black border junction problem on original source dvd

[jel]

well here's the spiel:

original source dvd:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50)(16:9(letterboxed)

which when viewed on my standalone (high end marantz dvd player) and average (standard, non wide screen) TV, there is a noticeable line of *'pure black' which seperates the black border that is part of the video, and the black border which the standalone adds to the video to achieve the correct display.

*note : when i say 'pure black' it appears as a more vivid, saturated black than the borders.
*note 2: this only occurs on the bottom junction between the two borders and not on the top junction
*note 3: this issue has occured with only 2 out of the possible hundreds of dvds i have watched on this setup.

example of viewable area on tv screen:

|--------------------------------------------------|
| BLACK BORDER ADDED BY TV |
|--------------------------------------------------|
| BLACK BORDER ORIGINAL |
|--------------------------------------------------|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| MOVIE IMAGE |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|--------------------------------------------------|
| BLACK BORDER ORIGINAL |
|--------------------------------------------------|
| BLACK BORDER ADDED BY TV |
|--------------------------------------------------|

now my question is this

1. is this a symptom of a poorly encoded original dvd? (i would assume that because of overscan this would not be visible on a wide screen tv) or is it an issue with how my set top player handles this movie?

2. would it be possible add some lines of script to (possible suggestion only) crop borders then add new borders of the required dimensions so hopefully when i re-encode with cce it will remove whatever is causing this 'line' in the original source.

thanks for any assistance on this
cheers
j

ps i did run extensive searches on 'borders' etc but most/all threads were relating to coverting to svcd etc, so sorry if this has been discussed before

[SiXXGuNNZ]

crop all borders and re-encode as 16:9 anamorphic(no borders) just go to imdb.com and find the real aspect 1.85:1 etc and go from there

[jel]

thanks for that chief, i will give it a go tonight.
cheers
j

[jel]

hmmmm...okay ,did some 'light reading' of the forums and avisynth guides etc. but would like to clarify if at all possible.

so if aspect ratio of original is 1.85:1, to crop the borders from 16:9 (720 x 576) to achieve 1.85:1 (720 x 390) i would have to add

Crop(0, 0, 720, 390)

to my avisynth script to remove those borders. is this correct? or have i missed something fundamental ....
:confused:
and by not adding any borders and re-encoding at 16:9 anamorphic, the player will set the correct borders on playback, right?

[SiXXGuNNZ]

I use gknot's res window and fitcd 1.12 to figure out my right resolution, bit tricky, but easy once ya do it once. I myself would rather just like to know how to do this by math, but I am not that smart. here is a link for fitcd http://shh.dvdboard.de/

also, he makes a good app called fit2disc(just for dvd's) but it cost money

[auenf]

back to your first post, the movie is probably in 2.40:1, but 16:9 dvd is 1.80:1 (i know im not exact on the ratios), so rather than crop the sides, borders were added to the top and bottom to maintain the theatrical aspect.

Enf...

[RB]

jel, you are confusing movie aspect ratio and anamorphic. Simply put, as long as you do only Crop/AddBorders and no Resize, whether the video is anamorphic or not, you do not change the aspect ratio, you just do letterboxing. In your specific case, a simple LetterBox() in the AVISynth script is all you need to really "blackout" the original black borders.

[jel]

thanks for the clarification. appreciate it.
@RB
thanks for the script recommendations .... i knew there would be a simple solution :D
cheers
j

[Stabmaster-Arson]

Don't change the borders! 2.35:1 movies @ 16:9 always have some border in the video! Without borders you will be stretching the movie to 1:77:1 and will be ruined.

Remmeber 16:9 is not a movie aspect, it's a resizing flag for the whole file. Movies can be 1.77:1, 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 , each with a different amount of letterboxing.

Do not confuse this with 4:3 letterboxing.

[jel]

Remmeber 16:9 is not a movie aspect, it's a resizing flag for the whole file. Movies can be 1.77:1, 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 , each with a different amount of letterboxing.
thanks Stabmaster-Arson for the further details. once you understand this concept it all becomes a lot clearer. :D

for the record, adding 'LetterBox(5,5)' to the avisynth script worked a treat and the 'line' is no longer present.

thanks all for your help!

i am still questioning though if the problem is through poor encoding on the original dvd or a problem with my player/tv set-up ... or a combination of the two? so far i have only noticed this effect on two of my dvds.

cheers
j