomes illegal in my eyes if you are not a subscriber and you software hack the encryption that the content provider places on the content. You are incorrect; Nagravision CAMs are readily available and can be legally purchased. Legal CAMs are useless with out a smart card (the actually device that holds the encryption codes), and that smart card is what you pay for when adding an additional receiver (something like $10 buck a month more for each additional receiver).

Signed,
Slice

P.S. if we go off your theory of illegality then recording movies off of television and music off the radio would be illegal.

P.P.S. Also note: if the content provider sends a stream in the open “FREE TO AIR” then its fair game, whether music or television.

[slicemaster102]

BuMpBuMp

[moon1234]

Originally posted by slicemaster102
I tend to disagree,
The way I see it is if you pay for a given service and you use that service on your own equipment (IE a PCI DVB-S2 Sat tuner card with appropriate CAM and smartcard) it is fair use. It only becomes illegal in my eyes if you are not a subscriber and you software hack the encryption that the content provider places on the content. You are incorrect; Nagravision CAMs are readily available and can be legally purchased. Legal CAMs are useless with out a smart card (the actually device that holds the encryption codes), and that smart card is what you pay for when adding an additional receiver (something like $10 buck a month more for each additional receiver).

Signed,
Slice

P.S. if we go off your theory of illegality then recording movies off of television and music off the radio would be illegal.

P.P.S. Also note: if the content provider sends a stream in the open “FREE TO AIR” then its fair game, whether music or television.

The problem with your assumption is that Dish would never activate your card that is a DVB CAM. They know the serial numbers of every receiver produced for them. Just becuase you have compatible hardware does not mean that they will legally activate a card in it. The card itself will only marry a receiver when it is sent the proper commands.

That was my point with the post. You are talking about capturing Dish datastreams and then viewing the programs. Unless you like to watch NASA and the Dish barker channel you are using some type of software to steal/decrypt the signal.

If they choose not to allow you to use the hardware you already have, that is their right whether you like it or not. Sounds harsh, but that is the law.

FTA/unencrypted stuff is just fine. No problems there. That is of course unless you start putting it up on the net. Then you run into legal problems and also risk having the feed encrypted. Thus ruining it for everyone else.

I wish we could sub to services this way in the US. They can in Europe. If you live on the east coast and have a large C-Band dish then maybe you can sub to Skydigital.

[slicemaster102]

Originally posted by moon1234
The problem with your assumption is that Dish would never activate your card that is a DVB CAM. They know the serial numbers of every receiver produced for them. Just becuase you have compatible hardware does not mean that they will legally activate a card in it. The card itself will only marry a receiver when it is sent the proper commands.

That was my point with the post. You are talking about capturing Dish datastreams and then viewing the programs. Unless you like to watch NASA and the Dish barker channel you are using some type of software to steal/decrypt the signal.

If they choose not to allow you to use the hardware you already have, that is their right whether you like it or not. Sounds harsh, but that is the law.

FTA/unencrypted stuff is just fine. No problems there. That is of course unless you start putting it up on the net. Then you run into legal problems and also risk having the feed encrypted. Thus ruining it for everyone else.

I wish we could sub to services this way in the US. They can in Europe. If you live on the east coast and have a large C-Band dish then maybe you can sub to Skydigital.

You are correct. Dish Network will not activate the smart card in hacked or “not approved” hardware. However, my theory requires that you obtain a legal subscription with an “approved” receiver and then activate that card on that receiver. Then once the card is activated you should be able to remove the card, capture the BOXKEY (this BOXKEY is like a MAC address in the fact that there are no two receivers with the same BOXKEY, it individually identifies that exact peace of hardware) from the receiver’s TSOP via a JTAG interface, discard the receiver, and decode signal via the card and the help of an aftermarket CAM with the receivers BOXKEY programmed into it. The cam you use will have to support Dish networks version of NAGRAVISION, which has a BOXKEY field. This BOXKEY is what marries your smartcard to a specific receiver. With the correct BOXKEY programmed into a compatible cam (the MATRIX CAMs are all ones that can do it) the smart card would not know the difference between the real receiver and the aftermarket CAM because the CAM now has the same BOXKEY as the receiver you activated the card on.

Slice

P.S. you should note that you would not be able to use the receiver you activated the card on due to the fact that you cannot have two different pieces of hardware with the same BOXKEY or you probably would run into problems. As long as you are using the aftermarket CAM with that BOXKEY you cannot use the receiver that you extracted the BOXKEY from.

[slicemaster102]

BuMpBuMp

[FredThompson]

If this was a research question, uh...here's a little help:

Dish Network and DirecTV don't have standard streams. Of the two, Dish Network streams are far more unstable.

If you want specifics, try asking the author of TyTool.