Why are the subs splitted into W & L?

[dazzle]

On the 3 latest film (PAL) I've done, I've come across the same subtitle problem:

In DIF4U I see the the subtitles listed as:
0x21 - EN (W)
0x22 - EN (L)
and so on...

Is this because of how the original dvd is made, or is it something I can do to make them be (WL)?

I know how to fix this in the end, but that forces me to do additional steps...which I rather be without. :D

[ShaneZ]

Originally posted by dazzle
On the 3 latest film (PAL) I've done, I've come across the same subtitle problem:

In DIF4U I see the the subtitles listed as:
0x21 - EN (W)
0x22 - EN (L)
and so on...

Is this because of how the original dvd is made, or is it something I can do to make them be (WL)?

I know how to fix this in the end, but that forces me to do additional steps...which I rather be without. :D

One is for the widescreen version, one is for letter boxed which is set when the dvd is made... i would not suggest changing the settings, but i guess you could if you wouldn't mind more additional steps if it messes up ;)

[Matthew]

It's the original DVD. I've only come across a couple of (PAL) DVDs with this. I'll explain by example.

Say you have a 1.85:1 16:9 enhanced DVD.

If only one set of subs are included then typically in 16:9 mode they will be displayed over the picture at the bottom (because screen is filled). In 4:3 letterbox mode they will displayed in the same place on the TV, which means they are (partially) in the borders.

Sometimes a separate letterbox stream will be included and the subs will typically be positioned higher so that they are positioned over the movie itself, as the widescreen subs are. Perhaps part of the reason is so that if 4:3 people use the zoom button on their DVD player, the subs are not cut off.

Personally, I actually prefer the widescreen subtitles in 4:3 letterbox mode as it's better IMO to have the subs displayed in the black bars.

I'm not sure what implications (if any) there would be by just including the widescreen subs and marking them W+L. That would be fine for movie-only backups though - it does look right.

[dazzle]

Thanx for your replys guys!

Yes, I know L is letterbox and W is for widescreen. But it sometimes destroys the structure of the dvd, when they're encoded as 2 streams (with DIF4U).

I recently did a movie that starts with a Title set menu that looked like this:

English Deutch Espanol Dutch

Where each button linked you to the root menu, where the subs were pre selected. The problem was, that since every sub was double after The Big 3, you ended up with the wrong preselected subs.

I fixed this before by ripping out every L sub in Ifo Edit...and that was the extra work I wanted to skip :D

But I still find it strange that in the original Ifo file it says 4 subs, but when you're done with the encoding (and Ifo Update) your Ifo file says 8 subs...

[Trahald]

subs on separate streams in not unusual. they are grouped in the ifo. what you need to do when authoring is set the language names and alternate the W - L tabs properly..

[W] l p English
w [L] p English
[W] l p French
w [L] p French


scenarist will assign 4 streams but will group them in the ifo

(1) English 0x20, 0x21
(2) French 0x22, 0x23


then they should ifo update fine. ive never had to delete hte letterbox sub stream.

[dazzle]

Thanx for your reply Trahald!
No Scenarist don't group them for me. So after IfoUpdate I always get twice the amount of subs.

I only do the "2 steps" in Scenarist; Import from script, and then the Layout-stuff :D

Is there anything besides that I should do?

[dazzle]

subs on separate streams in not unusual. they are grouped in the ifo. what you need to do when authoring is set the language names and alternate the W - L tabs properly..

I got one of "these" movies again. Could someone explain how to group them in Scenarist (I presume), so that they appear as Eng W+L in the ifo?

Cause it's a little annoying to have them as two separate streams after authoring...:(

[D3s7]

The easist solution in this case would to NOT copy the Subtables in the ifoupdate step. This would keep the original structure

However, if you want to adjust in Scenarist here is what you need to do

Click on the "Scenerio" tab

For each "Title" that needs to be fixed click on the correct title. In the property/information window there should be an option called "Adjust Subs" or something of the like. This allows you to adjust the Total number of streams. If your original had 3 for example, just make sure there's a checkbox by 0,1,2

After that's done you need to click EACH PGC in turn and there will be a subchannel assignment listed in the property/information window. This is where you can assign which [ID] is used for which [STREAM]. For example Stream 0 (they start at 0 here not 1) it'll show 4:3/Wide/Letterbox/Pan&Scan. A 16:9 asset requires both Wide and Letterbox so select which sub [ID] is correct for Wide (ie sub1 in your track which coorisponds to 0x20) and which is correct for letterbox

Repeat procedure for each PGC in that title and each title in the VTS in question

[dazzle]

The easist solution in this case would to NOT copy the Subtables in the ifoupdate step. This would keep the original structure
Thanks!!
That sounds like my solution :D

But it's also very useful to know the "Scenarist trick" as well :)