I have a telecined source, so I IVTC'd it. But how can I get rid of flapping mouths?

[jellysandwich]

Most of the video looks good, but there are still some
scenes where the flapping mouths are messed up.

Are there any special filters or anything that can help
me get fix them?

Edit: This is for an anime show.

-jellysandwich

[scharfis_brain]

I like those questions:
'help me, what can I do ?'
without decribing what he/she did and used so far.

good night!

[Asmodian]

Actually this is usually the result of an improperly done IVTC.
Which IVTC did you use? What settings?

[jellysandwich]

Originally posted by Asmodian
Actually this is usually the result of an improperly done IVTC.
Which IVTC did you use? What settings?


I used the default IVTC settings in Gknot. The avisynth
command is:

Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate()

Being a newbie and all to encoding, I have no idea what
that does exactly...

The movie is Samurai X: The Director's Cut. DVD2AVI
reported that the video type was about 75% NTSC and 25%
FILM. I checked Telecide's effects in Virtualdubmod
beforehand, and it seemed to fix most of the problems.
That's why I used Telecide for encoding. I hope that's
enough information.

-jellysandwich

[scharfis_brain]

try using smartdecimate
instead of telecide.decimate

[jellysandwich]

Originally posted by scharfis_brain
try using smartdecimate
instead of telecide.decimate


Will do, thanks.

-jellysandwich

[Chainmax]

Originally posted by jellysandwich:
The movie is Samurai X: The Director's Cut
Now that's a coincidence. My parents just got back from New York and brought me this DVD :).
I was thinking about ripping it as well. I seem to recall seeing mentioned somewhere in this forum that the series was VFR (24/30). Does anyone know if this applies to the Director's Cut OVAs as well? If not, how can I determine if this is the case? I perused through some related threads but found nothing that says how to spot VFR scenarios.

[DarkNite]

Umm... look for combing, or blurring (if postprocessing) on every frame in a sequence, or a section of more than 5 frames with c matches and every frame with motion is combed no matter which match you switch to.

Most commonly sweeping pans (when the "camera" moves vertically or horizontally along the same cell) or high motion with a static background or foreground, scrolling lettering (look at every set of end credits with backgrounds), cgi cutscenes, mid episode logo breaks, or fire... like you've seen. :D

Excel Saga is an excellent example of VFR. That series contains every possible way to use\describe VFR or hybrid material. It's like a training course. ;)

[gizmotech]

And that's the reason I used a small chunk of it for the MKV vfr proof of concept :P

Gizmo.

As for IVTC it really doesn't matter which tool you use at this point you're going to end up w/ these errors unless you start doing manual IVTC correction. The reason being in anime mouth movements are amazingly small, so small that most times they are far below the comb threshold of the IVTC filter set. If you're looking to remove all of these errors I suggest sticking w/ telecide.decimate and learning about it's manual override features, and several assisting programs available.

Gizmo.

[Chainmax]

You know, I re-read the "VFR Proof of concept" thread and did find the procedure to make VFR streams. I don't really understand it. Worst of all, as I already said, I can't try anything on my computer since it crashes whenever I start an encoding job :(.

[joshyg2]

if its VFR, just convert the DVD to 120 fps XviD.

just do a search, on Hybird Anime, or 120 fps and you will find guides.

i have converted a few Anime DVD's using this method, and everytime, i have gotten beautiful smooth fluid progressive video.
for example with Initial D, all the CG scenes are 30 fps, and all the drawn animimation is 24 fps, so to get fluid video, you convert to 120 fps, because they are both a multiple of 120 fps, so the decoder just drops the unwanted frames.

[Chainmax]

Wouldn't that waste a whole lot of video bandwith?

[joshyg2]

I have found that I get much better compression, when I process hybrid Anime correctly, because I don't get any blended frames, every frame is for it self.

And the video isn't actually running or encoded at 120 fps, the video is actualy encoded at 29.97 fps, and using a jap program before and after the encoding puts tags where the video is running at 23.976 fps, so after encoding the tool reports the tagged frames as frame drops, and changes the playback rate to 120 fps. The player (eg. Zoom Player, WMP, Mplayer) then plays the video as 120 fps, but it drops all the frames that are reported as drops.

This means that the 29.97 fps scenes are played as 29.97 fps, and the 23.976 fps scenes are played as 23.976 fps. All the extra frames are dropped by the encoder.

To prove this, get Zoom Player, run the encoded file, right click on the video and choose Information, then you will see the frame-rate indicated at 120 fps, but then you look at the playback rate, and it is constantly changing from 29.97 fps and 23.976 fps from scene to scene.

Smooth Video.

I also find on my Xbox, that XBMC, plays these 120 fps video perfectly. It leaves the 29.97 fps as progressive and Tecelines the 23.976 fps scenes

[Mug Funky]

hmm. i never tried the 120fps thing because i like SVCD too much...

right now i've been double-rate teleciding (it's a kinda wasteful process) and blending the 59.94 down to 50, then running unblend and changefps(25).

it's a REALLY hackful way to work, but the streams i get out have the best of both worlds for PAL - blends for pans, and decimation for animation.

i archive xvid for later transferring to SVCD, so this works well for me (i just wish anime were released in 24fps so i wouldn't have to worry about this stuff)

[Chainmax]

Stupid standards. Everything should just be released on 24fps if possible.

[Chainmax]

Originally posted by DarkNite:
Umm... look for combing, or blurring (if postprocessing) on every frame in a sequence, or a section of more than 5 frames with c matches and every frame with motion is combed no matter which match you switch to.

Most commonly sweeping pans (when the "camera" moves vertically or horizontally along the same cell) or high motion with a static background or foreground, scrolling lettering (look at every set of end credits with backgrounds), cgi cutscenes, mid episode logo breaks, or fire... like you've seen. :D
Only now, after carefully reading your post do I realize those words. :) :sly: I take it that this is yet another case in which wat DVD2AVI reports is not to be trusted then?

So, what do you guys prefer? MKV VFR or 120fps?

[neuron2]

Originally posted by Chainmax
I take it that this is yet another case in which wat DVD2AVI reports is not to be trusted then? DVD2AVI always reports correctly. It is the stream coding or the interpretation of the report that can be wrong. :)

Picky, I know.

[Chainmax]

IIRC from the IVTC tutorial, sometimes when DVD2AVI reports "interlaced" the stream can be perfectly IVTCed.

In any case, are you saying that when DVD2AVI reports "x% FILM, y% NTSC" then VFR is a given?

[neuron2]

All I was saying is that the stream flags are accurately reported. It really has no practical significance. Sorry.

[DarkNite]

I prefer VFR, but my backups are to meet filesize guidelines, and stay below storage quotas between backups (it's just no fun if you aren't trying for something). This stuff has to be stored somewhere after all. ;)

The few occassions I've experimented with SDTV framerate conversions (SDTV(us) 60Hz to 120Hz - 720x480/60i to 720x480/120p) I've ended up with less than what I expected for the time and space invested. That was using HiCon32 though, and I'm sure there are probably much faster ways of going about it. I was just going for the gusto, so to speak.

It was worth it to see the look on my freinds face when he tried to transcode the result to SVCD. "120fps?! WTF! That's a CounterStrike stat, not an XviD encode!" Now that's n00b proofing your final format. :D

[joshyg2]

hmm, DarkNite worried about size?

well, I use exactly the same bitrate settings for my 120 fps clips, then with my 23.976 fps clips. Most of my episodes are around 190 - 350 mb - depending on the length of episodes.

like i said earlier, i find that 120 fps clips compress much better than standard IVTC and decimating.

you just have to experiment with different methods before you dis them. and also encode many different anime series, from different companies, becuase they all vary in quality and frame-rate(s) when they are released, as well as broadcasted.

and about the stuff being stored somewhere,
i manage to store most of my anime series on DVD.

meaning i store entire series on 1 single DVD, as Xvids.
thats because most of the time, if i know how many episodes there are in 1 season or series, i calculate the bitrate so that all the episodes together are equal to 4450 mb.