WMP9 issues w/latest XviD

[wh00t]

Hi,

I have a question regarding latest XviD & WMP9. After cutting an XviD-compressed avi w/VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.1-B2424 into two (cutting at a keyframe), I've tried playing it with wmp9. At the end of part1 the pic suddenly went upside down and after changing to part2 (which was in the playlist already) the colors became kind of green/pink-ish. So I've tried playing them alone, one by one without them being together in the playlist at the same time,
pic at the end of p1 still went upside down but colors on p2 were fine.
So, I've tried several other players, like wmp-classic 6.4.7.6 and bsplayer. To my surprise everything plays fine, no color-issues on p2 and no pic-flipping on p1.

So my question is, what's the cause of this (crappy wmp9 or is it the codec somehow or could it be the specific combo of wmp9 together with xvid)?

Thx

[crusty]

Wmp9= very bad player(tm)

Try again with:
ffdshow
Zoomplayer
Windows Media Player 6.4

And report the results.

Wmp9 uses a new type of filtering chain that not every codec is happy with. Don't know much more about it, was put off using wmp since version 7.

You should also note that Virtualdub(mod) versions newer than 1.5.4 are buggy.

[wh00t]

thx for your reply crusty,

as is said before i've already tried bsplayer and wmp classic 6.4.7.6 and it works well, meaning no playing errors there..

so i guess it is some kind of incompatibility between xvid <=> wmp9, too bad as i really do not like switching between players but heh, i guess i have to do it then (i know wmp7 was bad but i had a good feeling with the new one v9, no probs until now)

edit:

/me stupid.. works well now with SysKin's fix, few posts below. although the colors are kinda look washed out when changing to p2

[crusty]

although the colors are kinda look washed out when changing to p2

Strange...did you encode that clip with RC1 or with an earlier version?

[WRFan]

stop blaming MS for everything that goes wrong! It's obviously the fault of the xvid developers, not of MS. Don't you think that a codec that plays videos upside down is unusable? I installed the latest build of koepi's codec and went to a page, downloaded a video encoded in xvid format, tried to play it in WMP9 and guess what, after it finished playing, it restarted in upside down "mode"! tried searching this forum for a fix, nothing but techno babble here. Isn't there any solution for laymen? I don't know anything about compiling or programming. I just want to install a codec and watch my videos.

I went back to Nik's xvid codec, tried playing the same video again, and it works fine, no upside down probs any more. So what does this mean? Do I have to use this old version forever just because the developers can't fix the upside down problem? I am telling you, I am not going to switch to another player just because the developers can't fix bugs.

[Asmodian]

Well with that attitude I guess you shouldn't use the newer versions of Xvid. There are lots of solutions to the upside down problem, all of which (AFAIK) don't require any compiling or programming knowledge. (checking the box marked 'flip video' isn't what I would call techno babble)

Xvid is the configurable and developed for free option for people who want to compress video. It sounds like you aren't interested in generating content but just watching it. Why use Xvid at all, just install ffdshow and you should be fine.

I understand not wanting to switch players but that doesn't mean use wmp9 and curse anything that doesn't work in it! It means use a better player to watch everything (mpc, zoomplayer).

[kilg0r3]

Yep, the wish to use cutting edge technologie is diametrally opposed to the wish for gadgets that 'simply work'.

There is a reason for the fact that the Data Trader, which is something like GetRight or Gozilla for Ibm mainframes, is relatively new on the market. It is the same reason why e.g Debian Linux always uses older kernel versions than the other distributions: Stability is incompatible with fast inovation cycles.

Regards, kilg0r3

[Koepi]

Offtopic:

kilgore, your signature link doesn't work anymore. It's thus not just an outdated archive, it's gone! :scared:

;)

Ontopic:
WRFan,

we don't like people with your attitude here. Did you have anything constructive to contribute? No. Did you read the thread (2 posts above your post wh00t describes the solution...).
Sorry, but go ahead, steal your movies and software (we don't support that here, be careful) but don't bash honest people for nothing but your own incompetence.


Regards
Koepi

[WRFan]

You just can't stop blaming others instead of admitting your own fault, can you? I didn't steal any movies, the movie I was talking about was a FREE sample which could be dowloaded for free.

So, see, there are also some other honest people apart from you. can't stand this arrogant attitude.

I still don't see any solution. Where is this "flip video" option you are talking about? I can't access the decoding options from within WMP, cause doesn't allow to access the options of the decoders. And anyway, you don't expect me to change options every time I watch a video? As I told above, the upside down problem occurs only AFTER the player finished playing the video for the first time and restarted it. So do you expect me to change the options every time? First uncheck the flip video option, when video is normal, then check it again? Watching videos is for fun, I don't feel like digging through hundreds of decoder settings. Ok, if it were just once, I'd do it, but changing the settings every time? And anyway, this discussion is useless, cause it's not possible from within WMP9.

The developers have to fix their products in order to make it work with such a wide spread product as WMP. Just being arrogant and saying that WMP sux won't help. Millions of people are completely satisfied with WMP and are using it.

Hey, we didn't ask for xvid. Most non-technical people like me were completely satisfied with MS mpeg4 codec, it had good quality. Then divx and xvid appeared on the market, and due to the extended features the old MS codec doesn't decode the new videos properly. So if you create a new codec, you have to ensure that it works in wide spread products. It's your responsibility as a developer. You can't simply ignore millions of people, just because you think zoom player or some other player is better.

Incredible! Instead of apologizing for this bug and promising to fix it you get nasty. Do you expect me to kiss your feet for this crappy MS mpeg4 rip off you call a codec? Believe me, if the xvid encoded videos could be played back using MS mpeg4 decoder, I would do it, changing the fourcc and wouldn't give a phuck about your crap. But this is not possible. So do us all a favour and simply fix this problem.

And please, don't give me here any techno babble, explaining why this problem can't be fixed. I won't understand your explanations anyway. If Bill Gates's Windows OS would start upside down, we wouldn't use it, right? Why do you expect us to use a codec that displays everything upside down? Either you can fix it, and then everything is all right, or you fail, and then stop developing this codec, then people can go back to MS codec or to the standard version of divx.

we don't like people with your attitude here

who the hell is "we"? Are you talking of yourself in plural, as if you were a king? Or do you believe to represent the whole video watching community? Let me assure you, there are a couple of WMP users registered on this board, that's for sure. If "we" means "zoom player" users, then there is still a "them", the WMP users, who don't like your attitude.

[Koepi]

Sorry again, but it seems you don't want to listen and still have nothing constructive to contribute. We have some forum rules here (which you somehow must have mistakenly _not_ read) to ensure a high level of conversation [and/or development talk ("techno babble")].

The problem you're currently experiencing is already solved. You don't find that solution? That is again a violation of our little (n)etiquette called forum rules (re-read rule no. 1 please). :(

Maybe you want to read this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52597&highlight=accept+gift+properly) about how to accept a gift properly as well, it helps you understand _our_ attitude here.

I know you won't understand this point, but just to be fair and give you another chance, you can just think about the difference between commercial products (M$ in general, the WMP9 "monopoly enforcing DRM-extender",...), simply put the things you pay money for, and a thing coded out of fun in the spare time of some people.

Nobody from the XviD folks owes you anything. Not the slightest apology. Not a single line of code. You're on the totally wrong track.

[Teegedeck]

WRFan's post was the most poorly founded complaint and the most insulting in tone I've read for a long time. It goes far beyond anything that I'd think deserves another chance. There's a certain level of conduct and reasoning below which we can't have discussions here.

The only fitting reply to his last post in my mind would be: Go away! Another strike for rule 4 and OUT.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by WRFan
You just can't stop blaming others instead of admitting your own fault, can you? I didn't steal any movies, the movie I was talking about was a FREE sample which could be dowloaded for free.

So, see, there are also some other honest people apart from you. can't stand this arrogant attitude.

Please calm down a bit. You did not get so specific earlier and it is an easy mistake to assume the worst which is the most common. Even you have to admit that probably 9 times out of 10 it is often pirate or bootleg material people are often talking about.

Originally posted by WRFan
I still don't see any solution. Where is this "flip video" option you are talking about? I can't access the decoding options from within WMP, cause doesn't allow to access the options of the decoders. And anyway, you don't expect me to change options every time I watch a video? As I told above, the upside down problem occurs only AFTER the player finished playing the video for the first time and restarted it. So do you expect me to change the options every time? First uncheck the flip video option, when video is normal, then check it again? Watching videos is for fun, I don't feel like digging through hundreds of decoder settings. Ok, if it were just once, I'd do it, but changing the settings every time? And anyway, this discussion is useless, cause it's not possible from within WMP9.

The fact that you can't change the decoder settings is enough in my book not to use modern WMP versions. But if you download the latest ffdshow alpha at sf.net it should aleviate most of your problems. It has a configuration interface avalible via the start menu. And it also has the option to load a tray icon on load so you can access the decoder settings while playing even though WMP7+ does not want you to. Under the miscellaneous option on the ffdshow dialog you should find the controlls to flip the video and automatically detect and circumvent most video problems. It is really worth your time to download ffdshow. Try it before you mess with the flip video setting. It may not exibit the same anomalies. Also the 3vix filters are good filters if all you desire is to play and not encode.

Originally posted by WRFan
The developers have to fix their products in order to make it work with such a wide spread product as WMP. Just being arrogant and saying that WMP sux won't help. Millions of people are completely satisfied with WMP and are using it.

It works with WMP. It just seems not the latest version on your machine. Would you be interested to know that on many machines Microsoft's own MSMPEG4 codecs play upside down from the start and there is no workaround in their codecs. So don't be so sure that there is no reason to blame Microsoft.

Originally posted by WRFan
Hey, we didn't ask for xvid. Most non-technical people like me were completely satisfied with MS mpeg4 codec, it had good quality. Then divx and xvid appeared on the market, and due to the extended features the old MS codec doesn't decode the new videos properly.

It's not because of new and extended features. Even with all the new and extended features turned off MSMPEG4 would refuse to decode Xvid and Divx. Do you know why? Because MSMPEG4 is not MPEG4. Or at least MPEG4 compatable. If anything Divx and Xvid are a boon to you the casual user. Xvid "can" decode Divx. Divx can decode Xvid. ffdshow can decode just about anything. Standards compliant MPEG4 offers far more stablility, usability, and portability for everyone. Including you the casual user. Far more than the old defunct MSMPEG4 codecs. Shortly MPEG4 will be as ubiquitous as MPEG1 now is. And MSMPEG4 will be the codec you are complaineing about as many now are. Becuase it is incompatable with MPEG4 standalones and all MPEG4 systems.

Originally posted by WRFan
So if you create a new codec, you have to ensure that it works in wide spread products. It's your responsibility as a developer.

By following standards that is exactly what they are doing. Unlike Microsoft. The encoder is what sees the most development on Xvid IIRC. The Directshow decoder last I knew was solely developed by Nic in his spare time. When I first got ahold of Xvid myself the only way I could decode it was by using the Divx4 or Divx5 decoder. So you should be rather thankfull.

Originally posted by WRFan
You can't simply ignore millions of people, just because you think zoom player or some other player is better.

They are not ignoring you or millions of others. They are not writiong for any one player. They are writing for directshow etc in general. And if players like WMP9 do extra things or somehow circumvent directshow in some places don't blame the developers of 3rd party developers.

Originally posted by WRFan
Incredible! Instead of apologizing for this bug and promising to fix it you get nasty.

You get what you give. You came in very antagonistic and you got antagonism in return. You don't have to prostrate yourself. But politeness and tactfullness are always a plus.

Originally posted by WRFan
Do you expect me to kiss your feet for this crappy MS mpeg4 rip off you call a codec?

It's ignorant statements like that which bring you unfriendly responses. We cant know everything but sometimes being silent can give the impression that we know more than we do. MSMPEG4 is the "crappy" ripoff of the standard which Divx, Xvid, 3ivx, ffmpeg, Quicktime, Sorrenson MPEG4, and others all follow. In Microsoft's defense MSMPEG4 was written and released before the standards were set for MPEG4. But I think Microsoft would have made it proprietary even had the standard been finished. ;)

Originally posted by WRFan
Believe me, if the xvid encoded videos could be played back using MS mpeg4 decoder, I would do it, changing the fourcc and wouldn't give a phuck about your crap. But this is not possible. So do us all a favour and simply fix this problem.

They can do more to fix the problem if they have more info about the problem. IIRC you said you searched for a solution and found none. That plus the fact that no one else has chimed in to support you leads me to believe that your problem could be rather unique. If you want help or support please provide all rellivant information. Such as Video card type, desktop color depth, video card driver version, directshow version, player software, decoder software and version, Windows version. That should be something you are capable of doing. And if not simply ask and someone will likely have the answer for you. Remember it is almost impossible to write bug free software. And that the bug may be because of an interaction and not the fault of any one project. Also when dealing with opensource projects don't behave like they owe you anything. Because they don't. And they will either ignore you or stop their work alltogether if that is all they get. If anything you should hold Microsoft responsible because their decoder will not decode any MPEG4. You pay for Windows they owe you.

Originally posted by WRFan
And please, don't give me here any techno babble, explaining why this problem can't be fixed. I won't understand your explanations anyway. If Bill Gates's Windows OS would start upside down, we wouldn't use it, right? Why do you expect us to use a codec that displays everything upside down? Either you can fix it, and then everything is all right, or you fail, and then stop developing this codec, then people can go back to MS codec or to the standard version of divx.

You are not being forced to use Xvid. Install the latest Divx decoder and uninstall the Xvid decoder. Then Divx will decode Xvid for you. Or uninstall Xvid and install 3ivx from www.3ivx.com and it will decode Xvid for you. Or install ffdshow even with Xvid and it should decode Xvid for you.

Originally posted by WRFan
who the hell is "we"? Are you talking of yourself in plural, as if you were a king? Or do you believe to represent the whole video watching community? Let me assure you, there are a couple of WMP users registered on this board, that's for sure. If "we" means "zoom player" users, then there is still a "them", the WMP users, who don't like your attitude.

"we" is us. The forum regulars and staff. As a new guy it is usually not the best idea to go around insulting the sensibilities of those who frequent here or strive to keep this a friendly and informative place. Especially in a place like this it is important to understand that many people are from other cultures and languages. And with that in mind one should do all they can to show understanding and respect. As someone who lives in the US I can say with some certanty that respect is something most American's are today rather unfamilliar with. Which is a bad thing. Remember flattery will get you everywhere.

[snowcrash]

@neo neko

The video-flipping issue is not unique to this person. I've seen the problem and I've heard from at least a few other people who experienced it. The only reason you're not hearing more people report the problem is because so few people in this forum use WMP9. It's something that was introduced in XVID beta3 so you really can't blame it on WMP9, nothing has changed in WMP9. And let's remember that outside of this microcosm of video geeks here in this forum, probably 95% of people use WMP7+ as their primary media player. If you're an XVID supporter then I guess you'd want it to become mainstream and see as many people using it as possible. That means making sure your decoder plays nicely with the mainstream media player.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by snowcrash
@neo neko

The video-flipping issue is not unique to this person. I've seen the problem and I've heard from at least a few other people who experienced it. The only reason you're not hearing more people report the problem is because so few people in this forum use WMP9. It's something that was introduced in XVID beta3 so you really can't blame it on WMP9, nothing has changed in WMP9. And let's remember that outside of this microcosm of video geeks here in this forum, probably 95% of people use WMP7+ as their primary media player. If you're an XVID supporter then I guess you'd want it to become mainstream and see as many people using it as possible. That means making sure your decoder plays nicely with the mainstream media player.

It is then important for all those who experience this to provide some usefull information that could be used to fix the issue. Just whining that it is broke and hotly demanding it be fixed will get you nothing. My only hopes for Xvid is that it continues to evolve and improve. And that those who develop it have fun and continue to do so. Whether or not Xvid is to MPEG4 what Lame is to MP3 is meaningless. Sure it would be nice. But what is important to me is that the Devs enjoy their work and get some sort of satisfaction if not respect for it. Because they most definatly deserve it. Whether or not the world adopts it as their choice is up to the world. And not I think in my goals or the goals of those who develop Xvid. If someone wishes to use 3ivx or Divx5 that is their choice and they have their reasons for doing so. There are times I preffer ffmpeg to Xvid myself. But I find it hard to stay away from Xvid. It is such an amasing project.

[snowcrash]

Well, today I did a clean install of Windows XP, installed WMP9 and then XVID RC1 and now I'm not seeing any flipping in XVID videos. So I guess I have to apologize, apparently the problem is not caused by XVID itself, but must be due to some interaction with other software. I'll keep an eye on it and see if it comes back.

@whoot

In regard to what you're seeing with the colors looking different between two videos played together in the WMP9 playlist. THis is something I've had problems with as well. What's happening is the video is being rendered with the overlay for one (this one will have brighter, more vibrant colors) and without overlay in the other (less saturated color). It switches back and forth between overlay and non-overlay(whatever that's called) rendering sometimes when you add multiple vids to the playlist. I haven't found any way to avoid this.

[kilg0r3]

@ Neo Neko

Posts like yours keep making me come back over and over again. THX.

[wh00t]

@snowcrash:

You can avoid this matter of different colors between 2 parts simply by unchecking 'use overlays' under advance-options of WMP9. This way colors are less vibrant overall but at least they're all the same. Hope this helps.

[mikeX]

@ Neo Neko

Posts like yours keep making me come back over and over again. THX.
you said it kilg0r3...man if i could be so patient....!!i was ready to start flaming the guy, he really worked me up, but then i read neo neko's post... well, there is not much more to say really...:)

[jarthel]

I must say that I've been using wmp9/xvid combo for months now (possibly started with Xvid encoding Feb/Mar 2003). I never had problems with it.

I recently switched to zoom player only because of nicer keyboard controls.

Other than that, I would recommend wmp9 to anyone wanting to view videos.

[DavidW]

I think the flipping problem only occured when you had two videos in your play list or when you had one video set to repeat or "loop".

I'm no programmer but I think it had something to do with media player launching a second instance of the decoder to "pre process" the first how ever many frames of the next video. Then the first instance and the second instance of the decoder conflicted with each other trying to access common resources of some sort (global variables?). Like I said, I'm no programmer, it's just an educated guess based on what I've seen in post here.

Since RC2 I have had no flipping problems but I still get the slow down that occured around the same time as the flip near the end of the movie. It will slow down the video and get choppy for any where between .5 and 2 seconds, then continues to play with no problems.

I have also had WMP9 crash around the same time that the slow down occurs. No one else has chimed in to say they are having crashes so that is probably just me.

Just thought I would let everyone know.

--David