Cannot Achieve DVD Quality

[edeus]

I have been trying to achieve the highest quality dvd rip for a while now, until a week ago I believed it was because of the vertical resolution until I learnt better.

I have been using the target quality mode with 85-100%. I get reasonable sized files (900mb-2000mb) considering there is also AC3 sound. Maximum Quality doesnt give anything except a huge file size and higher bitrate.

Quality is good but far from very good/excellent/dvd quality. Images just come out blocky or "washed" without definition as if it were jpeg with high compression.

After reading and rereading posts (5 days later), I am not much closer - except I have checked my xvid versions.

[manono]

Hi-

If you're using 85-100% quality, and aren't changing any other settings in AutoGK, and are getting blocky .avis as a result, then I'd guess it's not the .avi that's at fault, but perhaps the decoder.

But just as a test, what happens when you open the finished .avi in VDubMod? Do you see the same blockiness, or blurriness when you scroll to one of the problem places. Also, go File->File Information and let me know the resolution and framerate.

So, what are you using to decode the .avi? Just the decoder that comes with XviD? It should be OK, but you might try a different one to see if the results are any better. I'd recommend ffdshow (http://mitglied.lycos.de/ieggei2/ffdshow/) as an alternative.

And when you say "blocky", are you referring to macroblocks caused by too much action? There shouldn't be blocks in complex scenes unless it's in the source. If you're referring to moving blocks in dark places, or in solid colors, like in a sky or a wall, then welcome to the wonderful world of MPEG-4 compression. Those have been discussed to death around here, with various fixes suggested, none of which, I don't think, solve the problem.

[edeus]

using VLC the quality does look better but the poor quality is still apparent especially in full screen mode around edges.

when I say blocky, I dont mean unwatchable, just that compared to the dvd source there is such a difference. In some instances it would appear the video was a 1 cd rip.

Is there any advantage two pass that one pass does not have if i am not going to copy to cd/dvd? is xvid just a technology that cannot provide dvd quality however high the bitrate or setting? Each dvd rips in 2 hours but to me if it took 5 hours but good quality, i would be much happier.

Thanks.

p.s. Could custom filters be useful to improve quality?

[manono]

Hi-

Any time something is reencoded to a lossy codec, there will be quality degradation. But at your settings, it may or may not be noticeable.

On what are you viewing your encodes? An LCD monitor, by chance? See if this thread relates to your problem:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79499

On my CRT monitor, I don't see any blocks at all in the sample the guy posted. But the LCD guys see them easily.

You didn't really answer the questions I asked before, so rather than me guessing, do you have the log to post here?

Is there any advantage two pass that one pass does not have ...

No.

Could custom filters be useful to improve quality?

Perhaps. Some are suggested in the thread to which I linked. And a search will turn up others. But they aren't things you can do with AutoGK. For adding filters, you'd be better off with GKnot.

[edeus]

Sorry I didnt answer your questions. The blocks generally throughout the entire movie. Most low action scenes are crisper but there are still many that remain blocky. High action scenes generally come out low quality.

It may be that I am looking for something that isnt possible with divx. I know I am to expect a lower quality image but with many movies that I have encoded, they are just turning out so far beyond the source it is frustrating.

Would using a fixed width 720 width slightly help in improving quality?

Hypothetically if I were to blow the movie up to 2x size, then compress it, the movie would be easier to compress but when viewed in normal "full screen" it would look better?

Thanks for your comments.

[manono]

I don't know man. I ask questions, and I don't get answers. I don't ask them just to pad my post count. You have a serious problem that (I think) can be solved, but I need information.
1. Does it look the same when opened in VDubMod and viewed?
2. What's the resolution?
3. What's the framerate?
4. Have you tried decoding through ffdshow?
5. Can you post a log?
6. Are you viewing on an LCD, a CRT, a TV, or what?

And now I'll ask another one. Can you post a piece of the .avi showing the problem? If not, then PM me and I'll give you access to my server so that you can send me a 30 second or so piece.

[edeus]

Sorry I have been working for the last 12 hours. I am not thinking correctly. I tried answering your questions in my last reply but it just seemed like i ignored you again. Again im sorry to waste your time like that.

1. Does it look the same when opened in VDubMod and viewed?
It looks the same.
2. What's the resolution?
704x304 Output, 720x576 PAL DVD Input
3. What's the framerate?
25fps
4. Have you tried decoding through ffdshow?
Yes and it appears better (at least different) but i find faces are still washed out.
5. Can you post a log?
Sure, See below.
6. Are you viewing on an LCD, a CRT, a TV, or what?
LCD, on TV it does look better however.

If posting a clip is necessary I will but hopefully my issue isnt that serious.


[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] AutoGK 1.47b
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] OS: WinXP (5.1.2600).2
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Job started.
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Input dir: C:\GLADIATOR
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Output file: C:\My Documents\My Videos\Gladiator.avi
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Audio: English
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Subtitles: none
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Codec: XviD
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Target quality: 90%
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Custom audio settings: AC3
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Started encoding.
[10/07/2004 11:39:28 PM] Demuxing and indexing.
[10/07/2004 11:46:44 PM] Source aspect ratio: 16:9
[10/07/2004 11:46:44 PM] Source resolution: 720x576
[10/07/2004 11:46:44 PM] Found PAL source.
[10/07/2004 11:46:44 PM] Analyzing source.
[10/07/2004 11:46:44 PM] Writing the following script to C:\My Documents\My Videos\agk_tmp\lastjob.vcf
===========================================================
VirtualDub.Open("C:\\My Documents\\My Videos\\agk_tmp\\_.avs",0,0);
VirtualDub.RemoveInputStreams();
VirtualDub.video.SetDepth(24,24);
VirtualDub.video.SetMode(0);
VirtualDub.video.SetFrameRate(0,1);
VirtualDub.video.SetIVTC(0,0,-1,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetCompression();
VirtualDub.video.filters.Clear();
VirtualDub.subset.Delete();
VirtualDub.SaveAVI("C:\\My Documents\\My Videos\\agk_tmp\\_.avi");
===========================================================
[10/07/2004 11:54:47 PM] Source has percentage of interlacing in motion areas: 0.00
[10/07/2004 11:54:47 PM] Source is considered to be progressive.
[10/07/2004 11:54:50 PM] Found 222860 frames
[10/07/2004 11:54:51 PM] Running single pass encoding.
[10/07/2004 11:54:51 PM] Writing the following script to C:\My Documents\My Videos\agk_tmp\Gladiator_movie.avs
===========================================================
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\undot.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("C:\My Documents\My Videos\agk_tmp\Gladiator.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,aspect=0,threshold=34)
fixed_aspect = 1.42222222222222
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = input_par > 1.4 ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 704
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,aspect=new_aspect,threshold=34)
Undot()
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
===========================================================
[10/07/2004 11:54:53 PM] Writing the following script to C:\My Documents\My Videos\agk_tmp\lastjob.vcf
===========================================================
VirtualDub.Open("C:\\My Documents\\My Videos\\agk_tmp\\Gladiator_movie.avs",0,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetMode(1);
VirtualDub.video.SetFrameRate(0,1);
VirtualDub.video.SetIVTC(0,0,-1,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetRange(0,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetCompression(0x64697678,0,10000,0);
VirtualDub.video.filters.Clear();
VirtualDub.subset.Delete();
VirtualDub.RemoveInputStreams();
VirtualDub.stream[0].SetSource("C:\\My Documents\\My Videos\\agk_tmp\\Gladiator AC3 T01 3_2ch 384Kbps DELAY 0ms.ac3",0x00000203,0);
VirtualDub.stream[0].SetMode(0);
VirtualDub.stream[0].SetInterleave(1,96,96,1,0);
VirtualDub.stream[0].SetClipMode(1,1);
VirtualDub.stream[0].SetConversion(0,0,0,0,0);
VirtualDub.stream[0].SetVolume();
VirtualDub.stream[0].SetCompression();
VirtualDub.video.AddComment(0x00000000,"IAS1","English");
VirtualDub.SaveAVI("C:\\My Documents\\My Videos\\Gladiator.avi");
===========================================================
[11/07/2004 3:00:24 AM] Duration was: 3 hours 5 minutes 31 seconds
[11/07/2004 3:00:24 AM] Speed was: 20.02 fps.
[11/07/2004 3:00:24 AM] Job finished.

[manono]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. Three things come to mind.

1. Gladiator is a particularly tough movie to encode. It has lots of smoke and haze and night time scenes. MPEG-4 compression always has a real hard time with smoke especially. And with night time scenes you often get the so-called "black blocks", with dark blocks moving all around. That earlier link has some suggestions about how to improve it, but nothing much helps, in my opinion. One thing you can do, though, is to use ffdshow to decode, and add some film grain or noise to the output. That should make it appear better. I would also suggest doing a different movie to see if the problems repeat themselves.

2. I don't have an LCD screen, but those that do (again, referring to the earlier link) say it magnifies the problems. If you have a CRT monitor handy, or have a friend with one, you might try playing it on that computer with a CRT monitor to see if it looks any better.

3. I haven't mentioned video cards, and I don't know what you have. I used to have an old NVidea card, and my encodes always looked like garbage on it, but when played on my other computer with an ATI Radeon card, they looked great. Making sure your drivers are up to date is about all you can do in the off chance that you have an inferior vid card.

But the log file looks OK. I haven't seen the PAL Gladiator DVD, and I'm assuming it's OK. You might check it against some of the worst scenes in your .avi to see if some of the problems are in the source (you mentioned the washed out faces).

[edeus]

Thanks again, I also play my movies through xbox media center which seems to have good quality overall - and usually bypasses any codec issues.

Watching movies on a tube television and CRT monitor does improve things signifigantly. Since I do all my quality testing on the computer when I rip the movie I never would have thought that there was any point in trying to watch the movie on screen.

AGK is such a straight forward program - I just wish I could get even more quality! :D

Coming back to a quick question before if you dont mind:


Would using a fixed width 720 width slightly help in improving quality?

Hypothetically if I were to blow the movie up to 2x size, then compress it, the movie would be easier to compress but when viewed in normal "full screen" it would look better?

...and since the movie is just blown up, wouldnt compression work better anyway to end with a smaller file size. Sorry if this is blatantly stupid.

I am more curious if the small increase of resolution would help the quality though. Its something that has been bugging me for a while.

[manono]

Hi-

Would using a fixed width 720 width slightly help in improving quality?

Well, not in my opinion, and certainly not when viewing on a standard interlaced TV set. I can see an advantage, if you have a fixed pixel display (Plasma Screen, LCD, DLP, etc.), for making them at the same native resolution as the display. For example, if you can set your LCD for 640x480 (but I don't know if that's possible) then I can see where a 640x272 version of Gladiator might look better. But the difference between 704 and 720 is so slight that I don't see where you'd get a significant improvement. However, with AutoGK's Maximum Quality setting, you get not only 720*xxx resolution, but the B-Frames are dropped as well. You'll get a larger final file size, but you might give it a try sometime. But I wouldn't really expect a major improvement.

Hypothetically if I were to blow the movie up to 2x size, then compress it, the movie would be easier to compress but when viewed in normal "full screen" it would look better?

Sorry, but I didn't understand any of that.