compatibile? 400Mhz DDR, 333fsb cpu?

[avih]

hi.
i've beeing using a 800Mhz duron (+256m sdram, onboard audio) for the last 3 or so years. i have endless issues with my board. (bsod, not booting, etc. the board is now completely with default settings).

i'm about to upgrade my core components of mobo, cpu, mem.
so far, here's what i'm interesting at:
mobo: asus A7N8X (http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socketa/a7n8x/specification.htm)-X (NOT delux) (nforce2). 6ch onboard audio, lan.
cpu: AthlonXP 2400+ or 2500+
mem: 512M DDR, 400Mhz or 333Mhz.

i have 2 questions that i don't quite know the answer to, and would appreciate an advice from someone with more hardware experience than myself.

1. since the AthlonXP 2500+ is 333fsb, does it even matter if the ram is 400Mhz or 333Mhz?

2. what would give better preformance with this asus board?
- AthlonXP 2500+ (barton, 512K L2, 333fsb, 1.83Ghz) my 1st choice
- AthlonXP 2400+ (what are the options here??)
- AthlonXP 2600+ (does it worth considering? seems to have less L2)

i already have an nvidia FX5600 ultra based video card, and a bt878 tv/fm card. i plan to use this computer for 'light' 3d gaming, capture and some video processing, and development (compiling, etc). i'm willing to slightly OC the board, but i'm not going to buy extra cooling etc.

btw, the price difference between the different cpus, and mems is quite low. so i'm interested in the compatibility issue at 1st, and then performance.

i'd appreciate some help.
thx in advance,
avih

[Mnl]

Hi Avih

1. Buy the pc3200 modules - the motherboard supports 400 mhz fsb, so when the xp's running at 400 mhz fsb (3200+) becomes cheaper you can upgrade. There should not be any compatibility problems with running pc3200 modules at 333 mhz fsb.

2. I woud buy the barton 2500+ - the data for the 2400+ are: 256K L2, 266fsb, 2Ghz

The 2600+ is identical to the 2400+ - exept from the clockspeed which is 2.13 Ghz

Edit:

Forgot to mention that running pc3200 modules at 333 mhz fsb most likely will be an advantage as it will allow you to use faster memory timings.

Regards, Mnl

[avih]

thank you very much. sounds like a knowledgable asnwer.
so i'm going to stay with my 1st choice: A7N8X-X, XP2500+, 512M 400Mhz DDR.

cheers,
avih

[avih]

for everyone interested, regarding the cpu core (barton). i kept searching the web for data, and found 2 interesting arcticles:

XP2500+ (http://www.pureoc.com/amdxp2500_1.asp) and it's OC'ability.
XP3000+ (http://www.pureoc.com/AMDXP3000_1.asp) and barton in general.

this reassures me that the XP2500+ is the one i want. thx again Mnl.

fyi.
avih

[specise_8472]

Watch out for the 2500+ cpu.
Only certain batches are very overclockable.

I myself am running a 2500+ overclocked to 3200+ (2.2gig).

Motherboard is Gigabyte GA-7n400 Pro2
Memory is a big problem with GB boards. They need very good memory to run. Mine is 2 X 512 AData DDR400 running Duel channel.
ALL overclocking is done by the Bios alone. No hardware mods at all.
And am using stock air cooling. If I went to higher cooling (H2O etc) I could get it up to 2.5gig (about max).

So if wanting to overclock - read around first, then make a decision.

[specise_8472]

Should explain more about 2500+

AMD now lock the multiplier on these chips.
You can get them to 3200+ by using the FSB only. But no higher by using the multiplier.
You will need DDR 400 memory at 200FSB.

[avih]

thx. as i noted before, i'm not a hardcore OCer. i'm gonna get the kingmax tinyBGA 512 PC3200. (one single stick). i already read plent of reviews (board/cpu/mem). for the price i paid it's a good deal for me (about $400 including maxtor 120G, ata133, 8M cache). OC using fsb only is fair enough for me, if i'll OC, it'll probably be just for fun, and then back to stock speeds. i should get the parts prob tomorow, and assemble during the weekend.

thx anyway
avih

[specise_8472]

When overclocking, set up as standard cpu speed then install windows.
Then use a program called Prime95 under windows to check out stability.
This program does some very serious computations using the cpu. It compares results to a lookup table. If the results are close to the correct answer, it issues a warning, if way off, Fails. Very good program to check out stability of systems. And also to check memory.
If passes at stock settings, then slowly take the FSB up a few points at a time. Checking the system with Prime95 at each step. It will take a while, but you will know that you have a stable system.
The only thing to make sure the whole way is Temperature. Have a good fan. I myself have a probe under the CPU that constantly monitors the TRUE temp of the CPU. Bioses usually report wrong.
Good luck.

[avih]

ok. computer assembled. real fast.
damn, so much faster than my duron 800, 256M sdram ;)

might still have an issue with cpu temperatures... it's going up and down too much. according to the asus utility that came with the board, cpu temp varies between ~35 and ~50 (!) when doing some 'heavy' tasks... i'll check some forums. other than this, real treat...

still running at stock settings. i'll try 'playing' with stuff after i see it's stable for a while..

cheers for your help guys.

[gircobain]

Temperature gradients of that magnitude under heavy cpu load are not unusual
Cpu's can handle high temps fairly well, believe me, I live in a warm place and my Athlon 2400 runs usually at 50C, and I've seen it run at 70C under full usage for a few hours and even reach 75C (!) with no problems
Of course its cooling could be better but that's another story...

[avih]

ok, i'm slightly reliefed now ;) thx.
the thing i'm affraid of though is that i didn't put the thermal grease well, because it's the 1st time i've done it myself, or seen it. oh, and i should have kept the 4 rubber circles on the cpu, right?

[twist3d]

oh, and i should have kept the 4 rubber circles on the cpu, right?
hehe. i hope this is a joke (at least i got good laughs :D).
yeah the rubber circles are essential for working heat sink
installation.

[specise_8472]

The rubbers are there to keep pressure off of the CPU Die itself.
When fastening down the fan, they keep the pressure off.
You can get away with it on some fans, but others are a lot tighter, and WILL crack/crush your cpu:scared:

[Mnl]

First of all - congratulations with your new system. I think it is a very good choise regarding price/performance. And it really must be a revolution performance-wise going from a duron to a barton :D

Then the temperatures. Really you have nothing to worry about if it lies around 30 degrees at idle and around 50 at full load. These temps are well within the normal range for a 2500+ barton running with the stock cooler. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong when you applied the thermal paste.

If you want to be on the safe side you could of course buy a better (and way more expensive) cooler. But I think that before you do that it would be better to have a look at the number of case fans you have installed. A couple of fans in your case (one in the front to draw in fresh air and another in the back to expell hot air) really helps the CPU cooler keep the CPU temp down. Remember that for every degree you lower the temp inside your case, you lower the temp of your CPU by the same amount (roughly), because you are giving the CPU cooler colder air to work with (better Delta T). And in addition you prolong the life of your other components - especially the hard drives by keeping them colder also.

[avih]

yes, the rubber circles thingy was a joke ;) (sort of), i just applied some common sense and thermal paste.. when putting it all together.

thx guys for your help and encouragements.. i almost forgot how it feels to be helped by others.. oh well, i love this forum ;)

cheers,
avih

[Solo]

Re: stability checking

Prime95 is great but if you also want to do a quick test which puts your system + memory under a lot of strain then also try SuperPI. You can select 1 million calculation which with a fast PC like mine takes about 33 seconds (overclocked). Chances are if it fails this test it will fail Prime95 as well. It can also be used as a benchmark so it's fun at same time to see best score you can get. :D

[Pum]

Originally posted by avih
ok. computer assembled. real fast.
damn, so much faster than my duron 800, 256M sdram ;)

might still have an issue with cpu temperatures... it's going up and down too much. according to the asus utility that came with the board, cpu temp varies between ~35 and ~50 (!) when doing some 'heavy' tasks... i'll check some forums. other than this, real treat...

still running at stock settings. i'll try 'playing' with stuff after i see it's stable for a while..

cheers for your help guys.

I just upgraded my spare system pretty much the same as you - AMD XP2500+ Barton on an Asus A7N8X-X non-delux mobo, so I definately think you made the right choice. The mobo doesn't support dual channel :( (the delux does).

After getting it up and running stock, I easily OCed it to XP3200+ spec (only changed the FSB to 200MHz, nothing else). Runs 24x7 no problem. Idle temp 30C. Load temp 48C max (Sandra burn-in wizard for 8 hours). I was playing Unreal Tournament on it last night for an hour or so, and the CPU temp leveled off at 40C with CPU use at 100%.

I got an OEM CPU with no heatsink/fan, and a Thermaltake Volcano 11+ Xaser. It's not expensive, and cools real good. I use the included temperature sensor to automatically throttle the fan, and used Artic Silver 5 paste between the CPU and HSF. It's a little noisy (the HSF, not the paste :rolleyes: ), but not too bad. My other, more OCed system, uses a Zalman AlCu quiet HSF - single speed and very quiet, but more expensive.

Modest OCs are pretty easy these days on Intel or AMD. I built a system recently for a friend using the standard HSF - P4C 2.6GHz/800FSB OCed to 3.07GHz/236FSB. Give the OC a go, and if it works, run some burn-in to check temps and stability. If it works then great. If not then back off the FSB till it is stable and temps are OK. I hear that the Barton is OK with temps upto 60C (P4C Northwood is 50C). You can't really damage your components this way - they'll just refuse to boot if you push it too far, then you just power off/on and change the setting in the BIOS back a bit - I did this trying some clever stuff last weekend). The way to damage your components is to increase voltages, which I have not done on either of my systems.

Good luck, Pum.