90 - 99min CD Burners

[SeeMoreDigital]

Some time ago, quite by accident, I managed to get hold of an Mitsumi CR-48XETE CD burner.

I did'nt realise until a friend of mine brought round a few blank 99min Infinite CD~R's that upon inserting the media into the drive, windows explorer recognised the disc as being 799MB instead of 702MB.

I decided to search round to see if there were any other drives that could automatically correctly recognise 90min (800MB) or even 99min (900MB) media.

So far I've only been able to find this (http://www.medeainternational.com/info/90min.htm) on Media Internationals web site and this (http://www.disc4you.de/news/99min.html) on a web site by disc4you. Both lists however are quite old and the drives are most probably not made anymore.

So I wondered if any forum members own or use 90-99min burners and if so what media are you using.

Personally, as my burner can only see up to 799MB I'm using Philips CD-R90 media. My friend with 99min Infinite media has an (2year old) LG burner and windows explorer recognises his Infinite media as being 899MB.

Just to confirm. No over-burning features have been initialised.

And this might make you laugh, even my 20 year old Philips CD101 'Compact Disc Player' spins the discs perfectly. Which is pretty amazing when you consider audio CD's were only a maximum of 648MB and blank media did'nt exist until 10 years later!

Cheers

[smiller667]

The most up-to-date database containing information regarding 99min burning capabilities is probably maintained by the Feurio author (Feurio is a nice audio cd authoring software): http://www.feurio.com/English/Writerdb/frame_seek.html
It does not, however, report if the burner reports the correct size of media, it is focused on writing abilities. Some comments are in German only.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've just had a thought.

It might be useful if DVD burner uses to confirm whether their drives can correctly identify 90min (800MB) and 99min (900MB) media too.

Go on. You know you want to!

Cheers

[alexnoe]

-> most 90+ min discs contain a capacity of 80 mins in their ATIP
-> very few such discs contain the 'correct' capacity in their ATIP
-> very few drives can read that correct capacity then
-> your drive will tell what the ATIP says

The drive will read exactly what the disc says, mostly (mod 80min)

The easiest way to find out if it works if recording such a disc and seeing if the drive throws a write error at you before it finishes or not...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by alexnoe
The drive will read exactly what the disc says, mostly (mod 80min)
This is why I'm interested in this subject.

There might be a lot of us on the forum who have 90-99min CD burners and don't realise it. And if they purchased 'properly manufactured high capacity blank media' which is known to work, such as 90min Philips and 99min Infinite, it might prove beneficial to them!

Personally I would rather use 'known high capacity media' than use the 'over burning method'

Also, it's possible for WinXP users to use the 'Send To' function and burn on to 90-99min media!

Cheers

[alexnoe]

There might be a lot of us on the forum who have 90-99min CD burners and don't realise it99min media is not as nice as it seems.
Personally I would rather use 'known high capacity media' than use the 'over burning method'There is no reason for this.

And most 99min media is of poor quality. The only manufacturer which makes high quality 90min media is TDK. I seriously doubt that Philips makes 99min media. Last time I had Philips CD-R i got CMC (AKA cheaply made crap). What is the manufacturer code of those discs?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by alexnoe
... I seriously doubt that Philips makes 99min media. Last time I had Philips CD-R i got CMC (AKA cheaply made crap). What is the manufacturer code of those discs? I don't think they do 99min media either!

However, their 90min media seems very reliable. It would be interesting to find out who's media it is though.

The codes I can see are around the centre of both types of media are as follows: -

Philips CD-R90: 09A0804 (and 030706201235)
Infiniti RSCD99CP: J326G4 1 08264572A19

I have tried other 'so called' 90-99min media, but when the discs are inserted into my Mitsumi CR-48XETE CD burner, they are all identified as being just 702MB.


Cheers

[alexnoe]

I meant the ATIP code...
I have tried other 'so called' 90-99min media, but when the discs are inserted into my Mitsumi CR-48XETE CD burner, they are all identified as being just 702MB.which is absolutely normal and correct.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by alexnoe
I meant the ATIP code... How do I find this?

Cheers

[alexnoe]

- cdrecord -atip
- feurio
- nero cd speed -> disc info

[bond]

can i check if my burner handles 90/99min burning without having to buy such a disk? :D

[alexnoe]

No, you can't: A few drives show a different behavior in simulation mode than in real write mode...however, if even simulation fails, it is unlikely that real write works.

You could also tell me what drive you have...maybe I know if it handles 99min discs :p

[bond]

philips cdd4801 cd-r/rw :p

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
can i check if my burner handles 90/99min burning without having to buy such a disk? :D I'll post you some blanks if you like!

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by alexnoe
- cdrecord -atip
- feurio
- nero cd speed -> disc info Is there a particular little setup.exe I could use. I don't really want to install a massive disc burning application on the PC that has the Mitsumi CR-48XETE drive.

I don't do much CD burning!

Cheers

[alexnoe]

then use cdrecord

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi,

When I do a Google search for 'cdrecord' I get 189,000 entries. And this one (http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/cdrecord.html) comes top of the list.

Given that I don't know exactly what I'm looking for, a link would be most helpful please!

Cheers

[alexnoe]

Binaries and cygwin1.dll: http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/t/tplank/

call
cdrecord -scanbus
to find the aspi address of your cd writer (form: x,y,z)

call
cdrecord -dev=x,y,z -atip

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'm sorry Alex,

If applications like this don't come with a GUI I'm lost!

I guess I can't help you :(

[smiller667]

Umm ... guys, why make it so complicated? If a gui is essential, try cdrid (available from e.g. afterdawn), it should be able to identify most discs. I say "most" cause it wasn't updated since 2002 (iirc) and is no longer supported.

Alternatively, Liteon's "smartburn" utility should read atips as well - get it from liteonit.com

@bond: I guess you didn't click that db link I gave above ... yes, your burner is listed in there :).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Unfortunately CDRIdentifier (v1.63) was of no use!

Apart from not even being able to find my CD~R drive. It's probably too old (02Mar2001) anyway!

Cheers


EDIT: At last I've found an active link to Liteon's SmartBurn utility (v3.1.7) (http://www.liteonit.com/ODD/English/e_downloads/e_utility.asp)

[SeeMoreDigital]

OK. I've just tested the 90 and 99min media with TWO different drives and here are the results....

As reported using my Mitsumi CR-48XETE CD burner-
Philips CD-R90 Media: -
Drive Type = CD-RW
Disc Type = CDR
Material = Phthalocyanine
Lead In = 96:43:37
Lead Out = 90:59:74
Nominal Capacity = 799.51MB
Manufacturer Maybe = RiTEK Corporation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 2X (Write)

Infiniti 99min Media: -
Drive Type = CD-RW
Disc Type = CDR
Material = Phthalocyanine
Lead In = 96:43:37
Lead Out = 90:59:74
Nominal Capacity = 799.51MB
Manufacturer Maybe = RiTEK Corporation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 2X (Write)


As reported using my NEC ND-1000NA DVD burner -
Philips CD-R90 Media: -
Drive Type = DVD+R/+RW
Disc Type = CDR
Material = Phthalocyanine
Lead In = 96:43:37
Lead Out = 79:59:74
Nominal Capacity = 702.83MB
Manufacturer Maybe = RiTEK Corporation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 8X (Write)

Infiniti 99min Media: -
Drive Type = DVD+R/+RW
Disc Type = CDR
Material = Phthalocyanine
Lead In = 96:43:37
Lead Out = 79:59:74
Nominal Capacity = 702.83MB
Manufacturer Maybe = RiTEK Corporation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 8X (Write)

According to the above, the media is identical. However each drive reports a different capacity!

[Wolfman]

AH, I have used almost exclusively my mitsumi 4809te with infiniti 99min cdr and I find that they are not recognized in the drive as 99min by Nero5.5.10. They do however work absolutely great, up to 870mb.. The point about nero is minor but does mean that the final session of a multi-session burn must start before the normal end of an 80min Cdr. However for avi encodes they are superb and the added Mbs allow great quality. Stupidly(?) I didnt even check whether my dvd players could handle them , but they do. Infiniti are excellent I have never had a coaster except for one, which I overburnt to 880mb. I will buy their DVD's with confidence.
http://www.medeainternational.com/info/90min.htm
has a big list of what is compatible with 90/99 min media.
As alexnoe said Ithink that software simply reads the atip from disk this does Not really relate to the true size of media

Also my mates 4yo sony DVD player reads em fine as well.
And my Pc dvd drive.
DATAWRITE datasafe also make 90min discs (why have 90 when u can 99)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Wolfman,

Just to confirm. When you put a blank 99min Infiniti disc in your Mitsumi 4809TE burner. What does Explorer report the Total/Free 'Disc Space' to be... 702MB or more?

Also what version O/S are you using?

Cheers

[Arky]

I use Nero for all my burning.

As I reported to Medea International (http://www.medeainternational.com/info/90min.htm) , the Yamaha CRW-F1 writes the Infiniti 99min disks superbly. It never falters, and you can write the disks all the way up to 99:59:74 without a hitch. Sadly, Yamaha pulled this model not long after it was released (I never found out the official reason, but I do know that I have had 2disks wrecked by the drive because it 'let go' of them at high speed, the result being that I had extensive score marks on the disk surface where the ricocheting disk's surface had been squeezed between the clamper mechanism. I suspect this is the reason for Yamaha's withdrawal of the drive. I should point out that this has only ever happened when there has been a conflict on the drive's IDE channel, with a second instance of EAC being initiated while the first is already using the drive (EAC defaults to the last-used drive, when you start the program). Despite these disk wreckages, the CRW-F1 is still my most reliable writing drive and I still recommend it to anyone who can lay their hands on one.

My LiteOn 52x24x52 drive (apologies - I can't recall the precise model number, but I can check if anyone really wants to know) also does a great job, and can actually write up to 100:59:74, but does have a tendency to screw up the lead-in when I do this (the result being that my Arcam CD player cannot begin playback on Track1, but IS, however, capable of starting on Track 2 or 3, and then reversing to play Track 1 without difficulty). Keeping things under 100mins seems to result in generally-successful burns, but still not at the extreme reliability level of the 99min burns from the Yamaha CRW-F1.

My plextor 40x12x40 can only manage something in the region of 95mins before screwing things up royally.

My old Pioneer 104 DVD-RW drive made an absolute mess of 99minute disks, so I used to keep them well away from it.

My Sony DRU-500a is somewhat erratic with 99min media, so I keep them away from it, too.

To be honest, I think the majority of problems people have writing 99min disks are (relatively-speaking) due more to the firmware than the hardware itself. You should also note that many PLAYERS are not designed to comprehend anything with more than 3 digits in the minute column, so anything over 99minutes can confuse the hell out of them.

Overall, the Infiniti media, while not being the absolute best quality on the market, have nonetheless proved themselves to be very reliable in my experience. I would recommend them.

BTW, NONE of the above-mentioned drives ever recognised the true size of the 99minute media, but, as others have said, this is due to the manufacturer not stating this when stamping the specs on the disk ID.


Arky ;o)

[alexnoe]

There is only one LiteOn 52x24x52, which is the LTR-52246S. The Plextor 4012TA needs a firmware update to be able to record more than 95 minutes. The Plextor Premium can record about 136 minutes...

[Wolfman]

Explorer reports free disc space to be 16gb ..hahaha..
I use winxp/pro and it wont report the "free" space on a blank cdr of any type.
nero info tool shows this
http://99mindisc.jpg 96m43s37f 79.59.74
Also my drive has 16mb buffer:D
I tend to only burn 99min cdr to about 97 mins 870mb or less.
smartburn reports nominal capacity 702mb speed limit 70x!!
(infiniti 99min cdr) I too find inifiniti very reliable.
Is there any other brand of 99min cdr?

[alexnoe]

96 43 37 is the start LBA of the leadin and has nothing to do with the capacity...

[Arky]

Originally posted by alexnoe
...The Plextor Premium can record about 136 minutes...

REALLY?! On 99min media?

Do you have a link please?


Arky ;o)

[alexnoe]

You just need to buy a Plextor Premium, install Plextools Professional, and set Gigarec to 1.4x. Note that, with Gigarec enabled, the maximum write speed is 8x, and burn-proof is not available.

[Wolfman]

And those discs cant be read on any other drive :(

[jeremymacmull]

I read a review on gigarec and on securec on cdr labs

basically all drives can read securec disk if they have the securec app installed. few drives can read gigarec at 1.2 or 1.1 X

and VERY FEW drives apart from the plextors can read 1.4X gigarec disks

but that does not mean that this is bad, cos id love to be able to burn 1gb on a 700 mb disk for backups and could only be read by me! (well pretty much)

JEREMY