Frozen frames when backuping with BIG3

[moita]

I've come up with one big problem since I start to use the big3. In all movies backed up using the big3 guide, I have frozen frames (about 5 in a row) in the movie, but only when played in my standalone DVD player.

Before I post this thread I conducted some experiments and now I know that these frozen frames have 2 sources:
1. Less frequent bad frames when enconding with CCE, which are visible in the computer
2. Frequent random frozen frames originated when muxing with Scenarist, which disappear/appear in other locations anytime I mux again (sometime I have luck and I can get a DVD with none)

Trying to prevent the first kind of problems I underclocked my AMD Thunderbird 1.4 to 1.26 with 120Mhz memory speed, without solving the problem. Temps are about 47-48ºC (34ºC in the case, about 28-29ºC room temperature). May be overheating? It's strange, since it never gave me problems, even when working in temperatures around 52ºC and creating DivX movies.

I think that the second kind of problem concerns the 686B Via Bug since I have an Asus a7v1333 motherboard with the KT133A chip. Actually, when joining two AVI's with nandub, I always got bad frames (analyzing with VirtualDubMod), but since I installed the George's patch, the latest VIA drivers, that particular problem disappeared (and I never detected it anymore so far). But the muxing problem persists.

I'm kind of desperate because I really don't know the source of the problem (hardware or software) and every trial takes me about 6 hours of my precious time. Notice that, after a lot of persistance, I managed to backup movies 100% free of errors.

If you have experienced such problems or have a sugestion, any help is apreciated. Thanks for your help in advance.

My system configuration is:
AMD TB 1.4
384 133Mhz RAM (128 unbranded, 256 kingston)
Asus a7v133 motherboard, bios 1.09
Coolbit activated
2 160Gb WD in RAID 0 (RAID provided by a PCI card)
Soundblaster 128 PCI sound card
VIA 4 in 1 4.43
CCE SP 2.50.01.00
AVISynth 2.54
...

[Trahald]

Run prime95 for a night and see if your pc passes

also.. you may want to upgrade to cce 2.67

check your media.. frozen frames often mean bad media.

id have to say.. ive NEVER had a problem with frozen frames in my big 3 backups. so i dont think its inherent in the method.

[moita]

Thanks for your advice. I will try Prime 95. Does it also test for data integrity? If not, where do I find a program to do data integrity tests?

Definitely, the problem is not from the media, nor from the burner, it burns ok and when trying different medias the result is the same. by the way, I'm using DVD+RW or else I will be bankrupt by now :)

[Trahald]

it just does alot of math calculations and then makes sure the result the computer is delivering is correct. as a cpu and ram heat up this can become inaccurate. this is a great test because basically that is what an encoder does.. lots of math for many hours.

if your pc gets even a single calculation wrong then that means there are problems

also, again.. big3 is built on a solid pro dvd authoring app (scenarist) there will not be frozen frames due to authoring

[moita]

No problems with Prime95 so far (7.5 hours) In the weekend I will try to run it for a longer time.

But really I dont't think that the problem is in the cpu/ram.

If you say, and I believe you, that the programs are solid, then the cause of the problem must be the hard disk or more specifically the PCI bus.

Do you know of some way to test data integrity on massive disk writings without muxing the project again and then watching a 2 hour movie? I'm close to memorize every frame of the movie by seeing it so many times.

[Darklistener]

Why don't you burn it again with lower speed or test your medium.
sometimes if the disc got to hot or something else you can get those errors.

[Eyes`Only]

I agree with thoughts from all of the above. Now for some of my own :)

Have you tried to watch these same movies before burning? Or even better, after encoding, and before even muxing with Scenarist, have you observed these glitches in the post-CCE'd m2v/mpv files? If you haven't, have you observed them after muxing with Scenarist, before burning? And if you still haven't, have you seen them after using imgtool to make an iso, mounting the iso using daemon-tools or alcohol 120%, and playing them thru your virtual drive?

If the glitches exist in any of the prior methods, it's pointing towards software or hardware such as a hard drive. If not, then it points more towards media, and then Darklistener's idea of burning slower or with different media should be taken to heart. I personally burn anything I really want to keep for a long time at 1x, even though I have a 4x burner and 4x blanks. I've personally found more reliability in this method.

[moita]

Eyes'Only, after some more experiments, I agree with you when you say that it should be an hardware problem (as I already suspected from the begining), related with the mentioned VIA 686B bug (I have a KT133A board).

Let's see if can describe the problem clearly to you:
1. The demuxed m2v files from the original movie are ok
2. The mpv files created by CCE present errors, bad frames, but not frozen. They appear as frozen frames in my standalone dvd player (but not in the computer, as the frames appear although with errors). These errors are random, since if I start when I encode the files again, the errors appear but in different places
3. When I mux with scenarist some more errors appear. They are not visible in the computer, only appearing as frozen frames in the dvd player. These errors are also random, since when I mux the project again, they appear in other places.
4. The problem is definitely not from the media, since when I burn the same files twice with different media, the errors appear in the same place, and when I burn two different projects with the same media, the errors appear in different places (I'm using DVD+RW media, book-type set to DVD-ROM)

Summing this up, it appear that it is caused by an hardware problem. But the problem is not in the CPU/memory, since I've run Prime 95 about 8 hours without errors and with CPU temps higher than those I usually get when encoding with CCE.

It remains the famous via 686B Bug, which causes data corruption when transferring large files trough the PCI bus. This may be the case, since I use not one single disk (which should put me away from this bug), but a RAID 0 array in a PCI card controller. However the following procedures were supposed to solve the problem:
- bios update to support 48 bit LBA disks (I have to 160Gb WD)
- same to the PCI card
- update to Win XP SP1 (to support 48 bit LBA)
- latest VIA 4in1 drivers
- latency patch (george breese patch)

Now, the curious thing. Before I have applied these patches/updates, I even get errors joining two AVI's with Nandub (bad frames checked with VirtualDubMod), which never happened again after applying these patches/updates. And more. I'm not 100% sure about this, but before the updates I think that I never get a CCE enconding error and all errors are originated when muxing. Now, CCE give a lot of errors and muxing not (I suspect it has no more errors). I seems that the corruption shifted from large file transfers to small file transfers (ow I even get corrupted subtitles when vobsubing).

Any ideas? Do you know of some program to test for hard disk/PCI data corruption? What is a good configuration (Motherborad, CPU) to use RAID 0?

Thanks for your replys.

[timekills]

As painful as it sounds, you might want to try an encode without using the RAID, if you have an extra hard drive (I presume you wouldn't want to destroy the RAID 0 setup/files...)

That being said, are you using the RAID'ed drive(s)in dynamic allocation in XP? That might help too.

[moita]

The problem is definitely from the RAID. I've separated the HD and do it all again and without errors.

timekills, what a hell is "RAID'ed drive(s)in dynamic allocation in XP"?

[Eyes`Only]

Is it possible to get a different brand of RAID IDE controller? Maybe that controller doesnt work right with your mobo but another would?

I don't know of any good ways to test hdd data transfer, but I think there are some apps that attempt to do so.

[influenza]

is this a typo?

Asus a7v133 motherboard

I have a system with an asus a7v333 myself and never had any problems with the raid setup.

[moita]

No, it is not :( , although in the first thread, I've posted A7V1333.