n00b HDTV capturing questions (japan - other regions may apply)

[EcchiNut]

Not sure if the DTV/HDTV is going to be Sat or Cable at this moment.
ATi is coming out with a HDTV Wonder card link (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2089) , the mention about encryption and that has me slightly confused - my experience with Sat is very limited - I've never had a reason to have it here locally, so I never looked into it - Till now at least.

Because cable and satellite HDTV signals are encrypted, the HDTV Wonder is unable to pick up these signals. In almost all cases, you need a configured set-top box to pick them up, which is something that ATI cannot do for each and every HDTV Wonder customer. Therefore, the HDTV Wonder is limited to terrestrial DTV broadcast signals, which can be picked up by any UHF antenna.

If paying for either of the services, the set-top box decodes the signals that the HDTV tuner can capture? Or is the set-top box convert it to analogue? Trying to "maintain quality" is a main goal. I have seen native .TS streams from (japan i think - japanese show at least) before. Please forgive my ignorance on this issue.

[Doom9]

ATI's card do far is limited to free-to-air terrestrial DTV broadcast. DTV means it's for the US only (they mean ATSC digital TV which is the HD format used in the US, and South Korea). Also, the card does not have a CAM module (that's a decryption card), so whatever programming is crypted, the ATI card can't pick it up. There are other cards though (at least for DVB) that have a CAM module so that encrypted programmming can be received as well.

IF you have an external receiver, those mostly only have analogue output, or DVI which is digital but doesn't help in the recording department either. Basically, you need a PCI ISDB (that's the Japanese digital TV standard) card either has a CAM module integrated, or has facilities to connect such a module. Alternatively, get a standalone receiver that can either record and stream the digital streams to your PC while you're recording, or has a HD for recordings (then you also need to make sure you can copy the TS streams from the receiver's HD to your PC's HD).

[EcchiNut]

Thanks Doom9, your reply alone is the more informative then I could have hoped for, and really cleared it up for me. I'll have to look into the PCI IDSB solutions. *pulls out google.jp*

[Doom9]

some corrections to what I said: actually your receiver / card should have a slot for a CAM module. Such a slot is basically a standard PC Card slot. In it you plug a CAM module (which looks like any PC card), which has a small slot, where you put in an access card you got from your service provider. That card contains a chip like todays bank / credit cards. Since there are many different cryptographic systems, you might need different CAM modules for different TV programs (if they're encrypted). When it comes to standalone receivers, they might also have a CAM module integrated, so you just have to put in your card. For instance I have a receiver that has two Viaccess slots (that's one commonly used system to encrypt digital TV), and two standard CAM slots where I could put in two CAM modules to receive programs encrypted using a different standard.

Pretty complex, isn't it?

[EcchiNut]

yah.. first bit made sense.. the second bit I had a hard time digesting. Had to keep re-reading it. I have an inking of what you are talking about now, at least.

Hooking the CAM module to the PC -> which device would be used in-between here? A HDTV tuner listed in some of the stickies here? In all likely case the goal is a HTPC for recording (unless theres a in-expensive TiVo-like Receiver option that can have its contents shared to the HTPC later - havent had much luck on google results so far). Thanks again for the replies.

edit - maybe i should start looking at the DVB guide first before driving you insane. >_<

[Doom9]

there are DVB PCI cards (I posted a rather big list of those) that have a PC Card slot where you insert a CAM module. Others have a connector onboard where you can connect another breakout header where you can insert a CAM module. But cards that support CAM are usually quite a bit more expensive than those that only support free-to-air reception. Obviously, there are software CAM solutions, but those are mostly used for illegal purposes.

[EcchiNut]

hrm.. would getting a Dreambox effectively cut the corners of the complexity? It seems to have mostly everything in it - but im still reading the guide at this moment.

[Doom9]

the Dreambox is a DVB box. Since ISDB is a Japanese only format, and since English is not the the most commonly used language in Japan, there's not much info to be found on ISDB hardware anywhere I've looked so far.

[Ishan]

I want to point something out :
There's some totaly legal softcam, like "poor man's cam", which emulate most of the CAM and use an official card on a cheap phoenix interface. It's a good legal alternative to official (and insanely expensive) CAM.

[EcchiNut]

From talking with timecop, it seems in April 2004, Japan introduced CPRM encryption, with "copy-once" flags in the broadcasts - effectively killing conventional means of backing up shows. He did mention with DVHS machines it was still possible, but the procedures involved were warranty voiding and not for the faint of heart, especially concerning the cost of these units. :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Ishan
I want to point something out :
There's some totaly legal softcam, like "poor man's cam", which emulate most of the CAM and use an official card on a cheap phoenix interface. It's a good legal alternative to official (and insanely expensive) CAM. I don't know about 'software' based CAMs but over here in Europe you can buy a fully licensed 'hardware' Multi-CAM. It's called Ulti-mate CAM and includes Irdeto and Conax.

For more info go to www.Ulti-mateCAM.com

There are of course non official multi CAMs, openly sold in the UK and in some parts of mainland Europe, that can handle more than two types of encryption. These go by quite a few names, such as 'Matrix CAM ReLoaded', Magic CAM' and 'X CAM'. You can even buy a CAM reprogrammer to go with them.

But.... "You's pays your money and you's takes your choice" with these babies....


Cheers