Animation in your country! Tell us! Make your Homeland proud of you!

[pogo stick]

I am becoming a fan of animation! I'm not saying cartoons, because many BIG fans (especially otaku :D) don't like this word. I always liked animation, but now I am interested even more then when I was a kid. :)
Unfortunately, now situation with Russian animation is not very joyful. :( Only uncommercial ones, very good though. Only one TV series (similar to 'The Simpsons'). But there are still many great ones for the past (15 and so on year ago). I will never get tired of these.
I love anime very much! I envy Japanese a little. Oh, who am I kidding? A lot! :D
American 'The Simpsons' and 'Futurama' are great! 'South Park' is totally crazy (in a good way)! And also there are many American animated pictures in Russia. More then Russian on DVDs. :(
And I know French 'Asterix And Obelix'. Which is also great!
To my shame that's all I can remember. When I was a kid there were some good pictures from Eastern Europe. But I can't remember titles clearly.
I know that this forum have many members from all over the world. So, please, tell everyone what do you think is the best in animation of your country! And, please, try to translate titles to English too, so if I would see something in shops I would be able to recognize it. :)
Thank you in advance.

[Mug Funky]

"Harvery Crumpet" won an oscar for best animated short or something like that. the guy who made it lives in St. Kilda, lucky bugger (kinda like Melbourne's Venice Beach, but cold all the time:)).

unfortunately not much animation really comes out of Australia though. there's kid's shows that are usually animated in Flash, but unfortunately most TV shows here are made simply to meet quota (ie. there's legislation that says free-to-air TV in Aus must have at least 55% Australian content. this is the only rule that stops us having "Law and Order" and "Paradise Hotel" and boring crap like that 24/7 instead of 11/7).

i know some good animators though... they haven't "made it" yet :p

[edit]

i too envy the japanese in this respect - they must have a production environment set up such that it's cheaper to animate a show then to shoot it (is it cheaper to pay actors for ADR then on-screen work? i've no idea really).

[smok3]

it's cheaper to animate a show then to shoot it uhmm, well iam not really into anime, but i thought most of them are like 3 frames/s, i guess thats why they are cheap? (or you two are talking about some different anime?)

[Neo Neko]

Actually it is not any cheaper. The Japanese have an intreguing culture. Which anime and manga have become and integral part. In any other country of the world animation is viewed as childrens entertainment and automatically assigned a pre-concieved stigma. And only very rarely do any get wide spread adult audiences and they tend to be only the most assenine of shows. Don't get me wrong I like the Simpsons, Futurama, Family Guy, and South Park. But in terms of actual animation they are not really shining examples. In fact untill rather recently most animation produced in the US was largely an embarasment. Cookie cutter stuff with simple outlines. Standard Cartoon Network original content. Blech.

In Japan animation is a bigger industry than their live action film productions. And their animation also gets treatment that other countries reserve only for their best live action films. They don't make it on the cheap. And the voice actors get paid well. More people there tend to aspire to be voice actors there than actual actors. ;) Better pay and more work. Every age group and social class in Japan watches anime and reads manga. Even the CEOs and presidents of big corporations. There is no baseless stigma against animation there. Not to say that they don't have some odd stigmas that are actually making it hard for couples to meet and raise families over there and other such activities. And at the same time they have such liberal views about extramarital sex. [It's actually socially acceptable so long as you pay for it! :eek: The real trick is getting married first.] And Japan's sexual stigmas actually play into the popularity of animations and comics for adults! In Japan it is illegal to show non-masked naughty bits in any legal publication. Especially those containing actual photos and particularly explicit ones. But those restrictions get relaxed a bit when it comes to animation and comics. Especially those involving a human and non-human partner. [tenticle hentai anyone?] It makes for some really strange stuff!

If you are not from Japan or have never lived there just trying to figure it out will make your head hurt. They have their reasons. But they are rarely clear to westerners, europeans, and even other cultures on the nearby asian continent. They are the great adopters. They have built a distinct culture by adopting and adapting concepts from foriegn cultures. Even in areas like religeon. It's been that way since the beginning of their recorded history and quite possibly before. If ever anyone had a different drummer to march to. Not that I don't find taiko kinda catchy. :p

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by smok3
uhmm, well iam not really into anime, but i thought most of them are like 3 frames/s, i guess thats why they are cheap? (or you two are talking about some different anime?)

As in any country there are different grades of animation. You have the half assed animation attempts like pokemon and even Dragonball/Z/GT etc. Then you have truly magnificent unparalelled achievements in animation that no other country can honestly match. Things like Akira and Ghost In The Shell etc.

[leadman584]

The Japanese are definitely the masters of anime. While I have both Akira and Ghost on disk, thanks to Neo, I still prefer FF spirits within as my favorite anime. They have many TV shows that are interesting anime, even that annoying girl and her big mouthed pal......lol. And I didn't wet my pants.

[Mug Funky]

hmm... thanks for the insight neo. i'm on a student budget, but if i had a liesurely income i'd definitely check out japan.

besides, even animations that are 10fps are extremely well made. consider the complexity the characters - sure they have schematized faces, standard ways to draw bodies, etc, but even so the amount of work in 10 anime frames would equal 2 minutes of early disney (tell me mickey mouse was hard to animate? a couple of circles? ouch, my head).

[edit]

FF sprirts within? worst dialog EVER. but it's got some of the most beautiful animation ever as well. take a screenshot from practically any scene and you've got yourself a work of art in it's own right.

real pity about the dialog. perhaps it's better in japanese? (if it's anything like Ghost in the Shell, they dumbed down the english dub considerably - almost to the point where it's a different movie! i find it kind of insulting to be honest, but dubs have got much better since then. they just need to work on the voices :))

[joshyg2]

its funny, how we in Australia love Japanese Anime, and so to in The States, and we watch it all the time (persionally), but when you go over to Japan, they love American animation, like The Simpsons, and boy do they love Disney, its all Mickey Mouse over there.

i have always been facinated about japanese animimation since i was a kid, because of the amount of detail, and how they drew facial expressions, eyes, and especially the bodies (wink wink). And you see people over here practacing japanese animation, and how to draw it etc, but when you go over to japan (they draw their own anime) but they also practice drawing Disney characters and such.

[SoonUDie]

I also agree that most traditional American animation is crappy... but every so often, a gem comes along... like Invader Zim :D Definately a unique style, and sinfully funny. It seems that a lot of the popular kids cartoons we get nowadays are dumbed-down Japanese imports like "Pokemon" and "Yu-Gi-Oh!". But when you start talking about movies, there’s also no denying that we’re the kings of computer animation, with such masterpieces as Shrek, Finding Nemo, etc., thanks to Pixar and the like. We also do pretty decently in traditional animation thanks to Disney, but Disney caters exclusively to children, and definitely has a different animation style than anime.

With Japanese anime, however, you always have at least 2 or 3 great shows running. Also, you have a huge amount of older, out of syndication stuff that it would take years to go through. This is probably thanks to the position anime has in Japan, as Neo Neko described. Not only are there simply more animated shows there than anywhere else, but they also cover every genre imaginable. One of my favorite recent shows was PLANTES, a realistic sci-fi show set less than a hundred years from now (it just finished airing a week or two ago). On the flip side, I also like blatantly unrealistic shows like Naruto (ninjas with superpowers), Full Metal Alchemist (think magic in a Europe-like setting in the 1800s), etc. This is possible with anime, but not really with any other type of animation.

As far as framerate goes, calling something 3 or 10 fps is really not correct. Skilled animators alternate animating different objects in a scene in order to achieve up to 24 unique frames per second, even if the background is only animated at 10, the characters at 3, etc. Many animes combine things like full-framerate pans and zooms with low-fps animation.

[duartix]

"Samurai Jack" is very cool even though it's a straight kids cartoon.

[mf]

Originally posted by pogo stick
So, please, tell everyone what do you think is the best in animation of your country!
Since my homeland is known for its piratry in the 16th/17th century, I'd have to say pirated animation :devil:.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by mf
Since my homeland is known for its piratry in the 16th/17th century...I thought its known for this coffeeshops... :D


Bye

[pogo stick]

I have seen "Les Triplettes de Belleville" recently. It's French animation film. And I am totally amazed! It's GREAT! :) Sometimes it's funny, sometimes sad. Very original and full of little details which makes every character alive! I highly recommend it to everyone who didn't see it!
Can anyone, who is familiar with French animation, comment about it with connection to other French animation or even recommend some good ones?

[Mug Funky]

Tintin is Belgian isn't it? i guess that's close enough ;) i don't know much French stuff.

there's an Italian one worth mentioning. childhood favourite of mine called "Allegro non troppo". like a '70s Italian pisstake on Fantasia.

it contains perhaps the saddest and most beautiful scene ever animated. anyone who's seen it will know what i mean.

as for Australian animation, well there's what i mentioned above. i think a lot of Hanna-Barberra stuff was animated here. cheap labour, no doubt :)

also, CG effects in movies are getting bigger here, thanks to the likes of Animal Logic et al. too bad it's all happening in Sydney, and the movies are being shot in New Zealand (LOTR... the matrices were shot in sydney).

there's lots of small-time animators around, but not much that makes it into the mainstream.

[neo75903]

FF sprirts within? worst dialog EVER. but it's got some of the most beautiful animation ever as well. take a screenshot from practically any scene and you've got yourself a work of art in it's own right.


I loved that movie, but i have to aknowledge that the story line was to asian myth oriented which is hard to understand for the western.
Idd each frame is an piece of art on its own, it was revolutionair in terms of face expression at that time.
We come to a point that power pcs can almost render such movies in realtime.

[fccHandler]

Uh, my countryman Walt Disney was the god of animation. ;)

[dragongodz]

i think a lot of Hanna-Barberra stuff was animated here. cheap labour, no doubt
or for a more modern example, most of the lion king 2 movie was actually animated here in Australia. a fact most dont probably know. :)

too bad it's all happening in Sydney
not strictly true. theres 1 from Tasmania(a state of Aus for those who dont know) thats up for awards in Europe at the moment. too early in the morning to think of what its called. ;)

[neo75903]

i though a belgian student won that award?

edit:
Dont know if you guys ever seen it, but "shin chang" is kinda hilarious. It is about little kiddy who can be erm verry annoying :)

[dragongodz]

heres what i was thinking of
http://www.blue-rocket.com.au/

go to the news section. specifically time cracks(the first series) i remember was meant to be getting international distribution etc.
there is another animation studio here but i cant remember what its called offhand. so much is kids stuff i dont really follow it. :)

[shevegen]

"You have the half assed animation attempts like pokemon and even Dragonball/Z/GT etc."

I can not tell you how much I hate these.
Not only are they so static - makes you think they are too lazy to draw pictures - but the storylines were so rubbish.

[jggimi]

It's kind of amazing. People have been discussing "American animation" and using Simpsons / Family Guy / Futurama as examples. If I'm not mistaken, these were outsourced to Korean animation shops.

The history of American animation really began with Disney's Steamboat Willie, and Disney's influence on animation as a "children's medium" in popular culture has continued to be leave its mark. Even though Warner Brothers produced hundreds of shorts in the 1940s and 1950s for use along side theatrical releases aimed at adults. Today, those shorts are broadcast on TV to child audiences in the U.S.

In the 70s and into today, there has been theatrically released animation aimed at adult markets, or teenage markets (Heavy Metal, Fritz the Cat, Bakshi's version of Lord of the Rings, Final Fantasy, etc.) but these have never been as commercially successful as animated films aimed at children. The ones that seem to be the most successful are aimed at children but have a story, or humor and wit, of interest to their parents. Disney's Aladdin or The Lion King are excellent examples of this.

When I think of the current acme of American animation, I think first of Pixar and Dreamworks SKB, two rival computer animation companies that have both produced a series of successful feature films... these follow Disney's example: they aim at children, with humor or story designed to entertain their parents.

[Mug Funky]

static and money-saving animation is forgivable if the story is damn good and well written. look at "azumanga daioh". i laugh so hard at that you'd think i was on a nitrous binge (but none of my friends seem to get it :().

invader zim rocks the house, too. as does Home Movies and Dr. Katz.

...too bad none of these are aussie :(
hmm. "rocko's modern life" had a wallaby as a main character, and the Simpsons came here once (boy, was that ever a realistic portrayal... you'd think from watching that that we're all beer-swilling yobs... HAHA! that's toooootally not true...)

[dragongodz]

also low budget tv shows such as pokemon shouldnt be considered anything more than it is, cheap childrens entertainment.

try watching some anime movies and you will see some of them are stunning. metropolis(the anime), Wings of Honneamise etc are NOTHING like the made for tv shows.

It's kind of amazing. People have been discussing "American animation" and using Simpsons / Family Guy / Futurama as examples. If I'm not mistaken, these were outsourced to Korean animation shops
this also happens with anime(especially cheap tv shows) aswell. as i already said most of the lion king 2 movies animation was done here in Aus aswell. :)

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by jggimi
It's kind of amazing. People have been discussing "American animation" and using Simpsons / Family Guy / Futurama as examples. If I'm not mistaken, these were outsourced to Korean animation shops.

You are not mistaken. But that does not make it any less valid. It is drawn with what would be more considdered a typical american style. Techniques etc. The storylines and plots are also directed mostly at americans. And the creators/producers are all americans selling to an american audience. If the Koreans were doing more than fill frames on the projects I would agree that they were not good examples. The firtst several episodes at least of Harvey Birdman were largely animated in Korea as well. And I believe the Venture Brothers are still largely animated in Korea. But I don't think Koreans in Korea would get the humor very well.

[pogo stick]

Originally posted by Mug Funky
Tintin is Belgian isn't it? i guess that's close enough ;)
I didn't see it. But if I am not mistaken more then 10 years ago there was a chewing gum called something like "Tintin" with little inlayed comics that kids collected like postage stamp. I always wondered who was that Tintin. Now I see. Or I confused something again? :)
Originally posted by jggimi
It's kind of amazing. People have been discussing "American animation" and using Simpsons / Family Guy / Futurama as examples. If I'm not mistaken, these were outsourced to Korean animation shops.
Matt Groening said about Simpsons: "All the creative work is done in Los Angeles, but the inking and painting and camera work is done in Korea."
So Neo Neko is right.
I even read somewhere that Korean painters once called by phone at night (because of the time difference) to animation director in US to ask how to draw Marge firing the gun. Guns are not allowed in Korea. And he explained how details of this process should look like.
Originally posted by jggimi
The history of American animation really began with Disney's Steamboat Willie, and Disney's influence on animation as a "children's medium" in popular culture has continued to be leave its mark. Even though Warner Brothers produced hundreds of shorts in the 1940s and 1950s for use along side theatrical releases aimed at adults. Today, those shorts are broadcast on TV to child audiences in the U.S.
I like old stuff with Donald, Mickey, Pluto and others. And most of shorts from that time. But recent Disney's company TV series are just weary.
Few years ago in Russia almost all animation on TV was American stuff for children. Now it's getting a little more various, but still most of the children are growing not seeing native animation. :(
Originally posted by Mug Funky
static and money-saving animation is forgivable if the story is damn good and well written. look at "azumanga daioh". i laugh so hard at that you'd think i was on a nitrous binge (but none of my friends seem to get it :().
I liked "Azumanga daioh" a lot too! So funny! :)
I wonder why anime is still not much on TV here. Large otaku groups are almost in every city and more people are getting to know what anime is, but still not too popular as I think it should be. Is it different in other countries?

And, by the way, plus side of static animation is it's a lot easier encode to smaller file sizes.
DeDup is dropping almost half of frames in Simpsons.
Originally posted by dragongodz
try watching some anime movies and you will see some of them are stunning. metropolis(the anime), Wings of Honneamise etc are NOTHING like the made for tv shows.
Metropolis is Great! So detailed! I loved it!
And design of character is little unusual for anime. I know they are all different, but this one is more different to others. And it somehow reminds me some very old Russian animation.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by pogo stick
I like old stuff with Donald, Mickey, Pluto and others. And most of shorts from that time. But recent Disney's company TV series are just weary.

Yes the older work was excelent. Original and very heavily infuenced by the time period. But thanks to Mr. Eisner, Disney the world famous animation company no longer does animation. He has found that there is no need to create new stuff when you can just extend copyright retroactively as needed to live off Walt's corpse forever more. As such the only Disney magic that exists today is marketing magic. Mr. Eisner has not ruined the companies reputation enough to make the characters unmarketable.

Originally posted by pogo stick
I liked "Azumanga daioh" a lot too! So funny! :)
I wonder why anime is still not much on TV here. Large otaku groups are almost in every city and more people are getting to know what anime is, but still not too popular as I think it should be. Is it different in other countries?

Large "home" groups eh? I have known quite a few japanese who either got quite a laugh or were utterly perplexed at the usage of the word to express oneself as a japanese media fan. Well things are slowly getting better over here. Cartoon Network is making great strides even if all they show is highly altered dubed content. And ADV the anime price gouging, dialog rapeing release company here in the US has started an Anime Network. Which while not yet actively offered on TWC here has a random collection of shows avalible on demand.

[Mug Funky]

Metropolis is Great! So detailed! I loved it!
And design of character is little unusual for anime. I know they are all different, but this one is more different to others. And it somehow reminds me some very old Russian animation.

it wont seem so different if you look at the other Tezuka stuff. it's very distinctive (it always reminded me of the character on the Monopoly board game). Tezuka characters are all big legs, big noses and round heads :)

[edit]

Neo: is that what "otaku" means? hehe.

btw, good description of ADV. i don't know enough Japanese to be able to see just what they do to the dialog, but i find myself correcting the subs quite often while watching. the australian stuff comes here via america, so we're quite familiar with ADV, FUNimation, etc. quality seems to vary from show-to-show, though.

[dragongodz]

t wont seem so different if you look at the other Tezuka stuff
yep. though he was already dead when metropolis was made but it is based on his manga. and from what i read(or heard, i cant remember now) Katsuhiro Otomo purposfully wanted to retain, but slightly update, the Tezuka style.
for example that most people would know just look at astro boy and kimba the white line, both Tezuka creations made back in the 60's. you can see the same style though not quite as polished(maybe) as metropolis. :)

umm way off topic ? :D

oh and as for otaku
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku

[jggimi]

... If the Koreans were doing more than fill frames on the projects I would agree that they were not good examples...

...Matt Groening said about Simpsons: "All the creative work is done in Los Angeles, but the inking and painting and camera work is done in Korea."...My point was that the animation work is outsourced because it is not core to the products' market value.

The Simpson's has just started its sixteenth season. The writing continues to be fresh and imaginative. But the animation has never been key to this show's success, and I probably should have been clearer about my points in my earlier post. These are not quality examples of animation. Often great TV, yes, but not industry leading artwork.

As to the Korean outsourcers: the're doing a significant portion of the animation under U.S. direction, including all inbetween work. The animators receive more than storyboard -- they get key frame drawings, soundtracks, and timing, but the work they do is far more than fill frames. The apocryphal story about Mark Kirkland being asked how to draw a firearm for Marge, that Pogo Stick mentioned, denotes their level of responsibility.

http://www.simpsonsfolder.com/production/visual.html
http://www.snpp.com/other/articles/goesglobal.html

[filewalker]

I (and I think my whole generation) was influenced here in Austria from:

Maya the honey bee (http://www.nipponanimation.com/catalogue/002/) (and here (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1415))

and "Vicke the little viking" (http://www.pelleas.net/dbman/db.cgi?db=wmt&uid=default&ID=032&view_records=1)

But both are not from Austria...both are from "Zuiyo Enterprise", later called "Nippon Animation"

I'm still enjoying them if I'm watching them by chance inTV.

Cu filewalker

[pogo stick]

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Large "home" groups eh? I have known quite a few japanese who either got quite a laugh or were utterly perplexed at the usage of the word to express oneself as a japanese media fan.
Do you mean that "otaku" is not appropriate word? Interesting, then how does it get this meaning? I only hope that it is not offensive for anyone. If it is then I should stop using it. :confused:
Originally posted by jggimi
The Simpson's has just started its sixteenth season. The writing continues to be fresh and imaginative. But the animation has never been key to this show's success, and I probably should have been clearer about my points in my earlier post. These are not quality examples of animation. Often great TV, yes, but not industry leading artwork.
You right about that. "The Simpsons" is not the most detailed animation. But "South Park" is! :D No, just kidding. But seriously "Futurama" is not bad quality at all for TV series. They even combined 2D and 3D stuff a lot. Design of characters is pretty close to "The Simpsons", but very original and in my opinion Bender is the one who should stay in animation history like Mickey Mouse. Bender is latest who was allowed to smoke, drink and steal on TV in the prime time all over the world that often. I hope we will see his "shiny metal ass" in new episodes ("With blackjack and hookers!" :D) someday. To bad that show was canceled. :(
Originally posted by filewalker
I (and I think my whole generation) was influenced here in Austria from:
Maya the honey bee (http://www.nipponanimation.com/catalogue/002/) (and here (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1415))

So "Maya the honey bee" is anime? I am surprised. I thought it's German. If I remember it right version that was on Russian TV was translated form German language. It's actually not my type of show, but I would like to see it again. It was so long time ago that I can hardly recall it.

[dragongodz]

Do you mean that "otaku" is not appropriate word? Interesting, then how does it get this meaning?
look at the link i already posted. it explains its modern usage as japanese slang etc.

[neo75903]

http://takureihp.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Princess-azumanga.html