Family Guy DVD source has shifting frames

[Spotpuff]

When trying to encode a Family Guy episode off the DVDs, I ran into a problem. The source VOB file I ripped from the DVD has certain frames or parts of frames which seem to be off by a bit, or move around a little bit, creating a "blurring" or vibrating when watching at full speed.

It's really annoying; I am using DVD decrypter w/ GK 0.32 and XVID 1.01. At first I thought it was my XVID/GK settings (IVTC/Force Film) but when I viewed the VOB file in MPC it still had the "vibrating" frames so I'm wondering if anyone else has come across this problem before.

I've encoded lots of other DVDs and never run into this; though, this is the first cartoon I've encoded and I heard cartoons are really bad.

[manono]

Hi-

I haven't done The Family Guy, but from your description, it sounds like you have a DVD with blended fields. Is this the R1 NTSC version, or from somewhere else? To test for blended fields, make an .avs with something like this:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Path\To\FamilyGuy.d2v")
SeparateFields()
LanczosResize(640,480)

Save it and then open it in VDubMod. Scroll to a place with movement, and then start advancing one frame at a time. If you see blending/ghosting from time to time, then you're screwed. That kind of thing is difficult, and sometimes impossible, to fix.

But maybe I'm wrong, and your vibrating is caused by something else. If you could post a vob sample, by chance, that would help us diagnose it. Otherwise, just report back if you see clean frames or blended frames.

[Spotpuff]

You hit the nail on the head of the coffin. I thought it was just interlacing, but if what you describe is blended fields, then you're right... I did a full 30 FPS decode (no FF) and there seemst o be "interlacing/ghosting" every 5 frames or so.

And, it IS region 1 NTSC DVD (north america)... I've seen family guy rips before, it's just they were a retarded file size (170MB/ep... 140 lets you fit 5/CD). So, obviously, it's possible to do this... but I'm not sure how. Maybe the person who encoded it before was using a different region disc?

Also, why is it that powerdvd plays the DVDs fine but the ripped VOBs have said "wiggling" frames?

[techz]

I did all three seasons of Family Guy and they all have this problem, I just did a FF and then encoded them @ 115MB each because I had to plan out all the 3 seasons.

I noticed that using DivX, the blurring effects werent there, but in Xvid they were present, Xvid had an advantage though that the border of hands and items in teh animation do not show a buzz effect like in DivX. Finally I choose divx. It was better to have the buzz effect rather than the horible effect in xvid.

[Spotpuff]

Hmm, I did try FF and it didn't fix the problem, which made me view the VOB in MPC and the VOB file has the "vibration"... in the very first episode, this is very noticeable in the scene where Peter is lying on the table; the tiles in the background have lines that "vibrate"... I have never seen this before :T Why oh why do DVD encodes have such strange, crazy things?

[manono]

Hi-

If it's R1, then there shouldn't be blended fields. Now it sounds to me that your problem comes from just deinterlacing it and keeping it at 29.97fps, rather than performing IVTC. First, read this:

http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm

Second, open the 29.97fps .d2v in GKnot, and scroll to a place with movement. Ordinarily, if it can be IVTC'd, you'd see 3 progressive frames (non-interlaced) and 2 interlaced frames in every sequence of 5 frames. But this is a cartoon, and they aren't usually drawn at 24fps, so it may not display that pattern. But try this now. Make a new .avs, and apply IVTC. Then save that .avs and rather than encoding it, open it in VDubMod, go File->File Information to make sure it's 23.976fps, and go to a place with movement. If it can be IVTC'd you should see "clean" frames, with none of the ghosting, or blending or wiggling that you're reporting. If you still see the aliasing or stairstepping or shimmer in thin horizontal lines, then add Post=0 to Telecide. That will turn off the deinterlacer. It sometimes deinterlaces when it shouldn't, with the default settings, and can create the artifacts you describe.

But techz has actually encoded them, and had some observations. But I can't comment, not having seen the Family Guy DVDs. But it does sound strange to me that DivX would work better than XviD.

[Spotpuff]

Originally posted by manono
Hi-

If it's R1, then there shouldn't be blended fields. Now it sounds to me that your problem comes from just deinterlacing it and keeping it at 29.97fps, rather than performing IVTC. First, read this:

http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm

Second, open the 29.97fps .d2v in GKnot, and scroll to a place with movement. Ordinarily, if it can be IVTC'd, you'd see 3 progressive frames (non-interlaced) and 2 interlaced frames in every sequence of 5 frames. But this is a cartoon, and they aren't usually drawn at 24fps, so it may not display that pattern. But try this now. Make a new .avs, and apply IVTC. Then save that .avs and rather than encoding it, open it in VDubMod, go File->File Information to make sure it's 23.976fps, and go to a place with movement. If it can be IVTC'd you should see "clean" frames, with none of the ghosting, or blending or wiggling that you're reporting. If you still see the aliasing or stairstepping or shimmer in thin horizontal lines, then add Post=0 to Telecide. That will turn off the deinterlacer. It sometimes deinterlaces when it shouldn't, with the default settings, and can create the artifacts you describe.

But techz has actually encoded them, and had some observations. But I can't comment, not having seen the Family Guy DVDs. But it does sound strange to me that DivX would work better than XviD.

Manano, I tried FF and IVTC separately in GK. I am not very good with .avs files; I just open things in GK and encode after making a d2v project :) I did do FF and IVTC separately. FF left some interlacing in some frames, but IVTC doesn't have those interlacing problems, so it seems like a better option.

However, as I said, the SOURCE vob file has the "vibrating" frames which is noticeable ESPECIALLY on horizontal lines... so I'm not sure what the issue is and how to fix it. I did read the tutorial on IVTC and I don't think that's the problem; I have NO idea what the problem actually is, and why certain frames just seem to be shifted a few pixels down. :T

[manono]

Hi-

as I said, the SOURCE vob file has the "vibrating" frames

So you did. Sorry. I noted that in my first reply (which lead me to think it was blended fields causing it), and then promptly forgot it for my second reply.

If it's in the source, then I don't know that there's much you can do about it. Maybe take techz's advice and see if DivX handles it any better.