Analogue Capture Guide v4

[Wilbert]

The new version of the analogue capture guide is finally ready! This time a lot of stuff is added and rewritten. The guide can be found here:
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/capture/start.html

A compiled chm file (4.2 MB) can be found here:
http://www.wilbertdijkhof.com/ACG41.zip

mirror:
http://www.stefanstrobl.at/doom9/ACG41.zip

If you want to print it, you can hide the search tab.
__________

I remember Doom9 once said: "a good guide is written in one day", I can tell you it was a *very* long day for us :)

The changelog is very large. A small summary

* There's a new introductory section about analogue video.

* There is a section on how to determine the active capture window and how to use that for resizing.

* The resizing section is splitted up in a part for newbies and for advanced users. The latter includes information about sampling, Nyquist and quality of the scalers of various capture cards.

* The VirtualDub postprocessing section has been completed (deinterlacing, color adjustment, etc.).

* Instructions how to remove clicks and scratches have been added.

* and a lot more ...

This version is written by trevlac, arachnotron, i4004 and me. So, I want to thank them for their help, patience and interesting discussions we had. I certainly learned a lot from that.

I hope you will like it, and learn from it. If you want to ask things, discuss things or simply give your opinion, please feel free to do that in this thread.

edit: for anyone who wonders why the link to section 17 VDub frameserving doesn't work (in start.html). The link is not correct:

http://www.doom9.org/capture/Frameserving.html

should be

http://www.doom9.org/capture/frameserving.html


edit: I replaced the link to version 4.1.

[guada]

Very good job Wilbert ;)

[Incast]

A fantastic guide. Thanks!

[North2Polaris]

trevlac, arachnotron, i4004 and Wilbert,

:)

North

[VILLA21]

Thanks for the extensive guide and the thorough analysis! A silly question, how can i print the whole guide (all the html pages) or at least, any chance for a pdf or doc file?
:)

[Wilbert]

any chance for a pdf or doc file?
No, too much work :(

If it helps I can make a chm file, so that you can read it offline (and print it page by page)?

[iradic]

i found your cap guide very good (old ver i have on my disk)...
i just quickly browsed manual and i have one question...

[removeeed]

thanks,

[edit] removed stupid questions ... sorry

[ADLANCAS]

Very good guide!

...you can read it offline ...
It should be nice.

[VILLA21]

If it helps I can make a chm file
Yes, sure...much appreciated!
:)

[Wilbert]

I added a download link to my first post!

Btw, for some reason the link is not working atm. I hope that's solved tomorrow.

[lark]

ciao,
is there actually a minor typo in the 1st example in the 5.6 (resizing) section
So, remove 18 black pixels of your 702x576 cap.
shouldn't that be
So, remove 18 black pixels of your 720x576 cap.

regards
t :)

[Wilbert]

Yes, you are right. Well spotted!

[Arachnotron]

Hi Wilbert,

I just noticed that in section 6.3

http://www.doom9.org/capture/images/VVCR_capture_stats.jpg

seems to be missing.

[VILLA21]

Originally posted by Wilbert
I added a download link to my first post!

Btw, for some reason the link is not working atm. I hope that's solved tomorrow.
It"s ok today, downloading right now! :)

[Fizick]

Very good and complete guide - greate work!
But I am not impressed with description of my De-Spot plugin only as de-scratch tool. :(

[Wilbert]

But I am not impressed with description of my De-Spot plugin only as de-scratch tool. :(
Does it mean that you are disappointed because it is the only tool, or are you not impressed because there other descratch tools we forgot to mention?

[Arachnotron]

I think he means de-spot has other uses too besides desratching

But this guide was never intended to be an exhaustive guide to all the options of all filters available. It is merely a guide to get people started with common filtering tasks associated with analogue sources.

[Fizick]

Sorry my English.
Yes, de-spot has other uses too besides desratching
In the introduction we may read about clicks (different words for this effect are sparklies, spots) on our screens.
I think it is not very frequent, however quite common filtering tasks associated with analogue sources.

I can post my more detail article analisys here.

1. There are no one picture which shows as filter works O.K.:
Pic.1 shows first source frame (vhs-source1line.jpg) with long horizontal drop-out,
Pic.2 shows second source frame with more short long horizontal drop-out,
Pic.3 shows as DeSpot successfully detect (mark) drop-line of first frame.
Pic.4 shows as DeSpot successfully detect (mark) drop-line of second frame.
Before Pic.5 there are text:
We tried to do vhs drop-out fixing with this filter, but we had less luck with it. It seems that vhs drop-outs are too gentle for despot to find. The examples in
And Pic.5 again shows SOURCE frame 1. (The SAME vhs-source1line.jpg). Why you do not show CLEANED frame? I am sure, that if DeSpot detect and mark a spot, it MUST clean it (may be partially or with artefactes.)
Pic.6 show man without buttons (false cleaning).
Pic.7 show man with buttons (source).
It is of cource main faults of Despot. :(
But there are many parameters in the filter, for example we may control spot size, and spot brightness (only black for example).

2. I have some e-mail conversation with I4004 today. As he say, he use old version 1.0 of Despot (now lastest is v. 3.1 with many improvements).

3. I also ask I4004, why he does not try more appropriate filter for VHS line drop-out and descratch. I have such filter, may be you know. It has a name (surprise...) DeSñratch ;) . It can originally to detect and clean only vertical scratch. But image may be rotated before and de-rotated after. I am not sure, that it will work, but why not try ? :)

4. I4004 probably will try Descratch and new vesion of Despot.

5. May be some article update must be done (later).

6. I am not "fizick", but "Fizick" ! :D

[Wilbert]

Thanks for all your comments! I will talk with ivo about it, and update it in a next version.

[Fizick]

O.K., I go to read (analyze) other parts of your article. ;)

But the last my comment may (must) be edited now! :)

[Boulder]

You may also want to point out that CNR2 has finally been fixed thanks to tritical; the latest working version is now 2.61.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78905

[tyee]

Excellent guide, thanks to all who contributed. The info on PAR is very nice. I did find an error in Section 16.5.1, the last paragraph step 1 is --

1. determine target horizontal size and divide by the source horizontal size: 640 / 690 = 1.0435

You can see the division should be less than 1, which makes the next calc's errored.

I also have another question regarding resizing. It seems there are 3 methods to use -
1. PAR method from section 16 (always works, great!)
2. Sections 4.4 and 5.6(same as 4.4), method 1
3. Sections 4.4 and 5.6(same as 4.4), method 2

I have figured out how to apply scaling factors for using method 1 when you have cropped all black borders from a source but I'm having difficulty using method 2 to do this. Any hints? Please try the example in section 16.5.1,example 2 for instance.

One last observation regarding method 1 is that it seems to work no matter what you capture at. As long as you know your source capture H and V pixels and the capture width of your source, you can just resize it to maintain the aspect ratio and then pad the H or V value to get the target format size. I've done all the examples in the PAR section using this method and it never fails.

tyee

[Arachnotron]

You can see the division should be less than 1, which makes the next calc's errored. Oops! Missed that one. You are right about that.
I have figured out how to apply scaling factors for using method 1 when you have cropped all black borders from a source but I'm having difficulty using method 2 to do this. Any hints? Please try the example in section 16.5.1,example 2 for instance.

I would not know, I'm a PAR user myself ;). Maybe Trev or Wilbert can answer that one.

But basically, method 1 and 2 are quick and simple methods to do resizing calcs provided you don't do any extra cropping beforehand or do a PAL to NTSC conversion or something like that. So they don't cover all situations but have the advantage of being simple.

[trevlac]

Originally posted by tyee

I have figured out how to apply scaling factors for using method 1 when you have cropped all black borders from a source but I'm having difficulty using method 2 to do this. Any hints? Please try the example in section 16.5.1,example 2 for instance.



Well, that's a bit of a goofy method. I don't know how I agreed to that. :D Step 1 of method 2 expects you to cap at your destination. 480x576 for svcd. Then it works. (I could be wrong, so don't trust me.)

If you want to do different than your destination we could modify it.

As a method #2.B example:

1. 768x576 my that's big.
2. svcd is 53.333
3. BTWincap PAL is 52.03
4. 52.03/53.333 * 480 = 468
4.B Resize from your cap size 768x576 to 468x576
5. Add 6 pixels on each side to get 480x576
6. You already resized so don't do it again.

The 'simple' methods are really intended for TV watching where you don't care about the edges because you wont see them. AKA, you almost always have to pad.

[tyee]

Thanks guys for the info. I'll keep reading the guide. It will take a while to get through it.

BTW, I downloaded the .chm file which is great. What software would you guys recommend that's easy to use to make .chm files from HTML or from anything else for that matter?

[Wilbert]

Compiling chm files:

1) Download and install Microsoft HTML Workshop here:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/OfficeXPProf/Install/4.71.1015.0/W98NT42KMe/EN-US/HTMLHELP.EXE

2) Open it one time to ensure that .hhp files are associated with this program.

2b) hhp = project file, hhc = contents file.

3) Open it: File -> New -> Project (... and give it a name).

4) In the project tab:

a) Upper left button "change project options". Here you can change:

a1) general tab: language
a2) files tab: name and path of compiled (chm) file
a3) compiler tab: check 'Compile full text search info' to include search possibilities in chm file.

b) Second button (add/remove topic files): include all the html files. In the case of cap guide, only start.html is sufficient, because every other html page is linked to this.

5) If you want to include a Contents file (like we did for AviSynth: Table of Contents.hhc), click on the Contents tab. Now you can make a contents file. I suggest you to open the project file of AviSynth (english.hhp), to see how the contents file is made. The project/contents file of AviSynth are included in the documentation.

6) Under the File tab, select Compile to make the chm file.

I hope this is enough info to get you started :)

[tyee]

Thanks Wilbert. I'll get started!

[jefflv]

> A compiled chm file (4.2 MB) can be found here:
> http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ACG40.zip

Is that chm link valid? Yahoo says it's not.

Jeff

[tyee]

I just DL'd it. Looks OK!

PS. Then I tried it again and now I can't get it! Strange?

[Wilbert]

Right mouse click -> save target as. Works here :) Hmmm, second time I tried it didn't. I suggest you try again tomorrow.

[xdcdx]

The geocities link is not working for me, I tried yesterday and today.

Can anybody upload the file to a more reliable server or something? By the way, is it the last version or the HTML one is more updated?

[Wilbert]

By the way, is it the last version or the HTML one is more updated?
No, it's the same one. It would be nice if someone could make a mirror :)

[Wilbert]

I replaced the link to version 4.1. We updated the section 13 "Removal of clicks, scratches and VHS drop-outs".

Other suggestions, errors from this thread will be corrected at a later stage.

[Fizick]

O.K., I see some improvements :)
Descratch part is added.
But DeSpot part is still obsolete (version 1.0 was used probably).
[Despot has reached version 3.1, but because no bigger improvements are seen in filter speed or handling of motion scenes, there was no need to update this guide.]
I think, "IMHO" was omitted here by Ivo. :mad:
Some new motion option was added in v.3.
And DeSpot has reached version 3.2 recently ;)

[killingspree]

Originally posted by Wilbert
It would be nice if someone could make a mirror :)

edit: new mirror is here: http://www.stefanstrobl.at/doom9/ACG41.zip

cheers

kr
stefan

[Wilbert]

Thanks! (added to the first post ...)

[emazur]

I get the error message "cannot open file" if try and double click the .chm after unzipping (4.35Mb). I use Japanese Windows XP Pro. Other chm files open OK

[VCD MASTER]

Hia there.

<<Angry drivel removed by moderator, per Rules 4 and 16>>

...

I'm sending you a sample of a capture done under their parameters, wanna see some professional results over a vcd for tv broadcasting? check this out: www.canalrcn.com

[VCD MASTER]

<<Additional angry drivel removed>>




See ya, enjoy and meet the truth.

[Fizick]

I read this chapter:

7.2.1 Determine cuts in VirtualdubMod:

If you do it manually, remember that VirtualdubMod starts counting at frame one, while AviSynth starts counting at frame zero.

probably, it is not correct (about VDMod).

BTW, VDMOD has bug with converting framesets to TRIMs
(end frame must be less by 1).:(

[jggimi]

Unfortunately, I must shut down this thread as well. VCD MASTER has been suspended for a month. I've left his links in here, as there may be some value in what he's trying to say, though he is apparently a poor communicator.

I hope he spends some time reading here, and gets to know this forum and its members, during his time off.

Additional comments on the capture guide must be posted in new threads.

[Wilbert]

The thread is reopened on my request. Valuable comments, suggestions, etc. are welcome again!

@Windows XP Pro users,

Do other users of 'Windows XP Pro' have the same problem as emazur?

[emazur]

If the .chm file issue is solved that would be nice, but as long as I'm here I have some criticisms of the guide:)
I'm following the "removal of chroma artifacts" section (using avisynth),
http://www.doom9.org/capture/chroma_artefacts.html
but find that it jumps around a bit, and doesn't "piece it all together" and provide a general example for eliminating the 3 main chroma artifacts as shown in the guide (12.1: chroma noise, 12.2: chroma shift, 12.3: rainbow/dotcrawls). And I'm unsure of the correct order of the usage.
In my case, I'm trying to convert near/lossloss avi to vcd mpg at the moment (also interested in high quality dvd mpg), using dvd2svcd. My thread in dvd2svcd forum is here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83133
As mentioned in the thread I managed to piece together this script for avisynth. If it's good or flawed, I don't know:

0=Trim(2155,58642) ++ Trim(62784,74846) ++ Trim(78458,91135) ++ Trim(94732,115285) ++ Trim(118978,124282)
1=ChromaShift(C=-6)
2=GuavaComb(Mode = "NTSC", Recall = 75, MaxVariation = 25, Activation = 40)
3=PeachSmoother()
4=BicubicResize(^TargetWidth+^BorderLeft+^BorderRight,^TargetHeight+^BorderTop+^BorderBott
om,^b_value,^c_value)
^b_value=0.0
^c_value=0.6

Actually this was the original script I made, but for some reason the CNR2 function crashes CCE . Anyone know why and/or what I should do about it? If I open this avs in media player it plays OK


0=Trim(2155,58642) ++ Trim(62784,74846) ++ Trim(78458,91135) ++ Trim(94732,115285) ++ Trim(118978,124282)
1=Cnr2("xxx", 4, 5, 255)
2=ChromaShift(C=-6)
3=GuavaComb(Mode = "NTSC", Recall = 75, MaxVariation = 25, Activation = 40)
4=PeachSmoother()
5=BicubicResize(^TargetWidth+^BorderLeft+^BorderRight,^TargetHeight+^BorderTop+^BorderBott
om,^b_value,^c_value)
^b_value=0.0
^c_value=0.6

[Boulder]

What version of CNR2 do you have? v2.61 is the only one working properly.

[killingspree]

nope... just checked again, working perfectly fine... winXP SP1 (still) - so i can't say anything about SP2 jet

steVe

edit: ahm, of course WinXP Pro SP1

[Arachnotron]

Do other users of 'Windows XP Pro' have the same problem as emazur? Not with the us version of XPpro SP2. It opens just fine.

[emazur]

Originally posted by Boulder
What version of CNR2 do you have? v2.61 is the only one working properly.

2.4, I got it from the author's page:
http://ziquash.chez.tiscali.fr/
I see avisynth.org has 2.61 linked on their external filters page, I'll try that later.

Also for anyone who's wondering my winxp is sp1. It's running quite nicely now, so I'm not looking to risk mucking it up with sp2.

[Arachnotron]

Hi Wilbert,

I just noticed

http://www.doom9.org/capture/images/VVCR_capture_stats.jpg

Is missing from chapter 6.3

[Wilbert]

I know. It's there in 4.1 :)

[killingspree]

i had to change the url of the guide i'm hosting... the new capture guide can now be downloaded under

http://www.stefanstrobl.at/doom9/ACG41.zip

cheers
steve

[Wilbert]

What the guide says doesn't hurt; it should produce the same results. Separating the fields is just an unnecessary step.
Furthermore, most people probably do some spatial filtering too.

I suppose it would be nice if the guide mentioned the unfold/fold method or scharfis_brain's method. It seems like these questions have been coming up a lot recently...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=588265#post588265

[Chainmax]

Could ajordan's FixChromaBleeding (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=77074&highlight=FixChromaBleeding%28%29) function be included in the guide? It seems like a quick and easy way to automatically correct chroma shifts.

[Chainmax]

Also, SSIQ (http://yatta.mellbin.org/misc/) should be considered, it's a very good rainbow removal filter.

[Wilbert]

Thanks! We will look at it. We are writing a new version atm, but i don't have much time for it.

[marine312]

Thanks

[chipzoller]

In the next version, would it be possible for the authors to update broken links in the 'references' sections ending each page for those who would like to read more in-depth?

[anubhavrocker]

Probably the best guide i hv ever seen.

Thanks

[al4711]

Hi,

does such a description exists also for Linux?!

Cheers

Aleks

[video_magic]

The link in the post from VCD MASTER (link removed) now only points to some sponsored-links page advertising 'nude clebrity pics' and the like...

[neuron2]

The links have been removed. Thank you.

[Gluib]

Hi! In section 5 it says:

"Find the sample rate for your destination standard in the table in section 5.1.2."

I guess you mean section 5.2.1.

[deathtical]

The links to the guide are dead. Could they be updated please? Thanks.

[Wilbert]

The links to the guide are dead. Could they be updated please? Thanks.
Do you mean the links in the first post? They work fine for me.

[Royal-star]

Very good I love it !!
Nice work,continue in this spirit .