subtitle issue with rebuilder

[brynolf]

Hi!
First of all I want to state that jdobbs have done a terrific job on dvd rebuilder and I want to make sure he gets all the praises (and money) he deserves. But after my first use of dvd rebuilder I had a subtitle issue.

When trying the dvd on WinDVD the subtitles are shown. The subtitles are also shown on one of my standalone players. On my other player however, no subtitles are shown. I can cycle through all of the languages via the remote, but still no subtitles. Anyone else had any subtitle problems?

[quantum]

Several others have reported this problem. I guess jdobbs hasn't figured this one out yet. What is the standalone make and model that doesn't show subs?

[Fastolfe]

Me too, did my first conversion this weekend almost fully successfully.

I have also experienced this subtitle problem with my Samsung M405 (2.5 years old material) but all is OK with another Samsung 224 (8 months old).

I have the feeling this is a firmware issue ;-(

FF

[Tobytl]

Well, there is one thing that I did notice different in DVD-RB produced material versus the originals and even scenarist authored discs. I don't know if it is important or even used by players (or maybe its only used by some and thats the reason why only some are affected). Anyway, before I babble on any further, there are no subtitle offsets in the SYNCI tables of the navpacks. They are all 0. Again, no idea about their importance, especially becuase they all seem to be either 7fffffff or 80000000 in non rebuilder material (though I only looked at a few navpacks throughout the VOB).

Anyway, just thought I'd throw out an anomoly I found while really bored. Back to the bar for me ;).

[RB]

Tobytl, I think you are right. Actually jdobbs already knows what's causing the subtitle issues (my JVC player is affected too), see http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=482057#post482057 . I'm sure it will be fixed soon.

[PurpleMan]

Is there a workaround for the subtitles bug for the time being until the next version is released? I mean, is there anything I can edit in the IFO or something that will fix the non-displaying subtitles?

[Tobytl]

@RB: Well, crud. Thats embarrassing. Anyway, I'm glad to hear the problem is known and being worked on. I finally resubscribed to MPUCoder, so those values make a little more sense now. 7fffffff simply means the sub exists in this VOBU and 00000000 means the sub does not exist at all (thus the problem).

Originally posted by PurpleMan
Is there a workaround for the subtitles bug for the time being until the next version is released? I mean, is there anything I can edit in the IFO or something that will fix the non-displaying subtitles?

IF, and I do mean if, the unpopulated sp_synca is the problem, then no. There is no simple way to insert that data afaik, it has to be done during the authoring process. Or I could be completely wrong :) But I did try darn near all the options in vob extras of ifoedit with no luck.

[PurpleMan]

I see.
so basically nothing we can do about it until jdobbs releases a fixed version?

Too bad, this renders the program unusable for me, as I must have subtitles ;(

[Centurione]

Hi,
I think I was one of the first to signal the problem, in reality I signed in the forum to say that.
I was able to obtain at the end working subtitles on one DVD (bent it like Bekham, R2 italian version) only with a very tedious job that I do not know if it will work also for other titles.
I demuxed with Rejig the video and the audio tracks, extracted the chapters frames, then demuxed the *.sub, *.idx with Vobedit from the original Vobs, converted back to *.sup with sub2sup and then remuxed all back with IFOEDIT.
At this point I changed name to the VTS_01_xx to VTS_03_xx, copied on the VIDEO_TS directory and made "get VTS sectors" in IFOEDIT.

At the end it worked, but I get a reallocation error when using ImgToolBurn to Burn the disk (I dit a -RW before just to be sure).

It worked But I had a couple of hour of totally unautomated work to do, so I would be very happy if jdoobs would eventually find a way to fix this in his, in any other things, wonderfully working application.

Regards, Centurione

[Tobytl]

Yea, Centurione, that should in theory work for all cases. By doing all that you essentially reauthored that vts, so the correct values were placed into the stream.

It would be quicker to use doitfast4u and scenarist, but much more costly to do legally. I did this with my two layer break jerkiness cases, worked like a charm.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by PurpleMan
I see.
so basically nothing we can do about it until jdobbs releases a fixed version?

Too bad, this renders the program unusable for me, as I must have subtitles ;( I would point out that subtitles work on almost all DVD units with it the way it works now -- that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be fixed (I have to stay in spec) -- but I don't want this to make it appear that this is a complete failure when it in reality only affects a few people.

[Centurione]

Hi,
jdoogs, please do not take this way.
I think that all the people that are writing in this forum do that because they like your program very much.
I think it is normal when you see something that work for all except you to be a little disappointed.
As I told before I found a workaround, simply it is very long ( and I have to admit I often have very little free time).
I understand that everything comes out is just because you ar doing a great job on an application that you once told it was done only for you.
So in reality I think that all the people that are using it have only to thank you to have made it public.
I can also understand that if for someone it do not work, so it is obvious that he will not use that, but you asked for beta testing, and seems to be a problem on some DVD player for subs.
If the work you should have to do for just a few people is too much (Sometimes I hardly understand why you stay all these hours coding) so everything is fine.

I hope you understand my word in spite of my terrible english.

Regards, Centurione

[jdobbs]

I didn't take it the wrong way -- I accept all criticism and truly want to make this a 100% backup solution. Beta tests are made to point out the things that need to be fixed.

I'm only trying to put this in perspective... Someone who came to the forum and read this might assume that subtitles don't work -- that is not an accurate statement for the vast majority of users.

I concentrate first on the problems that affect everyone, then on the ones that affect a lot of people, on down to the ones that affect a few... this one just hasn't been fixed yet.

[PurpleMan]

@jdobbs:

I wasn't criticizing. I was just disappointed that this wonderful program that had the potential of making my life alot easier is currently unusable - to me, and to me alone.
I never claimed it was bad for other people. However, ALL people suffer from the subs problem. It always happens. perhaps they have standalones that plays it regardless, but think about when they take it to watch in friends's house which has a JVC dvd, for instance.

Either way, you're doing a great job, I love your program, and I didn't mean to insult or make false insinuations and I appologise.

I would, however, still like to see this thing fixed rather sooner than later, but that's just me :)

Once more - great job, and I again appologise.

PurpleMan :)

[jdobbs]

No need for you to apologize. I'm the moron who left it out.

[PurpleMan]

heh :) don't be so hard on yourself.

and btw, just to show my appreciation, I decided to answer your question:

Yes, he's still wrong. :)

[RobertR]

Is this by any chance related to sub streams marked in IFOs like this:
en (0x21,0x22)
pl (0x23,0x25)
cz (0x24,0x26)
(not a real world example -- i've just made it on the fly). I had an issue with sub like above on backup of Pearl Harbor R2. I've spotted probs after i burnt it and played it in standalone (when standalone was set to have 16:9 TV - subs were missing, if i set it to 4:3LB subs were displayed correctly). I did not had any probs like this with DVD-RB but i didn't try it on one of those special dvds.

[jdobbs]

jdoogs, please do not take this way. jdoogs? :scared:

[Tobytl]

Originally posted by RobertR
Is this by any chance related to sub streams marked in IFOs like this:
en (0x21,0x22)
pl (0x23,0x25)
cz (0x24,0x26)
(not a real world example -- i've just made it on the fly). I had an issue with sub like above on backup of Pearl Harbor R2. I've spotted probs after i burnt it and played it in standalone (when standalone was set to have 16:9 TV - subs were missing, if i set it to 4:3LB subs were displayed correctly). I did not had any probs like this with DVD-RB but i didn't try it on one of those special dvds.
Nope, at least they would not appear to be related. That almost sounds like 0x22/0x25/0x26 were left off to save space and 0x21/0x23/0x24 were left as letterboxed instead of changing them to wide/letterboxed in scenarist. But I don't know a thing about your process, so thats just the educated guess of a blathering idiot.

This problem, as has been stated by the man himself up there, is confined to a small number of stand alones. It is by no means a widespread problem. And the cuase is known with relative certainty. So unless it proves difficult to obtain the delay values, a fix is on the way soon.

Originally posted by jdoogs - uh I mean jdobbs
jdoogs? :scared:
Don't worry, we're not going to change your name just yet :sly:. Besides, your doing a great job. This is a unique, and extremely useful proggy. And it just keeps getting more useful :) </kiss-ass> Seriously though, keep up the good work, I assure you it is appreciated by MANY.

[Centurione]

Hi,
I was the one (jdoogs)...

Sorry, I never thought to change your name :( I hope you will accept my apologize.

Regards

[jdobbs]

@All,

Try the new version (0.47) posted and let me know if it fixes your problem.


@Centurione

I was just kidding -- no apology is needed.. :) Sometimes I feel like a jdoogs anyway.

[XMEN3]

still not working on my samsung...tnx anyway
I've done only the rebuildin phase...'cause i think is not necessary reencode the video.
Is that right?

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by XMEN3
still not working on my samsung...tnx anyway
I've done only the rebuildin phase...'cause i think is not necessary reencode the video.
Is that right? No, all you should have to do is rebuild. If it isn't working now, I'm at a loss as to what it could be.

[Fastolfe]

Yep, same here no joy with my (old) Samsung.
Did the full three steps just to be sure.

Anything we can do to help?

Thanks,
FF

[jdobbs]

Just background...

1. Subtitle information in IFOs are left intact by DVD-RB so the problem shouldn't be there.

2. Subtitle packets are copied directly from the original stream into the newly authored VTSs so it shouldn't be there. The only thing that changes is the SCR and PTS information.

3. I'd not populated the subtitle information into the NAVPACK DSI packet in versions previous to 0.47 -- so I'd assumed that was the cause of the error.

4. Version 0.47 populated the DSI.

There isn't a lot left to look at since I leave 99% of the subtitle information untouched... any ideas would be appreciated.

[XMEN3]

button link in the menu has different information maybe?

[nwg]

I don't have this problem. I thought of a test for someone with the problem. I have heard of a similar problem in the past and the taken out PUO's can can have an effect.

Would it be possible with someone with DVD Decrypter to leave the PUO's intact when decrypting to the hard disk.

[jdobbs]

I do have the PUO's disabled in the NAVPACKSs (for no reason other than avoiding having to keep track of them during rebuild), I'll keep them intact in v0.48 and see if it has an affect... Since I can't repeat the problem on any of my three players I can't really tell if any of these things might work...

[nwg]

I have four players and a recorder and they all work fine with the subtitles.

[Fastolfe]

Just tried as recommended with PUO left unchanged in Decrypter setting and run DVD-RB 0.47 with 3 steps. The result is just the same with my Samsung = no subtitles :(

Pitty and except this glitch, I like my Samsung (really do not want to change my player...).

Thanks anyway for the help.
FF

[XMEN3]

Originally posted by nwg
I have four players and a recorder and they all work fine with the subtitles.

The subtitle for your post was "other people can take it on that place":D :D :D

[nwg]

Just tried as recommended with PUO left unchanged in Decrypter setting and run DVD-RB 0.47 with 3 steps. The result is just the same with my Samsung = no subtitles

Oh well.

It was a shot in the dark, so to speak.

It's a very strange problem.

[XMEN3]

I've got two SL-1210MK2 too on my home:devil:

[nwg]

I've got two SL-1210MK2 too on my home

You are the first (of over 8000) to say something about my link. :)

I don't have the Panasonic E50 anymore, I just replaced it with a HS2 (with a 40GB hard disk). The HS2 plays DVD-RB content flawlessly including the subtitles.

I don't have a clue what the problem is unfortunetly.

[dinobike]

My old samsumg 811 refuses to display the subtitles, only my new lg 7942 can show them.
I try using the 0.47 beta, but have no luck.

So, i stand by also, like others, because this is a great prog, and i know that this issue will be solve.

thanks jdobbs.

[ragarcia]

hi... i wanted to post this a while ago. i have the problem of subtitle not displaying in my standalone it is a philco, a brand made by phillips.

i was watching a backup i made of big fish and as usual the subtitles didnt display but then on the scene in the military show where the twins are arguing backstage and speak in chinese the subtitles did show.

i don't know what is the diference in the normal subtitles and forced subtitles that made them show.

well this is what i found, hope it is useful.

for those that are asking, yes, i had selected the english subtitles to show throughout the movie.

[RB]

The subtitle problems still persists in v0.50b. Just processed LOTR ROTK disk 2 (R2 PAL) and as usual, subs show up in WinDVD but not in my standalone, JVC XV-S300BK. It looks like this happens only to PAL users so far? Any NTSC users have that problem?

jdobbs, anything we can do to help track this down?

[Fastolfe]

Good news (sort of) for us poor owner of Thomson, JVC, Samsung DVD players that will not show subtitles from a DVD-RB project.

I got a PM from Darkdan saying that he found an easy way to correct this issue: use DVDRemake to load the VIDEO_TS folder generated by DVD-RB and save a new VIDEO_TS version somewhere else, then burn the new VIDEO_TS (supposely modified by DVDRemake)and voilà, the subtitles are showing perfectly (at least for me on my Samsung M405 and for Darkdan on its Thomson DTH-5000). I am using DVDRemake v1.4.6, dunno which version Darkdan used.

Just try it, it might be the temp fix we were all waiting for.
I am no expert in IFO files, so I leave it to the real experts to find the explaination that will lead to a permanent fix.

Thanks again Darkdan.

FF

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Fastolfe
Good news (sort of) for us poor owner of Thomson, JVC, Samsung DVD players that will not show subtitles from a DVD-RB project.

I got a PM from Darkdan saying that he found an easy way to correct this issue: use DVDRemake to load the VIDEO_TS folder generated by DVD-RB and save a new VIDEO_TS version somewhere else, then burn the new VIDEO_TS (supposely modified by DVDRemake)and voilà, the subtitles are showing perfectly (at least for me on my Samsung M405 and for Darkdan on its Thomson DTH-5000). I am using DVDRemake v1.4.6, dunno which version Darkdan used.

Just try it, it might be the temp fix we were all waiting for.
I am no expert in IFO files, so I leave it to the real experts to find the explaination that will lead to a permanent fix.

Thanks again Darkdan.

FF I think I'd try it first... DVD-RB doesn't generate a VIDEO_TS file. It copies the original and makes only some very slight changes to it (sector pointers and sizes) none of which are related to subtitles. If it does work -- please send me the original and new VIDEO_TS files so we can see what has changed...

[XMEN3]

I see, it removes 4 bytes (from 14 to 10) on my case but is still not working for me :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
But there's something to say : on this movie you can set subs only inside the menu.

Maybe i've done a mistake...
I've replaced only the new video_ts_ifo not the whole remaked folder video_ts.

[=coDec=]

Predator (Region 2) Pal

Subs would not work with files burned direcly from DVDRebuild (0.50b).

After processing through DVDRemake the subs are now visible on my
Alba DVD 108 set top.:)

Subs can be selected from handset or menu on this title, and both work.

@Fastolfe - Thanks for the heads up.

[jdobbs]

If it does work -- please send me the original and new VIDEO_TS files so we can see what has changed... Nudge. Since I can't repeat this problem (subs always work for me) -- it would be nice to see what is happening...

[XMEN3]

Originally posted by XMEN3


Maybe i've done a mistake...
I've replaced only the new video_ts_ifo not the whole remaked folder video_ts.

[jdobbs]

That's what I thought he was talking about as well. If it is the entire VIDEO_TS folder I'd have to get a copy of all the IFOs.

[XMEN3]

ok now works for me too.
Strange the video_ts.ifo is smaller but the ifo with the main menu is bigger.
There's a mail to send you the ifos?

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by XMEN3
ok now works for me too.
Strange the video_ts.ifo is smaller but the ifo with the main menu is bigger.
There's a mail to send you the ifos? Please check your PM. Thanks!

[Fastolfe]

Yes I was talking about the entire VIDEO_TS folder thru DVDRemake but since I am not home I cannot mail you the IFO files you are asking for. I should be back in a couple of days.

FF

[begu]

Well, I have one report too:
Star Trek V - the final frontier, R2 PAL, one disc version (not special 2 disc version).

The subs won't work on any dvd player. It shows all the time the 'arabian' font (strange figures, no letters at all). It happens on windvd, zoomplayer, sigma's xcard and on fintec dvd player.

It did happen twice ( I encoded it from the beginning again). I was not using shrink etc, to compress menus. I only used RB-opt 0.8 to check little the bitrates for main movie. Also, the DVD disc was ripped with decrypter (latest) using .ISO mode. And the image was mounted with daemontools (latest) for DVD rebuilder.

The players will stick to 'arabian' font no matter waht the subtitle settings are, very odd indeed. I will next try to first filter the unnecessary material (all but the required subtitles) with Instant copy 8 and then use the rebuilder and see how it goes.

Hope this helps, I could send some ifo or something, jdobbs? Thanks in advance.

[RB]

Originally posted by =coDec=
After processing through DVDRemake the subs are now visible on my
Alba DVD 108 set top.:) Interesting. I had previously tried running DVD-RB output through IC8 with no compression to see whether that fixes the problem (it didn't). I'll give DVDRemake a try.

[XMEN3]

with dvdremaker fix i've done succesfully
spy kids 3d, the mexican and godzilla...
tnx to fastolfe and, offcourse, jerry....

[The_Flash]

Yikes, I just noticed that the subs aren't working on my last backup with v0.51b. They don't show when checked in WinDVD either.

[jdobbs]

@The_Flash

Download the latest version (0.51c)... My subtitle removal code was defaulting to "remove" if you didn't specify which ones to keep in the setup area.

[The_Flash]

Ahh, that makes sense. Good catch.

[Centurione]

Hi,
also my confirmation that making a process step through DVDRemake solved my subtitles problem.
I tested it also on previous jobs that in my player were not showing subs, I copied again on the HD, (just to save encoding time) then made an exporting with DVD remake and burned on a DVD-RW.
Now the subtitles are working !.

regards, Centurione

[Fastolfe]

Well Done jdobbs,

I can report excellent news on that front with beta 0.52 (just did a rebuild from a previous test that was NOK with previous builds), it is for sure fixed for my standalone player, subs are showing perfectly.

Hope it will be the case for all the others that were facing the same problem.

Now I am a happy camper...

Thanks for the effort/time spent and sorry for the headache we caused you...

FF

[jdobbs]

That's great news. I found the PTM error in comparing NAVPACK contents before and after they'd been run through DVD ReMake. Several users had reported that the subs worked after... Since I couldn't repeat the problem the best I could do was hope this fixed it.

[Joergen]

That's brilliant! I hope others can verify this.

It lifts the last mental stone off the back of dvd-rb and finally makes it as all-round *compliant* as the BIG3. :)

[Bootsy]

Just tried it with two projects and the subtitles work on my standalone now. Nice work.

[Joergen]

This seems to have also fixed the rewind over chapter weirdness in Windvd, and possibly some standalones?

[Bootsy]

Originally posted by Joergen
This seems to have also fixed the rewind over chapter weirdness in Windvd, and possibly some standalones?

Hmm, haven't experienced this. But then I seldom watch my movies in reverse ;) You mean rewinding over a chapter break? I'll test when I get back from work.

[jdobbs]

This interesting thing is that I still don't know why the start and ending PTM for a VOB would cause this... and why only certain machines/engines were dependent upon it (but to be clear: I'm not making excuses, it WAS a bug in DVD-RB).

It just goes to show you -- nothing can be taken for granted in DVD authoring.

[onesoul]

jdobbs, could this problem be the origin of freezing end chapters specifically on the meaning of life disc? I will try again soon and report back.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by onesoul
jdobbs, could this problem be the origin of freezing end chapters specifically on the meaning of life disc? I will try again soon and report back. Not sure... but possible.

[Centurione]

Hi,
this message just to confirm that version 0.52 solved subs problem on my standalone (AMSTRAD 2320). (it took some time to encode LOTR 3 on my PIII 600 with some filtering)
Thanks very much to Jdobbs for his wonderful job.

Regards, Centurione

[Joergen]

Originally posted by Centurione
(it took some time to encode LOTR 3 on my PIII 600 with some filtering)

I bet! I was getting pretty anxious when I had to do it two times over with 3 fast PC's using RBFarm ;)

Thanks for the report btw.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Centurione
Hi,
this message just to confirm that version 0.52 solved subs problem on my standalone (AMSTRAD 2320). (it took some time to encode LOTR 3 on my PIII 600 with some filtering)
Thanks very much to Jdobbs for his wonderful job.

Regards, Centurione Just for the sake of scale, long did it take?

[Centurione]

30 minutes prepare, 23 hours encoding (2 pass only), about 30 minutes to rebuild.
Quality is acceptable to my eyes (it is not perfect but I knew that it was hard).
I just add a simple undot().deen() after having cropped the black bars, and then add them again with addBorders(). (I do not know if it works saving time, but it seemed to me that in this way I avoided to filter also the black bars).

regards, Centurione

[nwg]

I have done the same DVD with a XP2000 and 3 pass. Phase 1 took 9 minutes, Phase 2 took 10 hours and Phase 3 took 17 minutes. I also noticed it isn't perfect (the average bitrate was 2.5 megabit/sec) but, 99% of the film looks fine.

I haven't had any of these subtitle problems and apart from a little pixelation problem at a chapter. I have had no problems with DVD-RB since the very first version.

I guess I have been lucky. :)

[Joergen]

LOTR is near impossible, but I was able to do it in a way that semi-satisfies me by compressing the menus and remapping the 2ch audio and keeping only it.

Then again I've done some other full 8GB discs with just the movie, and they come out perfect. LOTR ROTK is not the best example of quality when the original is concerned, if it wasnt a bit blocky to begin with, it would encode/look better.

[RB]

Just wanted to confirm that subtitle problems with my JVC standalone are fixed with 0.52. Great job, jdobbs! :)

[=coDec=]

Sutitle issues no longer a problem with my Alba set top.

@jdobbs - thank you sir!

[Joergen]

:) me so happy

[jdobbs]

Me too.

[quantum]

So am I, because that means we're down to two big issues: seamless branching/angles and what was that other thing I kept bringing up? :)

[jdobbs]

I'm CC not CC sure?

[RB]

Well, given that BOV seems to be working (almost (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75470)) perfectly now, may I suggest considering menu reencoding? :) As the code seems to be already in place, this should be relatively easy to implement and probably could be done before attacking the interleaving issues.

[wmansir]

I'm going to mark this one fixed in known issues.

I also just added the BOV/Stills issue.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by RB
Well, given that BOV seems to be working (almost (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75470)) perfectly now, may I suggest considering menu reencoding? :) As the code seems to be already in place, this should be relatively easy to implement and probably could be done before attacking the interleaving issues. I think I may need to relook at BOV a little. My method leaves the original IFO intact, and as I am rebuilding I look for BOV information in the NAVPACKS of the original stream and merge them into the new NAVPACKS. It appears to work most of the time... but I have what seems to be a timing issue somewhere.

[AllTimeSToneD]

Well im not really sure if this is allready a "known issue". The subtitles for the extras are placed wrong when "Half-D1" was used, the screenshot was taken with media player classic and "save image". I tested diffrent players Zoomplayer and VLC also. And the result is the same :scared:

http://aoi.bakaotaku.net/~alltimestoned/killbillextrasubs.jpg

Used DVD-RB 0.53

[jdobbs]

They're not supposed to do that. Have you tried it on a standalone? The Half-D1 image is normally resized before the subtitle overlay is done...

[JDay]

I have the same result with MPC. Works fine in every standalone I've tried, however.

[Ntsita]

Originally posted by jdobbs
They're not supposed to do that. Have you tried it on a standalone? The Half-D1 image is normally resized before the subtitle overlay is done...
I did also LOTR_ROTK with mode half-D1, and the subtitles are wrong displayed with a dvd palyer software (WinDVD). Is there a manner to remake the subtitles with half-D1 mode, too?

[jdobbs]

No. Actually I think resizing the subtitles would make it stop working on standalone players, and possibly even WinDVD. I'd have to say this is WinDVD's problem -- not DVD-RB. But frankly, I'm not sure I've read a definitive answer anywhere on this.

[Joergen]

Half-d1 and subtitles work fine for my WinDVD4 (came with Geforce card). So, its not even a WinDVD problem, and of course most definetly not a problem on standalones since its in the standard.