SVM2 - Chinese H.264 Decoder - H.264 AVI Clips [Archive]

SeeMoreDigital

29th May 2004, 12:29

Originally posted by bond
PegasusJack,
welcome to doom9 :)

do you know why your dshow decoder isnt usable for decoding h.264 streams from other encoders?
is there some limitation? Who's filter is it?

The logo in the top right hand corner looks familiar!

Cheers

EDIT: I've just downloaded and played back one of the Lord of the Rings clips. I don't mean to be harsh but there are better looking h.264 examples generated by forum members!

Doom9

29th May 2004, 13:25

@PegasusJack: what about the encoder? Oh, and the root of your frontpage points to the webalizer stats.. I'm not sure if that's desired.

SeeMoreDigital

29th May 2004, 13:42

I don't know about you guys but I've downloaded and played all the clip and I was not too impressed!

The DSdec filter also seems to be unstable. Try pausing playback and then moving thru' the encode using the slide-bar and you'll see what I mean!

And as I posted in the other thread the filters logo looks rather familiar.

Cheers

PegasusJack

29th May 2004, 16:27

Originally posted by bond
PegasusJack,
welcome to doom9 :)

do you know why your dshow decoder isnt usable for decoding h.264 streams from other encoders?
is there some limitation?
First, our H.264 codec passed ITU's 4.0 profile in 2003. I don't know the other encoders (H.264) passed or not?
Second, we wrap the H.264 video datum into MS' avi format. I guess there is some problems to unwrap other company H.264 clips.

Jack

PegasusJack

29th May 2004, 16:37

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Who's filter is it?

The logo in the top right hand corner looks familiar!

Cheers

EDIT: I've just downloaded and played back one of the Lord of the Rings clips. I don't mean to be harsh but there are better looking h.264 examples generated by forum members!

Most people think it is a Made-in-China H.264 codec. Actually, it was from Canada. I and my friends (classmates) brought the orginal design etc to China last year. We and several Chinese SF Engineers worked in it to make some progress in Performance Optimization and Encryption.
The performance is up 5-10% compared with orginal one. And I also move thousand C codes to a Locker sothat some guys will feel difficulty to copy it free.
The codec's performance is:
Encoding speed is around 84 fps (Celeron 2.5GHz, 128MB, Test File is News.yuv CIF size from ITU and QP is 18).
Decoding speed is 500 fps (CIF).
Currently, We are focusing SSE3 development to implementate real-time D1/HDTV encoding.

Jack

PegasusJack

29th May 2004, 16:38

Originally posted by Doom9
@PegasusJack: what about the encoder? Oh, and the root of your frontpage points to the webalizer stats.. I'm not sure if that's desired.
We have no time to setup our website. We are sorry about that:p

PegasusJack

29th May 2004, 16:44

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I don't know about you guys but I've downloaded and played all the clip and I was not too impressed!

The DSdec filter also seems to be unstable. Try pausing playback and then moving thru' the encode using the slide-bar and you'll see what I mean!

And as I posted in the other thread the filters logo looks rather familiar.

Cheers
Yes, you are right on the comments for my clips. the reason is, we just give a Key frame for whole clips. Normally, we should give one key frme between 300 frames or less. But it will not influnce bandwidth very much - 1~3% more maybe.:)

bond

29th May 2004, 17:19

Originally posted by PegasusJack
First, our H.264 codec passed ITU's 4.0 profile in 2003. I don't know the other encoders (H.264) passed or not?
Second, we wrap the H.264 video datum into MS' avi format. I guess there is some problems to unwrap other company H.264 clips.hm i tried decoding three h.264 streams placed by 3 different encoders (reference, vss and x264) in avi (with svm2 fourcc) and all show a green picture
when trying to decode your samples with the vss decoder (which itself handles all three files correctly), it crashes

SeeMoreDigital

29th May 2004, 17:38

I've also been unable to get the filter to open other types H.264 encodes :(

It would be really useful to have a filter that could decode most, if not all, types of H.264 (AVC) content.

Cheers

bond

29th May 2004, 17:49

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
It would be really useful to have a filter that could decode most, if not all, types of H.264 (AVC) content.well normally there are no different types of h.264
the mpeg-4 standard defines how to place all of them exactly the same way in .mp4, so that every decoder should be able to handle them without a problem

but now as the same avi mess goes on for h.264 we know already from mpeg-4 part2, interoperability problems are nothing to wonder about...

everyone will use vfw codecs which place h264 in avi (via virtualdub) -> because of this no dev will be able to/think about implementing advanced features, which are not possible in avi and/or vfw -> noone will know/think about/use them -> noone will be able to make full use of all the new technologies offered in h.264 unless some devs come around with hacks, which than again hurt interoperability even more
its a cycle of harming development, progress and quality in the long run, created by outdated technology: avi and vfw

i already gave up that avi or vfw will die a fast death, lets simply hope that at least some smart devs will come up with a smart h.264-in-avi to mp4 muxer

SeeMoreDigital

29th May 2004, 17:59

Originally posted by bond
...i already gave up that avi will die a fast death, lets simply hope that some smart devs will come up with a smart h.264-in-avi to mp4 muxer Agreed!

But why H.264 has appeared in AVI, in the first place is annoying. Especially as there are more filters and applications than ever before able to play MP4.

I can see H.264 turning into a monumental f*%k up if AVI is continued to be promoted as 'the container'!

Cheers

bond

29th May 2004, 18:05

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I can see H.264 turning into a monumental f*%k up if AVI is continued to be promoted as 'the container'its not that avi is getting promoted
its simply that people cant imagine stopping using virtualdub (which means vfw).
still a commandline encoder with nice gui would be as easy usable, could be offered platform independant (nothing is more windows centric than vfw) and wouldnt suffer from all the limitations of vfw and avi

edit: merged the two threads

bond

29th May 2004, 18:20

Originally posted by Tommy Carrot
Please don't hijack another thread to be a container war! Accept it that until a popular and easy to use encoder app VirtualdubMod doesn't support the MP4 container, people wont find any urge to use it. critising the too extensive usage of outdated technology is not a container war :p
if you would have read my statements you would have seen that vfw (which means virtualdub) is in the same way, if not even more, harming the technology in the long run as avi
therefore vd supporting .mp4 would help nothing

and before i get on the peoples nerves too much i will shut up (hoping that this avi/vfw focus will die as soon as the hd-dvd specs will be out)

SeeMoreDigital

29th May 2004, 18:27

Originally posted by bond
its not that avi is getting promoted
its simply that people cant imagine stopping using virtualdub (which means vfw). Yes I can understand what you mean but if you remember back in the days of DivX5.02, they included an secondary MP4 output function.

So when you used VirtualDub (or any other encoding application) you got both an AVI file and an MP4 file.

Surly such useful functionality can be implemented with other encoders?

Cheers

Soulhunter

29th May 2004, 20:50

Why not some sort of "bypass" function directly in VDub then ???

Bye

avih

29th May 2004, 21:00

Hi Jack, and welcome to the forum.
May I ask what company do u represent, or any other information about it? as you (and others) noted, the website is a bit sparse, to say the least ;).

congrats for the codec, the performance sounds impressive.

cheers,
avih.

CruNcher

29th May 2004, 21:23

Just a Dumb Question what for a Shit is this thats a modified Elecard H264 Decoder

I'll redirect this post to Moonlight Cordless LTD

gee this world is so craped everybody tries to make money let other customers use modified systems and say it's their own i hate this

SeeMoreDigital

29th May 2004, 21:34

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Why not some sort of "bypass" function directly in VDub then ??? Better to have it in the actual codec. That way the makers of the encoding apps don't have to do anything!

Originally posted by CruNcher
...thats a modified Elecard H264 DecoderI new i had seen that logo before!

Cheers

PegasusJack

30th May 2004, 02:01

Hello Floks;
Thanks all of you for Pegasus' TTL H.264 Codec. First, this codec was developed and onwed by BJ TTL and my company legally.
For some market reasons, we decide to use avi format to contain our H.264/26L data. Because, currently, our market is focusing in China, Mainland, here people like Windows and Windows Media Player and AVI format more than other Video Broswer. We should spend lots time to persuade them switching (cajoling/bullying) to other video browser even techbical better. For a plain guy, they will believe what they used to. As same reason, we changed the H.264 Data header a little bit so other guys' decoders can't handler my codec data. As well known, in this world some where, if giv and people don't have enough resource or laws to protect the copyrights and information properties, we should protect it by ourself. Although, it will make it uncompactible and kind of home-made style. Later, we will promote a compactible H.264 decoder filter.
My company is a start-up company, we have 8 sf engs. Officially, we setup the company in Feb, 2004. But wqe started the H.264 development in Sept, 2003. At that time, I only have 3 guys who help me.
We made the BJ Transcodia's H264 codec more stronger or friendly using. Like I said in previous post, the performance is up 5~10%. And it support multi-threading programming.
Because we are located in SuZhou, a small city near Shanghai. So we are not sure how good our codec will be. So I and one of my colleague made a codec filter (encoder and decoder) to compress some DVD clips and real-time TV signals. All clips are from the filter. The testing performance sounds good. We will continue to do H264 staff (SSE3 opm)and its applications such as Mobile Digital TV Broadcasting, DVD Ripper, WebCam, VOD etc. Actually we build a rough Mobile Vehicle Digital TV System in SuZhou's Bus system this month. So you can image how busy we are. I have no time to consider our company's website. It is why lots of you ask why www.h-264.com is a mess website. I plan to construct it in coming month.

Regards!
Jack

avih

30th May 2004, 02:05

Thanks for the information Jack. Good luck, and please let us test more of this stuff ;)

cheers,
avih

PegasusJack

30th May 2004, 03:59

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Better to have it in the actual codec. That way the makers of the encoding apps don't have to do anything!

I new i had seen that logo before!

Cheers
We didn't put any logo at the clips or somewhere:confused:

PegasusJack

30th May 2004, 06:43

Originally posted by PegasusJack
We didn't put any logo at the clips or somewhere:confused:
Hello;
Finally, I found the logo on the WM's upper-right corner. It waas a bug. We will fix it. I am sorry we used other company's Logo and mistakely put it into our compenant. Sorry!!!!

Jack

PegasusJack

30th May 2004, 10:08

Hello Folks;
We erased the logo which is not belong to us. You will watch some 'new' clips. Plz check out and enjoy them.

Jack

SeeMoreDigital

30th May 2004, 11:51

Originally posted by PegasusJack
So I and one of my colleague made a codec filter (encoder and decoder) to compress some DVD clips and real-time TV signals. All clips are from the filter. The testing performance sounds good. Hi Jack,

I notice that your real-time TV captures where generated using a smaller image pixel frame size. How were you DVD encodes generated. Are these real-time too?

Cheers

bond

30th May 2004, 12:42

Originally posted by PegasusJack
As same reason, we changed the H.264 Data header a little bit so other guys' decoders can't handler my codec data. As well known, in this world some where, if giv and people don't have enough resource or laws to protect the copyrights and information properties, we should protect it by ourself. Although, it will make it uncompactible and kind of home-made style. Later, we will promote a compactible H.264 decoder filter.well to make it short: your codec is not compatible to the h.264 standard...

PegasusJack

30th May 2004, 13:55

Originally posted by bond
well to make it short: your codec is not compatible to the h.264 standard...
Well, partially you are right. But we can provide a compatible codec.

Jack

PegasusJack

30th May 2004, 14:05

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Hi Jack,

I notice that your real-time TV captures where generated using a smaller image pixel frame size. How were you DVD encodes generated. Are these real-time too?

Cheers

The real-time TV clip is CIF size (352X288). The encoding speed is 82 fps roughly (Celeron 2.5 GHz, 128 MB Machine). DVD's encoding speed is 12~15fps at same Machine. :)

Jack

SeeMoreDigital

30th May 2004, 15:00

Originally posted by bond
well to make it short: your codec is not compatible to the h.264 standard... I must admit I would be a little more convinced about the merits of H.264 if I could try some encodes in an MP4 container.

I guess this would mean another direct-show filter - aswell as other things... and a lot more work!

This is probably the 'real' reason why we have not seen it yet, even from the big boys in the codec market ;)

Cheers

CruNcher

30th May 2004, 15:47

@PegasusJack

Hello;
Finally, I found the logo on the WM's upper-right corner. It waas a bug. We will fix it. I am sorry we used other company's Logo and mistakely put it into our compenant. Sorry!!!!

Jack

Jack normaly i dont shoot at anybody but a bug please come on :D
ok to be absolutely sure what's going on here i contacted moonlight ltd and they check this now if you are a official SDK user im sorry for all this, but you could have said so ;)

Another posibility how that logo came into is you decoded with Elecards H264 Decoder and captured this but why ?

PegasusJack

31st May 2004, 14:10

Originally posted by CruNcher
@PegasusJack

Jack normaly i dont shoot at anybody but a bug please come on :D
ok to be absolutely sure what's going on here i contacted moonlight ltd and they check this now if you are a official SDK user im sorry for all this, but you could have said so ;)

Another posibility how that logo came into is you decoded with Elecards H264 Decoder and captured this but why ?

Hello CruNcher;
My English is not very good even I lived in North America several years, sothat sometimes, I misunderstood other's saying.
First, we don't relate with Moonlight Ltd, even we did similar Video Codec. So I don't know why you should contact with Moonlight and tell them whether I am an official SDK user of Moonlights Ltd. Here, I represent my company: Pegasus Information Technology Inc., SuZhou. officially announce that all clips posted in www.h-264.com were generated from our H.264 codec, the codec originally provided by Transcodia BJ, and abs no other thrid party involved.
For the logo, our software engineers mistakely adopted that logo in our encoder filter. With few knowledge for copyrights, they assumed that we can use that logo as a temp logo to make the filter more good-look than a plain filter. When it was found, we erased the logo at first time. We apologize it.
Jack

PegasusJack

31st May 2004, 14:21

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I must admit I would be a little more convinced about the merits of H.264 if I could try some encodes in an MP4 container.

I guess this would mean another direct-show filter - aswell as other things... and a lot more work!

This is probably the 'real' reason why we have not seen it yet, even from the big boys in the codec market ;)

Cheers

Hello SeeMoreDigital;
This codec passed some versions of JM's H.264. But as a commercial H.264 SDK, sometimes, we need put our onw characteristics on it. For example, the decoder filter's FOUCC is totally different with other decoders. It will also make the codec look like uncompatible.

Jack

SeeMoreDigital

31st May 2004, 15:46

Originally posted by PegasusJack
...For example, the decoder filter's FOUCC is totally different with other decoders. It will also make the codec look like uncompatible.Well it appears that your H.264 encodes can't be decoded using other decoder filters anyway.

But by doing this you are not alone as it seems most companies, when promoting their own H.264 material also release their own decoder filter.

I can't speak for everybody else here but I find this method of promotion rather bizarre and confusing.

For us purists, it's bad enough we have Mpeg4 in AVI. Now it seems H.264 is going the same way!

Sorry to push the point. I really wish you every success.

Cheers

PegasusJack

31st May 2004, 15:55

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Well it appears that your H.264 encodes can't be decoded using other decoder filters anyway.

But by doing this you are not alone as it seems most companies, when promoting their own H.264 material also release their own decoder filter.

I can't speak for everybody else here but I find this method of promotion rather bizarre and confusing.

For us purists, it's bad enough we have Mpeg4 in AVI. Now it seems H.264 is going the same way!

Sorry to push the point. I really wish you every success.

Cheers
Thanks! It will not make any inconvinent to the customers. Because for my decoder, it will be totally free. BTW, the performance is good yet?
:)

Jack

CruNcher

31st May 2004, 18:54

Originally posted by PegasusJack
Hello CruNcher;
My English is not very good even I lived in North America several years, sothat sometimes, I misunderstood other's saying.
First, we don't relate with Moonlight Ltd, even we did similar Video Codec. So I don't know why you should contact with Moonlight and tell them whether I am an official SDK user of Moonlights Ltd. Here, I represent my company: Pegasus Information Technology Inc., SuZhou. officially announce that all clips posted in www.h-264.com were generated from our H.264 codec, the codec originally provided by Transcodia BJ, and abs no other thrid party involved.
For the logo, our software engineers mistakely adopted that logo in our encoder filter. With few knowledge for copyrights, they assumed that we can use that logo as a temp logo to make the filter more good-look than a plain filter. When it was found, we erased the logo at first time. We apologize it.
Jack

Sorry Jack that i was a little suspicous about this issue looks like i made a mistake on my side hope you can forgive me :(
About what SeeMoreDigital said, that's correct i don't like this behaviour of commercial companies either taking a Open Implemenation and change it in that Way that's not more interoperable is a bad bad thing and will only hurt the Customer in the end i think companies should rethink this "Strategy" or in the end they will get the bill by the customer for it :)

About speed of the Decoder i think libavcodec is a tad faster in this resolutions and doesn't couse as much as cpu utilization as yours.

You said the Decoder will be free, now the question is for what should we use it if it isn't interoperable with other files ?

PegasusJack

1st June 2004, 01:32

Originally posted by CruNcher
Sorry Jack that i was a little suspicous about this issue looks like i made a mistake on my side hope you can forgive me :(
About what SeeMoreDigital said, that's correct i don't like this behaviour of commercial companies either taking a Open Implemenation and change it in that Way that's not more interoperable is a bad bad thing and will only hurt the Customer in the end i think companies should rethink this "Strategy" or in the end they will get the bill by the customer for it :)

About speed of the Decoder i think libavcodec is a tad faster in this resolutions and doesn't couse as much as cpu utilization as yours.

You said the Decoder will be free, now the question is for what should we use it if it isn't interoperable with other files ?
We try to do interoperable H.264 SDK before, but few benifits we get.
Real world is real world. For the speed, I means in H.264 decoders, this codec is one of fastest. Comparison of decoding speed, CPU Op time, and bandwidth. This can be listed on top level.
BTW, thanks your advices, we will promote a compatible H.264 decoder version for free use.:)

Regards!
Jack