CCE vs. FFVFW

[Amnon82]

I wanted to know which encoder encodes a DVD in original resolution better with low bitrate.

So I encoded a highaction part out of the DVD DIE HARD 2.

For encoding I used CCE 2.67.00.23 and FFVFW 2004.01.13.

FFVFW is freeware and CCE payware. I used QCCE 1.02 by jonny to get the size I got form the encoded m2v of FFVFW. The goal was 9 MB for 415 in 720x576 16:9 aspect ratio.

FFVFW was set up with: 15/1/2/2-2-2-2/3-3-3-6-2/6426.
CCE was set up with: 500/4500/Q10

The test result images You can see on my homepage: CCE vs. FFVFW (http://www.rj-elektronik.de/avideo/cvscmain.php)

You can also download the settings (http://www.rj-elektronik.de/avideo/files/cococ104dvd.exe) I used for this test.

For the speed is CCE the winner. He encoded with 1.45.
FFVFW only encoded with 8.9 FPS.

[RB]

So you used CCE in OPV mode and FFVFW in what mode? Redo this test with CCE set to multipass VBR and then have a look again :p

[Asmodeus]

Did you noticed that ffvfw produces incopliant VBV and has no respect for max bitrate limitation? This is the main issue of this tool. And also quality of course is better for ffvfw, but only in low bitrates. In high bitrates CCE is beter.

[Amnon82]

@Asmodeus, You're right!

@RB: 15/1/2/2-2-2-2/3-3-3-6-2/6426 was the setup. I explain it to You.
Image 1 (http://www.rj-elektronik.de/avideo/images/cococ/vdm5.jpg)
15 stands for maximum I Frame Interval. 1 for minimum I Frame Interval.
2 for max. consecutive b frames.

Image 2 (http://www.rj-elektronik.de/avideo/images/cococ/vdm7.jpg)
2-2-2-2 stands for the Min quantizer for I, P and B frames and Macroblocks. 3-3-3-6-2 for the Max quantizer. 6426 was the Bitrate of the Constant Bitrate Mode which is VBR in FFVFW.

FFVFW produces good Quality in Low Bitrates and I only wanted to test this option also in CCE.

[Asmodeus]

Yes, I know that ffvfw results are astonish, but with quality mode you ge VBV bufer at 14 (for VCD should be 40, for SVCD 112, and i dont remeber DVD but is higher), and there is no way to limit max bitrate walue (i get at max 11000) , and this could be unnaceptable for standalones (mostly old one).

[CavalloPazzo]

Has anyone tried mencoder?
Here you can find win32 binaries: http://mplayer.sunset-utopia.homeip.net/
It's a command line encoder which use libavcodec, the same ffvfw uses. It support max bitrate and video buffer. It's more than 3 times faster than ffvfw on my machine... but:
haven't tested 2 pass on long clips: on short doesn't give very good results.
1 pass constant quantizer mode doesn't use bfactor and boffset, so all frame (i/p/b) will have same quantizer.

[Amnon82]

I'll look into mencoder...

You linked to MPlayer. I think mencoder is inside this package. Is there a simple tut to handle mencoder, or can You write one?

[Asmodeus]

I've tested mencoder, and results are almost same as with ffvfw, but mencoder is 3 times faster. I must say that he ist even too fast. If we could slow him down a litle, to gain quality this way, it would be better than ffvfw. It supports bitrate restrict, and VBV setings, so files producet this way are fully compliant. Here (http://www.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/win32-beta/man_page.html) is mencoder/mplayer manual page. It is not very difficult to use.

[CavalloPazzo]

With longer clips 2 pass seems to work better... anyway In both FFvfw and mencoder I found usefull to disable trellis (produces 8x8 dct blocks for me) and enable spatial complexity masking (0.25).
Anyway, the encoder is in the package... in that link there is the latest build I've found on the web.
It's very strange that speed is so different respect ffvfw...I think with right source and compilation option ffvfw could be fast the same

[Amnon82]

@Asmodeus: THX for the manual. I found only settings for MPEG 4:

Encoding DVD title #2, only selected chapters
mencoder dvd://2 -chapter 10-15 -o title2.avi -oac copy -ovc divx4
Encoding DVD title #2, resizing to 640x480
mencoder dvd://2 -vf scale=640:480 -o title2.avi -oac copy -ovc divx4
Encoding DVD title #2, resizing to 512xHHH (keep aspect ratio)
mencoder dvd://2 -vf scale -zoom -xy 512 -o ti- tle2.avi -oac copy -ovc divx4
The same, but with libavcodec family, MPEG4 (Di- vx5) com- pression
mencoder dvd://2 -o title2.avi -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vhq:vbitrate=1800 -oac copy
The same, but with libavcodec family, MJPEG com- pression
mencoder dvd://2 -o titel2.avi -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mjpeg:vhq:vbitrate=1800 -oac copy

Some codec settings...

vcodec=<value>
use the specified codec (there is no default, you must specify it):
mjpeg
Motion JPEG
ljpeg
Lossless JPEG
h263
H263
h263p
H263 Plus
mpeg4
DivX 4/5
msmpeg4
DivX 3
msmpeg4v2
MS MPEG4v2
wmv1
Windows Media Video, version 1 (aka WMV7)
wmv2
Windows Media Video, version 2 (aka WMV8)
rv10
an old RealVideo codec
mpeg1video
MPEG1 video
mpeg2video
MPEG2 video
huffyuv
HuffYUV
asv1
ASUS Video v1
asv2
ASUS Video v2
ffv1
FFmpeg's lossless video codec

And the option to add custom matrices:

inter_matrix=<comma separated matrix>
Use custom inter matrix. It needs a comma separated string of 64 integers.
intra_matrix=<comma separated matrix>
Use custom intra matrix. It needs a comma separated string of 64 integers.

FFVFW is easier to setup. MEncoder is a command line encoder. Can anyone post Your line his use for encoing MPEG2? I'll try to find one by my self...

[Asmodeus]

When you click on CODEC SPECIFIC ENCODING OPTIONS (MENCODER ONLY), and pass divx and lame setings to "lavc (-lavcopts)", all bellow codec list are MPEG1/2 param's.

And the simply comand line could look like this:

mencoder -of mpeg -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg1video:mbd=1:vqscale=3:
vrc_minrate=64:vrc_maxrate=5000:vrc_buf_size=1835:keyint=250:vlelim=-4:vcelim=7:
aspect=4/3:vmax_b_frames=1: in.avi -o out.mpg

Of cource all in one line (do not insert spaces after : when line is splited).

[CavalloPazzo]

When you use vqscale, rate control doesn't work. B and I frame factor and offset doesn't work... I use 2 pass... in first pass the same parameters of second should be used,but for speed I use different with higher bitrate (dunno if it's good, but sems to work). When using scplx_mask, black border should be multiple of 8, otherwise it may result in artifacts.

mencoder -nosound -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:vmax_b_frames=2:keyint=15:aspect=16/9:vpass=1:
vbitrate=2500:vb_qfactor=1.5:vb_qoffset=1:vrc_maxrate=9000:
vrc_buf_size=1835 g:\lot\video_ts\vts_01_2.vob input.vob -of mpeg -o test.mpg

mencoder -nosound -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:mv0:mbd=1:vmax_b_frames=2:mbcmp=256:subcmp=256:
cmp=256:precmp=0:preme=2:predia=6:dia=2:keyint=15:aspect=16/9:
vpass=2:vbitrate=2500:vb_qfactor=1.5:vb_qoffset=1:lumi_mask=0.07:
dark_mask=0.1:scplx_mask=0.25:naq:last_pred=5:vqcomp=0.90:
vrc_maxrate=9000:vrc_buf_size=1835 g:\lot\video_ts\vts_01_2.vob -of mpeg -o test.mpg

[Amnon82]

THX guys! Is there a way to load a AVSScript?

@CavalloPazzo: How long do You need for a 2pass encode? I see U used Lord of the Rings.

[CavalloPazzo]

There's no way to load avs script, bacause it doesn't use windows routine to load avi's, but internals. Anyway there's no need to use them, because you can use a lot of internal preprocessing :resize, crop, noise reduction, deinterlacing and adding noise (for noise I suggest you to try ibias and pbias in the lavcoption for noise in iframes and pframes: defaults are 96 for i, 0 for p, so incresing them you can add noise, decreasing you can smooth; I used 155 for I and didn't use pbias and it looks better than without to my eyes)
I didn't do a full encode (only 10 minutes), I used lot only to test. During 1 pass with this settings I got 45-50 fps, during second 16-18. In second pass I enabled a lot of option to test, but some of them (chroma motion,last_pred and pre motion) can be removed because with them encoding is a lot slower (without I got ~30 fps) and video in only 1-2% smaller at constant quality.
Ops...I forgot to say my CPU... sorry. XP1800

[Asmodeus]

Yes it is.
You have to instal ffvfw (for makeAVIs frame servering), copy codecs.conf (forom this package (http://www.jltoca.uaivip.com.br/files/mencoder_avs.zip)) to subfolder called mplayer, merge makeavis.reg, and create fake avi with makeAVIs. This fake file is readable now my mencoder :devil:

Full description can be found in Vmesquita's theread on KVCD:HOW-TO: Use avisynth with mencoder (finally) (http://kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9078)

[Wilbert]

Sounds great! Can't wait to try it out ...

[Amnon82]

I found my Delphi 7 and think to start a gui for mencoder.

In the net I only found Gulmencoder (http://www.vdsworld.com/~vuks/bin2/gulmencoder.cab) for Xvid.

If it works in Delphi maybe I need help from U guys to find the optimal settings. If not this was a one-day-fly...

[Razorblade2000]

Gulmencoder isn't for XviD :D
It uses libavcodecs own mpeg4 encoding engine :D
(or other encoders if used "mpeg2video" as codec e.g.)

[Amnon82]

But it produces AVI files... or I'm wrong?

I start to program DRPENC (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71131), my own GUI for mencoder. So I think we should swich now to the new thread...:D

[Razorblade2000]

ok... lets switch :D

p.s.
Yes, it produces avi files... but not xivd :D
Maybe the "-of mpeg" switch would work...

[RB]

OK, this has moved too far away from CCE, so moved to "Other MPEG1/2 encoder" forum.

[Amnon82]

Yes I know, ergo moved I to a new thread...

[unplugged]

Latest version of Mencoder seems a little prone to crash, especially with 2-pass system, can anyone point me a little more stable compile?
(I have tried 2004/02 from Amnon82 site)

Why this other name...
Aren't ffmpeg and mencoder effectively the same thing?

[Razorblade2000]

Aren't ffmpeg and mencoder effectively the same thing?
Nope... most of them is the same. But afaik Ratecontrol mechansims and muxing techniques are different (and other things...)

[unixfs]

Originally posted by Razorblade2000
Nope... most of them is the same. But afaik Ratecontrol mechansims and muxing techniques are different (and other things...)

only the muxers are different; the RC code is libavcodec's (ffmpeg's engine).

[Amnon82]

Started to build new mencoder versions. Download the newest now on my page.