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robot1
27th April 2004, 16:23
It's coded in few nights... so it still has bugs (like every beta...)
It should work with every encoder supported by DVD-RB.

Sorry for my english... it's not my mother language.

RB-Opt is an addon for DVD-RB (0.4x-1.x free and PRO)
It allows the user to select different bitrates for every Title in a DVD to process by DVD-RB. For example, backing up a DVD you may want to lower the bitrates for the extras, leaving more room to the film. It works even for extras in the same VTS of the film (ex. Trailers, deleted scenes...)
RB-Opt allows to change also CCE parameters and .avs scripts, to use your custom setup for backup.
Since v0.13 RB-Opt supports OPV mode: thanks to SansGrip for the coding.

Latest version:
RB-Opt v0.38 beta (http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=91918&d=1203877329) (mirror by Doom9.de)


Previous versions:
RB-Opt v0.37 beta (http://www.jdobbs.net/Freeware/RB-Optv0.37.zip) (mirror by jdobbs)
RB-Opt v0.33 beta (http://www.savefile.com/files/843117)
RB-Opt v0.29 beta (http://www.savefile.com/files/801164)

Usage:
Put DVD-RB in "3 click mode", and run the "Prepare" stage.
Now run RB-Opt, and open the REBUILDER.INF created by DBD-RB.
RB-Opt shows the default bitrate used for every title in the "Encode" stage.
Find (using preview) the Vob-IDs of the film, and link them (mandatory to have the best results).
Select the title you want to compress more/less, and input your custom bitrate.
The program will calculate the new bitrate for the titles labeled as "Auto".
It's just like DVDShrink and other one-click apps do ... in a less graphical way :-(
Now you can tweak end credits cell, initial cell, or use "expert settings" to tweak any CCE parameters, or to apply an avisynth filter.
For every title you can select if it will be encoded as VBR or OPV. For OPV titles the program will run a prediction step to find the right Q factor, unless you select a custom Q to override prediction.
After saving the changes, you can start the encoding stage in DVD-RB

The bitrate is always calculated cell by cell: if in DVD-RB you selected "Dynamically Assign Cell Bitrates", the resultant Cell Bitrates will be still proportional to the original ones.

Avisynth editing allows to insert a filter in every .avs of a Vob-ID, and uses "favourite filters" for faster editing. It allows to preview the cell, to control the filter behaviour.
You can change these CCE parameters, for every Vob-ID:
- Number of passes
- DC Precision
- Gop Length
- Quantizer Characteristics
- Bias
- Min/Max bitrate for VBR
- Matrices
- CCE internal Filters


Mich

Edit:
Updated to v0.38 beta.

For german speaking people, here is the RB-Opt page (http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread.php?t=13041) on german doom9 board.

jdobbs
27th April 2004, 19:07
Wow. Between this and RB Server Farms... we're hitting things I never even imagined. Honestly, though, the reason 3 Click mode exists and I'm openly explaining what all the parameters are is to support creativity in how they are used.

Joergen
27th April 2004, 19:15
Yeah we love DVD-RB so much we cant wait for you to add all the features and people beaver away on their own :)

Nice job robot1, I dont have any new stuff to encode and I'm even yet to try the half-d1-bitrate option but I'll test your tool on something in a few days. Seems like a sound idea.

robw
27th April 2004, 19:22
great robot1

DVD-RB is absolutely great but I'm still having trouble with the run-time error 9. From what I've read in the forum it seems to be related to the 1/2 D1 & 1/2 space option. I am definitely trying to use that option. I was about to try again with the option turned off when I noticed your program to tweak the avs file.

Well this seems like exactly the thing I've been waiting for and I am going to give it a try. Will let you know.

By the way, your interface looks very nice! Good start on a really outstanding feature.

robot1
27th April 2004, 19:31
It's only a start. I hope to post tonight a newer version (with less bugs...)

@robw
You could try to enable half D1, without half bitrate, and select the bitrate with RB-Opt.
Post your results...

robw
27th April 2004, 19:45
Originally posted by robot1
It's only a start. I hope to post tonight a newer version (with less bugs...)

@robw
You could try to enable half D1, without half bitrate, and select the bitrate with RB-Opt.
Post your results...

Wonderful. I'm very excited about giving this a try. I'll do it tonight and check the board before I do to see if you've updated the file.

gopalkk
27th April 2004, 20:16
What i mean is, should the calculations of bitrates be based on
resolutions as well so the user can decide in this tool if its
good to go with either half d1 or less bitrate or both in this
level?

This is just the begining of this tool.
I feel DVD-RB should concentrate on doing things accurately and
parameterising all actions it takes (it does this already mostly).

Then this tool (once clubbed with server farm) will create
the control features of DVD-RB.

All my DVDs has 20% used in Menus and this tool will help me
release more from the menus.

Thanks for your efforts

wmansir
27th April 2004, 20:35
Good job, Mich. I think tools like this are an excellent way to exploit the openness of DVD-RB's process.

People may have missed it, but a similar tool is in development, but it was buried in one of the long threads: here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=467081&highlight=ecl+Optimiser#post467081) It's a bit further along, but only works per VTS set. I actually lost track of it and when searching for it to post here was surprised at the advances that have taken place.

I don't mention it to discourage you, I just wanted to make people aware of it. I'm not even sure if John plans on developing it further, as the last update was several weeks ago.

Joergen
27th April 2004, 20:42
Wow, ECL Optimizer should have its own thread. It's sad to see it buried in there.

the-warriners
27th April 2004, 21:31
JDobbs - now that this app is in development do you still plan to add this sort of thing to DVD-RB as 'standard'?

Seeing as the original aim was to write a dvd shrink type of app that was easy to use but utilised the power to CCE i think it should be built in.

I dont want to belittle Robot1's work however.

Joergen
27th April 2004, 21:39
I'm sure he will and he has stated that he will. But there's still lots of bugs to squash and new features can bring more bugs that need to be squashed before adding yet more features.

robot1
27th April 2004, 21:39
I hope to find soon these features in DVD-RB ;)
Waiting for them, I coded this little app.

the-warriners
27th April 2004, 21:49
Joergen - I dont want to imply that JDobbs should do it now. Obviously these new tools are popping up now so I was just wondering if they might have prompted a change of direction.

To be honest I am more than happy leaving the extras at the DVD-RB calculated rate.

robot1
27th April 2004, 21:58
@all
Updated v 0.2 beta, with less bugs (I hope).

P3gasus
27th April 2004, 22:54
@robot1

I cannot test your software for now because I have no dvd to test it with (I am not at home); but I noticed that if you check the "Auto" checkbox without loading any inf file, RB-Opt crashes (Windows error message). I know that it is not really an useful bug report but I thought you could be interested.

Bye

PS Very nice app indeed :D

jdobbs
28th April 2004, 00:19
Originally posted by the-warriners
JDobbs - now that this app is in development do you still plan to add this sort of thing to DVD-RB as 'standard'?

Seeing as the original aim was to write a dvd shrink type of app that was easy to use but utilised the power to CCE i think it should be built in.

I dont want to belittle Robot1's work however. Actually I think this is a great way to do it. Something like this can be tested and if everyone likes the features -- and if everyone likes it I can look at rolling it into the base package.

I'm an advocate of open environments... and will try as much as possible to support the creativity of others. I think that is one of the factors that have made AVISYNTH so successful.

robot1
28th April 2004, 07:30
Originally posted by P3gasus
...I noticed that if you check the "Auto" checkbox without loading any inf file, RB-Opt crashes (Windows error message). I know that it is not really an useful bug report but I thought you could be interested.

Bye

PS Very nice app indeed :D Thanks!
Bug fixed for next version.

robot1
28th April 2004, 09:51
@DnGermany
Uhm... strange.
Can you check that Rebuilder.inf and Rebuilder.ecl in D2VAVS directory weren't actually saved?
Are there .bak files?
Thanks for info.

Fishman0919
28th April 2004, 11:25
I'm gettind the same error...checked the .inf and .ecl and they wasn't saved

robot1
28th April 2004, 11:29
@Fishman0919
What S.O. are you using?
XP ?
I can't repeat this error (win2k), but I hope I've fixed it.

Fishman0919
28th April 2004, 11:40
I'm running Win XP Pro sp1a

DVD-RB .45
Avisynth 2.54
decodefix100 (MPEG2Dec3dg.dll)

If this helps ;)

robot1
28th April 2004, 11:51
Thanks to Fishman0919 and DnGermany for pointing that bug.
It's fixed for next release (in a couple of hours).

Fishman0919
28th April 2004, 11:53
Sorry but Thank You....;)

Joergen
28th April 2004, 16:34
I get the "an unnamed file not found" error on both W2K and XP.
RB-Opt looks promising so far though.

Suggestion: Shouldnt the title names reflect the VTS_# instead? Like, I have this episodic disc where I wanted to cut down the extras VTS_5 but its Title3 in RB-Opt and I had to guess that by looking at the title video size %.

robot1
28th April 2004, 16:46
Lab-One just upped the new version.
link to v0.4 (http://lab-one.freewebsitehosting.com/images/RB-Optv0%5B1%5D.4.zip)
I fixed the "unnamed file not found" error (I hope), and added VTS number indication.

Added a new dialog box to change every cell bitrate (example: to lower end credits bitrate if they are in a single cell).
Added also an experimental "cell view" (plays the .avs with windows mediaplayer).

Joergen
28th April 2004, 16:51
Wow that was fast :D

Yep it works now for me. I changed VTS_5 and hit save and the BAK files were created and the INF and ECL updated. :)

robot1
28th April 2004, 16:52
Fine :)

robot1
29th April 2004, 03:13
Another update, for better size control.
Added preview also in main window.

To download:
link to RB-Optv0.5 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.5.zip)

Mich

robw
29th April 2004, 05:00
Originally posted by robot1
Another update, for better size control.
Added preview also in main window.

To download:
link to RB-Optv0.5 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.5.zip)

Mich

Mitch
Link is not working

lab-one
29th April 2004, 05:11
thats odd. right click and select save target as. that seems to work.

robot1
30th April 2004, 02:04
Fixed a bug introduced in v0.5:
loading a second Rebuilder.inf in the same session caused wrong bitrate displayed.
Much improved slider control behaviour.

The program now does what was in my mind at the beginning:
change Vob-ID bitrates
change single cell bitrate
cell preview

As there are many "error 9" for users with halfD1 & half bitrate, it could be useful to change the bitrate of the single frames cell (which goes too low and could be the cause of the error).
HalfD1/Half bitrate often cause undersized results: DVD-RB could be used to force an oversize to compensate (anyway I suggest to not set to half bitrate in DVD-RB at current stage, and to change with RB-Opt).

The interface should be better (my reference is always dvdshrink...) Maybe a treeview in place of the combo box would help. Maybe.
Development stopped for a while (if I don't find bugs to fix).

Download to
Link to RB-Opt v0.6 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.6.zip) (right click -> save target as)

blueboyec
3rd May 2004, 21:18
Thanks for this great program.

Possible bug:

1. When trying to tweak the last few cells (usually the end credits) of a vob, the auto check box of the 1st cell also get unchecked which prevents this cell from receiving any addition bitrate from the given away bitrates of the credits?

2. Some movies get distributed over a few (2 or 3) vobID, so when you lower the bitrate of the end credits only the vobID cells with the end credits get the addition bitrate from the given away bitrates of the credits.

For example: a movie is distributed over vobID1 and vodID2, credits are in vobID2. Before lowering credits cells bitrate - vobID1 cells & vobID2 cells ~ 70% bitrate of original. After lowering credits cells bitrate - vobID1 cells ~ 70% & vobID2 cells (except credits cells) ~ 78% bitrate of original. Is there a way you can distribute the given away bitrates of the credits over vobID1 and vobID2 so that vobID1 cells ~ 74% & vobID2 cells (except credits cells) ~ 74%. Hope this makes sense?

Thanks again

robot1
3rd May 2004, 23:29
Originally posted by blueboyec

1. When trying to tweak the last few cells (usually the end credits) of a vob, the auto check box of the 1st cell also get unchecked which prevents this cell from receiving any addition bitrate from the given away bitrates of the credits?
I'll check this. Hope for a fix tomorrow.

Originally posted by blueboyec
2. Some movies get distributed over a few (2 or 3) vobID, so when you lower the bitrate of the end credits only the vobID cells with the end credits get the addition bitrate from the given away bitrates of the credits.

For example: a movie is distributed over vobID1 and vodID2, credits are in vobID2. Before lowering credits cells bitrate - vobID1 cells & vobID2 cells ~ 70% bitrate of original. After lowering credits cells bitrate - vobID1 cells ~ 70% & vobID2 cells (except credits cells) ~ 78% bitrate of original. Is there a way you can distribute the given away bitrates of the credits over vobID1 and vobID2 so that vobID1 cells ~ 74% & vobID2 cells (except credits cells) ~ 74%. Hope this makes sense?
This is a bit harder to tweak. A title can be split in two (or more) VobID. Usually the split point is at the layer break.
At this time you should manually upper VobID1 bitrate, and then lower end credits cell, to have all movie cells with the same reduction. It's a bit trial and error.
I think the program should read the original .ifo to understand how a title is splitted, but I have never looked at this.

I'm glad you find this program useful.

robot1
4th May 2004, 21:18
Originally posted by blueboyec
1. When trying to tweak the last few cells (usually the end credits) of a vob, the auto check box of the 1st cell also get unchecked which prevents this cell from receiving any addition bitrate from the given away bitrates of the credits?
Fixed in v 0.6a. To download: Link (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.6a.zip) (Right click -> Save target as)

Thanks to blyeboyec for pointing me that bug.

blueboyec
5th May 2004, 00:16
Thanks for the update

Any chance on my 2 request being fixed soon?

thanks again

robot1
5th May 2004, 18:49
Originally posted by blueboyec
Any chance on my 2 request being fixed soon?
Am I wrong, or there is only another request?
I think to insert some code to "group" some VobID's, so they're treated as one. It's the simplest way to treat movies distributed over a few (2 or 3) VobID.

blueboyec
6th May 2004, 16:47
robot,

That is the one.

Thanks again for this cool program.

robot1
9th May 2004, 22:01
Originally posted by blueboyec

2. Some movies get distributed over a few (2 or 3) vobID, so when you lower the bitrate of the end credits only the vobID cells with the end credits get the addition bitrate from the given away bitrates of the credits. New version v0.7 allows to join Vob-IDs, so you can replicate the real structure of the film.
If you use the tweak cell option to lower end credits bitrate (for example), all the cells of the film will benefit from the extra space gained, if you join all the VobIDs of the film. If you don't use this option, only one part of the film will benefit from the extra space.

For example, The Matrix Revolutions - R2.
After removing foreign menus and all other stuff, Rebuild gave me a reduction of 69,19%.
Tweaking the last cell of the film with the credits to a bitrate 935 Kbist/sec, the film has a reduction of 73,1%
Almost a 4% gain :)

I hope the interface is getting better.
To dowload:RB-Opt v0.7 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.7.zip) (Right click -> Save target as)

rayvt
9th May 2004, 23:33
If the movie has a lot of segments--such as 291, RB-opt crashes.

VampHuntD
10th May 2004, 14:34
This looks like a great addon for RB, great work!

robot1
10th May 2004, 17:31
Originally posted by rayvt
If the movie has a lot of segments--such as 291, RB-opt crashes. Could you send me the rebuilder.ecl and the rebuilder.inf?
PM me, thanks.

blueboyec
11th May 2004, 18:07
Thanks for the update

Joergen
11th May 2004, 18:31
I think if the movie has over 150 segments it suffers from a DVD-RB bug that splits the movie wrong.

Jomile
17th May 2004, 00:46
RB-Opt is a very nice feature to combine with the one click solution CCE back up.

What is a player that can be used to preview the first cell?

robot1
17th May 2004, 18:13
I use the old Media Player in windows 2000 (MediaPlayer version 6.4, filename mplayer2.exe). Also Windows Media Player (the new one, wmplayer.exe) works.
Any player capable to play .avs should work.

blueboyec
17th May 2004, 20:06
After restarting the program, it forgets where the media player is and I have to find the media player after very restart of the program. Is this a bug?

robot1
17th May 2004, 20:45
Yes it is:confused:
Please, can you check if the setting is saved in the .ini file when you quit?

robot1
19th May 2004, 19:19
Bug fixing:
Improved handling of players for cell preview.
Solved crash for VobID with more than 100 cells.
Added "Hide Vob-ID of insignificant size" option in JoinWithVobID dialog.
Donwload v0.7a (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.7a.zip) (right click -> save target as)

In next version I hope to insert CCE tweakings:
gop lenght: 12 or 15 frames
dc precision: 9 or 10 bits... and so on.
Suggestions?

PINOBIRD
20th May 2004, 06:25
Hello robot1,
First of all thanks for this great add-on.
Wouldn't it be great to add checkboxes for the filters quantum has discribed here.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76261

Greetz PB

robot1
20th May 2004, 17:47
Originally posted by PINOBIRD
Wouldn't it be great to add checkboxes for the filters quantum has discribed here.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76261
Yes, it's possible.
One question: are those settings valid for all versions of CCE (2.50, 2.6x and Basic)?

blueboyec
20th May 2004, 20:13
This new version fixed the remembering of the media player problem.

Thanks for the hard work

Xuivo
23rd May 2004, 18:05
I've just tried your program and works like a charm!!! Very nice apps, especially for the end credit!!!

I hope you will continue your work!

Cheers

Xuivo

robot1
23rd May 2004, 22:07
A new version, with lot of improvements, will come soon.
new features:
insert line in avs scripts
CCE parameters tweaking (and a preliminary support to custom matrices)

Video Dude
23rd May 2004, 22:26
Originally posted by rayvt
If the movie has a lot of segments--such as 291, RB-opt crashes.


I keep getting a crash with MFC (Microsoft Foundation Class) error box.

When rebuilder.ini is opened in Re-Opt 0.7a the MFC crash occurs.

The movie had 2,562 segments.

Here is the debug dump listed in the MFC error box.
Error Signature:
AppName: rbopt.exe AppVer: 1.0.0.1 ModName: rbopt.exe
ModVer: 1.0.0.1 Offset: 000165ec

robot1
23rd May 2004, 22:31
Originally posted by Video Dude
I keep getting a crash with MFC (Microsoft Foundation Class) error box.

When rebuilder.ini is opened in Re-Opt 0.7a the MFC crash occurs.

The movie had 2,562 segments.

Here is the debug dump listed in the MFC error box.
Error Signature:
AppName: rbopt.exe AppVer: 1.0.0.1 ModName: rbopt.exe
ModVer: 1.0.0.1 Offset: 000165ec 2,562 segments?
Aren't too much? I've limited to 999 per VobID. Could it be a DVD-RB fault? If DVD-RB demuxing is right, I'll change that limit. Could you test if the rebuilded film (without tweaks) works well? (no stutter...).

Video Dude
23rd May 2004, 22:38
I meant to say avs files. Is that the same as segments? If not, how do you determine the number of segments? DVD Rebuilder was 0.49 used.

Others seem to be getting a lot also:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76438

It seems to play just fine.

robot1
23rd May 2004, 22:47
In next version I'll set the limit to 3.000 avs. Hope it's enough

DDogg
23rd May 2004, 23:02
A new version, with lot of improvements, will come soon.
new features:
insert line in avs scripts
CCE parameters tweaking (and a preliminary support to custom matrices) Wow! Thanks so much for doing this! See your PM re the test version.

robot1
24th May 2004, 00:34
Link to download (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.8.zip) (right click -> save as)
Added Expert Settings, to edit .avs scripts and CCE parameters.
Fixed a lot of bugs.
"Expert Settings" are per vob-id:
if you edit the .avs script (or change any CCE parameters), the changes are made for all the cells of that VobID.
If you have (for example) three extras in the same VTS (split in three VobID's), link them to treat as one, and make just one change.

My suggestion:
1 - if the film is split in two (or more) vob-id's, link them.
2 - change the compression (if needed)
3 - tweak end cell credits (if needed)
4 - link vob-id's to make expert tweakings.

@Video Dude
Please, test now. Bug should be solved.

P.S.:
as someone report problems in downloading, if anyone could mirror it...

[Edit]
CCE presets work only for CCE SP 2.66+ (the program detect the version). For CCE Basic users there is the ECL Tweaker by Quantum (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76662)

Joergen
24th May 2004, 01:19
Here you go, feel free to add it to your main post:

RB-Optv0.8.zip (http://koti.mbnet.fi/haupt/RB-Optv0.8.zip)

Video Dude
24th May 2004, 01:55
Originally posted by robot1
@Video Dude
Please, test now. Bug should be solved.


@robot1
It works great! No more error.

The expert settings are a perfect addition to the program.

Thanks for the great program. Good job.

jdobbs
24th May 2004, 02:18
Originally posted by robot1
2,562 segments?
Aren't too much? I've limited to 999 per VobID. Could it be a DVD-RB fault? If DVD-RB demuxing is right, I'll change that limit. Could you test if the rebuilded film (without tweaks) works well? (no stutter...). What movie could have 2,562 segments? Is this a Kareoke DVD or something?

Video Dude
24th May 2004, 03:25
Originally posted by jdobbs
What movie could have 2,562 segments? Is this a Kareoke DVD or something?
The bonus features had massive amounts of still galleries. DVD Rebuilder detected each still as 1 frame. Each still was given its own avs file.

jdobbs
24th May 2004, 03:49
Ok. If they're stills they are supposed to be broken out.

Joergen
24th May 2004, 18:00
I'm also now needing to increase the bitrate of the stills, but keep the bitrate of motion video pieces in the same VTS. This is cause the video parts are fine with this bitrate (3000kbit) but the stills look awful :(

This title has about 400 segments, of which only 20 are for the movie.

RBOpt 0.8 closes without error when opening the .INF :(

Any easy way to up the bitrate for stills?

edit: ok here's how I'll do it (thanks to RBFarm I can)

1) I'll up the bitrate for the VTS16 and VTS17 that have the stills using ECL Optimizer
2) move their current encodes to a new dir
3) del the farm_chunk files for those VTS
4) re-encode them
5) then move only the big parts (video parts) of the earlier encode to the D2AVS dir.

This way I get optimized video and good looking stills without oversizing. I hope :)

jdobbs
24th May 2004, 18:51
Originally posted by Joergen
I'm also now needing to increase the bitrate of the stills, but keep the bitrate of motion video pieces in the same VTS. This is cause the video parts are fine with this bitrate (3000kbit) but the stills look awful :(

This title has about 400 segments, of which only 20 are for the movie.

RBOpt 0.8 closes without error when opening the .INF :(

Any easy way to up the bitrate for stills?

edit: ok here's how I'll do it (thanks to RBFarm I can)

1) I'll up the bitrate for the VTS16 and VTS17 that have the stills using ECL Optimizer
2) move their current encodes to a new dir
3) del the farm_chunk files for those VTS
4) re-encode them
5) then move only the big parts (video parts) of the earlier encode to the D2AVS dir.

This way I get optimized video and good looking stills without oversizing. I hope :) I'll check it out -- but I thought I'd already set stills to the maximum... might be mistaken though.

Joergen
24th May 2004, 18:54
Originally posted by jdobbs
I'll check it out -- but I thought I'd already set stills to the maximum... might be mistaken though.

No no dont, as I originally dropped those VTS16 and 17 lower with ECL Optimizer cause they contain duplicates of an extra (the same extra is on the disc 3 times.. go figure Disney mastering) and its not unreferenced.

So what I wanted to achieve is first lower (for video parts), then raise for still parts. :)

I'd like to add that I wouldhave removed those duplicates (they play after you play a question game) but DVDRemake screws the menus and DVDStripper screws the game :D

robot1
24th May 2004, 19:42
Originally posted by Joergen
This title has about 400 segments, of which only 20 are for the movie.

RBOpt 0.8 closes without error when opening the .INF :(
Could you send rebuilder.inf and rebuilder.ecl to email?
Thank you. My email is in the readme file.

Video Dude
24th May 2004, 19:51
Thats similar to the error that I was getting with Re-Opt 0.7a.

Re-Opt 0.8 opens the rebuilder.inf with no problems. Tested with 2,000+ segments.

Joergen
24th May 2004, 19:54
robot1: I'll do a clean prepare and try that. If it doesnt work I'll send them to you.

robot1
24th May 2004, 20:08
Originally posted by Joergen
robot1: I'll do a clean prepare and try that. If it doesnt work I'll send them to you. Thank you.
Anyway I think DVD-RB encodes stills at a CBR rate of 6.000. RB-Opt doesn't change the CBR encoding bitrate (I don't know if ECL Optimizer changes that parameter). If it works right, you could lower the bitrate of the VTS with RB-Opt, without need to care of stills, which will be encoded CBR.
If stills come bad, probably that's a CCE fault.
Master Jdobbs, correct me if I'm wrong.

Joergen
24th May 2004, 20:17
My CCE does the 3 passes for the stills.. at default DVD-RB settings the bitrate meter in CCE goes from about 8.5mbit for the .vaf pass down to 7.3mbit for the end of the 3rd (2nd) pass.

It seems CCE doesnt do very well with stills. The quality is quite much worse than the original stills even at default bitrates.

Also it takes quite abit of power to open and close CCE a few hundred times :) Direct still-copying would be more optimal, but of course jdobbs already knows this so...

Maybe somebody could write a tool that extracts, renames and copys the stills over to D2VAVS 1:1?

Joergen
24th May 2004, 21:06
robot1: I sent you a PM with details.

robot1
24th May 2004, 22:54
The RB-Opt crash is related to a huge number of VobID.
Bug fixed, for next version.

jdobbs
24th May 2004, 23:00
Originally posted by Joergen
My CCE does the 3 passes for the stills.. at default DVD-RB settings the bitrate meter in CCE goes from about 8.5mbit for the .vaf pass down to 7.3mbit for the end of the 3rd (2nd) pass.

It seems CCE doesnt do very well with stills. The quality is quite much worse than the original stills even at default bitrates.

Also it takes quite abit of power to open and close CCE a few hundred times :) Direct still-copying would be more optimal, but of course jdobbs already knows this so...

Maybe somebody could write a tool that extracts, renames and copys the stills over to D2VAVS 1:1? No. Don't go to all that trouble... I can extract the stills as-is. I worry, though, when I see someone who says they have 2000 stills in a file. 2000 I-Frames can add up to a significant amount of storage.

Joergen
24th May 2004, 23:07
Perhaps another expert-option would be handy? "Encode Stills" on/off :)

robot1: Thanks for the quick fix test version! I can now tweak the bitrates exactly like I wanted!

wmansir
25th May 2004, 05:49
Originally posted by Joergen

Maybe somebody could write a tool that extracts, renames and copys the stills over to D2VAVS 1:1?

Have you tried RB-Keeper? I'm not sure if it will work on stills, but it may. There is a link to the thread in the overview stickie.


@robot1

Actually, I was mistaken, vmode=0 is one-pass VBR, not CBR (vmode=1), but it is only used with CCE 2.5 according to my observations. That is probably because the init() error has only appeared with 2.5. So it looks like stills with 2.5 are encoded with OPV, Q=20.

Also, on a slightly related topic. Now that One Pass VBR mode is being tested you might want to check for OPV usage and display a warning or error message. The easiest way would probably be to look for the presence of the ANALYSIS.ECL file, since just checking for OPV usage in the ECL could lead to false positives with it being used for stills in 2.5.

robot1
25th May 2004, 07:01
Originally posted by wmansir
@robot1

Actually, I was mistaken, vmode=0 is one-pass VBR, not CBR (vmode=1), but it is only used with CCE 2.5 according to my observations. That is probably because the init() error has only appeared with 2.5. So it looks like stills with 2.5 are encoded with OPV, Q=20.I hope Joergen can test that movie with CCE 2.5, to see if OPV mode handle well stills.

Also, on a slightly related topic. Now that One Pass VBR mode is being tested you might want to check for OPV usage and display a warning or error message. The easiest way would probably be to look for the presence of the ANALYSIS.ECL file, since just checking for OPV usage in the ECL could lead to false positives with it being used for stills in 2.5. Thank you, you're right!. I'm working to insert the check (and I took the wrong way!). I think to display an error message: in OPV mode Q depends from all parameters of a CCE encode, so no parameter can be changed.

wmansir
25th May 2004, 14:37
Originally posted by robot1
Thank you, you're right!. I'm working to insert the check (and I took the wrong way!). I think to display an error message: in OPV mode Q depends from all parameters of a CCE encode, so no parameter can be changed.
Actually, you were ahead of me. :) I was thinking you should just disable bitrate changes, but you are correct, changing other encoding parameters (especially filters) will affect the output size in OPV encoding because of the change in compressablilty of the material.

Xuivo
25th May 2004, 17:40
Just want to say that the version 0.8 is working like a charm. Expert settings are great. But does anyone know where to get a guide explaining those function. I'm kind of a newbie in this domain?

Thanks

robot1
25th May 2004, 18:09
Originally posted by Xuivo
Just want to say that the version 0.8 is working like a charm. Expert settings are great. But does anyone know where to get a guide explaining those function. I'm kind of a newbie in this domain?

Thanks For avisynth filters you can look at this page (http://www.avisynth.org/index.php?page=Section+3%3A+Filters%2C+plugins+and+colorspaces)
For CCE settings the best guide is CCE manual!

techdude
25th May 2004, 21:02
Does RB-Opt v0.8 beta work with current dvd rebuilder Version 0.50a thanks for the help guys.:cool:

robot1
25th May 2004, 21:08
Originally posted by techdude
Does RB-Opt v0.8 beta work with current dvd rebuilder Version 0.50a thanks for the help guys.:cool: Yes, it works.
One Pass VBR mode is not supported, and will not be supported, as changing parameters will lead to unpredictable results. In next version RB-Opt will not open OPV projects.

jdobbs
25th May 2004, 21:32
Sorry. Not trying to make it hard for you.

robot1
25th May 2004, 21:42
It's not hard. It's a matter of taste.
Someone prefers OPV, others multipass.
I always do multipass encodes, and I like to tweak CCE options.
But there is people who wants to press the big red button and have the best result possible, as fast as possible.
So your app can be good for all. RB-Opt is for the tweakers...

Joergen
25th May 2004, 21:53
I also would think that if you want to cut in time using the OPV method then why would you want to optimize the output with RBOpt? :)

In any case, I'm sure a one pass VBR method is welcome to many since it brings DVD-RB closer if not on par with transcoder speeds and still better quality at low bitrates.

jdobbs
25th May 2004, 22:12
Originally posted by robot1
It's not hard. It's a matter of taste.
Someone prefers OPV, others multipass.
I always do multipass encodes, and I like to tweak CCE options.
But there is people who wants to press the big red button and have the best result possible, as fast as possible.
So your app can be good for all. RB-Opt is for the tweakers... I personally always use multipass for my backups. It is the way to guarantee the absolute best quality in the space available. But it never hurts to have a high-quality speedy solution available too.

Fr4nz
25th May 2004, 23:57
Hi, I think there's a little bug in RB-Opt. In fact, if I want to reduce the percentage reduction, for example, from 65,5 to 64,4 see what happens....

[Status]
mode=1
Progress=2
CCEType=0
Encode_Progress=34
[V01000000001001]
SCR=,000
PTS=25854,000
Frame_Rate_Code=3
Pulldown=0
Structure=3
Frames=5845
Last_Sector=98180
Reduction=63,7 <==== WRONG!!!
Aspect_Ratio=3
HalfD1=0
EndPTM=21067854,000
[V01000100001002]
SCR=21042000,000
PTS=21067854,000
Frame_Rate_Code=3
Pulldown=0
Structure=3
Frames=4641
Last_Sector=190309
Reduction=64,4 <==== OK!
Aspect_Ratio=3
HalfD1=0
EndPTM=37775454,000
[V01000200001003]
SCR=37749600,000
PTS=37775454,000
Frame_Rate_Code=3
Pulldown=0
Structure=3
Frames=5847
Last_Sector=310053
Reduction=64,4 <==== OK!
Aspect_Ratio=3
HalfD1=0
EndPTM=58824654,000
......and so on!

So it seems that for the first cell RB-Opt doesn't set the right value. Can you correct this?? :)

robot1
26th May 2004, 00:07
@Fr4nz
Thanks for the report.
I'll check.

Fr4nz
26th May 2004, 00:14
Great Robot :D

I hope it's an easy thing to fix!

Paced
27th May 2004, 02:33
Hey robot1, just wanted to say thanks for the addition of the expert features, they're extremely useful :) Just wondering though, how difficult do you think it would be to add a function to remove a line (in the AVS script)? Thanks again for this utility :D

robot1
27th May 2004, 06:40
@Paced
Why would you remove a line in the script?

Paced
27th May 2004, 07:04
Originally posted by robot1
@Paced
Why would you remove a line in the script?

Hey, thanks for the reply. One reason is, when adding multiple lines to the script, and you accidently make a silly mistake, you have to reset the script, then start all over again. And secondly, DVD-RB uses BilinearResize when resizing down to half D1, and I prefer to use LanczosResize instead (therefore, a 'remove line' function would able me to easily replace the Bilinear with the Lanczos).

robot1
27th May 2004, 16:54
Next version will not have these features.
But in future I plan to implement a better editing (with a sort of "favourites filters", so there will be less mistakes).
I could do "Replace line", to solve a problem like the one you showed.

Fr4nz
27th May 2004, 17:13
Did you succeed in correcting the bug I've reported?

280zx
27th May 2004, 18:12
This is pretty slick. I've only tried it once so far but it worked perfectly. Thanks for the tool.

robot1
27th May 2004, 18:13
Right now I'm testing.
Is it time for a bugfixed release?

robot1
27th May 2004, 18:15
Originally posted by 280zx
This is pretty slick. I've only tried it once so far but it worked perfectly. Thanks for the tool. :) I hope it will be more and more useful

ClydeFrog
28th May 2004, 14:15
i think you should implent an option to reduce the overall bitrate of all vob-ids. i sometimes get oversized results and would like to reduce the bitrate evenly of every id...

Fr4nz
28th May 2004, 15:42
Yes I agree.

techdude
28th May 2004, 16:58
Thanks so much robot1 RB-Opt v0.8 beta works great rebuilder Version 0.50a i just did a backup of face/off dvd with CCE SP 2.66 and tweaked the extra tralier to a bitrate of 1800 and the end credits of the movie to 2016. with 5 passes movie got a bitrate of 4016 quality is Awesome. thanks again for thinking about us tweakers.:D

robot1
28th May 2004, 17:20
CCE handles well end credits also at a bitrate of 1000-1200 (unless you're very much interested in reading them!).

@Clydefrog
It's an option I can implement.
Anyway, in my experience, if you don't change CCETargetsectors in Rebuilder.ini, you'll never get oversized results.

ClydeFrog
28th May 2004, 17:28
i really dont know why this special disc gets oversized every time by 100MB, but it does :(
its my personal project of kill bill uncut, jap version with german ac3 and subs. plus the german menu and a nice intro from the jap disc and the english making-of.
pretty sweet result, but oversized ;)
i cant prog in any common language, but i'm expert in mirc scripting(:D), so i did it with a nice mirc script :P

Fr4nz
28th May 2004, 19:16
Originally posted by robot1
@Clydefrog
It's an option I can implement.
Anyway, in my experience, if you don't change CCETargetsectors in Rebuilder.ini, you'll never get oversized results. [/B]

Well, IMHO the default setting is too conservative because it leaves ~40-60Megs of space free on the DVD. So it could be useful an option that permits you to modify the overall bitrate.

jdobbs
28th May 2004, 19:27
Originally posted by Fr4nz
Well, IMHO the default setting is too conservative because it leaves ~40-60Megs of space free on the DVD. So it could be useful an option that permits you to modify the overall bitrate. If you are off by 40M that means you have filled the disc to within 8/1000ths of capacity... do you think you may be splitting the hair a little here? Just how accurate is accurate enough?

Fr4nz
28th May 2004, 19:46
Originally posted by jdobbs
If you are off by 40M that means you have filled the disc to within 8/1000ths of capacity... do you think you may be splitting the hair a little here? Just how accurate is accurate enough?

Well we are speaking about personal tastes ;)

Joergen
28th May 2004, 20:16
40MB might be something if you think it's an extra animation or menu, but it's nothing spread across the movie, just a decimal in a number.

Cant you think of something to fill that little space with? Have you thought of what happens if your dog chews through the original? Put some 800dpi scans of the covers on the backup and sleep better ;)

robot1
28th May 2004, 20:25
A new beta:
download RB-Opt v0.8a (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.8a.zip) (right click -> save target as)
Fixed bug reported by Joergen and (I hope) the small one reported by Fr4nz.

@Fr4nz
Please, report results with this version.

dave88
30th May 2004, 06:40
Your Download is not working for me, I get "your current security settings do not allow this file to be downloaded" I reset my security to the lowest possible setting (temporarily) and still no go, I have never had this problem before :confused:

I really wanted to try it out :(

robot1
30th May 2004, 07:20
If someone can help hosting...

@dave88
In page 4 there is a working link to RBOpt v0.8 by Joergen).
Which browser are you using? I can download with Explorer and with Mozilla, default options.

dave88
30th May 2004, 07:45
The pg4 link works fine for me, not sure what the problem is with the other :confused:

I'm using IE6 and like I say I tried setting security to low.

Anyway, Thanks for the cool tool

robot1
30th May 2004, 08:10
Here is another link to RBOpt v0.8a (http://www.adrianhensler.com/dvd-rb/RB-Optv0.8a.zip)

Edit:
Mirror is by adrianhensler.
@adrianhensler
Thanks (I couldn't send you neither a PM nor an email...)

dave88
30th May 2004, 08:17
Works Great, Thanks!

robot1
30th May 2004, 21:57
New version.
Download here (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.9.zip) (right click -> save target as).
If anyone can host on another server, PM me or post the new host (someone reports problem with my current server).

Changes:
Much improved avs editing:
- Added Favourites filters for faster avs editing
- Add remove line options (warning! only for experts!)
Global options to set a different target size (from 95% to 105%)
Original files by DVD-RB are now kept with a different extension, and it's possible to restore them all.
Bitrate control now works as should (thanks to Fr4nz for reports).
Add support to CCE Basic filters

RB-Opt works with the newest DVD-RB 0.51.
Anyway, if you select "Steal Space from Extras" the Reduction % is wrong (I think Rebuilder calculate reduction % after stealing. If jdobbs could change that, having in account the space stolen ...)

Joergen
30th May 2004, 22:13
mirror: RB-Optv0.9.zip (http://koti.mbnet.fi/haupt/RB-Optv0.9.zip)

robot1
30th May 2004, 22:25
Thanks for the mirror.

@all
I'll be one week off, so don't worry if I'll not reply to all bug reports and requests soon.
When I'll be back, I'll read all the messages.

Fr4nz
30th May 2004, 22:32
robot your proggie seems to work correctly now! Good job :)

robot1
30th May 2004, 22:36
Originally posted by Fr4nz
robot your proggie seems to work correctly now! Good job :) :) Thanks for the help in finding bugs!

eggchen
2nd June 2004, 07:31
I'm using the latest version of DVD-RB (51b) and just tried RB-Opt for the first time (0.9). After linking then tweaking the end credit cell, saving the changes, and then encoding in DVD-RB, I get a No File is Specified error.

I tried it several times.

Has anyone else come across this?

Thanks.


... this is not happening in version 0.8a.

Fr4nz
4th June 2004, 21:35
Same thing here :(

robot1
5th June 2004, 18:11
I'll post in a few hours a bugfixed version.
Thanks for reports.

robot1
5th June 2004, 22:28
Changes:
Fixed a bug with CCE 2.50 showing a "No File is Specified" error (thanks to eggchen and Fr4nz).
Fixed a bug in .avs editing: lenght of lines to add was limited to few chars (found by THR on doom9.de forum)
Download (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.9a.zip) (right click -> save as)
As always, a mirror would be very appreciated, as someone reports problem in dowloading from my site.

eggchen
5th June 2004, 23:14
Robot1,

Just noticed the post. I'm trying it now. So far, so good.

Thanks for the excellent work.:D

The eDealer
6th June 2004, 17:15
Hi robot1,
sorry, i also have the download problems with the right click, don't know why. The mirror is perfect, but the new version isn't linked to a mirror. :(
Can you send the new version (0.9a) via mail to me, than i can mirror it at the german doom9 Settings Thread of the RB Opt. (http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread.php?t=13041) ?

robot1
6th June 2004, 18:25
Working Mirror (forum.gleitz.info) (http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=67050)
Thanks to eDealer and the german doom9 forum.

TRALALA
7th June 2004, 04:06
Hi guys,

I think that it would be interesting to add in "CCE Setting" to change BIAS.I change it for the extras with very low bitrate, for example.

bye :thanks:

Paced
7th June 2004, 09:56
Thanks for the great work robot1 - the 'remove line' option is awesome :D Keep up the good work.

robot1
7th June 2004, 22:12
Originally posted by Paced
Thanks for the great work robot1 - the 'remove line' option is awesome :D Keep up the good work. :)
I always try to insert in the program a good suggestion.

@TRALALA
You'll find it in next version (I think in the week-end, 'couse I'm busy now...)

robot1
7th June 2004, 22:14
A set of Matrices for CCE, by our German friends:
Matrices in RB-Opt (http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=67057)
Thanks to eDealer

The eDealer
9th June 2004, 12:39
New Link for the Matrices Collection 0.2 (http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=67104), now with english informations about each matrix.

EDIT: i have included the bach1 by ddogg matrix.

TRALALA
9th June 2004, 12:59
Matriz BACH1 (by DDogg), for bitrate ultra low (around 1000):


08 16 19 22 26 27 29 34
16 16 22 24 27 29 34 37
19 22 26 27 29 34 34 38
22 22 26 27 29 34 37 40
22 26 27 29 32 35 40 48
26 27 29 32 35 40 48 58
26 27 29 34 38 46 56 69
27 29 35 38 46 56 69 83
16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30
18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32
20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34
22 24 26 30 32 32 34 36
24 26 28 32 34 34 36 38
26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40
28 30 32 34 36 38 42 42
30 32 34 36 38 40 42 44

I use it for extras Half D1 & Half space for example.

@robot1: THANKS :D

The eDealer
9th June 2004, 13:12
@Tralala,
with GOP 12 or 15??
DC 8 ?
QC 24 ?

robot1
9th June 2004, 22:17
I always use GOP 15.
It's dvd standard, and allows better compression.
Had no problem, till now.

@Tralala and eDealer
Thanks for the matrices. I'll insert them all in next build.

TRALALA
10th June 2004, 19:58
with GOP 12 or 15??
DC 8 ?
QC 24 ?
I usually use 15 for CVD/SVCD and 12 for DVD.
After reading robot1, I doubted which GOP to assign to the extras. Really with 15 the compression is better.

Finally:
DC 10 (normally, like the source)
QC 24
GOP 15 (better compression)


Regards, :D

The eDealer
11th June 2004, 01:38
For me, the extras (1/2D1 & 1/2 BR) need to be handeld like SVCD/VCD, so I use:
GOP 15 (for better compression)
DC 8 (like SVCDs)
QC 20

nice to know your way :)

robot1
13th June 2004, 22:14
Changes:
Full CCE SP filters support
CCE Min/max bitrate option included
CCE SP 2.67 BIAS support
CCE Basic 2.69 "Quantization characteristics" support (it should works as soon as Jdobbs support it in DVD-RB)
In avisynth editing, preview of both original and modified cell
Fixed a bug in Tweak Cell
Other small changes.

Download here (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.10.zip) (right click -> save target as)

Edit:
Mirror (http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=67142)

TRALALA
21st June 2004, 13:13
WOW, robot1 great work with "CCE Setting." :eek:

Although I have a problem, when I insert a max/min bitrate, the button OK is disabled. :confused:

Regards :D

robot1
21st June 2004, 17:06
Originally posted by TRALALA

Although I have a problem, when I insert a max/min bitrate, the button OK is disabled. :confused: The button OK is enabled as soon as the textbox loose the focus (ex: click on a radio button of DC Precision... , or just use tab after editing the bitrate)

dvdRENEGADE
27th June 2004, 18:14
bump

robot1
28th June 2004, 21:22
Any feedback?
Nobody reports anymore... so I think it's stable enough (and there is nothing more to tweak...)
In the weekend I'll post a small update.

cmsoliveira
28th June 2004, 21:37
Hi,

first of all, great app. Very usefull and easy to use.

I only would like to make a small request...

Is it possible to show the size of the dvd when we tweak it?
Example: I needed to oversize a dvd, in order to later compress the menu with dvdshrink (is better after because sometimes dvd-rb doesn't like "touched" source), but for that i really need to know how much am i going to oversize, hence, show the size of the tweaked dvd.

Hope u undersatnd, my english is not that good :)

Cya

robot1
29th June 2004, 18:41
Originally posted by cmsoliveira
Is it possible to show the size of the dvd when we tweak it?
There is a problem: Rebuilder doesn't save in extern files the size of the menus (and other Vob's not encoded) and the size of audio streams. So it's impossible without analizing the dvd-source, and I think it's too much difficult for me. :(

cmsoliveira
29th June 2004, 19:19
Well, then i guess i'll have to continue with my trial and error method:(

Anyway, great app you have there, and for me , with dvd-Rb is a must-have.

Many thnx

jdobbs
29th June 2004, 22:55
Originally posted by robot1
There is a problem: Rebuilder doesn't save in extern files the size of the menus (and other Vob's not encoded) and the size of audio streams. So it's impossible without analizing the dvd-source, and I think it's too much difficult for me. :( I collect that information anyway. If you'd like I can write it to the rebuilder.inf file.

fugit10
30th June 2004, 03:17
were you suppose to open rebuilder.ini after u press prepare or after u press encode? cause i did it after preparation was done which showed only one vts file and when i did it after i pressed the encode was done and then i saw many more vts menus. I did the bittrate changes and stuff then but i'm not sure if there was a change done. another question I had was that am i suppose to click dynamicall assign cell bittrates in order for me to use the full space of the dvd? my last question is how can I lower the bittrate for the menus? I was able to change it for the extras but not the menus.

robot1
30th June 2004, 13:09
Originally posted by jdobbs
I collect that information anyway. If you'd like I can write it to the rebuilder.inf file. Yes, it would be great! Thanks.

robot1
30th June 2004, 13:14
Originally posted by fugit10
were you suppose to open rebuilder.ini after u press prepare or after u press encode? cause i did it after preparation was done which showed only one vts file and when i did it after i pressed the encode was done and then i saw many more vts menus. I did the bittrate changes and stuff then but i'm not sure if there was a change done.
You should open rebuilder.ini after running the prepare step in dvd-rb. RB-Opt changes the parameters used during the encode step. So, any changes made after the encode are not useful (or you should encode again).
Anyway you should find the same VTS numbers before and after encode. Did you uncheck the "Ignore VOB-ID of insignificant size" the second time?
another question I had was that am i suppose to click dynamicall assign cell bittrates in order for me to use the full space of the dvd? my last question is how can I lower the bittrate for the menus? I was able to change it for the extras but not the menus. DVD-RB doesn't support encoding of menu (till now). As soon as DVD-RB will support menues, also RB-Opt will.

robot1
19th July 2004, 21:53
Changelog:
- Display approx. final DVD size (DVD-RB 0.55 and later). This is an estimation, and I need feedback on the results. In my tests it was enough accurate (2-4 MB off)
- Better text box behaviour (now OK button is always enabled)
- Better support for stills (not compressed vbr by DVD-RB 0.53)
- About box with reminder to the DVD-RB thread at doom9 forum (to check for upgrades, ask for help...)

To download: link (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.11.zip) (right click -> save target as)

Hope you find it useful.

jptheripper
19th July 2004, 22:26
could you explain the better support for stills part? this is the portion of rb that has been giving me the most problems (crashing cce)

if i run my .inf through rb-opt does it make some changes to do a better encode on stills?

Guess i am just not sure what to do with it.

robot1
19th July 2004, 22:30
No, RB-Opt doesn't change the way Rebuilder encodes stills.
From DVD-RB 0.53 stills are encoded CBR at a fixed rate of 6.000 kbit/sec, and many users reported it solved their problems.
The new version of RB-Opt simply doesn't allow to change VBR bitrate for cells which are encoded as CBR (stills).
Hope to have been clear.

69Mws
20th July 2004, 11:35
The archive with 0.11 is not working for me, got following error: "The archive is either in unknown format or damaged" (using WinRAR 3.30) :(

Greetz
69Mws

robot1
20th July 2004, 16:46
I hope someone could offer a mirror.
@69Mws
PM your email and I'll send you the file.

robot1
20th July 2004, 21:04
Here is the mirror.
Thanks as always to eDealer!
mirror (http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=67817)

69Mws
22nd July 2004, 10:19
Thx for the mirror, wasn't here since my last post, so I couldn't pm you my mailaddress.

But the new mirror is working fine :)

Greetz
69Mws

robot1
23rd July 2004, 22:58
Originally posted by TheGame7
Does RB-Opt allow the encoding of titlesets usually ignored by DVDRB? No. RB-Opt works on the files created by DVD-RB in "prepare" stage. If a titleset isn't demuxed, RB-Opt can't touch it.

robot1
1st August 2004, 21:46
RB-Opt v0.12 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.12.zip) (right click -> save target as)

Few updates this time (working on new features...)
- Fixed a bug: predicted size didn't worked anymore with DVD-RB 0.56 (a parameter in Rebuilder.inf was changed from the one used in DVD-RB 0.55)
- Added full preview of VobID's in main window and in .avs editing (useful to check filters in every scene of the film, not only on the first cell)
- Added size indication in "Global Options": it's handy if you want an oversized DVD, and you want to remove extras with external program *after* rebuilding with DVD-RB.

As soon as I get another mirror, I'll update the first post.

jptheripper
2nd August 2004, 14:55
is there anyway to global replace things?

for example if using half d1 i would like to LancozResize instead of bilinear. But i dont want to open every avs..

robot1
2nd August 2004, 15:31
RB-Opt works per VobID, so it edits all the .avs of a VobID in one time.
If extras HalfD1 are in the same VTS, join all the VobID's (button Link VobID), and you have to do just one editing.
Try it, all your changes are backed-up, and you can restore everything.

Dimad
2nd August 2004, 17:28
@robot1

As per your request:
Rb-Opt v0.12 can be downloaded from DimadSoft site: http://www.dimadsoft.com/rb-opt/RB-Optv0.12.zip

robot1
2nd August 2004, 17:50
Thank you.
I update the first post.

Xuivo
22nd August 2004, 17:36
Yeah, thanks Robot1. I think that your program is great!! There's a last thing that could be great with it but i don't know how hard it is do program it. Is it possible to split a cell in 2 and change the bitrate of only a part.

For example, the last part where the credit are normally. Sometime theres still like 2 minutes of movie then after like 10 min of credits. So it could be cool if you can only change the bitrate from 2 min to 12 for example.

Is that possible?

Cheers, and thanks for your great work!!!

robot1
22nd August 2004, 20:57
@Xuivo
Thanks.

I think it's a good idea. I'll try to add this feature in next version.

erdoke
24th August 2004, 10:03
Originally posted by robot1
@Xuivo
Thanks.

I think it's a good idea. I'll try to add this feature in next version.

So is that possible with this nice tool to set RB to encode only one cell (and use all other demuxed materil with the re-encoded cell to rebuild the DVD-Video)? I have added a menu to an earlier DVD2DVDR backup, and it is a little bit oversized now. But only 9 MB, so it would be enough to re-encode the last cell where the credits section is located.

THX for any help

robot1
24th August 2004, 10:13
Originally posted by erdoke
So is that possible with this nice tool to set RB to encode only one cell (and use all other demuxed materil with the re-encoded cell to rebuild the DVD-Video)? No, you can change the bitrate of every cell, but you have to encode all.

Sir Didymus
24th August 2004, 14:37
Originally posted by erdoke
So is that possible with this nice tool to set RB to encode only one cell (and use all other demuxed materil with the re-encoded cell to rebuild the DVD-Video)?
...
THX for any help

If you didn't delete the D2VAVS folder, it should be possible to do the job manually (I mean even without the support of the excellent application of robot1)...

1) identify the filename of the cell you want to squeeze (let's say for example it is V01001100002004.m2v)

2) open the file rebuilder.ecl with a text editor, and extract the relative [item] and [file] sections to create a new temp.ecl file

3) In this file lower to a suitable value the line vbr_brate_avg=xxxxx; the suitable value should be very easy to find, if you know the number of frames of the cell (i.e. its duration) and the size you want to obtain... with a little bit of math... :)

4) Manually start eclcce, feeding it with the temp.ecl

5) Just hit rebuild...

It is not properly a single click process, but it should take much less than reencoding every things...

Hope it is of some help...
SD

Sir Didymus
24th August 2004, 14:42
... and of course an even simpler solution is to use DVD Shrink to reduce a bit the movie itself ot some parts (like the menus or the extra) that are of minor relevance to you...

Cheers,
SD

erdoke
24th August 2004, 16:48
Originally posted by Sir Didymus
... and of course an even simpler solution is to use DVD Shrink to reduce a bit the movie itself ot some parts (like the menus or the extra) that are of minor relevance to you...

Cheers,
SD

SD, thanks for your help.
Yes, the transcoder option is on my list, but it is still not a 10 minute thing.
I hoped that maybe a blanker app exists that can blank out a part of a single cell or RB-Opt is able to handle only a part of the movie. My cell looks like: 1 minute of the end of the movie and long credits.
I do not really understand the manual CCE recoding of this cell. Or to be more precise, what I do not understand is how I will force Rebuilder to rebuild the movie if a RB "Encode" phase is not executed between Prepare and Rebuild. Even the Rebuild button is unfunctional and grey if an Encode section has not been done.

Sir Didymus
24th August 2004, 20:17
Ahhh,

SORRY erdoke!!!

I totally misunderstood what you have stated in your post...

I assumed that you did at least ONE complete rebuild with DVD-RB, and that you were looking for some method for reducing the size of one of the cells of the rebuilt title...

It is now clear to me that your backup has been produced by DVD2DVDR, not by DVD-RB, so please forget my previous post...

Anyway, thinking to the problem, I have to propose a solution (or better a crazy idea, since it is assuming an heavy manual work...), which is working indeed, since I just tested it before posting...

It takes around 30 minutes for a simple title...

1) rename the cce exe file; in such a way that when eclcce try to launch it an error message is produced...

2) Set up DVD-RB in three click mode and go through prepare (that goes flawless) AND encode; two error messages are produced for every try of encoding, BUT the avs and the FLG files are still generated in the D2VAVS folder... and the rebuild buttun is now not grayed...

3) what you need now is a single m2v file for every cell that has not been generated by CCE (by the way, now it is better to rename again the cce exe file to its original name)... for doing this, vobedit is just what is necessary: first pass for demuxing by cell id the whole title set(s), and a second pass for demuxing again the cells for the extraction of the m2v streams...

4) Now it is necessary to rename carefully every demuxed m2v file to the one corresponding to the cell to be rebuilt. The log file generated by vobedit and the AVS files in the D2VAVS folder are helpful for matching the names for the m2v files...

5) Hit rebuild...

6) In this manner you have recreated an IDENTICAL copy of your source disk, since you didn't use any encoder for its production. Now it is possible to change the bitrate of every single cell in the title, since you have in the D2VAVS folder all the necessary files...

I say again: it works...

Cheers,
SD

erdoke
24th August 2004, 22:55
Originally posted by Sir Didymus
Ahhh,

SORRY erdoke!!!

I totally misunderstood what you have stated in your post...

I assumed that you did at least ONE complete rebuild with DVD-RB, and that you were looking for some method for reducing the size of one of the cells of the rebuilt title...

It is now clear to me that your backup has been produced by DVD2DVDR, not by DVD-RB, so please forget my previous post...

Maybe it was because of my poor english and I should look for a good dictionary instead of writing on-the-fly. :D

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
Anyway, thinking to the problem, I have to propose a solution (or better a crazy idea, since it is assuming an heavy manual work...), which is working indeed, since I just tested it before posting...

It takes around 30 minutes for a simple title...

...

I say again: it works...

Cheers,
SD

I must say that it's a very smart and elegant solution to my problem. Unfortunately I will not have time to try it this time, so it is more than probable that I will use a transcoder to shrink the 9 MB. Anyway the movie has an average bitrate of 4400, so it will be unvisible.
It is among my plans to rebuild another one of my backups (5th Element) which has a huge menu, and it seems reasonable to re-encode it and the end credits as well.

So thanks again SD, soon I will take advantage of your guide.;)

robot1
27th August 2004, 16:08
You can find RB-Opt v0.13 here (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.13.zip) (right click -> save target as)
Most part of the code for the OPV mode is written by SansGrip. All the credits goes to him!
As soon there is a new mirror, I'll post it.
I hope to receive feedback on the OPV mode, to improve it.

Changelog:
- Added support to OPV.
DVD-RB's OPV prediction pass is done at the end of the prepare phase,
this makes it impossible to use RB-Opt with DVD-RB's version of OPV.
The prediction has already been run using the default CCE settings
from DVD-RB, and any changes to those (e.g. by selecting a custom
matrix with RB-Opt, or changing the GOP length) will invalidate the
results and cause an under- or over-sized encode. By doing the
prediction in RB-Opt one is able to set custom parameters and tweaks
as usual and *then* run the OPV prediction, meaning the prediction
will be run with the same CCE parameters as the actual encode, and
should thus be accurate.
More info can be found in OPVreadme.txt in the package.

Now you can run the "prepare" step in DVD-RB using normal VBR mode,
then, in RB-Opt, select for any VobID if encode in VBR or OPV mode.
If you have an oversized (or undersized) result in OPV mode, you can
re-open the Rebuilder.inf in RB-Opt, and change the mode to VBR. After
saving, the "encode" step in DVD-RB will run just the second CCE pass
(as the .vaf file is retained).


- Fixed a bug: if you selected a non standard matrix in CCE options, it
was used not only for the selected per vob-id, but for the whole film.
Now you can set different matrices for every VobID (ex. use a low
bitrate matrix for extras with low bitrates, leaving default matrices
for the main movie)

Paced
27th August 2004, 16:14
This program just keeps getting better and better; thanks robot1 (and SansGrip) for all your hard work.

robot1
27th August 2004, 19:40
Originally posted by Paced
This program just keeps getting better and better; thanks robot1 (and SansGrip) for all your hard work. Thanks
:)

ShadowKnight
28th August 2004, 02:49
Originally posted by robot1

- Added support to OPV.

Now you can run the "prepare" step in DVD-RB using normal VBR mode,
then, in RB-Opt, select for any VobID if encode in VBR or OPV mode.
If you have an oversized (or undersized) result in OPV mode, you can
re-open the Rebuilder.inf in RB-Opt, and change the mode to VBR. After
saving, the "encode" step in DVD-RB will run just the second CCE pass
(as the .vaf file is retained).


You Rule Robot1! and SansGrip as well... thank you for adding this Robot1, it was well worth the wait. Mad props to you my friend :)

ShadowKnight
28th August 2004, 03:32
Originally posted by Xuivo
Yeah, thanks Robot1. I think that your program is great!! There's a last thing that could be great with it but i don't know how hard it is do program it. Is it possible to split a cell in 2 and change the bitrate of only a part.

Cheers, and thanks for your great work!!!

I would like to see this also, but with opv, and selecting a section to do vbr. It would be nice for end credits or HBO static screen logos. Is that possible?

ShadowKnight
29th August 2004, 02:51
Originally posted by robot1
I hope to receive feedback on the OPV mode, to improve it.

My first Test came out beautifully!
Forrest Gump R1
4.37 GB (4,694,736,896 bytes)

I'll report more as I run them.
Seems to be working great tho... I ran it with the double check thing on, and all the rest at default values.

SansGrip
29th August 2004, 08:18
Cool :D

erdoke
29th August 2004, 17:12
The primary download link in the first post seems broken right now.

SansGrip
29th August 2004, 17:58
Mirrored here (http://www.indeus.com/sansgrip/RB-Optv0.13.zip).

erdoke
29th August 2004, 18:08
Originally posted by SansGrip
Mirrored here (http://www.indeus.com/sansgrip/RB-Optv0.13.zip).

THX, it worked OK.

marnum
2nd September 2004, 12:01
Hi

I'm afraid I currently can't get OPV to work. I'm doing AI at the moment, and I've done what the OPVreadme said, and I clicked 'Save Settings'. The avs was not modified, but some CCE settings were.

Min bitrate: 600kbit
Max bitrate: 6500kbit
Custom Matrix: KVCD Notch
Low Pass: 8
Effect Restricted Vertical: 2
DC Prec: 10
GOP: 12

CCE 2.66.01.07 started up and ran the prediction.

When CCE finished, I got a notification
"Could not open 'C:\Path\VTS_02_VobID_01.m2v' for reading"
and the log said

=== Running prediction on VTS 2 - VobID 1
--- Initial Q: 36
--- Frames: 109275, target size: 1728188 KB
--- Desired sample size: 17459 KB
--- Pass 1. Waiting for encoder...
--- Testinq Q factor: 36
*** Using Q factor 0
=== Q Factor not calculated

Not seeing what was wrong, I opened the file in mpc and it played flawlessly.
Anybody got an idea?

robot1
2nd September 2004, 21:02
Originally posted by marnum
When CCE finished, I got a notification
"Could not open 'C:\Path\VTS_02_VobID_01.m2v' for reading"
and the log said
Check your PM.
Anyway, what is the path of your D2VAVS folder?
VTS_02_VobID_01.m2v should be in ..\D2VAVS\prediction\
and not in
C:\Path\
:confused:

robot1
9th September 2004, 21:37
Download RB-Opt v0.14 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.14.zip ) (right click -> save target as)
As soon as there is another mirror, I'll update the first post.
Changelog:
Added support to CCE SP retail (as DVD-RB 0.58)
Fixed a bug in "Link VobID" dialog: sometimes "Link All" didn't work properly.

I've made few changes to the OPV routine, to avoid the error reported by marnum. Hope it's fixed, but I can't reproduce it. If anyone gets that error, please post in forum (or PM me).

Boulder
10th September 2004, 16:35
I can't get v0.13beta working with the latest DVD-RB. The program just closes itself without any crash info when I load the rebuilder.inf file. I'm currently trying to encode Lord of the Rings : The Two Towers Extended Edition extras, could it be that the .inf file is just too big, it's 341492 bytes!

If (and probably when) you need more info or the inf file, just let me know.

robot1
10th September 2004, 18:46
@Boulder
Please, check you PM

RB-Opt v0.13 beta should work with DVD-RB 0.58, if you don't use CCE SP 2.67 retail.
I posted yesterday an update (0.14beta) to be fully compatible with that release.
Anyway in a few hours I'll post 0.14a because I found two little bugs. I hope to include fixes to your problem.

robot1
10th September 2004, 19:42
@Boulder
Thanks for the file you sent me.
The problem is the sixth vts: there are 1806 cells! (still pictures, as they are 1 frame).
I'll post a fix in v0.14a.

Boulder
10th September 2004, 21:45
No problem, glad to help:)

burnout
19th September 2004, 13:24
with dvd-rb 0.60, rb-opt (tried 0.12 and 0.14) shows some vob-id's twice, but when u select the lower of the 2 duplicate vob-id's it highlights the first... i guess this has something to do with the new prepare stage with 0.60 as i have never seen it before and it has appeared on 2 dvd's. not tried encoding them yet so i'm not sure if it affects anything but thought i would report this ;)

jdobbs
19th September 2004, 13:44
This could be caused by the introduction of a new area in the REBUILDER.INI file. Now in addition to the "[V01000100001001]" area for each cell there is a "[V0100001]" area to store information for a VOB. Currently there is only one entry (last_sector), but it might expand).

robot1
19th September 2004, 21:53
New version of RB-Opt.
Can be downloaded here (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.15.zip) (right click -> save target as)
As soon as I've a new mirror I'll post it.

Changelog:
Added compatibility with DVD-RB 0.60
Better memory usage, to allow to tweak DVD with strange structures (lots of Vob's or lots of cells)
Fixed incorrect "Global resizing" behaviour in "Global Options" dialog.
Various bugfixes.

[Edit]
If you have already downloaded v0.15 and have problems in save - download it again. The link is the same, but there is a new build.

robot1
20th September 2004, 17:07
Thanks as always to eDealer,
here is the mirror (http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=68632) on doom9.de

Boulder
23rd September 2004, 22:55
Does v0.15 support DVD Rebuilder version 0.62? I only get the whole movie shown as one cell so I can't limit the bitrate for end credits. Other than that it seems to work as it should. I just wanted to know to make sure I'm not doing something wrong here;)

robot1
23rd September 2004, 23:14
RB-Opt should work with DVD-RB 0.62, as jdobbs didn't changed file format in this version. And in a first test I've done I see no problem.
If you uncheck "Autosized" and press "Tweak Cells", do you find just one cell?
That would be very strange.
If you find just one cell, please check how many times you find the line
[item]
in Rebuilder.ecl
If there are many instances, then there is something wrong, and please PM me.
TIA.

Boulder
23rd September 2004, 23:23
Looks like it was a mistake on my part, I just noticed that I had to select VBR in RB-Opt to get to tweak the cells:o

Once again I know how a newbie feels..

robot1
23rd September 2004, 23:28
In OPV mode you can't tweak end-credits, because the whole vob-id will be encoded with the same Q factor.

wfn1
26th September 2004, 18:14
@robot1

hi, just tested out your .15 version in conjunction with dvd-rb .62 and i'm getting this cce error which says unable to open cce_encode() function or something to that extent. after that the encoding stops.

the source is futurama_s3_d1 and my tweaking included evening out the bitrate on per vts level for main episodes (vts4-6 and vts8-10), linking the ids in an extras vts7 and adjusting the bitrate and adjusting the bitrate on vts11 which is also extras.

the encoding stops on vts9. i tried with cce sp 2.50.01.00 and cce sp 2.66.01.07 and they both give me the same error. is there a log somewhere which i could use to troubleshoot or send to you? thank you for your continuous effort in developing this very necessary tool.

robot1
26th September 2004, 19:55
Probably the bitrate of the cells in vts9 is too low for the complexity of the source (I think other people reported this error, even without RB-Opt - especially for "static" - like HBO logo).

You could try to change encoding in CBR for cells in vts9 (if they are small enough you shouldn't have problems).

For cce 2.50 CBR is
vmode=1
for CCE 2.66 CBR is
video_type=1

You can find vts9 cells in rebuilder.ecl looking at:
[item]
title=V09xxxxxxxxxxxx

I've sent you a PM.

wfn1
26th September 2004, 21:20
i'll try the cbr method and see if it helps, i got the pm and i already sent you all the files you requested. thank you!

pg55555
1st October 2004, 14:40
robot1

As you can see in this thread

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81567

this is an error that apperas for cells of 60 or fewer frames when you select Half D1 for extras. This problem is still present in RB 0.62.

A solution that works is to change the encoding of the problematic cell to CBR

As jdobbs seems to have its hands full trying to ironing out more traumatic bugs, maybe you could find a way to be able to select CBR for all cells below 60 frames in RBOpt.

The only way I´ve have found up to now, is to manually edit the REBUILDER.ECL file, but it can be real tiresome when you have a lot of this cells (it happens in some movies).

If you can choose the CBR bitrate for this segments, better (as ussually they are just blank black frames, a low bitrate - say 1000 - does not cause any harm

A problem could be ussually this small cells are within a VOBID toghether with other cells, which VBR settings we would like to maintain.

Thanks for a great application.

Pablo

robot1
1st October 2004, 14:59
I remember Jdobbs planned to encode small segments as CBR - hope I'm not wrong.
Let's wait tonight DVD-RB release: if it's a common CCE bug, I think he will fix it.

govenar
30th December 2004, 00:44
I'm using RB-Opt v0.15 beta, DVD Rebuilder v0.67, CCE SP 2.67.00.27.
I noticed a few problems and have some questions:

1. When I click "Reset Bitrates" in RB-Opt, it crashes.

2. When "Hide Vob-IDs of insignificant size" is unchecked, RB-Opt won't let me change the bitrate of these small Vobs ("Autosized" is checked and greyed out so I can't change it). Is this a bug or is there some reason why this isn't possible?

3. The reason I care about #2 is that I want to use no compression for some of those small Vobs (i.e. set "Reduction" to 100%) (while still compressing all the other Vobs). If that's all I want to do, is there an alternative method I could use if #2 can't be changed?

4. The Duration shown by RB-Opt is 162 minutes, but the correct time is 129 minutes. I guess this is related to 23.976/29.97 fps. (Also when I view a Preview, it's played at the wrong speed, and the external player also shows the wrong 162 minute time.) The final DVD output is fine so it's not a huge deal, just annoying.

5. Does linking Vob-IDs increase quality even if I don't tweak any bitrates? (So, if I ran RB-Opt and just linked some Vob-IDs and changed nothing else, would the results be better than DVD Rebuilder without RB-Opt?)

6. Are there any disadvantages to linking Vob-IDs? i.e. will it mess up any menu navigation or chapter selection? Does linking Vob-IDs change the structure of the final DVD, or does it only affect the encoding step?

If the answer to #5 is yes and to #6 is no, then should I link every Vob-ID, even if they're not really related? The one downside I can think of is that it makes it harder to use different reduction amounts for the different Vob-IDs (but that can still be done with Tweak Cells, right?).

robot1
30th December 2004, 18:02
1. Could you send me the rebuilder.ini and rebuilder.inf files?
I can't reproduce the crash. PM me for details.
2. Small VodID doesn't take much space, so I prefer leave them untouched, as DVD-RB decided. To change their bitrate, you have to uncheck "hide vod-id..." as you noticed
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.
4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97?
The same thing happens for the external player.
DVD-RB uses the right framerate in remuxing, so the output will be always fine.
5. Linking Vob-ID is useful (and "mandatory") if you tweak single cells, but it cause no harm. It can be used to group items, and doesn't mess navigation. It affects only the bitrate distribution.

berndy2001
30th December 2004, 19:12
Originally posted by robot1
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.


in the new RB 0.70, there is a mode called "No Compression". you can use it, to demux your dvd. just copy the m2v-files of your chice to another folder.
(if you are not a vip, use the ReJig-Mode.)

after encoding copy them back.
don't forget to set the related cells in rb-opt to 100%

robot1
30th December 2004, 20:56
Originally posted by berndy2001
in the new RB 0.70, there is a mode called "No Compression". you can use it, to demux your dvd. just copy the m2v-files of your chice to another folder.
(if you are not a vip, use the ReJig-Mode.)

after encoding copy them back.
don't forget to set the related cells in rb-opt to 100% :goodpost:

govenar
31st December 2004, 01:31
Originally posted by robot1
2. Small VodID doesn't take much space, so I prefer leave them untouched, as DVD-RB decided. To change their bitrate, you have to uncheck "hide vod-id..." as you noticed
The problem is that even after I uncheck "hide vob-ids...", it won't let me change the bitrate. Autosized is checked, and greyed out so that I can't uncheck it. (And OPV is selected. I tried checking "Enable OPV for small Vob-IDs" but that didn't help; the VBR/OPV options are greyed out so I can't change them.)
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.
Ok.. I guess in addition to swapping the .m2v files as berndy2001 suggested, I could also just edit the final dvd image later with a re-authoring program to replace the vobs (assuming that I can get around the above problem and set reduction to 100% so they'll be the same size).

With this new RB 0.70 "No Compression" mode, could RB-Opt apply that to only certain Vob-IDs while still compressing others?
4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97?
If you always use 29.97 then that will break PAL DVDs? You could add a button to RB-Opt to let the user choose between NTSC & PAL.
Or, could RB be modified to save the original frame rate somewhere like rebuilder.ini so that RB-Opt can read it?
5. Linking Vob-ID is useful (and "mandatory") if you tweak single cells, but it cause no harm. It can be used to group items, and doesn't mess navigation. It affects only the bitrate distribution.
If I don't tweak single cells though, then linking won't affect anything? So I shouldn't bother to link them unless I tweak a single cell?

jdobbs
31st December 2004, 10:53
4. The Duration shown by RB-Opt is 162 minutes, but the correct time is 129 minutes. I guess this is related to 23.976/29.97 fps. (Also when I view a Preview, it's played at the wrong speed, and the external player also shows the wrong 162 minute time.) The final DVD output is fine so it's not a huge deal, just annoying. All NTSC files are set to 23.976 when encoding -- this is purposeful and is part of the solution for properly encoding hybrid (23.876/29.97) sources. DVD-RB resets the output speeds back to those in the original source during "REBUILD". It's a lot less "annoying" than an incorrectly encoded movie.

jdobbs
31st December 2004, 10:58
4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97? No. Because sources that are telecined only have 23.976 frames physically present in the MPEG stream for each second -- even though the the playback may be at 29.97. The additional pseudo frames are generated from those existing and inserted only to meet the NTSC standard fps. When played back through a progressive player/monitor -- the playback is at 23.976, resulting in a superior picture that matches the original film source.

robot1
31st December 2004, 14:06
Originally posted by govenar
Ok.. I guess in addition to swapping the .m2v files as berndy2001 suggested, I could also just edit the final dvd image later with a re-authoring program to replace the vobs (assuming that I can get around the above problem and set reduction to 100% so they'll be the same size).
You can swap the .m2v files without harm. The settings are grayed out because for short segments DVD-RB uses CBR instead of VBR, so it's not modifiable.
Size is small and you'll have no problems.


With this new RB 0.70 "No Compression" mode, could RB-Opt apply that to only certain Vob-IDs while still compressing others?

It's not possible: The prepare phase is different when you use "No compression" from the normal one.


If I don't tweak single cells though, then linking won't affect anything? So I shouldn't bother to link them unless I tweak a single cell? If you don't tweak single cells, you don't need to link.

MAPE
19th January 2005, 13:25
My question refers that I did some encodes tweaking the end credits bitrate and after saving the changes in Rb-opt, I opened the .Ecl in notepad and noticed that the avg bitrate for this cell was not modified. I linked all Vts in rb-opt and decreased bitrate of the last cell to 1800 avg. and when checked in notepad still was over 2800. Other parameters like CCE's filters, quality precission, bias were correctly modified and saved except the one concerning bitrates.
Tks.

robot1
19th January 2005, 21:27
Originally posted by MAPE
My question refers that I did some encodes tweaking the end credits bitrate and after saving the changes in Rb-opt, I opened the .Ecl in notepad and noticed that the avg bitrate for this cell was not modified. I linked all Vts in rb-opt and decreased bitrate of the last cell to 1800 avg. and when checked in notepad still was over 2800. Other parameters like CCE's filters, quality precission, bias were correctly modified and saved except the one concerning bitrates.
Tks. What if you open the Rebuilder.inf you've saved in RB-Opt again?
Do you find the modified value (1800)?
It's the fastest way to check.
I haven't tested RB-Opt with the newer versions of CCE. Probably I'll post an updated version next week (now working to ECLPro...)

robot1
2nd February 2005, 17:47
This is an intermediate version, just with a bugfix and initial
support for CCE 2.70 (OPV mode).
I hope for the weekend to have a full CCE 2.70 support.

CHANGES:
- Added compatibility to CCE 2.70 in OPV mode
- Fixed a bug in "Reset Bitrates" options
- Added QLB matrix (used in QuEnc by Nic and Dragongodz)


KNOWN ISSUES
- Filters don't work properly with CCE 2.70. Please, avoid filters usage with this CCE version.
- Quantizer Characteristics for CCE 2.70 limited to 64 (and not to 100).

RB-Opt v0.16 (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=23) Mirror by DVDRebuilder.com

archaeo
2nd February 2005, 19:50
...support for CCE 2.70 (OPV mode).

and it works very well in OPV! :D
a great tool.

As I mentioned in another thread, I noticed some undersizing issues at low Q-values using Rebuilder with CCE 2.70. Using RB-Opt, the same project came in perfectly at 4.32 Gb.

TheSeeker
2nd February 2005, 21:00
Originally posted by archaeo
and it works very well in OPV! :D
a great tool.

As I mentioned in another thread, I noticed some undersizing issues at low Q-values using Rebuilder with CCE 2.70. Using RB-Opt, the same project came in perfectly at 4.32 Gb.

I had the exact same experience with 2.70. My dvd came in at 3.59 gb using dvd rb's prediction. With rb-opt using double pass prediction it came in at 4.33!! This tool just keeps getting better and better.

robot1
2nd February 2005, 22:13
:)

kheops
12th February 2005, 00:18
hi all :)

i think i'll mainly use RB-Opt to use custom matrices (the one from the original dvd)
is there a program to extract this matrice from a vob file AND create a valid matrice file for RB-Opt ?

many thanks

robot1
12th February 2005, 08:59
I know of just one program to check matrices:
Restream (http://shh.sysh.de/restream.html)
Anyway it needs the .m2v or .mpv file, so you have to demux a VOB to check the matrices.

The format of the eclpro matrices is simple: it's plain text starting with a tab, and then a row of the matrix.
Example:

08 16 20 23 27 30 32 34
16 16 23 24 29 31 34 38
20 23 27 28 30 35 38 40
23 24 28 29 35 39 40 44
27 29 30 35 39 42 45 50
30 31 35 39 42 46 54 59
32 34 38 40 45 54 62 72
34 38 40 44 50 59 72 84
17 19 21 23 25 27 29 31
19 21 23 25 27 28 29 33
21 23 25 27 29 30 32 37
23 25 27 30 31 34 40 45
25 27 29 31 38 46 54 60
27 28 30 34 46 58 72 74
29 29 32 40 54 72 90 100
31 33 37 45 60 74 100 124

The first 8 lines are the one of the intra matrix.
The second 8 lines are the non intra matrix.

kheops
12th February 2005, 10:11
thanks robot1 for your answer :)

i might give you this link :

http://www.dvdcreation.net/download.php?id=4776

Matrix Extractor v1.10 is really great and allow extracting the matrices from a vob file and export them in the registry or in plain text

before encoding i've used this setting in my rebuilder.ecl file

qmat=
08 08 09 11 13 13 14 17
08 08 11 12 13 14 17 18
09 11 13 13 14 17 17 16
11 11 13 13 13 17 18 20
11 13 13 13 16 17 20 24
13 13 13 16 17 20 24 29
13 12 13 17 19 23 28 34
12 13 17 19 23 28 34 41
08 08 08 09 09 09 09 10
08 08 09 09 09 09 10 10
08 09 09 09 09 10 10 10
09 09 09 09 10 10 10 10
09 09 09 10 10 10 10 11
09 09 10 10 10 10 11 11
09 10 10 10 10 11 11 11
10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11

in the vob files created, the matrices are

8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9
8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9
8 8 8 8 8 9 9 8
8 8 8 8 8 9 9 10
8 8 8 8 8 9 10 12
8 8 8 8 9 10 12 15
8 8 8 9 10 12 14 17
8 8 9 10 12 14 17 21


8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8

i'll try to investigate, if you could give me a hint :)

edit : i've used cce to encode

robot1
12th February 2005, 10:50
CCE version used?
If you load the .ecl with CCE, can you check if the matrix is correct?
Can you try encoding with RB-Opt and selecting one of the enclosed matrices, if the result is correct?

kheops
12th February 2005, 20:50
cce is 2.70.01.05
the ecl loads fine in cce and the matrices setting is correct (the "preset" choice is empty)

i'm doing encoding right now, will give the results

robot1
12th February 2005, 20:57
CCE 2.70 has an "Adaptive Q Matrix switching".
I don't know if it can change the matrix automatically... anyway, I'll add an option to disable this behaviour.

RitchieMad
13th February 2005, 02:06
An EXCELLENT and friendly tool...
I couldn't get right output size on my In Extremo DVD, but once I used RB and set higher bitrate I hit 4.6Gb size. I was lucky, but that's also a proof this tool works!

kheops
13th February 2005, 02:19
2nd encoding, same result

each item in my ecl file IS correct, the matrix is the one i want to use
once created, each m2v file is NOT correct, i already gave my example above (afterwards the vob file has the same matrix but isn't a surprise)

your idea was right, i checked the "Disable adaptive Q-matrix switching" box just for one item and get a correct m2v file :)

in my ecl file, for this item, "q_scale_type=1" is replaced by "q_scale_type=0" so i think the solution isn't too hard to implement, one has just to decide if he want to use this feature or not

what the pdf says about this setting :

Disable adaptive Q-matrix switching

Cinema Craft Encoder SP (later than 2.67) adjusts quantization matrix
automatically to improve the quality of image when Multipass
VBR is selected. However, some DVD player does not support such
MPEG streams as encoded with adaptive quantization matrix, and
may cause the block noise when playback. When you encounter the
problem, you can avoid it with this option.

What is adaptive Q-matrix switching ?

There are some cases that Cinema Craft Encoder SP cannot keep
the minimum bitrate. It is considered to be caused by that the lowest
quantization scale cannot raise the bitrate under a single quantization
matrix. To solve the problem, Cinema Craft Encoder SP automatically
creates other matrices cutting the value of each element in the
matrices by half, quarter and so on, and applies another one to produce
a much lower distortion for much higher bitrate. This switching
of quantization matrix can occur at every GOP.
Thus, adaptive Q-matrix switching can improve the quality of image,
especially with lower bitrate sources or CG works or the edge of
fading out.

thanks for your support :)

SlipGun
16th February 2005, 05:30
I'd like to echo Xuvio's post from August 2004. RB-Opt would be perfect if it had the ability to modify bitrate by frames and not just cells. I would think the best way to do this would be to have an in-program player to preview a cell, much like in Vobblanker, where you can select start- and end-points.

I don't know how much effort this would require in the way of programming, but it would be a great option to have, whenever it may be possible - if it is at all.

jptheripper
16th February 2005, 17:01
wow frame by frame bitrate editing? i cant ever see doing that.

for me the one thing rb-opt needs is the ability to remove a vts for reencoding (ah lal the now defunct rb-keeper). That would be ideal

jdobbs
16th February 2005, 19:03
Remove a VTS for reencoding? Explain.

jdobbs
16th February 2005, 19:05
Originally posted by SlipGun
I'd like to echo Xuvio's post from August 2004. RB-Opt would be perfect if it had the ability to modify bitrate by frames and not just cells. I would think the best way to do this would be to have an in-program player to preview a cell, much like in Vobblanker, where you can select start- and end-points.

I don't know how much effort this would require in the way of programming, but it would be a great option to have, whenever it may be possible - if it is at all. Bitrate allocation by frame... that's what the encoder does during VBR -- you really don't want to mess with that...

robot1
16th February 2005, 19:54
Originally posted by SlipGun
I'd like to echo Xuvio's post from August 2004. RB-Opt would be perfect if it had the ability to modify bitrate by frames and not just cells. I would think the best way to do this would be to have an in-program player to preview a cell, much like in Vobblanker, where you can select start- and end-points.

I don't know how much effort this would require in the way of programming, but it would be a great option to have, whenever it may be possible - if it is at all. The smallest encoding unit in DVD-RB is the segment (usually a cell), so I can't change parameters for smaller units (the risk to screw things up is really high).
Anyawy, the bitrate gain would be relly negligible.

robot1
16th February 2005, 19:55
Originally posted by jptheripper
for me the one thing rb-opt needs is the ability to remove a vts for reencoding (ah lal the now defunct rb-keeper). That would be ideal I'd like to have an option "no compression" ... I hope in an interaction with pgcdemux, one day.

archaeo
16th February 2005, 20:08
robot1,
I usually do tweaks after the RB prepare phase using RBOpt, but hardly ever do any adjustment after the encoding phase. For long projects I run the encoding phase right before I go to bed and then click the Rebuild phase to complete the process before I go to work. I do not have much time to look at the final product until I get home from work. It would be great to have a 2 click option, Prepare + Encoding/Rebuild combined, with shutdown on completion. Can this be setup as a feature in RB-Opt?

robot1
16th February 2005, 20:47
Originally posted by archaeo
robot1,
It would be great to have a 2 click option, Prepare + Encoding/Rebuild combined, with shutdown on completion. Can this be setup as a feature in RB-Opt? I don't think of 2 click option as a feature of RB-Opt... I'd prefer as a feature in DVD-RB.
I think jdobbs will add it... in the meantime I could code a little app to automates the Encoding/Rebuild/(optional)Shutdown - but I'm working to release RB-Opt 0.17 with CCE 2.70 support.

blueboyec
16th February 2005, 20:49
archaeo,

Alot of people do it that way, me included. Many have asked that RB have this option but to no avail.:( It would be great if jobbs would gave RB this option! But if RB-Opt could do it that would be great too.

Blueboy

jdobbs
16th February 2005, 21:05
I hear you... I've just been concentrating on clearing up bugs and inconsistencies lately, so features have taken a back seat. I'm trying to get to v1.0 before the next turn of the century.

jptheripper
16th February 2005, 21:09
Originally posted by robot1
I'd like to have an option "no compression" ... I hope in an interaction with pgcdemux, one day.

yeah sorry for my incoherency. I would love to, say, be able to set a vts at 100% (original size) and have it completely not encoded.

This would be ideal for situations when renecoding xtras and removing languages (but leaving the main movie intact) is sufficient to get to dvd5 size.

Whitespliff
22nd February 2005, 02:52
Originally posted by jptheripper
I would love to say, be able to set a vts at 100% (original size) and have it completely not encoded.Yeah, that would come in handy.

The 2 click feature would be great too :D

robot1
24th February 2005, 18:19
New version:
RB-Opt v0.17 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.17.zip) (right click -> save target as).
Later there will be other mirrors...

Changelog:
Full CCE 2.70 support:
- added switches: "Disable Adaptive Q matrix switching" and "Fades on a static scene"
- added support to CCE 2.70 filters.

ProCoder (EclPRO) is detected and only relevant options are showed.

Added "Block Scan Order" & "Progressive" options in CCE Options
NOTICE:
Don't change these setting unless you know what you are doing... else you will have a bad output.
These settings can be used for PAL films (progressive), encoded as interlaced - you can force DVD-RB to
encode them as progressive (likewise the "Disable interlaced" in the "AVS Options" in DVD-RB).
NTSC users should NEVER change the default values.

berndy2001
24th February 2005, 18:37
hello, im not able to download the file. i always get redirected back to the thread. (the browser download the html-code of the forum)

if you want, i can provide a mirror.

pg55555
24th February 2005, 19:15
berndy2001

Do not Left click on the link. RIGHT click and select "Save target as.." as indicated by Robot1

berndy2001
24th February 2005, 19:22
i did that, i get a file, which contains the html-code of this thread.
im using firefox.

robot1 will mail it to me.

robot1
24th February 2005, 20:06
Mirror
DVD-RB v0.17 (http://dvd-rb.sun.priv.at/RB-Optv0.17.zip)

This should work with every browser.
Thanks to berndy2001

archaeo
25th February 2005, 01:40
robot1,
I've been looking forward to this one! Thanks for all the hard work ;)

Rockas
1st March 2005, 22:26
@Robot1

When using a custom matrix (made for CCE) on RB-Opt it doesn't accept the first value if it is a "16", can you explain me why?

robot1
1st March 2005, 22:28
I think the first value should be 8 (Edit: for intra matrix)
Am I wrong?

Rockas
1st March 2005, 22:58
Well I don't know anything about that but I'm using a custom matrix from a Brazilian forum and the first value is a "16"... CCE accepts it RB-Opt doesn't.

robot1
1st March 2005, 23:19
I've checked.
From CCE SP 2.70 manual:
(1, 1) element in intra block must be 8 under MPEG standard.
I think the first element should be 8

Rockas
1st March 2005, 23:29
That's explains it... thanks

edit: what would be the problems if the value 16 is used?

robot1
1st March 2005, 23:38
If it's not in MPEG standard, I think some players could give problems.

Rockas
1st March 2005, 23:39
OK.. thanx I'll keep that in mind.

archaeo
2nd March 2005, 03:00
robot1,
In v17, which command line enables 'fades on a static scene' in the ecl script? What should it read when I've enabled it?

thanks

raddygast
10th March 2005, 05:27
Ok, this could be a retarded question, but...

How do you install RB-Opt? Do I just make a directory for it? That would seem to be the case but there is a .zip within the archive called RB Opt Matrices or something. Do I have to extract that into the RB Opt directory too, or can RB-Opt somehow read the zip?

TheSeeker
10th March 2005, 14:46
Yea just make a directory for it and unzip the matrices directory inside that one. you dont NEED to do this for rb opt to work, but you must unzip them to be able to load those matrices into rb-opt and use them with CCE.

robot1
10th March 2005, 20:18
Originally posted by archaeo
robot1,
In v17, which command line enables 'fades on a static scene' in the ecl script? What should it read when I've enabled it?

thanks Sorry for the late reply... I didn't read before your post.
Anyway, you've found a bug: the setting simply isn't saved
:(
It will be fixed for next release.

You should find a line
no_move=
with 0 (default) or 1 (enables fades on a static scene)

I don't think is useful in RB-Opt (or in general with CCE) to enable it.
If you use CCE for a single encoding (not in DVD-RB) you should enable it just for the section where you can see the fades on the static scene.