CCE-Settings mostly incorrect

[himan2001]

Hello JDOBBS,

I work with CCE 2.50, DVD-RB 0.27 under SpywareXP and W2k

Some things in the generated ECL-File ares not ok.

First: I´am in PAL Land and i have mostly Progressive Material.

I figure out that a lot of settings i used since years are not correctly setted:

1.) The variable: qulity_precision=XX

must be the SAME as in setup. DVD2DVD-R and DVD2SVCD set this correctly. after the last "divding" change in DVD-RB is not!

For working with MultiPass VBR the Range is mostly from 14-18 in single steps for Optimal Quality. Not in steps of 16/32 or something else. (for all CCE-Versions!?) I think you mean Single-Pass QC instead Multipass. There exists a extra variable for a single-pass. That is not the same variable as for Multipass-VBR!

Other Settings:

i still use since years:

DVD=1 The Header is always 9.8 MBit and no Player/Auth-Progranmm, etc. has Problems. User settable is ok. so every one can choose what he like. On or off ;-)

Luminance = You always set luminance_level=0. Correct is: 1. Otherwise
you produce Material for PC instead Standalone Player.

non_linear=1 is correct for MPEG2. linear is for MPEG 1, you use 0!

progressive=1 is correct in pal Land. My Sources have this Flag setted, you always set this to 0. This is only a headerflag in the Stream, that switches some Softwareplayers to another Playbackmode.
Please use the same Type for the Output format als it comes from Input-Format. In the CCE 2.50 manual you read some things about this Flag and Players ;-)

alternate_scan=0 you use 1 !

When the source is progressive, please use ZickZack Scan or alernate_scan=0. in nearly all progressive Sources ZickZack is used.
Alternate Scans are used with Interleaced Material. Your can read
the correct Setting from the Source-File mostly correctly.
Make it user settable is best.

For now i always edit the ecl-file by hand and the resulting files are
great. You wrote the best Tool i ever found since years. A Donation from me will follow ;-)

I have a more specific Problem with Series-DVD´s, like Angel/Buffy/Stargate. Here are a lot of PGC´s used instead multiple VTS´s for the Epsiodes. Angel, as sample, has only 1 VTS with 4 PGC´s/Epsiodes
inside. The Problem comes up, when BONUS Material are included
in the Same VTS. The Bonus Material ist mostly 4:3 instead 16:9 and and is interlaced. Top-Field/Buttom Field ist DIFFERENTLY setted, that comes too! :-( You split up the Entire DVD to a lot of small cells/chapters. For these parts i must manually look AVS-File for AVS-Files and make manual corrections for the right CCE-Flags, but a main problem is the mpeg2dec3DG-Call:

the extension (interlaced=true) instead () must be called ONLY for the problem-parts, not only cce-seetings to set!

But in the Moment this is only possible for the Entire DVD.
You generate only one d2v-File for the Entire VTS. I Think the method must be changed to handle this Mixed Mode Material.

I found a DVD where the Episodes are PROGRESSIVE/PAL, other Bonus
was Interlaced, Top First the next Bottom First, then Bonus PROGRESSIVE and so on. all on the the Same DVD :-(!

So we have a need for manual selecting the RIGHT method for DECODING and ENCODING for THIS Parts ;-)

The Bug with the NOT written Plugin Path in the avs-files still exists.

I think DotItFast4u has a good scheme for selecting the parts from
the selection-Menu. But when here are some Settings not settable for
problemticly Bonus-Material, i Always can fix EVERY Part
in the resulting AVS Scripts. Here is fixing simpler. because
every Part, or let me say PGC, results in a single avs-File. Same like
for VTS´s. With cutting at every chapter-point the entire DVD´s is a lot of hand-work.

I think one of the most whishes from all users here is an CCE-Settingseditor, that gives access to ALL CCE-Variables.

I hope my Report is a little Help for you.

Himan

BTW: i ONLY makes Tests with Series-DVD´s. Here Are StarGate and Angel/Buffy Material one of the Best Samples for Tests (The DVD´s with the Bonus Material in "Mixed-mode", of Course ;-) )

[RB]

Luminance Level in CCE actually doesn't matter for YUY2 input (which DVD-RB generated AVS files generate), read the CCE FAQ.

Linear/Non-Linear: ignored in CCE 2.66/2.67 anyway, there's no setting for it in these versions.

About the interlaced settings: I'm sure jdobbs will automatically adjust the CCE settings to match the original stream at the cell level in a later version. Right now it's best to simply always use ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true), this has almost no negative effect for progressive sources. Also, using alternate scan for progressive sources has almost no impact on the final Q levels, most DVDs are encoded this way anyway.

[jdobbs]

DVD=1 The Header is always 9.8 MBit and no Player/Auth-Progranmm, etc. has Problems. User settable is ok. so every one can choose what he like. On or off ;-) What is the problem? Remember I am doing the authoring...

For working with MultiPass VBR the Range is mostly from 14-18 in single steps for Optimal Quality. Not in steps of 16/32 or something else. (for all CCE-Versions!?) I think you mean Single-Pass QC instead Multipass. There exists a extra variable for a single-pass. That is not the same variable as for Multipass-VBR! Are you saying I shouldn't allow the range that CCE provides?
progressive=1 is correct in pal Land. My Sources have this Flag setted, you always set this to 0. This is only a headerflag in the Stream, that switches some Softwareplayers to another Playbackmode. This changes depending upon the source. It is set to match the source.The Bonus Material ist mostly 4:3 instead 16:9 and and is interlaced. Top-Field/Buttom Field ist DIFFERENTLY setted, that comes too! :-( You split up the Entire DVD to a lot of small cells/chapters. For these parts i must manually look AVS-File for AVS-Files and make manual corrections for the right CCE-Flags, but a main problem is the mpeg2dec3DG-CallAgain, the aspect ratio is recorded and kept form the original material. You generate only one d2v-File for the Entire VTS. I Think the method must be changed to handle this Mixed Mode Material. Actually I do two .D2V files -- and then use the correct .D2V depending upon the source.

Most of the settings used are based upon experiences I've had with CCE since about 2001. But I can be wrong and I'll do more research.

[himan2001]

The Point is:

Your´re are all talking: CCE 2.66/2.67 !

but: Really: This encoder produces Problems over Problems.
Exceptions here, Exceptions there :-(

I´m am back to CCE 2.50. Here all Material has 100% Success-Rate.
No Hassle ;-)

So a few Settings are Importent for the "Standard" Version of CCE ;-)

Himan

[himan2001]

>Are you saying I shouldn't allow the range that CCE provides?


In the old Version the Qualityfactor was ok, was 1:1 in the CCE-Template (ok. Now when i select 15 (my default) your Proggy makes 24 from it (your factor 1.56 for CCE 2.50).

But the best resulats are in the Quality-Range from 14-19 in single steps.

Suggestens was: bitrate below 2200=17 2300=16 and above 2500 15 or less. Such things stands in a lot of dvd2SVCD manuals and dvd/svcds conversation docs ;-)

Himan

[RB]

Originally posted by himan2001
progressive=1 is correct in pal Land. My Sources have this Flag setted, you always set this to 0. This is only a headerflag in the Stream, that switches some Softwareplayers to another Playbackmode.

No, it's not. There's a big difference in how chroma is stored between interlaced and progressive YV12. IOW, DVDs aren't encoded progressive and then "flagged" interlaced. That would mess up the colors. If the MPEG2 picture header says progressive_frame=0 then that's what it is, it's not a progressive frame.

[mrbass]

Originally posted by jdobbs
quote:DVD=1 The Header is always 9.8 MBit and no Player/Auth-Progranmm, etc. has Problems. User settable is ok. so every one can choose what he like. On or off ;-)

What is the problem? Remember I am doing the authoring...


Shouldn't 9.8 MBit be off which is the default for CCE like himan2001 says? Maybe I'm confusing this with SVCD encoding days. Say if one needed no compression wouldn't this touch the original video headers when really it need not too?

Here's from the CCE manual

If DVD compliant is selected in the video settings screen, a stream is created assuming that DVD will be created. In this case, the following is executed.

Changing frame size --- If the frame size of the original picture does not conform to DVD standards, the frame size is changed. When the frame rate is 29.97 fps or 30 fps, the frame size is changed to 720×480, and when the frame rate is 25 fps, the frame size is changed to 720 × 576. Even if the frame size is changed, the original image is not enlarged, but is matted.

Bitrate limitation ---In the DVD standard, the maximum bitrate of Video ES is limited to 9.8 Mbps. In the MPEG-2 VIDEO international standard (ISO/IEC 13818-2), the size of an individual picture is limited using the concept of “VBV (Video Buffering Verifier)”. In the concept of VBV, a stream having a 9.8 Mbps bitrate can create GOP which has a size equivalent to a maximum of 11 Mbps. This perfectly
conforms to the MPEG-2 VIDEO international standard (ISO/IEC 13818-2), but whether it conforms to the 9.8 Mbps restriction of DVD depends on interpretation.

If DVD compliant is selected, instantaneous bitrate in GOP units is controlled to be a maximum of 9.8Mbps. During VBR operation, 9.8 Mbps is always written to the sequence header regardless the specified maximum bitrate. 9.8 Mbps is the maximum bitrate allowed under the DVD standard. 9.8 Mbps is used here because in the case of the VBV model in VBR, bit allocation planning by the encoder becomes more flexible as the maximum bitrate becomes higher, therefore higher image quality can be achieved.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by mrbass
Shouldn't 9.8 MBit be off which is the default for CCE like himan2001 says? Maybe I'm confusing this with SVCD encoding days. Say if one needed no compression wouldn't this touch the original video headers when really it need not too?

Here's from the CCE manual When you are reencoding, the original headers are long gone anyway. The only time it doesn't make good sense to have the flag on is when you use half-d1 -- and DVD-RB turns it off then... Your quote from the manual gives very good reasons why you should use the DVD compliant flag when building for a DVD.In the concept of VBV, a stream having a 9.8 Mbps bitrate can create GOP which has a size equivalent to a maximum of 11 Mbps. This perfectly conforms to the MPEG-2 VIDEO international standard (ISO/IEC 13818-2), but whether it conforms to the 9.8 Mbps restriction of DVD depends on interpretation.Setting this flag prevents the conflict. There are too many people in the "optimizing" forums who are convinced they know more than Cinema Craft about their encoder.

[onesoul]

Originally posted by himan2001
>In the old Version the Qualityfactor was ok, was 1:1 in the CCE-Template (ok. Now when i select 15 (my default) your Proggy makes 24 from it (your factor 1.56 for CCE 2.50).

- Changed the range of values in CCE "Quality_prec" dropdown so it now accepts values of 0-64 (to be compliant with newer versions). When used with version 2.50 the value is multiplied by 1.56 (range 0-100) to get comparable output.

Just do your math (15/1.56). ;)