Any filter for 7.1?

[nanji]

I recently purchased a 7.1 speaker set from creative. If I am not wrong, most AC3 and DTS tracks are 5.1 channel. So I have to switch "5.1 to 7.1 upmix" on my speaker. Is there any filter that generates 7.1 channel? thx

[E-Male]

dolby prologic IIx is for upmixing to 7.1
don't know if it is used in any software yet

it also depends on how the speakers are connected to the PC
i don't know if 7.1 via spdif works

[Soulhunter]

Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES are the only 7.1 formats IIRC !!!

Ok, they dont have really 8 separate channels, but 5.1 with additional info... :rolleyes:


Dont know about this speaker system, has it a integrated 6 -> 8 up-mix function ???

That's not really 7.1 sound then... :(

To output 7.1 stuff you need also a 7.1 soundcard !!!


For the software...

I got a 7.1 capable (decoding) version of PowerDVD with my Soundcard !!!


Bye

[nanji]

I just installed ac3filter_1_01a_rc4. It has these two options: "Dolby Surround/ProL....(Cant read)" and "Dolby Prologic II"(not "IIx"). SO which one would be better or do I have to get a separate one for IIx?

Yes, there is a switch on the speaker that could upmix 5.1 or 6.1 sound to 7.1 but I just don't feel that's gonna generate the right sound from the right channel.

Yes, 7.1 sound card...I bought a Creative Audigy 2 ZS

Currently I am using MPC to play medias. For a 5.1 channel AC3-DVD, only 5 speakers have sound and the 2 side ones don't. Once I turn on 5.1->7.1 switch, all 7 speakers have sound, but it is really hard to tell if the sound from side left&right speakers are "correct".

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by nanji
I just installed ac3filter_1_01a_rc4. It has these two options: "Dolby Surround/ProL....(Cant read)" and "Dolby Prologic II"(not "IIx"). SO which one would be better or do I have to get a separate one for IIx?
Dolby Prologic II then... ;)

But its only to up-mix 2 channel sources (like MP3 n' Audio CD's) to 5.1 !!!

You would need something different for 5.1 -> 7.1 upmixing...

My soundcard does this up-mixing automatically via HW !!!

So its possible that your soundcard can do this conversation also...

Originally posted by nanji
Currently I am using MPC to play medias. For a 5.1 channel AC3-DVD, only 5 speakers have sound and the 2 side ones don't. Once I turn on 5.1->7.1 switch, all 7 speakers have sound, but it is really hard to tell if the sound from side left&right speakers are "correct".
Ok, you have a 7.1 soundcard and a 7.1 speaker system...

But you need also a "real" 7.1 source (Dolby Digital EX or DTS ES) !!!

Otherwise you wont have real "separated" 7.1 sound... :rolleyes:

The 5.1 source would only be up-mixed then (like mono -> stereo...) !!!

And when you have a 7.1 source also, you need a 7.1 decoder (software) as well...

Think Ac3filter will support Dolby Digital EX ans DTS ES decoding soon !!!

IIRC, its also possible to do this decoding via HW directly...

So, IMHO your current config is correct for 5.1 playback on a 7.1 system !!!


Bye

[specise_8472]

I think you guys are getting a bit confused here.

DD-EX and at the moment DTS-ES/EX are 6.1.

The DTS specs allow for as many extra channels as you want. But at the moment there is usually only 1 extra channel. Because there are no commercially available decoders out there, that are in common usuage. I remember reading somewhere that the next big step is going to be 10.1, the same as the theatres. So Sony SDDS etc straight onto DVD.

My amp manual says it is capable of 7.1, but until DPLIIx comes along, which also means new upgrade for amp, 7.1 is just a dream. And anyway DPLIIx will be like Circle Surround and Neo6, just a derived extra channel, not a true 7th channel.

[nanji]

thx guys:rolleyes:

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by specise_8472
I think you guys are getting a bit confused here.

DD-EX and at the moment DTS-ES/EX are 6.1.
Really ???

Thought there where at least some 7.1 Audio DVD's (DVDA)... :confused:

Haven't cared about, coz I have only a 6.1 speaker setup anyway (see my sign) !!!


@ nanji

Sorry, I mixed something up... :o

While Pro Logic II is for 2 -> 5.1 up-mixing, Pro Logic IIx is also for 5.1 -> 7.1 conversations !!!


Bye

[specise_8472]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Really ???

Thought there where at least some 7.1 Audio DVD's (DVDA)... :confused:

Haven't cared about, coz I have only a 6.1 speaker setup anyway (see my sign) !!!



The DVDA specifications only allow for 6 channels at the moment (Correct me if I am wrong). That is 5.1. Go to Minnetonka.com and read the Chrome manual. If I could afford Chrome and Surcode MLP (which does full MLP formats, up to 5.1), I would get them.

There is a lot of talk between Farina and company at the moment about using the .1 channel for a height channel. So you would have 5 speakers as usual and one more above the listener, position to be worked out for best effect. Also if you used the .1 as an extra speaker (a lot of amps will produce full range through the sub channel) you can have a perfect circle of speakers.

[nanji]

The only 7.1 channel audio track I have so far is the sample disc came with my creative sound card.....

[E-Male]

i'm not aware of any 7.1 audio format for consumers

closest you get is "DTS-ES discrete" which has 6.1 audio, which means the 2 back surround speakers are mono
second closest are "DTS-ES matrix" and "Dolby Digital EX" which have 5.1 with encoded information to get 6.1

the only algorithm i know that will output 7.1 is "Dolby ProLogic IIx" which according to Dolby will upmix any source (stereo/dolby surround and 5.1 i assume) to 7.1

again anybody feel free to correct me

[planet1]

Hi there,

arent 5.1 (or 6.1) enough ???

anyway the MPEG 2 Multichannel specs allowed a 7.1 (non discrete) extension on DVD.

Though i dont know of any DVD which had such an audio stream (the few which used mpeg2 audio were in 5.1), and more importantly a hardware 7.1 decoder - this "overloaded" audio format was possible and planned.

So when Mpeg2 audio was finally dumped in favour of AC-3 (in Europe)- the 7.1 extensions were discarded too.

If someone wants to play and test a bit:


5.1 Mpeg 2 Audio :

http://hypercube.is.dreaming.org/ (HyperCube Transcoder 3.0.4)

7.1 Mpeg 2 Audio :

http://www.licensing.philips.com/ordering/soft/documents343.html (Philips MPEG Audio Tools @ the bottom of the page)


NOTICE:

Dolby Pro Logic IIx (7.1 matrix)
http://www.dolby.com/Consumer/Technologies/PLIIx/

---> 2 Surround Back Channels


MPEG-2 Multichannel Audio (7.1 partially discrete)
http://hypercubemx.free.fr/html/the_audio_formats_jungle.html

---> 2 Front Center Channels


I wonder what additional channel DTS might choose when they go 7.1 ;) ?

[E-Male]

2 centers?? that's news to me


i know that SDDS 8.1 has 5 front channels and 2 surrounds

and pro logic IIx has 3 front, 2 surround and 2 back surrounds


so mpeg has 4 front channels??

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( why does everyone have to make his own setup, why can't they agree on a standart once :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[Sycho]

Originally posted by E-Male
2 centers?? that's news to me


i know that SDDS 8.1 has 5 front channels and 2 surrounds

and pro logic IIx has 3 front, 2 surround and 2 back surrounds


so mpeg has 4 front channels??

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( why does everyone have to make his own setup, why can't they agree on a standart once :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
2 extra centres, ie left, left centre, centre, right centre, right.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by specise_8472
The DVDA specifications only allow for 6 channels at the moment (Correct me if I am wrong).Hmm... (http://www.surroundassociates.com/newformats.html) :confused:

MPEG-2 Audio, which can be configured either six channel (5.1) or eight channel (7.1) at 48/16, is also an optional compression scheme but hardly used (especially in the US) due to lack of decoders in the marketplace.

Bye

[specise_8472]

Originally posted by E-Male
i'm not aware of any 7.1 audio format for consumers

closest you get is "DTS-ES discrete" which has 6.1 audio, which means the 2 back surround speakers are mono
second closest are "DTS-ES matrix" and "Dolby Digital EX" which have 5.1 with encoded information to get 6.1


Sorry, DTS-ES discrete is full 6.1 channel. The rear 3 channels are DISCRETE. And I have several disks that confirm this, plus the specs confirm this. DD EX, which you are right is Matrixed.
Also the DTS specs allow for as many extension channels as needed. Upto an unlimited number.

I happen to have test tracks that test out your speakers in DTS-ES and DD-EX. They are full 6.1 soundtracks.

[Sycho]

Also the DTS specs allow for as many extension channels as needed. Upto an unlimited number.
No. The current DTS specs only allow for 2 extra channels

[E-Male]

Originally posted by specise_8472
Sorry, DTS-ES discrete is full 6.1 channel. The rear 3 channels are DISCRETE. And I have several disks that confirm this, plus the specs confirm this. DD EX, which you are right is Matrixed.
Also the DTS specs allow for as many extension channels as needed. Upto an unlimited number.

I happen to have test tracks that test out your speakers in DTS-ES and DD-EX. They are full 6.1 soundtracks.

you missunderstood me, with "back surround" i mean only the 2 speaker behind you, not the 2 right/left to you (which are the "surround" speakers)

and the 2 behind are mono (plus the 2 surround spreaker which are stereo we got the 3 channles you mean)

[E-Male]

Originally posted by sycho
2 extra centres, ie left, left centre, centre, right centre, right.

so it's similar to SDDS

[DSP8000]

"If I could afford Chrome"
I think everyone who's interested in DVD-A can afford Diskwelder"bronze" (http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/news/2003/july/discWelderBRONZE.html)one of the cheapest DVD-A authoring solutions on the market.
Considering there are only few available to the "normal" customers.

DSP8000

[Sycho]

Originally posted by E-Male
so it's similar to SDDS
actually 70mm

[specise_8472]

Originally posted by DSP8000
"If I could afford Chrome"
I think everyone who's interested in DVD-A can afford Diskwelder"bronze" (http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/news/2003/july/discWelderBRONZE.html)one of the cheapest DVD-A authoring solutions on the market.
Considering there are only few available to the "normal" customers.

DSP8000

As I said Chrome + Surcode MLP.
Bronze does not handle MLP.
So unless you get the MLP encoder and Chrome, forget about it. Might as well use normal DVD-V and use DTS or DD.

[specise_8472]

Originally posted by sycho
No. The current DTS specs only allow for 2 extra channels

If you read the current ETSI V1.2.1 specs there is already provision for 8 channels + LFE, in two configurations. That is 3 extra.
And if you read the US patent for DTS, it plainly states that there is provision in the specs to increase the number as needed.

[Sycho]

Originally posted by specise_8472
If you read the current ETSI V1.2.1 specs there is already provision for 8 channels + LFE, in two configurations. That is 3 extra.
And if you read the US patent for DTS, it plainly states that there is provision in the specs to increase the number as needed.
the current decoders can only have a stream with two extensions or high frequency extention

edit: • Core Audio:
- Up to 5 primary audio channels (frequency components below 24 kHz).
- Up to 1 low frequency effect (LFE) channel.
- Optional information such as time stamps and user information.
• Extended Audio:
- Up to 2 additional full bandwidth channels (frequency components below 24 kHz).
- Frequency components above 24 kHz for the primary and extended audio channels.