View Full Version : AVI with AAC?
Hi everybody!
I have a small question here. I'm the "old school" ripper. I rip only to AVI format. I'm not using any another containers like OGM or MKV, because AVI is todays standard and now, I'm not satisfied with OGM and MKV. (So far).
Do You have anyone expirience with AAC streams in AVI format? I want AAC, because it comes with 5.1 channels audio like AC3, but smaller filesize.
I try AVImux v1.16.4 for muxing (VirtualDubMod cannot mux AAC), and it works fine for me, but I have problem with playing movies with AAC streams. Center channel with dialogs play from right channel. But when I play "file.AAC" in Winamp, everything is ok.
I use CoreAAC v1.0b9 DirectShow filter.
Thx for every ideas.
KpeX
5th April 2004, 21:28
AFAIK nothing but avimux can mux aac into avi. I'd recommend trying a new format, you'll enjoy lower overhead, faster seeking, and many other advantageous features. Plus you'll be able to test if this is an AAC in AVI problem or an AAC in other container problem.
Originally posted by KpeX
AFAIK nothing but avimux...
Thx. I tried mux to MKV. Problem is probably in DirectShow filter. It is the same problem. Or AAC is wrong converted from AC3.
KpeX
5th April 2004, 21:43
If the AAC file plays back correctly, but plays wrong in both MKV and AVI, this is definitely a playback problem. Open up such an MKV or AVI in graphedit and let us know what filters are in use.
I found, where is the problem.
5.1 channel AAC is wrong converted from original AC3. I converted it via AacMachine.
I try to download foobar2000 Nero Encoder/Decoder plugin "foo_nero.dll" to convert AC3 to HE-AAC, but Case's webpage seems to be down.
Do You anyone know, where can I find it? Thx.
Thx KpeX too for AudioFAQ.
KpeX
5th April 2004, 23:02
Yes, Psytel is known to produce wrong ordered multichannel files. Here is the link for foo_nero that i just updated the FAQ with: http://koti.mbnet.fi/chastity/foo_nero.zip
Thx KpeX too for AudioFAQ.I (mostly) just organize it:). but I appreciate it nonetheless
Thx very much KpeX!
Now, foobar2000 works fine.
After a few days of "testing" to make AVI with 6-channel AAC, I must say this:
AVI with AAC 2.0 (stereo) works fine, no problem with playing.
AVI with AAC 5.1 is horrible, choppy playback (I try many interleaving and always same things).
So finally I must say, that creating AVI with 6-channel AAC is impossible at this moment. :( Mybe in the future...
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm totally tired out with this.
And last, I must thanks very much KpeX with his Audio FAQ.:thanks:
bond
8th April 2004, 18:14
Originally posted by JnZ
I have a small question here. I'm the "old school" ripper. I rip only to AVI format. AVI is todays standardit seems its time to become a "new school" ripper ;)
and if care about standards that much use the .mp4 container, cause thats the format specified in the mpeg-4 standard
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 18:52
AVI with AAC 5.1 is horrible, choppy playback (I try many interleaving and always same things).Arff. Seems that I'll have to try some stuff.
Is the audio or video playback b0rked, or both?
Originally posted by alexnoe
Is the audio or video playback b0rked, or both?
Audio is OK, but video is out of synchronization, sometime video plays faster and somtime video freeze.:angry:
I want AAC in AVI, beeee:mad:
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 19:08
Even easier would be: Could you send me a few MB of that AAC file?
Mail: noe@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 19:39
Originally posted by alexnoe
Arff. Seems that I'll have to try some stuff.
Is the audio or video playback b0rked, or both? I've only muxed a few short encodes but it seems to work OK for me. If the video stream is XviD it might be those multiple b-frames causing problems again.
Anyways, here's a short sample encode (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/XviD_with 3_AAC-HE_audio_streams.zip) with an: -
XviD (720x576 'anamorphic signalled') video stream
1No 6Ch AAC-HE audio stream
2No 2Ch AAC-HE audio streams
All wrapped up in the 'most excellent' MP4 container.
Please let me know, alexnoe, if you want the same again in an AVI container
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 19:41
I need the source streams as single files.
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 20:06
Originally posted by alexnoe
I need the source streams as single files. OK, job done!
'This' (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/XviD_with_3_AAC-HE_audio_streams_AVI.zip) zip folder contains the separate streams. And 'this' (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/Separate_Streams.zip) zip folder contains the same streams muxed by me.
Please let me know when you've downloaded them so I can remove them from my 'speedy' server?
Cheers
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:08
Downloaded...
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 20:10
"Fook-me that was fast"!
Cheers
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:11
I have a 100 MBit/s connection.
The muxed file plays at warp speed here...
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
OK, job done!
Hm, when I play Your AVI, I have the same problem, with 6-channel audiostream, video is playing at warp speed and out of synchronization with audio, but when I switch 2-channel stream, everythings OK. So where is the problem?
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:18
The SBR flag is not set...there is again some stuff b0rked. I know it already worked...
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 20:23
Originally posted by JnZ
Hm, when I play Your AVI, I have the same problem, with 6-channel audiostream, video is playing at warp speed and out of synchronization with audio, but when I switch 2-channel stream, everythings OK. So where is the problem? Works fine for me with the latest version of MPC!
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:31
Here, it doesn't.
But interesting: The SBR setting is ignored. I just found out that AVI-Mux GUI 1.16.4 ignores the SBR setting for AVI output due to a bug. I fixed it, and setting it or not in the AVI headers doesn't matter for the result. It continues to play b0rked...seems that the decoder now autodetects SBR/no SBR...
Originally posted by alexnoe
The SBR flag is not set...there is again some stuff b0rked. I know it already worked...
What the h... is SBR? I noticed in AVImux, that exists SBR flag, when I add AAC, but i don't know what is it. Any explanation?
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:35
Theoretically you need to tell avi-mux gui whether your have a normal AAC or a HE-AAC file. The 2nd one uses 'SBR'. But it seems that the decoder doesn't need to know this any longer :o
Originally posted by alexnoe
Theoretically you need to tell avi-mux gui whether your have a normal AAC or a HE-AAC file. The 2nd one uses 'SBR'...
But I test HE-AAC and LC-AAC, video is playing at warp speed in both cases.
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:40
The VBR header is bad...my file plays now, after fixing it :)
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 20:40
Hmm. I used your 1.16.4 private build.
I don't know whether MPC correctly detects the SBR flag (if it's there) or not. But it's well weird that it works for me, on my buggy 800MHz P3!
I'm currently in the process of having a big PC swap around at home, so I'm unable to play the file on another PC!
Cheers
EDIT: Did you say 100 MBit/s connection (12.5MB/sec) How long did it take to download both files ie 10.6MB?
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:45
The download was done when the download manager of mozilla popped up, so it is hard to say...
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Works fine for me with the latest version of MPC!
I test MPC, and the same problem...
Originally posted by alexnoe
The VBR header is bad...my file plays now, after fixing it :)
So what can I do with my AVIs?
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
EDIT: Did you say 100 MBit/s connection (12.5MB/sec) How long did it take to download both files ie 10.6MB?
I have 100mbit too, but from You I downloaded at cca 450kB/sec.
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 20:50
Originally posted by alexnoe
The download was done when the download manager of mozilla popped up, so it is hard to say... So it's around a second then?
bond
8th April 2004, 20:53
Originally posted by alexnoe
Theoretically you need to tell avi-mux gui whether your have a normal AAC or a HE-AAC file. The 2nd one uses 'SBR'. But it seems that the decoder doesn't need to know this any longercoreaac now has a workaround detecting he-aac even without flag, but still normally such a flag is needed/expected by a decoder
you will see if a flag is in the file if coreaac reports "aac+sbr", without flag it will not report it (but still decode it correctly)
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
So it's around a second then?
Download about 700MB (1CD) takes about 60 seconds...but only on local LAN, from outside i registered slower downloads... ie 4,5MB/sec etc.
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 20:56
Test this file: http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Fun/test.avi
If it works, i'll provide a link to some 1.16.4.1 inofficial untested version...
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 20:58
Originally posted by JnZ
What the h... is SBR? I noticed in AVImux, that exists SBR flag, when I add AAC, but i don't know what is it. Any explanation? SBR is AAC-HE (High Efficiency). If it's going to be your intension to use 6Ch AAC audio at low bitrates, then AAC-HE is the way to go.
I used Foobar2000 and selected: Variable Bitrate - Internet::Medium
When encoded as an .aac file, MPC plays the stream with its own 'built in' filter. When the AAC stream is within an .mp4 container the stream plays with Core AAC.
Cheers
Originally posted by alexnoe
Test this file: http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Fun/test.avi
If it works, i'll provide a link to some 1.16.4.1 inofficial untested version...
Wow, this thing is SOLVED. Your test.avi plays normally. THX, very much. I'm waiting for this unofficial version...
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
SBR is AAC-HE (High Efficiency).
Thx for explanation. I didn't know that SBR is HE-AAC.
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 21:04
http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/amg.zip <= some stuff in the Audio stream tree itself is b0rked atm, especially moving streams around, because i again changed some internal stuff.... i'll have to fix some more stuff, but you hopefully can mux 6ch aac with it.
Also, the SBR setting should be used again.
So when I'm adding HE-AAC, then I must check SBR in Avimux, and when I add LC-AAC then leave unchecked? If I'm wrong, then correct me. Thx.
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 21:09
Yep, played ok here too.
I tried the stream in hardware with my Xcard but for some crappy reason it does not like AAC in AVI!
It can switch between the streams but you can't hear anything?? AAC in .RM or .ram works along with .mp4 though :D
Cheers
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 21:11
Originally posted by JnZ
Thx for explanation. I didn't know that SBR is HE-AAC. SBR = Spectural Band Replication (or Replacement)
Cheers
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 21:21
JnZ: exactly.
WARNING:
AVI-Mux GUI 1.16.4 and older ones will NOT read back any AVI-with-AAC files writting by this fixed version or any later version.
Originally posted by alexnoe
http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/amg.zip
I just try my rip with 6-channel HE-AAC and LC-AAC, and E V E R Y works fine! Both 6-channels AAC plays correctly, many thanx You, alexnoe.
I'm pleased, that I found a little bug in Your EXCELLENT program.:) EDIT: Hm, I'm correcting Me: You found the bug.:D
And now, I can stay "old school" riper. Great.:cool:
bond
8th April 2004, 21:26
Originally posted by JnZ
And now, I can stay "old school" riper. Great.so using new codecs is old school, but new containers are not?
doesnt make sense to me ;)
Originally posted by bond
so using new codecs is old school, but new containers are not?
doesnt make sense to me ;)
Exactly I mean: I can stay with AVI container...:D
EDIT: I'm scared:scared: to go to rip to another container like MKV, because it is too young and still not finally done. AVI is old and in most cases stable (and sometimes it surprises me);)
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 21:28
I'm pleased, that I found a little bug in Your EXCELLENT program.If every bug were that easy to fix :p
Good that AVI has been saved once more :rolleyes:
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 21:32
Originally posted by JnZ
Exactly I mean: I can stay with AVI container...:D Die AVI, Die :D. It's like a bad Dracula movie and alexnoe keeps bringing him back!
Cheers
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Die AVI, Die :D
This seems to go to be a flamewar, so peace! I'm waiting for MPEG-4 as god blessing, but it's still not in final stage. So today, AVI is my choice.:p
EDIT: Howgh, I'm done. This thread has been solved.
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 21:44
JnZ: Some time ago, people thought that AVI would be too old to support anything new.
Then I implemented DTS muxing, started to fix AC3 problems people have with NanDub, implemented SRT and SSA muxing to AVI, and now AAC.
-> some people believed AVI to be dead already, and I disappointed them :D
Getting SRT-in-AVI work alone took about 60 hours of coding (on 4 and a half days...), but well, hacking new stuff into AVI is fun.
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 21:48
Originally posted by JnZ
This seems to go to be a flamewar, so peace! I'm waiting for MPEG-4 as god blessing, but it's still not in final stage. So today, AVI is my choice.:p The Doom9 forum is full of information regarding tools for putting Mpeg4 video and AAC audio into an MP4 container. The easiest tool is MP4UI.
Why not give it a go?
EDIT: alexnoe. You are indeed "the man"!
Is there any chance you could make a tool that can put an 'anamorphic signal' in an Mpeg4 stream that has not got one?
Cheers
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 21:49
Because it's not AVI :p
Originally posted by alexnoe
Because it's not AVI :p
Yes! AVI is AVI. I'm very pleased, that exists man like You elexnoe. I'm fanatic like You, to make new things for old stuffs.
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 22:00
Originally posted by JnZ
I'm fanatic like You, to make new things for old stuffs. And you can't say fairer than that!
I'm really glad you got what you wanted. And very quickly too!
Now where can I get one of those 12.5MB/s internet connections?
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 22:05
I have that connection on the university campus :)
Is there any chance you could make a tool that can put an 'anamorphic signal' in an Mpeg4 stream that has not got one?This sounds like work, right? I mean, i don't know anything about mpeg4 bitstreams so far...
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Now where can I get one of those 12.5MB/s internet connections?
At university college, for example.:D
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 22:23
Originally posted by alexnoe
I have that connection on the university campus :)
This sounds like work, right? I mean, i don't know anything about mpeg4 bitstreams so far... Well I realise you love AVI. But joking apart, all us .MP4 container users could do with somebody like you to make a really good .MP4 muxer... MP4UI is good, but it's not perfect. And GraphEdit is well, GraphEdit!
How about it? You would truly become the "container king"!
Cheers
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 22:25
Where's the complete MP4 file format docu? ;)
bond
8th April 2004, 23:07
Originally posted by JnZ
AVI is old and in most cases stable avi is stable? like aac-in-avi? ;)
you should ask people with avi standalones how stable the avi hacks are :D
Originally posted by JnZ
I'm waiting for MPEG-4 as god blessing, but it's still not in final stage.sure the mpeg-4 standard (including mp4) is finalized
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Is there any chance you could make a tool that can put an 'anamorphic signal' in an Mpeg4 stream that has not got one?i will not take that long anymore till a tool able to do that will come out :)
Originally posted by alexnoe
Where's the complete MP4 file format docu?somewhere hitten in the depths of google ;)
alexnoe
8th April 2004, 23:20
you should ask people with avi standalones how stable the avi hacks are Those players don't even read avis without hacks...
bond
8th April 2004, 23:21
Originally posted by alexnoe
Those players don't even read avis without hacks... yeah, and even this doesnt work most of the time ;)
SeeMoreDigital
8th April 2004, 23:33
Originally posted by alexnoe
Those players don't even read avis without hacks... Very true!
I can play most Mpeg4 AVI's in hardware with my Xcard and 2Ch AAC in MP4 in hardware is a breeze too. But for some reason I can't play AAC in AVI!
AAC in MKV works OK. AAC in RAM or RM is OK too!
It's all very sad...
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