Which of the CCE backup solutions would you recommend ?

[iparout]

Hi there.

I am buying a DVD Writer tomorrow and 've already been thinking about how to make DVD backups. After much searching and reading on the forums, I decided to start doing my DVD backups with CCE, because of the better quality this method gives... In the guides, there are the following backup options using CCE :

Quality over Speed (using CCE)
- using DVDMaestro - by Trilight, last updated 07/21/02
- using DVD Rebuilder (CCE) - last updated 04/15/2004
- using Scenarist NT - last updated 05/15/03
- using Scenarist NT, advanced procedures - last updated 05/15/03
- using Scenarist NT & the big 3 (DoItFast4U, DoCCE4U & ReAuthorist) - last updated 05/28/03
- using Scenarist NT & the big 3 new (DoItFast4U, BatchCCEWS, ScenAid & NuMenu4U) - last updated 04/19/2004

Which of the above would you guys recommend for someone who wants a *full* DVD backup of his movies to 4.7 GB DVD+R ?

And can someone please tell me the basic differences between all of the above methods ? They all use CCE, so the quality should almost be the same, right ?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[MedicineMan]

DVD Rebuilder

[ShaneZ]

Yeah, there will probably be as many opinions on this as there are people. :) If you want to learn how to do high quality backups and spend some time understanding the process, I would suggest DIF4U!.

If you just want a good, fast, high quality backup DVD-RB sounds like a good choice.

It all depends on what you want and how much time you are willing to put into the learning process.

Hope that helped,

Shane

[Trahald]

i would do the new big3 guide.. although you may want to browse through the other guides anyways

as per rebuilder.. its still beta and although people are using it for daily backups there are still enough error reports that you may want to hold off on it. its an excellent application (the author jdobbs made the ifoupdate app that is part of big3) When the authoring code is more stable and you are looking for an easy cce based backup method itll fit the bill. big3 is for the enthusiast willing to put more time into the backup process to get excellent quality, based on a solid authoring app (scenarist), and have more control over the process.

[influenza]

I'm using the big3 method for quite some time and I'm quite happy with it. It has a steep learning curve though, so a certain amount of effort is required (especially when you start).

Dvd-RB is theoretically a great and very promising program. But like Trahald said it's still in it's beta stage. For me it doesn't offer enough flexibility and versatility at the moment, but that might change soon. It beats the big3 method in simplicity, no doubt about that.

So for now if you go for highest quality backups with total control and flexibility go for the big3. If you want a simple program that still can yield good quality try dvd-rb.

Forget about the other guides you mentioned, they are quite old (fashioned)

[iparout]

Originally posted by influenza
I'm using the big3 method for quite some time and I'm quite happy with it. It has a steep learning curve though, so a certain amount of effort is required (especially when you start).

Dvd-RB is theoretically a great and very promising program. But like Trahald said it's still in it's beta stage. For me it doesn't offer enough flexibility and versatility at the moment, but that might change soon. It beats the big3 method in simplicity, no doubt about that.

So for now if you go for highest quality backups with total control and flexibility go for the big3. If you want a simple program that still can yield good quality try dvd-rb.

Forget about the other guides you mentioned, they are quite old (fashioned)

Just to make sure, you're talking about the big3 guide which is last in the list, right ? (updated 4/19/2004). Not the one updated on 5/28/2003.

And BTW, how much time does it take you from start to end with this method ? (and I mean from ripping the DVD to your HDD until burning it on a DVD+R).

[wmansir]

Most of the time is spent encoding, which is heavily dependent on the power of your system. It also depends on the source, and what filters or methods are needed to encode it (IVTC or Deinterlacing could increase encoding time by 40% or more).

I have a AthlonXP 1900+ system, it's getting a bit old, and get about 1.9 real time on the most basic encodes (so a 2 hour movie takes just over an hour to encode one pass). Here are my estimated times for a 2 hour movie, no extras,:

Rip DVD to ISO: 15 minutes.
Mount and have DIF4U demux: 20-30 minutes.
Run Reauthorist, Tweak stuff:2-20 minutes, usually only 5 minutes unless the source is difficult (lots of extras). The extra time isn't really necessary unless your a perfectionist like me. You could set DIF4U to start encoding automatically, but it's good to do basic checks before you start hours of encoding.
"3" pass encode: 5 hours (because it is actually 4 passes).
Import script to Scenarist: 10-30+ minutes. Depends on number of subtitles mostly. I keep all subs so there were usually 3 tracks (x2 for widescreen and letterbox). That takes about 30 minutes. If you didn't have any subs it would just scan the video which takes about 5-10 minutes.
Create output with Scenarist: 20-40 minutes. Again, dependent on the number of subs. I also use 2 drives to output (one has a temp directory), so that speeds things up a little.
IfoUpdate, verify stuff, ect: 5 minutes.


So were looking at a grand total of around 7 hours +/- 30 minutes, but most of that time is spent waiting for the computer to do something, not working. The amount of time you actually put in, once you got the process down, depends a lot on the complexity of the disc and how much you like to tweak things. It could be anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours.

This is for the 'old' method, the new method could take a bit longer if NuMenu needs to redo a large menu.

[jptheripper]

In response to last post

i have a p3 1ghz with 1.5b ram (for comparison) and only a dvd burner (no rom)

1. rip dvd to iso - 30 -60 mins
2. mount and deumx - 30-45 mins
3. reauthorist etc.. same
4. 4 pass (actually 5) encode - 18- 24 hours depending on movie length (100% cpu), cant do anything else
5. scenarist output - if it works - same
6. ifoupdate - same

burn to rw to test (skip once comfortable)
burn to r

total - up to 26-28 hours per disk

[influenza]

18- 24 hours

wow that's quite slow.

But this clearly states that there isn't a single answer to this question. Depending on your system it can be quite 'fast' (around 8 hours is normal for me) to very slow.

And as stated above: most of the time no interaction is required. i usually run encoding overnight.

[jptheripper]

yeah well 1 ghz p3 is really the low end of what most have.. but if he has a slow system like me i didnt want him to get too optomistic

[influenza]

Well in comparison to any 'one-click' transcoder CCe encoding is slow anyway. I personally don't care about the 8 hours (amd xp 2100+/1GB RAM) as I encode while I sleep. 18 hours would be too much for me. That reminds me of one pass divx encoding on my p3-450 :D

[wmansir]

Oh, I should mention something about this step:

Mount and have DIF4U demux: 20-30 minutes.

That's the normal time, or the time using he latest (closed) beta version (1.4.1 or greater) for a by VOBid project. If you were to do a by VOBid disc with the currently released version (1.4.0) this step could take significantly longer because of the way subs are ripped. For instance, when I did Aliens it took 12+ hours just to demux. If I would have realized it took so long at the time, I would have just dumped all the subs. I ended up going to bed when it was still working and when I woke up it was still ripping subs. Fortunately the vast majority of DVDs don't need to be done by VOBid.

Version 1.4.1 changed the way subs are ripped in by VOBid projects, so it only takes minutes instead of hours.

(ps. In case you haven't noticed, processing subs is a real pain. One of the best things about DVD Rebuilder is that it just copies the sub streams directly from the original VOBS, so even fancy animated subs come out perfect, and it doesn't take noticeably longer than no subs at all.)

[iparout]

Well, I'm starting to feel a bit discouraged about the hours needed in order to learn the procedure, but I hope it's worth it... Maybe I'll just start off with DVD Rebuilder to get accustomed to DVD backup (it's my first time) and then go from there to more complicated solutions.

One quickie question though, although I know that this cannot be answered that easy : if the "using Scenarist NT & the big 3 new" method yields a movie quality of 10/10, how much would you say the DVD Rebuilder scores, qualitywise ? And I mean in normal ~2 hour movies, not in specific situations like the Godfather or LOTR, where, as far as I have understood, the big3 method would be by far the best.

[jptheripper]

rebuilder uses the same encoder (assuming cce) as big 3, so it will also be 10/10, however, it is still beta so there may be glitches, and it cant handle all movies

[iparout]

Originally posted by jptheripper
...and it cant handle all movies

Can you please explain that a little more ? How can it not handle all movies ? Sorry if this sounds stupid but I've absolutely zero experience with the program.

Thanks.

[jptheripper]

right now it cannot do any movies with seemless branching or with multiple angles..

[wmansir]

To expand on that a little more,

Seamless branching is usually used for discs that contain more than one version of the film (like T2:Ultimate Edition, which contains 3 versions of the film, Theatrical, Directors and Extended). Angles are similar, they contain alternative footage of the same scene. Angles are most commonly used to display the credits in 3 different languages, depending on what audio track is selected or the player settings. That method is used on most Disney titles. It is also used sometimes to show a 'storyboard slideshow' of a scene, or the rough footage in animation.

DVD-RB can't do those titles, yet, but will detect them and prevent you from proceeding. Also, the types of discs that DVD-RB can't do are like those that I mentioned in my last post. They have to be done "by VOBid", which is even more complicated than your standard Big3 job. It use to be much more work, but new tools like Scenaid, and improvements in DIF4U, make it a lot easier. Still, I wouldn't recommend it to beginners in the Big3 process.

But you should be very aware that DVD-RB is beta and what that means. If you just want to make backups for the hardware you have now, and aren't worried that it may have problems with future hardware you may buy, I would try a couple of test discs and, if everything works well on your setup, continue to use it. But don't be suprised when a bug is revealed and you find all your backups have it (like the playback clock isn't right, or playback is messed up on your friends player). Personally, I started using it for my backups only a couple of versions ago because it had major issues with my player that were fixed.